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emanresu tnuocca posted:~snip~ Posting corpse videos to win a gun argument online Somebody fucked around with this message at 14:22 on Oct 9, 2023 |
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Oct 9, 2023 05:38
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I edited it out, you can too. e; honestly I've been watching carnage video after carnage video for like 36 hours straight the video didn't even tick any  boxes for me.
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Oct 9, 2023 05:42
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You should probably stop
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Oct 9, 2023 05:48
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emanresu tnuocca posted:It's like Zizek said, the IDF and Hamas are the two most moral armed forces in the world, perhaps in a hundred years or so when the dust settles more people will realize this. Hitchens was dead right on this one for 30+ years too and put it more eloquently than anyone else while he was alive.
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Oct 9, 2023 05:50
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Oglethorpe posted:variants do not an ak-47 make the AK-74, as well as many variants, are also a Soviet design and plenty of manufacture, so I don't really get what you're saying here. Doesn't seem worth it to get mad at non-gun-enthusiast reporters for saying "AK-47" when they really mean "AK pattern rifle"
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Oct 9, 2023 05:50
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emanresu tnuocca posted:I edited it out, you can too. watching carnage videos nonstop and reading questionable media outlets is a guaranteed bad time I acknowledge war is hell and an oppressed people will always, always, eventually need an outlet even if it's bloody as hell. But the context of the article you gave is straight out of a misinformation playbook.
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Oct 9, 2023 05:50
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Oglethorpe posted:watching carnage videos nonstop and reading questionable media outlets is a guaranteed bad time I didn't post any article, I just showed the use of AK variants in response to your post that claimed AR style variants, not sure sure who's posting questionable info here and why it's exactly me.
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Oct 9, 2023 05:53
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The AK 47 is by far the most abundant gun in the world. They've been made in Russia/USSR, China, Yugoslavia, Czechia, Egypt, Germany and USA for decades. I wouldn't interpret its use to mean Hamas was supported by one particular nation unless they had a bunch of brand new ones and could identify the specific manufacturer. Probably too early to know that at this point. There's an interesting book about how this one particular weapon has shaped global conflicts for 70 years. https://www.amazon.com/AK-47-Weapon-that-Changed-Face/dp/0470168803 deoju fucked around with this message at 06:05 on Oct 9, 2023 |
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Oct 9, 2023 06:02
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Was there any statement made on behalf of Hamas yet? Anything leaked out that a journalist picked up? I have to wonder if they're proud of themselves. Are they happy now? Happy that their cause is doomed? Because I am not. There is no more "Free Palestine" after this. The fence sitting cowards of the world aren't even gonna pretend it's some complicated bullshit anymore. It's Israel good, Palestine bad, kill the barbarians. The end.
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Oct 9, 2023 06:05
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I've played one too many Paradox Games, because I saw this article and said "Welp, that's Israel's Casus Belli for starting a war with Iran right there" https://twitter.com/ksadjadpour/status/1711131438924312949
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Oct 9, 2023 06:07
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emSparkly posted:Was there any statement made on behalf of Hamas yet? Anything leaked out that a journalist picked up? I have to wonder if they're proud of themselves. Are they happy now? Happy that their cause is doomed? Because I am not. There is no more "Free Palestine" after this. The fence sitting cowards of the world aren't even gonna pretend it's some complicated bullshit anymore. It's Israel good, Palestine bad, kill the barbarians. The end. All statements I have seen so far are clear they see it as an overwhelming victory. I don't think they care much about western opinion at this point.
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Oct 9, 2023 06:07
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AFancyQuestionMark posted:All statements I have seen so far are clear they see it as an overwhelming victory. I don't think they care much about western opinion at this point. Welp, cool. I hope they think it was worth it when they all hang for this and everything stays the same or gets worse. What a waste.
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Oct 9, 2023 06:16
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emSparkly posted:Was there any statement made on behalf of Hamas yet? Anything leaked out that a journalist picked up? I have to wonder if they're proud of themselves. Are they happy now? Happy that their cause is doomed? Because I am not. There is no more "Free Palestine" after this. The fence sitting cowards of the world aren't even gonna pretend it's some complicated bullshit anymore. It's Israel good, Palestine bad, kill the barbarians. The end. It was already like that before this. I'm glad you don't think Palestinians are barbarians though.
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Oct 9, 2023 06:17
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This is a great interview that I'm surprised CNN let go for as long as it did: https://twitter.com/davidrkadler/status/1711103806002377167?t=Uxn7WsozIkh47-tjjjRceg&s=19
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Oct 9, 2023 06:19
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SirFozzie posted:I've played one too many Paradox Games, because I saw this article and said "Welp, that's Israel's Casus Belli for starting a war with Iran right there" They would lose.
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Oct 9, 2023 06:35
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emanresu tnuocca posted:
the COD term for this would probably be *Team Wipe* yikes (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 9, 2023 06:41
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I think people are being way too bearish on Hamas's chances in an invasion. You don't have to "win" as in totally defeat the enemy, you just have to make continuing to be there have a higher cost than they can bear. I don't think that's outside their capabilities at all. The Israeli public and political establishment are furious now, but what about six months-year into an incredibly bloody and grinding ground war? With an unpopular government and significant domestic turmoil? We're more than a year into an object lesson on how current generation of military technology gives a smaller defender tons of tools against a way larger and more resourced opponent. No, Hamas won't have the pentagon giving them supplies, but they can certainly get stuff like the commercially available drones that been blowing up APCs in Ukraine. Plus the degree of coordination this attack took, and the fact that it took the Israeli security forces totally by surprise? What if the problems in their intelligence apparatus are systemic? I don't think it's guaranteed, or even the most likely outcome, just that it's not some totally impossible scenario. Also, of course "Hamas" ≠ average Gazans who will suffer enormously regardless of what happens Fill Baptismal fucked around with this message at 06:47 on Oct 9, 2023 |
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Oct 9, 2023 06:42
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So is there somewhere I can read any reasonably informed commentary on the degree of Iran involvement in this, and/or a rundown of what kind of operations Israel has done in Iran?
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Oct 9, 2023 06:43
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There's a thing to be understood about the Kibbutzim next to Gaza, they were placed there in order to be border outposts, they were meant to serve the 'Wall and Watchtower' doctrine, Nahal Oz is specifically historically the site of multiple historical skirmishes, it would seem like Israel just sort of forgot about that. I think pretty much all of the relevant context can be found in this single wikipedia article, Moshe Dayan's Eulogy to Roi Rotberg from 1956: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_and_eulogy_of_Roi_Rotberg So yeah, if Nahal Oz is depopulated from civilians, if they refuse to come back, in the war of ideas and symbols this is a victory, I said earlier itt that the lines in the sand have already been re-drawn, I wouldn't be surprised if the population of Sderot will drop by over 50% in a matter of months. emanresu tnuocca fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Oct 9, 2023 |
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Oct 9, 2023 06:50
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Google Jeb Bush posted:feel like maybe this isn't the hill you want to plant your flag on in an environment where Hamas is either A) okaying atrocities or B) incapable of keeping their paramilitary grunts in line, even aside from troubling anecdotal clips i would really prefer not to personally evaluate My problem isn't with this thread. It's the media. I just watched some Israeli official talking about how they are going to have to kill civilians to get rid of Hamas. Just casual war crimes talk and it's not even challenged.
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Oct 9, 2023 06:53
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Senor Tron posted:This is a great interview that I'm surprised CNN let go for as long as it did: https://twitter.com/davidrkadler/status/1711103806002377167?t=Uxn7WsozIkh47-tjjjRceg&s=19 A lot of western media has been warming up to Palestinian cause prior to this, especially since Bibi has been trying to go full dictator. Combine that with Fareed Zakaria being a rather intelligent person in regards to political events happening in the world, we get to see some truths being laid out in front of the US masses. I do not know how much good it will do though, with the narrative of Hamas mowing down civilians and taking woman and children back as hostages. That is going to hit hard for western audiences. If it was part of the plan for Hamas, they would have to expect Israel to come into Gaza, so Hamas must believe they are ready for that fight.
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Oct 9, 2023 06:58
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Senor Tron posted:This is a great interview that I'm surprised CNN let go for as long as it did: https://twitter.com/davidrkadler/status/1711103806002377167?t=Uxn7WsozIkh47-tjjjRceg&s=19 righteous takedown
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Oct 9, 2023 07:05
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Fill Baptismal posted:I think people are being way too bearish on Hamas's chances in an invasion. You don't have to "win" as in totally defeat the enemy, you just have to make continuing to be there have a higher cost than they can bear. I don't think that's outside their capabilities at all. The Israeli public and political establishment are furious now, but what about six months-year into an incredibly bloody and grinding ground war? With an unpopular government and significant domestic turmoil? Pigs flying is possible. So is a baby counting every grain of sand on Earth in one second, as is you falling through your chair into the center of the earth. That doesn't mean it would ever happen, even with a billion year time horizon. Where, for example, would Hamas get enough food to feed 40,000 deployed fighters as well as its civilian population for a year--and consider how easy it is to blockade Gaza particularly for something as voluminous as food. How about bullets? Artillery shells? Medical supplies? And while I'm sure a drone could kill it, a Merkerva isn't some Soviet era death trap. Israel also has a functional air force and can do combined arms, something the Russians can't even sniff. There is also no more surprises here; that advantage is spent. Fighting a pitched battle with such an opponent is insane. Rather, they will use Gaza's city as a fortress, and attempt to neutralize their opponent's armor, artillery and air power advantage. The US is already redeploying ground based fighter aircraft and a carrier group to signal everyone else to stay the out of it, so an assist invasion seems very unlikely. Yudo fucked around with this message at 07:08 on Oct 9, 2023 |
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Oct 9, 2023 07:06
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Via Al-Jazeera, here's some voices on the ground from Gaza civilians. Emphasis mine, as usual.quote:No place for Gaza residents to flee after Israel declares war, bombs homes Obviously, it's not exactly a comprehensive survey of Gazan opinions, but it's still something I want to point out. The civilian population of Gaza isn't out there saying "both sides are bad". Whether they have any particular love for Hamas, they ultimately blame the destruction of Gaza on the army that's actually shooting Palestinian protesters and bombing Palestinian residential neighborhoods. As far as they're concerned, Israel actively targets civilians, and they don't believe the constant Israeli claims that the attacks are aimed solely at militants. And despite the overwhelming lopsidedness of the conflict and the inevitability of massive Israeli responses to any Hamas action, there's civilians who see Hamas as "resistance fighters" who are exercising "the right to resist our occupier". I'm sure the positions quoted here aren't the only ones held by Gazan civilians, but there aren't a lot of on-the-ground reporters out there interviewing people in the middle of Gaza right now, Al-Jazeera's all I can find at the moment.
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Oct 9, 2023 07:10
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Charlz Guybon posted:Give me an example of country with rule of law and broad civil rights that is not more economically prosperous than it was before it had those things. don't take it from me, take it from post-Arab-Spring public surveys in post-Ben-Ali Tunisia, the most successful Spring transition to democracy note that this does not necessarily imply a desire to return to pre-Spring repression (people care about things other than economic growth), but rather than economic problems have not gone away as quickly as previously hoped-for (see also: swathes of post-Soviet Eastern Europe for about a decade), which dampens enthusiasm for transformative middle-class-led colour revolution subsequently revolution is costly and what lies beyond the salto mortale has to look pretty good, not just ambivalently better Delthalaz posted:There are some interesting counterfactuals to consider, like if Israel had aligned more with the Soviet Union early on, or if the US kept its distance after the Suez Crisis Spoilers for self-indulgent sketching only slightly related to I/P: I/P is not the only case where the British allowed a dramatic demographic shift through immigration: in the early 20th century British Malaya tipped from overwhelmingly majority Malay to majority Chinese, to the extent that the Japanese wartime administration seriously studied whether to recognize it as a Chinese territory under the the Nanking puppet state. Similar to Palestine, Malay nationalists foresaw the problem early in the 20th century, and duly pressured the British to legislate immigration changes, but between ineffectual enforcement, refugee movements, and general wartime chaos, the slowdown in immigration was not sufficient to halt the transition from a predominantly male transient minority population to a majority settled population. Although the Chinese civil war had not ended in China proper, in Malaya the communist anti-Japanese militias had defeated the nationalist anti-Japanese militias during the war, resulting in an effectively communist-dominated Chinese majority. Serious interethnic violence erupted even earlier than the 1947 civil war in Palestine: during the brief interregnum between Japanese withdrawal and return of British administration, Chinese communists had effective control over Malaya and launched bloody reprisal killings for Japanese collaboration during the war. A comparison, I suppose, is if during WW2 Jewish paramilitary resistance to Mandatory Palestine is won by communist-aligned Zionist militias rather than Revisionist militias, to the extent that the exhausted postwar British are prepared to remobilize again to assert order in British Palestine after the war, which would subsequently play into Soviet perceptions of the British as the continuing primary rival for Russian prestige in the Middle East, rather than the incoming Americans. The fact that Malayan rubber exports to the dollar area were so critical for postwar austerity Britain in the critical 1945-1949 years surely plays a role in this, too, by limiting the degree to which Labour-led Britain could afford disengagement. Eventually:  (1965) Kita tidak mahu Singapura menjadi Palastine: we reject Singapore becoming Palestine. In the event, within a week, Malaysia would peacefully expel Singapore, effectively accepting that Singapore Malays would be governed by a Chinese-dominated city-state. The next month, Guided Democracy in Indonesia bloodily collapsed and within a year Indonesia called off the Confrontation and abandoned its claims to Greater Indonesia. ronya fucked around with this message at 07:23 on Oct 9, 2023 |
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Oct 9, 2023 07:12
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emSparkly posted:Was there any statement made on behalf of Hamas yet? Anything leaked out that a journalist picked up? I have to wonder if they're proud of themselves. Are they happy now? Happy that their cause is doomed? Because I am not. There is no more "Free Palestine" after this. The fence sitting cowards of the world aren't even gonna pretend it's some complicated bullshit anymore. It's Israel good, Palestine bad, kill the barbarians. The end. If you're willing to ethnically cleanse Palestine after this event, imagine decades of snipers killing and maiming random civilians for laughs with their friends, blockades to "put Gaza on a diet" by allowing in fewer than the necessary calories per person, bombings of homes so frequent a majority of children have PTSD, detention of children, use of children as human shields during searches of homes by the IDF, use of white phosphorus, spying on telecom and then blackmailing known gay Palestinians into working as spies, tearing out olive trees and killing livestock under the supervision of the IDF, pouring concrete into wells... the list could keep going on.
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Oct 9, 2023 07:23
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SirFozzie posted:I've played one too many Paradox Games, because I saw this article and said "Welp, that's Israel's Casus Belli for starting a war with Iran right there" U.S. position is so far there is no evidence of Iranian involvement. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/08/israel-gaza-strikes-hamas-netanyahu/#link-MY3WT6EK5ZBCFHCWVDZ5VLBESQ
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Oct 9, 2023 07:27
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emanresu tnuocca posted:I edited it out, you can too. please do not watch carnage video after carnage video. you do not need to rot your brain with so much. you will not be better informed by seeing people dying.
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Oct 9, 2023 07:29
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https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/1711151627103555663?s=20 Beheading POWs is bad.
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Oct 9, 2023 07:29
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beer_war posted:https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/1711151627103555663?s=20 Bullshit. They want every living prisoner they can get for the future swaps. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 9, 2023 07:32
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paul_soccer12 posted:Bullshit. They want every living prisoner they can get for the future swaps. Proven by the 260 bodies of unarmed folks at the peace festival.
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Oct 9, 2023 07:37
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If something actually happened, it will reported on by real journalists. Blue check "OSINT" accounts claiming that they saw the baby and the baby looked at them are loving useless.
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Oct 9, 2023 07:39
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studio mujahideen posted:If something actually happened, it will reported on by real journalists. Blue check "OSINT" accounts claiming that they saw the baby and the baby looked at them are loving useless. Accurate, though most real journalists are also useless. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 9, 2023 07:42
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Viller posted:Proven by the 260 bodies of unarmed folks at the peace festival. Not exactly the same thing as beheading soldiers you've already taken prisoner. A soldier you can trade for hundreds of Palestinian prisoners
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Oct 9, 2023 07:43
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I am extremely confident in the future liberation of Palestine simply because the goal is to make settling and colonizing untenable, not to win a ground war. If the people in this thread were watching violence in Apartheid South Africa they would share a very similar sentiment. Thankfully history is not dictated by the appetite of liberals. Liberals engage in the compartmentalized thinking that results in believing that the life of one Palestinian is the same as one Israeli while simultaneously believing violence committed by Palenstinians is more morally evil than that of the Israeli Apartheid state. However, that Apartheid state skips such compartmentalization: https://www.cnn.com/2011/10/17/world/meast/israel-prisoner-swap-explainer/index.html They believe the life of an Israeli is far more valuable than the life of the humans they occupy and oppress. This is a dimension that must be ignored and erased by liberals in order to flatten and equalize the conflict. Prisoners are extremely valuable, their lives are worth far more than Palestinians after all. miniscule12 fucked around with this message at 07:53 on Oct 9, 2023 |
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Oct 9, 2023 07:48
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I think the one thing we can all agree on is that the first test of new twitter in a major global event proves it has been completely destroyed as a source of semi-reliable info. It was always a dumpster fire but the counter-disinformation efforts tended to limit the noise. The last few days have been an absolute tidal wave of bullshit made up by clout chasers.
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Oct 9, 2023 07:50
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If they are actually beheading IDF soldiers, then either Hamas leadership has lost control or they plan on all going out as martyrs.
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Oct 9, 2023 07:52
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Alchenar posted:I think the one thing we can all agree on is that the first test of new twitter in a major global event proves it has been completely destroyed as a source of semi-reliable info. It was always a dumpster fire but the counter-disinformation efforts tended to limit the noise. The last few days have been an absolute tidal wave of bullshit made up by clout chasers. The beginning of the Ukraine invasion was even more impenetrable imo Even during the Syrian civil war it was completely flooded with deceptive propaganda from day 1
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Oct 9, 2023 07:55
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Fill Baptismal posted:I think people are being way too bearish on Hamas's chances in an invasion. You don't have to "win" as in totally defeat the enemy, you just have to make continuing to be there have a higher cost than they can bear. I don't think that's outside their capabilities at all. The Israeli public and political establishment are furious now, but what about six months-year into an incredibly bloody and grinding ground war? With an unpopular government and significant domestic turmoil? I disagree pretty strongly. Israel doesn't have to be "in" Gaza in any continuous way six months-a year from now. They can just continue to make living in Gaza incredibly terrible. Gaza is 17 square miles. It's less than half the size of Disney World. It's not a big thing to go in to and blow things up. There's not much to grind. Hamas is going to have to retreat back into being an insurgency as early as tomorrow. They're going to be at a 50:1 manpower disadvantage very, very soon. And a technological disadvantage. And several others. They aren't winning a pitched fight. They aren't coming anywhere close to that. This is not analogous to Ukraine. It's possible that the Israeli intelligence operations are not as good as advertised and Hamas may be able to land some more quick hits at points down the line. But this isn't going to be a thing where Hamas is ever holding any sort of line; they'll have to go back into hiding.
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Oct 9, 2023 08:03
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paul_soccer12 posted:The beginning of the Ukraine invasion was even more impenetrable imo Eh, there was a lot of fog of war but if you filtered out the obvious Kremlin shrills crowing about how the Ukrainian army had evaporated or that Kyiv was encircled or that the Donbass was encircled (I know not everyone managed to do that) then there was actually a pretty clear consensus on what we could know was happening. E: anyway, consequences: (I suspect this is media upreading a quote and it won't happen, but is demonstrates how far the needle has moved in Europe): https://twitter.com/derJamesJackson/status/1711026132156318120?t=XQDyiGZgWnqljLTxKv7cSA&s=19 Alchenar fucked around with this message at 08:20 on Oct 9, 2023 |
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Oct 9, 2023 08:13
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