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mannerup fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Nov 5, 2023 |
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Oct 11, 2023 22:16
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He's perfectly fine with murdering children as long as it's done from the air or by artillery barrage or murderous sanctions.
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Oct 11, 2023 22:18
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Nenonen posted:They ended the holocaust because Germany invaded them or declared war on them. Not because they wanted to go to war against Germany to protect ethnic or sexual minorities or political opposition there. In contrast, nothing happened as long as Hitler kept the atrocities within German borders. Plenty of countries remained neutral through all of it or were even allied with Germany. I just don't think that your argument works. From what I gather, what with not being alive, the sentiment in America at the time was outrage that we weren't getting involved. As dorky as it is, there's something so "gently caress you" about the cover of Captain America #1 being the main character punching hitler in the face in march 1941, a year before we'd actually goto war. That cover is an iconic part of US history and I love it. 
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Oct 11, 2023 22:22
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Adenoid Dan posted:He's perfectly fine with murdering children as long as it's done from the air or by artillery barrage or murderous sanctions. It really is hosed. You'd think quantity would metter, but a million deaths a statistic. There are almost certainly more dead palastinian children this week than Israeli, but the visceral argument of 'they cut off their heads' will overwhelm any talk of Palestinians bearing the brunt of this. The child doesn't care that it was mutilated by falling concrete as the building collapsed by a bayonet, but the public sure does. 72 Israelis killed vs 200 palestinian dead, and all that.
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Oct 11, 2023 22:24
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mannerup posted:Biden is now categorically stating that he seen confirmed pictures of terrorists beheading children during his remarks at the Roundtable with Jewish Community Leaders: “It matters that Americans see what's happening. I mean, I've been doing this a long time. I never really thought that I would see - have confirmed pictures of terrorists beheading children.” Sounds like he corrected himself from saying "I never thought I would see-", and switches it up to "have confirmed pictures of terrorists..." In my opinion, doesn't sound like he actually saw any pictures of this.
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Oct 11, 2023 22:25
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Caros posted:It really is hosed. You'd think quantity would metter, but a million deaths a statistic. There are almost certainly more dead palastinian children this week than Israeli, but the visceral argument of 'they cut off their heads' will overwhelm any talk of Palestinians bearing the brunt of this. If he cared about dead children at all he wouldn't be bragging about how the US unequivocally supports the genocide taking place. Our government is so full of poo poo. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 11, 2023 22:27
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zer0spunk posted:From what I gather, what with not being alive, the sentiment in America at the time was outrage that we weren't getting involved.
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Oct 11, 2023 22:27
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zer0spunk posted:From what I gather, what with not being alive, the sentiment in America at the time was outrage that we weren't getting involved. No, it wasn't that cut and dry. There are a significant number of Americans who were either neutral to supportive of Germany, especially as the full extent of the crimes was considered hearsay or exaggeration (and antisemitism wasn't exactly unheard of in the 1930-40s America.) Even among those who opposed Germany openly there was still a loud anti-war voice, ranging from "No foreign intervention" to "We don't want to start another World War" and so-on.
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Oct 11, 2023 22:28
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https://twitter.com/haaretzcom/status/1712135976175198481 (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 11, 2023 22:28
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ImpAtom posted:No, it wasn't that cut and dry. There are a significant number of Americans who were either neutral to supportive of Germany, especially as the full extent of the crimes was considered hearsay or exaggeration (and antisemitism wasn't exactly unheard of in the 1930-40s America.) Even among those who opposed Germany openly there was still a loud anti-war voice, ranging from "No foreign intervention" to "We don't want to start another World War" and so-on. I'm one of those people that likes to think that even without pearl habor america would have joined the war effort. I don't know if that makes me naive or an optimist
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Oct 11, 2023 22:32
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Main Paineframe posted:There's been a fair few cases where two hostile groups were partitioned into a "two-state solution", reached a mutual peace or ceasefire, and just stayed that way even without a final solution working out their issues and disagreements once and for all. Even though neither side really officially acknowledged the other's borders or right to exist, they weren't willing to go back to war about it again. Those kinds of states generally don't have very good relations with each other, sure, but they've largely avoided full-scale war - even when the military balance between the two states vastly shifts. Once some kind of peaceful balance has been established and maintained for a while, it's pretty hard for them to go back to all those years of bloody war (especially if the international community is exerting pressure to keep it that way). I was also thinking about the example of Koreas, but I guess it's a question of perspective and semantics. Both countries sort of just pretend they are the only Korea, and there was never any 'second state' in principle. The same goes for China and Taiwan to some extent, as far as I understand. With Israel and Palestine there are two (if not three) de facto states with no common political ancestry, so to speak, so I'm not sure it could work quite the same way. In any case, whatever term is used for what Hamas have in their goals, I agree that it's something that should have at least been attempted, even if it's not perfect.
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Oct 11, 2023 22:34
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zer0spunk posted:I'm one of those people that likes to think that even without pearl habor america would have joined the war effort. I don't know if that makes me naive or an optimist It certainly explains your posts about this conflict.
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Oct 11, 2023 22:35
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zer0spunk posted:I'm one of those people that likes to think that even without pearl habor america would have joined the war effort. I don't know if that makes me naive or an optimist
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Oct 11, 2023 22:35
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zer0spunk posted:I'm one of those people that likes to think that even without pearl habor america would have joined the war effort. I don't know if that makes me naive or an optimist Maybe the political leadership would have but in 39 and 40, the only polling I can find suggests the US public's appetite for joining the war directly was quite low, with 84-88% of people against sending troops/declaring war. https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/great-debate https://news.gallup.com/vault/265865/gallup-vault-opinion-start-world-war.aspx
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Oct 11, 2023 22:38
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studio mujahideen posted:With no power, it is zero. What are you talking about? And before you say, "Gaza produces its own power!" In that case my knowledge of the power situation was either confused or out of date. I guess it might be down to existing freshwater reserves then. which I can't imagine being especially vast Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Oct 11, 2023 |
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Oct 11, 2023 22:49
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quote:Hamas official in Lebanon claims militant group prepared for attack for 2 years https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-10-11-23/h_4950c460aa0642ca8484bbd190db1f89 Well I mean, not exactly shocking that the first guesses on who backed this were the correct guesses
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Oct 11, 2023 22:50
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zer0spunk posted:I'm one of those people that likes to think that even without pearl habor america would have joined the war effort. I don't know if that makes me naive or an optimist Or did you mean "America would have joined the war effort even if it wasn't attacked directly, to protect the British empire \ Chinese"? ... Where is everyone donating? I sent funds to Magen David Adom and MAP, and have been spamming this link both personally and professionally: https://time.com/6322238/how-to-help-israel-gaza-war-victims/
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Oct 11, 2023 22:54
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Xander77 posted:I mean... without that particular attack, Japan would still have attempted to conquer other American-controlled territories at the same time (which people mostly seem to forget about, particularly when peddling conspiracy theories?) As someone else pointed out, and I embarrassingly forgot from my US history education..the Lend-Lease Act was already in effect, so they were in it. They were supplying the allied forces and would have joined the fray from there, domestic attack or not. I don't need to speculate, I'm just rusty on my ww2 history
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Oct 11, 2023 23:02
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zer0spunk posted:I'm one of those people that likes to think that even without pearl habor america would have joined the war effort. I don't know if that makes me naive or an optimist Certainly on my PoliSci and Strategic Studies degrees, it was pretty broadly accepted that the US was going to get involved directly at some point; FDR had believed you guys had to get into it for some years and had been working strenuously to bring the public around to the point where it was possible before Japan solved it for him. But he'd made serious progress, the American population had gone from something like 5% strong support for intervention to over 25% by Pearl Harbor. Of course, despite ostensible neutrality, America wasn't exactly shy about giving the Allies literal boatloads of aid and materiel.
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Oct 11, 2023 23:29
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There is so much hubris in here that Netanyahu outdoes the most extreme Greek mythic figures. quote:This is solidly documented. Between 2012 and 2018, Netanyahu gave Qatar approval to transfer a cumulative sum of about a billion dollars to Gaza, at least half of which reached Hamas, including its military wing. According to the Jerusalem Post, in a private meeting with members of his Likud party on March 11, 2019, Netanyahu explained the reckless step as follows: The money transfer is part of the strategy to divide the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank. Anyone who opposes the establishment of a Palestinian state needs to support the transfer of the money from Qatar to Hamas. In that way, we will foil the establishment of a Palestinian state (as reported in former cabinet member Haim Ramon’s Hebrew-language book “Neged Haruach”, p. 417). https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...v=1696916329934 quote:How depressing and upsetting it is today to recall Benjamin Netanyahu’s arrogance under interrogation about Case 2000, one of the three corruption cases against the prime minister. “This is classified, don’t let it leak, okay?” he said, flattering the police investigators with the magic lure of security secrets. And then he explained his doctrine regarding Hamas and Hezbollah.
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Oct 11, 2023 23:36
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Some on the ground reporting from Palestine: https://twitter.com/MacaesBruno/status/1712180249147093050 There's no gore, but plenty of evidence of the indiscriminate violence Israel is unleashing against unarmed civilians, including young children.
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Oct 11, 2023 23:41
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golden bubble posted:There is so much hubris in here that Netanyahu outdoes the most extreme Greek mythic figures. Is it? His intention was supporting his enemy until he got approval to commit genocide in the name of destroying Hamas and here we are. I don't think you can call it hubris if the plan has been working. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 11, 2023 23:41
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This one was an interesting read that sort of mirrors some of the arguments in this thread on wording; https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-67076341 quote:BBC defends policy not to call Hamas 'terrorists' after criticism e: quote:Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel did not mince words at a news conference with Yoav Gallant, Israel’s defense minister and Benny Gantz, a political rival who joined in a national unity government today. “Every Hamas member is a dead man,” Netanyahu said, as he promised to “crush and eliminate” the group. He also listed some of the atrocities he said Hamas terrorists had committed. Boys and girls had been found shot in the head, he said. People had been burned alive, women had been raped and killed, and soldiers had been beheaded. "mincing words" is an understatement zer0spunk fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Oct 11, 2023 |
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Oct 11, 2023 23:42
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mannerup fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Nov 5, 2023 |
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Oct 11, 2023 23:51
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foutre posted:I set up donations to middle east children's alliance, palestine children's relief fund, and UNRWA. If other people have reccs please share! Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Red Crescent, Middle East Children’s Alliance, Palestine Children’s Relief Fund, and UNICEF all have the best ratings on charity navigator and aren't affiliated with Hamas, so you can support them financially with no issue if you live in the E.U., U.S., Australia, or Canada.
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Oct 11, 2023 23:54
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mannerup posted:I recall them using 'militant' to describe members of ISIS before in reporting, so its a consistent stance. Lots of news outlets do this, in Britain and elsewhere. I mean, write a list of who you think is a terrorist and who isn't as a way to start an argument. The word doesn't add any meaning to a sentence.
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Oct 11, 2023 23:55
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quote:The outrage at the current Israeli government over the Hamas attacks was obvious when Idit Silman, Israel’s minister for environmental protection, paid a visit to a hospital on Wednesday. “You guys are responsible,” one person screamed at Silman, according to a video posted on social media. “Go home. You are preventing this nation from finding a way to go forward.” Another chimed in: “You guys ruined this country. Get out of here!” If the byproduct of this means a possible change in the administration when all is said and done, there might actually be real progress achieved instead of drips and drabs with 2 new theoretical representative states who are more geared towards peace...ideally on the gaza side something better then fatah with secular interests in rebuilding first and foremost e: that's the best case scenario, gaza replaces an extremist government and so does israel, with the understanding that the stability in the region helps all the states regardless of what religious ideology you hold zer0spunk fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Oct 12, 2023 |
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Oct 12, 2023 00:01
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Xander77 posted:Where is everyone donating? I sent funds to Magen David Adom For anyone considering where to donate, Magen David Adom appears to be solely concerned with Israel and does nothing for Palestinians in Gaza (I could be wrong). The only references to Gaza I've found on their website are to refer to terrorists in Gaza firing rockets at Israel Also this is on their about us page https://www.cmdai.org/en/content/6-about-us quote:The State of Israel itself cannot survive without Magen David Adom! They're affiliated with red cross/red crescent but appear to be a thoroughly pro-Zionist organization. Happy to be corrected if any of this is inaccurate.
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Oct 12, 2023 00:05
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Ghetto SuperCzar posted:America has a lot of leverage over Israel due to how much aid and business we give them. The relation between Israel and America is like a weird corruption ouroboros, that leverage kinda goes both ways. America sends stuff Israel's way yes but some of it winds up back in western politicans' pockets via fat campaign contributions and other general lobbying.
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Oct 12, 2023 00:15
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paul_soccer12 posted:For anyone considering where to donate, Magen David Adom appears to be solely concerned with Israel and does nothing for Palestinians in Gaza (I could be wrong). The only references to Gaza I've found on their website are to refer to terrorists in Gaza firing rockets at Israel "Affiliated with" is an understatement, they are the Red Cross as it exists in Israel (Magen David Adom literally translates to Red Star of David). Of course their rhetoric is Zionist because they're a normal Israeli organization but if you donate to them you're donating to the Red Cross which is good.
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Oct 12, 2023 00:15
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Civilized Fishbot posted:"Affiliated with" is an understatement, they are the Red Cross as it exists in Israel (Magen David Adom literally translates to Red Star of David). My point is you probably want to donate to a different org if you're hoping your donation goes to help anyone in Gaza.
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Oct 12, 2023 00:26
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Hospitals are running out of beds and medicine, and will soon be without power in Gaza: https://twitter.com/MiraHammad10/status/1712153909177766380 zer0spunk posted:https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/10/11/world/israel-news-hamas-war/4c02cbf5-4337-5cb5-b984-eabd24b907b0?smid=url-share Found some video of this: https://twitter.com/Meir_Marciano/status/1712115635994472923 B B fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Oct 12, 2023 |
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Oct 12, 2023 00:29
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mannerup posted:Biden is now categorically stating that he seen confirmed pictures of terrorists beheading children during his remarks at the Roundtable with Jewish Community Leaders: “It matters that Americans see what's happening. I mean, I've been doing this a long time. I never really thought that I would see - have confirmed pictures of terrorists beheading children.” Axios political reporter is saying this in regards to Biden's claim. https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1712256675569148100?t=2Q48_-idE5nybM5GrlKeUg&s=19
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Oct 12, 2023 01:20
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mannerup fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Nov 5, 2023 |
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Oct 12, 2023 01:27
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mannerup posted:someone from the White House should state that on the record them, preferably the Press Secretary. you can’t have the President of the United States make a claim like that and shove the correction to the context on background to an Axios reporter. it’s ridiculous countdown to the same people who say Biden's weakness enabled this attack pivoting to "Biden lied about Hamas atrocities" Also shades of the first Iraq War when Iraqi forces were supposedly knocking premature babies out of incubators. There were plenty of actual reasons Saddam was a monster but it had to be embellished. Hamas has committed enough verified atrocities that there shouldn't be a need to embellish them.
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Oct 12, 2023 01:45
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Does the baby heads thing even matter? Individuals intentionally murdering babies right in front of them is some serial killer level stuff, I don't see how specific details do much to change that.
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Oct 12, 2023 01:47
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mannerup posted:someone from the White House should state that on the record them, preferably the Press Secretary. you can’t have the President of the United States make a claim like that and shove the correction to the context on background to an Axios reporter. it’s ridiculous Apparently a White House spokesperson has communicated this to the Washington Post as well. The IDF also declined to confirm the story. https://twitter.com/evanhill/status/1712260928635322502 NovemberMike posted:Does the baby heads thing even matter? Individuals intentionally murdering babies right in front of them is some serial killer level stuff, I don't see how specific details do much to change that. This seems like the correct take to me. Close to 300 children are dead in Gaza, as well. I don't think whether a child's head was removed by a hunting knife or a laser-guided missile really matters in the grand scheme of things. Both are absolutely brutal acts that deserve condemnation.
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Oct 12, 2023 01:54
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mannerup fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Nov 5, 2023 |
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Oct 12, 2023 01:56
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NovemberMike posted:Does the baby heads thing even matter? Individuals intentionally murdering babies right in front of them is some serial killer level stuff, I don't see how specific details do much to change that. No and admittedly I'm not following X for every gruesome video and I wouldn't put it past Hamas to kill babies. Is this verified?
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Oct 12, 2023 02:00
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Judgy Fucker posted:Even if Hamas laid down arms and forsook violence as a political tool the apartheid and genocide would continue. Why do people say this? They have never once taken such a stance or asked for peaceful integration. They just repeatedly say they want to kill all Jews. Ever since the foundation of Israel, which was an act of Britain. You act like every person that is bullied is an innocent victim, but Hamas is just as lovely or even shittier than Israel, and if the tables were turned Hamas themselves have said they would exterminate the Jewish state. FFS at least frame this war factually. Both Hamas and Israel are devoted to the complete destruction of the other and both of them do terrible things. Neither one is a victim they are both horrible lovely assholes vying for survival. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 12, 2023 02:03
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