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Hosmer had been dumped twice in three months and the Cubs thought they could fix him. They got what they had coming to them.
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Oct 11, 2023 22:35
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Anyway sorry about yet another Hoz derail, I promise I'll shut up about it now even if Popete responds. Instead I'll do everybody's other favorite Cubs posting gimmick, and complain about David Ross since he only got lightly touched on in Bregor's writeup: Ross has been the Cubs manager for three seasons now, okay technically four but the 2020 season was bullshit and I'm not going to really judge anything that happened there because. By this point I think it is fair to say that he has a fairly nailed down style, quirks, and clear gaps in his capabilities. A lot of it really bubbled to the surface this year: 1. Ross is very clearly somebody who has "his guys" that he trusts, and if you are not in that circle then you get to eat poo poo. It is possible to audition to get into the circle, but only in the lowest of low leverage spots and if none of those come up for a while then, well, I hope you enjoy the bench. 2. Ross is just not good at pen management, which is really funny for a former catcher. 3. My guy, you need to be more flexible about the batting order, this is ridiculous. To the first point, there are a lot of guys who just weren't given any kind of opportunity to succeed this year, even when it seemingly would have been in Ross's interests to try and let them. There was clearly no room in the OF for Nelly V, but he could have DH'd particularly against lefties. Instead after he hit a huge grand slam early in the season he got banished to the bench so Mancini and Hosmer could juggle the DH instead. I'm not even sure why Rios or Torrens broke camp with the Cubs because it was clear David did not want them on the roster and had no intent to use them. Tauchmania meant that Canario and PCA got barely any runway even after Tauchman had come crashing back down to earth. Little got called up to augment an insanely beat up pen, but Ross just absolutely refused to use him and the result was just 6 IP in a month, over half of which came on some of the last games in the season after the pen had blown countless games due to fatigue and ineffectiveness while Little rode the pine. That last one is particularly egregious, I do not understand why Cuas and Merryweather had their arms ground to dust while Little went weeks without a single appearance. This circle of trust crap needs to be done yesterday and if Theo hands Ross a guy to play, that guy needs to play. Second point: I've already covered the Little stuff, but just in general Ross also really seems to struggle with how to handle any situation besides "Starter for 6 -> Setup guy 1 -> Setup guy 2 -> Closer" gracefully. He constantly burned long relievers for single inning appearances, stubbornly leaned on Leiter to face lefties long after it was clear his reverse splits had vanished, and loved to try and be cute by leaving guys out for a second inning, only to immediately yank them once they let a runner on and force another reliever into a pointless dirty inning. Now you might say a lot of this was the result of the pen getting stupidly injured down the stretch, and I'd counter that the reason the pen got injured was because Ross didn't use his long relievers effectively and heavily leaned on the same ~four guys to the point it's not really much of a surprise three of them got injured. Ross needs to be willing to use all his weapons instead of just the shiniest over and over. Final point: Why is Tauchman batting in front of Nico? Why is Nico batting second when he's our most prolific base stealer and the leadoff man getting on means he's less able to run? Why is Happ batting third, just... why is Happ batting third? Why is Swanson still batting 2-4 a month and a half into a brutal slump? Why is Suzuki hitting fifth a month and a half into an insane heater? Why is Candelario batting sixth when you explicitly traded for him to beef up the offense and he's near leading the league in 2B's? And then your only response to the media when Happ blows four rallies in four games by GIDP'ing after one of Nico or Tauchman get on is "Ian likes batting third"??? Jed either needs to get a loving bench coach who actually knows how to set lineups or just directly take the lineup card out of David's hand, because he clearly has no loving clue how to do it. Ross is entering into his final year and the Cubs better not loving extend him before the season starts. Maybe he can turn some things around and get better at this, he is still technically pretty new at this whole thing relative to a lot of the vets. But man if we get another season of him running out bizarre as gently caress lineups and benching all the exciting prospects for AAAA washouts from Korea then he's gotta be shown the door.
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Oct 11, 2023 23:03
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Sydin posted:I guess where we ultimately diverge in our opinions is that I think it does make sense. Fielding Hosmer means the Cubs were okay with mediocrity at 1B, so why not give that rope to your rookie and see what he is or isn't rather than give it to Hosmer who doesn't help your future at all? As for providing backup, going into the season it looked like all of Wisdom/Morel/Madrigal were going to be fighting for reps at 3B and either of Wisdom/Morel could have spelled Mervis there from time to time. A Mervis/Morel tandem in particular would have been way smarter than bringing in Hosmer and banishing Morel to Iowa to start the season. I guess they could have cobbled together some franken-1b from the pieces they had but I don't fault the Cubs for going out and picking up a relatively known quantity 1b for next to nothing just in case. Morel was destined for Iowa after he fell off late last season so I don't think it was clear what his role on the Major League team was going to be. Signing Hosmer to play backup to Mervis makes sense to me and I think this was ultimately what the Cubs were hoping to do. idk what the purpose of Mancini was (perhaps hoping to flip Bellinger and he fills in for the outfield?) seems like he was redundant. Ultimately it doesn't matter, the Cubs are still in need of a 1b at this point. Hopefully Mervis can come up have a better go around next season or we sign my good friend Cody!
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Oct 11, 2023 23:03
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Sydin posted:Dansby was also the best hitter of the four big SS's through till about August when Dansby completely forgot how to hit and Turner rebounded into one of the hottest bats in the league. I'll take best-in-class defense at SS along with a bat that has a floor of being league average. It's a Dansby thing. I went through three stages of Dansby in 2022. 1. Launch him into the sun. I'm done. 2. Holy cow, Dansby is on fire. Maybe we should keep him. 3. Launch him into the sun. I'm done. I'm not sure if he's ever going to put together a complete season.
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Oct 12, 2023 02:05
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Sydin posted:Rossposting Thank you for this! I usually just think of Ross as an extension of Hoyer and the front office, but he is quite stubborn about running out the same dudes over and over again, results be damned. Other than his bullpen usage, late in the season I was most confused by when and where he played Wisdom, which was too seldom for him to get any rhythm at the plate. There were also times when Ross must've thought, "Man, the only way we get back in this game is with a massive Wisdong!" and send him in to pinch hit, and poor Patrick would inevitably strike out because he was rusty as gently caress.
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Oct 12, 2023 02:29
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Despite the way things worked out against Houston, I'm not gonna write a doom and gloom depression post. The Twins overachieved quite a bit this year and even through the AL Central Memes showed they belonged with the other top teams by sweeping their Wild Card series and (mostly) holding their own against Houston. So let's look at the positives 1: Pablo Lopez showed that the Arraez trade was very good because he's a dang stud 2: A ton of youth showed up and showed out. Julien, Wallner, and of course Lewis were all rookies this year and were some of our best hitters. -2a: While Lewis rightfully gets all the attention, Julien deserves a special shoutout too because he probably picked up the majority of the at bats that would have gone to Arraez, and he put up a 130 OPS+ to Arraez's 133. 3: The bullpen was actually pretty good! 4: The offense was top 10 in runs scored despite Correa having the worst season of his career, Buxton barely hitting above the Mendoza Line, and Joey Gallo getting over 300 plate appearances. 5: The pitching staff led all of baseball in Quality starts and strikeouts. They will likely lose Sonny Gray and Kenta Maeda to free agency, so we'll have to see what free agency brings there. Kepley and Polanco have team options, but after the second half he had it feels like a no brainer that they pick up Kepler's. Polanco is a little more iffy because with Brooks Lee already in AAA they're going to run into a severe surplus of non-1B infielders.
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Oct 12, 2023 02:49
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Here lie the Minnesota Twins. They won more games than the entire AL East
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Oct 12, 2023 03:09
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Popete posted:hopefully Hosmer can give you what he has pretty consistenly done over his career (a very average but competent 1b). Hos hasn't been competent for a long time. His 2018-2013 slash line is .263/.323/.406, ok for a shortstop terrible for a 1B
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Oct 12, 2023 03:23
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I think a Twins fan’s hell is losing to the Astros while they had Jose Abreu and Michael Brantley. It’s like the last decade of horror rolled into one.
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Oct 12, 2023 03:25
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Kirios posted:I think a Twins fan’s hell is losing to the Astros while they had Jose Abreu and Michael Brantley. No, our hell was an endless cycle of getting early leads on the Yankees only to eventually get punched in the dick by Alex Rodriguez every loving game. Not expecting to win the world series didn't make it suck less when your team gets eliminated, but at least Minnesota looked like they belonged. Infidel Castro fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Oct 12, 2023 |
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Oct 12, 2023 03:30
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To be honest, I'm just glad we went out like a normal team. Like, every team but one has their season end like this. For all Minnesota sports fans like to wail and gnash their teeth at every possible opportunity, this was just a thoroughly unremarkable playoff elimination. The memes are over, and no one is going to remember that we lost this series a year from now or even a month from now. I can just engage in normal cope like pointing to our prospects and hoping for better health and improvement next year, rather than wondering if we will ever escape the Endless Vortex of Howling Torment. maruhkati fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Oct 12, 2023 |
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Oct 12, 2023 03:35
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I think the Cardinals Devil Magictm got transferred to Houston  Miz Kriss posted:
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Oct 12, 2023 05:18
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PLAYOFF LOSERS
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I think what I’m most frustrated by at this point is that this team still gave me hope late in the year. Last winter the FO acted like they were playing with house money, they picked up cheap retreads and made no big moves. They went into the season with a thin roster and even thinner pitching staff. I thought they were gonna pay for that, particularly with a supposedly resurgent Padres competing for the division. They doubled down on this at the trade deadline, picking up a bunch of negative WAR players. Then the Padres fell flat and the Dodgers somehow won 100 games anyway, giving false hope that they might do something in October. I should have channeled my inner mcmagic all year instead of getting suckered by this team once again.
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Oct 12, 2023 06:19
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This isn't the kind of post I'd expect from you, a staunch "The playoffs are a crapshoot" guy They were a good team that went cold at the wrong time You don't accidentally win 100 games
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Oct 12, 2023 06:28
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Go look up my posts from March and April. This roster was the weakest they’ve had since like 2015 and I had serious doubts they’d win the division. 100 wins was absolutely on the very high end of possible outcomes this year. Some projection systems had them pegged for under 90. A team like that can still win in October if they get hot, (they did in ‘88) but obviously the margin is much thinner. bawfuls fucked around with this message at 06:36 on Oct 12, 2023 |
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Oct 12, 2023 06:32
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I’m honestly fine if this is the end for Kersh in a Dodger uniform. The regular season and anything one might accomplish in it are loving meaningless now - forget about career accomplishments like 300 wins, the brass is now openly hostile to letting fans see something as hallowed as a perfect game. I just can’t watch another Game 1 (or Game 4 on short rest) from him, it’s been 15 years of this same poo poo.
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Oct 12, 2023 06:56
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He needs to come back for two months, get to 3000 strikeouts, and call it a career. I don’t know how any Dodgers fan can be fine with last Saturday being the final game of Kershaw’s career. bawfuls fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Oct 12, 2023 |
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Oct 12, 2023 06:59
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Clayton Kershaw is one of the greatest pitchers of all time, honestly 10 years from now nobody is going to care about the "October Kershaw" narrative. He's won a ring and the majority of the time he pitches he's elite. There are plenty of other great player who hardly ever sniffed the playoffs and are still looked at as the best of all time. I mean you can even look at 2 active players both greatest players of all time in Trout and Ohtani whose playoff narrative is far more dire than Kershaw's.
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Oct 12, 2023 07:02
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I disagree about the stickiness of that narrative. At a bare minimum Giants fans will never forget it. And no one in this day and age blames Trout and Ohtani for not getting to October.
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Oct 12, 2023 07:05
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bawfuls posted:At a bare minimum Giants fans will never forget it. 100% correct
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Oct 12, 2023 07:14
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But who cares? 10+ years from now it'll be a thing of note but Kershaw is still going to be revered. Kershaw is undeniably a great pitcher and he even won a WS ring! There are plenty of great players who can't say that.
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Oct 12, 2023 07:18
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Popete posted:But who cares? 10+ years from now it'll be a thing of note but Kershaw is still going to be revered. Kershaw's ring is a lot how most of society sees covid. It's not a big deal or it doesn't even exist!
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Oct 12, 2023 10:05
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bawfuls posted:And no one in this day and age blames Trout and Ohtani for not getting to October. I still hear the occasional dimwit try and do this. They can safely be ignored.
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Oct 12, 2023 13:07
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https://twitter.com/MagicJohnson/status/1712474454998278423?s=20
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Oct 12, 2023 15:25
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never change Magic
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Oct 12, 2023 15:29
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incredible post
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Oct 12, 2023 15:35
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Thanks Magic
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Oct 12, 2023 15:39
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Okuteru posted:Kershaw's ring is a lot how most of society sees covid.
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Oct 12, 2023 15:43
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Dodgers managerial candidates I’ve seen proposed in the last 12 hours: Buck Showalter Gabe Kapler Chase Utley
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Oct 12, 2023 15:52
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bawfuls posted:A large portion of the baseball watching public sees 2017 as more legitimate than 2020. 
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Oct 12, 2023 16:10
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bawfuls posted:A large portion of the baseball watching public sees 2017 as more legitimate than 2020. I'm a big dumb Astros fan and this doesn't make any sense to me....maybe cause it's more recent or less games means didn't count? MrMidnight fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Oct 12, 2023 |
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Oct 12, 2023 16:17
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bawfuls posted:At a bare minimum Giants fans will never forget it. All you have to do is say "Barry Bonds"
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Oct 12, 2023 16:28
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MrMidnight posted:I'm a big dumb Astros fan and this doesn't make any sense to me....maybe cause it's more recent or less games means didn't count? it's the latter
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Oct 12, 2023 16:31
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MrMidnight posted:I'm a big dumb Astros fan and this doesn't make any sense to me....maybe cause it's more recent or less games means didn't count? Sports fans will find literally any reason to discount shortened seasons. Go back 10 years and you’ll probably find people on this very forum arguing that the Heat didn’t win a “real” championship in 2012 because of the lockout.
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Oct 12, 2023 16:42
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People literally tell me in person that 2020 “doesn’t really count” or otherwise downplay its relevance to the Dodgers in general and Kershaw specifically. That’s not even getting to the cesspool that is internet sports discussion. bawfuls fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Oct 12, 2023 |
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Oct 12, 2023 17:17
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Remembering Justin Turner, having tested positive for COVID before the game, playing anyway and then hanging around with teammates and their families after the game without a mask
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Oct 12, 2023 17:19
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the playoffs in 2020 were more of a gauntlet than they had been previously, and i find it hard to believe that the dodgers wouldn't have won the NL west in a hypothetical 162-game 2020 season
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Oct 12, 2023 17:20
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bawfuls posted:People literally tell me in person that 2020 “only kinda counts” or otherwise downplay its relevance to the Dodgers in general and Kershaw specifically. I think that championship is always going to kind of count as 0.5 championships in the eyes of a lot of people until they win another one. If they can win another that can be considered nebulously in the same era, then I think that retroactively validates the 2020 one for all but the biggest losers and haters.
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Oct 12, 2023 17:22
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Intruder posted:Remembering Justin Turner, having tested positive for COVID before the game, playing anyway and then hanging around with teammates and their families after the game without a mask Yes friend, you got any more pleasant memories you’d like to share with me right now?
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Oct 12, 2023 17:22
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The 2020 regular season was bullshit but the 2020 postseason was played using the standard format at the time and it's not like the Dodgers were a team you'd expect wouldn't have made it without the benefit of a shortened season. The only "advantage" I guess is that it meant they got to play a postseason without the 162 game grind so everybody was (presumably) healthier, but that also applies to anybody else who made the postseason as well, so  idk, I feel like you could only really call a 2020 WS win illegitimate or "half" a championship if it was won thanks to an outsized benefit derived from playing a shorter season relative to the other teams, and the Dodgers aren't such a team. If like the Rockies or Royals had managed to sneak in thanks to a 20 game hot streak and then somehow stumbled into a ring, I'd be more inclined to agree it doesn't really count.
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Oct 12, 2023 17:28
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