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I'd say a major factor would be whether ebikes are even allowed on your local/favorite trail system but it turns out nobody loving cares
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Oct 12, 2023 14:20
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I certainly don't care. If emtbs get people outdoors and using the trails, that's more people who are going to vote and donate for further trail improvement. I draw the line at electric dirt bikes as those have enough horsepower to actually damage the MTB single track.
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Oct 12, 2023 19:21
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Clark Nova posted:I'd say a major factor would be whether ebikes are even allowed on your local/favorite trail system but it turns out nobody loving cares E-bikes aren't restricted to or from particular trail systems here and also nobody would notice or care even if there was a rule on the books. Outside of literally one incident on a climbing trail I've never once noticed if someone else is riding an e-bike let alone had any awkward interactions. I've had way more people act like dicks on "regular" bikes. I do wish e-bike riders would use bells or at least call out when passing but that's an everyone thing. Eejit posted:I certainly don't care. If emtbs get people outdoors and using the trails, that's more people who are going to vote and donate for further trail improvement. What he said.
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Oct 12, 2023 22:34
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VacaGrande posted:E-bikes aren't restricted to or from particular trail systems here and also nobody would notice or care even if there was a rule on the books. Outside of literally one incident on a climbing trail I've never once noticed if someone else is riding an e-bike let alone had any awkward interactions. I've had way more people act like dicks on "regular" bikes. I do wish e-bike riders would use bells or at least call out when passing but that's an everyone thing. Yeah it's less a safety thing and more a erodes-the-trails thing
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Oct 12, 2023 22:55
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FWIW all the local trail builders I know have emtbs
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Oct 12, 2023 22:57
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Mederlock posted:Yeah it's less a safety thing and more a erodes-the-trails thing Outside of e-bikes with throttles like Sur-rons there's no evidence that e-bikes erode trails significantly worse than other bikes, but I'd love to see a study if I'm wrong. IMBA study from 2015 showing nearly-identical outcomes from "regular" bikes and pedal-assist e-bikes There are other potential concerns about reach into the backcountry and such, and that's a whole other can of worms, but I haven't seen any evidence that pedal-assist e-bikes are any more harmful than non-powered bikes.
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Oct 13, 2023 00:01
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I don't have an eMTB, but I'm all for them if it gets more people riding and supporting the trails. My biggest concern with eMTBs isn't really about eMTBs at all but about the general trailbuilding philosophy that has driven their adoption. Especially in the western US, there seems to be a general philosophy that all the fun of mountain biking is in going downhill and that the climb is a chore you do to get there. I grew up in Michigan and moved to the PNW, and while I vastly prefer the riding here, the near total absence of good technical climbs is a real bummer. The only real technical climb I know of around here is an unsanctioned trail -- everything else is either wide machine-built trail or fire road. I worry that with the adoption of eMTBs we're never going to see another Comfortably Numb or Kill Me Thrill Me get built. Maybe I'm worrying for nothing and it's certainly not a reason to ban e-bikes, but it does make me concerned about the general direction of the sport.
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Oct 13, 2023 00:38
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Mederlock posted:Yeah it's less a safety thing and more a erodes-the-trails thing One of our local trails was closed most of the summer because the e-bikes trashed them when it rained. I would quit riding before I owned one but I decided to die on that hill for fun.
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Oct 13, 2023 01:25
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Ropes4u posted:I decided to die on that hill for fun.
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Oct 13, 2023 01:30
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Setec_Astronomy posted:I don't have an eMTB, but I'm all for them if it gets more people riding and supporting the trails. Where in the PNW are you? That doesn't sound like what I've experienced in greater Seattle area. Or maybe I've never seen what you mean by technical climbs!
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Oct 13, 2023 02:49
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It can be the same on the Canada side, technical climbs are kind of few and far between. Even then you have jackasses that go up the fire road to downhill the one climb trail in a network, because that is the mentality for most.
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Oct 13, 2023 03:50
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bicievino posted:Where in the PNW are you? That doesn't sound like what I've experienced in greater Seattle area. Or maybe I've never seen what you mean by technical climbs! I'm in Issaquah, so we're talking about the same trails! The one local technical climb I know of is Raging River area; it's an unsanctioned trail that crosses Raging Tiger after it has flattened out. You can spot it if you look for a fairly narrow wood bridge on your left when climbing. Somewhere around here: https://www.trailforks.com/tracker/map/?ping=47.491261,-121.844492. It's one of my absolute favorite trails in the area. I think it is going to eventually be incorporated into the sanctioned trail network in one of the upcoming development phases. There are some older trails around here that do have some good techy uphill (or flat) stuff on them, especially in the older, flatter riding areas like Paradise Valley and Summit Ridge. There are also some old multi-use trails (e.g. Ranger Creek) that are extremely technical but weren't really purpose-built for MTB. But newer trails (Tiger/Raging/Tokul/Duthie/Olallie/etc) generally follow the easy machine-built climb format. I've lived here a bit over a decade and I don't recall a single new uphill (or flat) technical trail being built in that time. The trail development here has been amazing in general but it's quite skewed in terms of the character. All of this is just my impressions; maybe I've totally missed new riding areas and new developments that I should have been checking out! Jehde posted:It can be the same on the Canada side, technical climbs are kind of few and far between. Even then you have jackasses that go up the fire road to downhill the one climb trail in a network, because that is the mentality for most. Yeah, it's definitely similar e.g. at Fromme or Seymour. Pemberton does seem to have taken an opposite tack -- they actually added "easy down" trails to make their fun climbs accessible to worse descenders! Whistler also has a bunch of great climbs and they're still making new good stuff (e.g. Dirty Beasts :chefskiss:) Edit: Pic that someone else took from Dirty Beasts; this is a good example of what a tech climb might look like: 
Setec_Astronomy fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Oct 13, 2023 |
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Oct 13, 2023 04:15
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Ropes4u posted:One of our local trails was closed most of the summer because the e-bikes trashed them when it rained. Wouldn't regular bikes have done the same thing?
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Oct 13, 2023 04:20
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Setec_Astronomy posted:I don't have an eMTB, but I'm all for them if it gets more people riding and supporting the trails. I wonder the same thing sometimes but it’s not even e-bikes completely driving it. Mountain biking as “go downhill and do gnarly stuff” seems to dominate a lot of the media space now. MTB as adventure or anything else seems less popular
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Oct 13, 2023 04:34
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Gravel bikes have seized the mandate of adventure, and soon they will gain wider bars and suspension, and the cycle will be complete.
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Oct 13, 2023 04:36
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Levitate posted:I wonder the same thing sometimes but it’s not even e-bikes completely driving it. Mountain biking as “go downhill and do gnarly stuff” seems to dominate a lot of the media space now. MTB as adventure or anything else seems less popular Yeah I'm absolutely not blaming e-bikes for it; I think they're more of a symptom of that general shift in perspective. Also I absolutely love going downhill and doing gnarly stuff! I just want to also go uphill and do janky stuff!
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Oct 13, 2023 04:43
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I got into mountain biking because I was like "what if bikes but also no cars?"
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Oct 13, 2023 05:47
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Mederlock posted:Yeah it's less a safety thing and more a erodes-the-trails thing I see this argument a lot yet 99% of people who use it never even volunteer to help with trail maintenance anyway. If the people who complained about ebikers actually helped trail builders and trail associations maintain their local trails this wouldn't even be an issue.
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Oct 13, 2023 08:28
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So I wanted to close the loop on my story. I ended up buying a Norco Optic C3. It came in at a really good price, there was really only one other option and it was a big step back component wise. I took it to Stromlo today and rode up the greens with one blue in the middle on the way up, then greens all the way down. We stopped short of the steepest climb because of time constraints. The climb was really fun. Definitely I was totally outpaced by the emtb but I still got up there fine. Downhill was great. Hit a few of the jumps and a couple of the little baby drops. Felt extremely confident the whole way. Overall; mission success.
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Oct 13, 2023 10:11
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Setec_Astronomy posted:I'm in Issaquah, so we're talking about the same trails! What's your opinion about the Grand Ridge trail that connects on the south end of Duthie? I rode that and it was like 1000+ feet of climbing over however many miles. I thought it was super fun on my hardtail so the next week I rode from Woodinville to Grand Ridge south on Lake Sammamish trail, then rode 5 miles of Grand Ridge on a 10-speed road bike (complete with rim brakes). If you want some white knuckle climbing and descending that should do it.
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Oct 13, 2023 16:02
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abigserve posted:So I wanted to close the loop on my story. I’ve had an optic for a few years and really enjoyed it. Get a little bag to mount on the underside of the top tube. I carry my inreach among other stuff in it.
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Oct 13, 2023 16:09
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Salt Fish posted:What's your opinion about the Grand Ridge trail that connects on the south end of Duthie? I rode that and it was like 1000+ feet of climbing over however many miles. I thought it was super fun on my hardtail so the next week I rode from Woodinville to Grand Ridge south on Lake Sammamish trail, then rode 5 miles of Grand Ridge on a 10-speed road bike (complete with rim brakes). If you want some white knuckle climbing and descending that should do it. Grand Ridge is a great trail for getting some cardio, but it's not very technical. I haven't ridden it in a while and I do recall some tough switchbacks but not too much else. I could definitely underbike to get more of a climbing challenge, but that doesn't hold the same draw for me. I'm doing some trail maintenance at Tiger later this month and I'm going to try to get the ear of someone at Evergreen about building some actual technical uphills. I've talked to one of the main Tiger trailbuilders before about it and we did not see eye-to-eye (he hates Comfortably Numb and thinks it's 1990's trail design, which is exactly my point). Aside; I just looked at the Trailforks comment section for Comfortably Numb: Trailforks commenters posted:comfortably numb was pretty bad. Pockets of 5 second descents in between flat chunky rocks and roots. Not much fun on longer travel bikes Trailforks commenters posted:There is not an inch of the trail that is not covered in rocks and roots. Made it tough to get any flow at all for me. Trailforks commenters posted:This IMBA awarded trail is a must ride once in your lifetime. And by that I mean ONCE in your lifetime. The guys that awarded this trails were high on something. If by all the features a trail must have they mean lots of push a bike and pedal strikes you got yourself served. To be honest I’m never riding it again, worst experience I had in Whistler. Trailforks commenters posted:A different climbing trail could make this trail world famous. AAAAGGGHHH this trail IS world famous!!!! It's famous because of the climbing sections that it does have!!! Get off my lawn!!
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Oct 13, 2023 17:24
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prom candy posted:I got into mountain biking because I was like "what if bikes but also no cars?" This is me, 1000%. Trees only move once in a great while, compared to vehicles consistently trying to murder me.
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Oct 13, 2023 17:33
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Thinking about getting a camelback type system for water, any recommendations? Some people say they make your back sweaty but personally I tend to run on the cold side. Part of the draw for me is having a backpack to ride with also means I could chuck knee pads or extra layers or whatever in there. Right now I ride with a water bottle in a cage and a tiny hip pack for my phone and stuff.
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Oct 13, 2023 17:44
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If you're looking for some vintage 90s trails check out the Tapeworm over in Renton. There's no real uphill downhill split like you'd see on Tiger, it's built on a relatively small patch of hillside so it alternates alot as the trail worms around. It's nonstop roots, rocks, logs, and offcamber corners. Good luck getting through without putting a foot down a few times. This is where I learned to ride back in the early 2000s, then took a looooong break before getting back into mtb recently. I was shocked at how much the sport had reoriented to downhill. I do love the downhill aspect of it now but I still go back and do Tapeworm and it's neighbor Parasite once in awhile.
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Oct 13, 2023 18:18
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I think a big part of it is just that old school technical climbs do not play nicely with modern long/low/slack geo. There are a few climbs like that in this area where the switchbacks are tight enough that you need to sort of hop your way around if you're on a long bike and the trees are narrow enough that you need to put your handlebars through one side at a time. Some absolute monsters can do it for sure, but it sucks all the fun out for me when I find my ride interrupted all the time. Maybe they'd be more fun on an XC bike or an old school bike with a steep head angle and narrow bars. I had a week off this week, so I went down to Fernie and conditions were incredible. Didn't see a single other person on the trails during my weekday rides. 
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Oct 13, 2023 18:51
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 i love riding through fern tunnels in dark pine forests but i'm so jealous of these open viewscome up to Bellingham for some techy climbs. Galbraith and Chuckanut/Blanchard have some great uphill (and downhill, ofc) trails
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Oct 13, 2023 19:03
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WHERE MY HAT IS AT posted:I think a big part of it is just that old school technical climbs do not play nicely with modern long/low/slack geo. There are a few climbs like that in this area where the switchbacks are tight enough that you need to sort of hop your way around if you're on a long bike and the trees are narrow enough that you need to put your handlebars through one side at a time. Some absolute monsters can do it for sure, but it sucks all the fun out for me when I find my ride interrupted all the time. My spouse went from a 620mm bar to 760mm on their new bike and all the narrow trees on older trails went from challenging to ‘lol, nope.’
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Oct 13, 2023 19:06
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oXDemosthenesXo posted:If you're looking for some vintage 90s trails check out the Tapeworm over in Renton. There's no real uphill downhill split like you'd see on Tiger, it's built on a relatively small patch of hillside so it alternates alot as the trail worms around. It's nonstop roots, rocks, logs, and offcamber corners. Good luck getting through without putting a foot down a few times. I enjoy Tapeworm for sure! It's classic jank. I think I've ridden it clean a few times but it's certainly not easy. Two Trees at Paradise Valley is another great one. My real complaint isn't that there are no tech trails in the area, it's that they aren't building them anymore*! Everything built in the last 10 years is smooth climb into rowdy descent. The only exception I can think of is Summit Ridge, and that was just a rebuild/rework of an existing trail that was destroyed by logging. *Edit: and that I wish we had tech trails that climbed mountains. HAIL eSATA-n posted:come up to Bellingham for some techy climbs. Galbraith and Chuckanut/Blanchard have some great uphill (and downhill, ofc) trails Trail recommendations please! I recently rode Space Wolf at Galbraith which has a nice techy entrance and exit; is there more like that? Galbraith is so huge that I feel like I've barely scratched the surface after 10-or-so visits. Setec_Astronomy fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Oct 13, 2023 |
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Oct 13, 2023 19:12
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Setec_Astronomy posted:Trail recommendations please! I recently rode Space Wolf at Galbraith which has a nice techy entrance and exit; is there more like that? Galbraith is so huge that I feel like I've barely scratched the surface after 10-or-so visits. I've only hiked the blanchard/chuckanut areas so I can't recommend anything specific there
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Oct 13, 2023 19:26
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A guy I know is selling a Trek Marlin (a couple years old model, a 6 I think) in my size for $500. Barely ridden, deore 10spd 1x drivetrain, 29" wheels. Does that sound like a reasonable buy? I bought my road bike from the same person and know him personally, so I trust his evaluation of the condition/ mileage.
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Oct 13, 2023 20:17
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Any bike for $500 is reasonable if it fits you and doesn't have major issues.
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Oct 13, 2023 20:27
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Oldsrocket_27 posted:A guy I know is selling a Trek Marlin (a couple years old model, a 6 I think) in my size for $500. Barely ridden, deore 10spd 1x drivetrain, 29" wheels. Does that sound like a reasonable buy? I bought my road bike from the same person and know him personally, so I trust his evaluation of the condition/ mileage. Reasonable, if a little high. $650-800 msrp depending on when he got it. OTOH, I can’t think of a better/cheaper option that’s as convenient.
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Oct 13, 2023 21:31
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prom candy posted:Thinking about getting a camelback type system for water, any recommendations? Some people say they make your back sweaty but personally I tend to run on the cold side. Part of the draw for me is having a backpack to ride with also means I could chuck knee pads or extra layers or whatever in there. Right now I ride with a water bottle in a cage and a tiny hip pack for my phone and stuff. https://www.osprey.com/us/en/product/siskin-12-SISKIN12S23_584.html I ride with that every ride, it works great.
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Oct 13, 2023 22:50
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The voices in my head are telling me I should get a fatbike this season
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Oct 13, 2023 22:55
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Nohearum posted:The voices in my head are telling me I should get a fatbike this season so are voices on the forum
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Oct 13, 2023 23:34
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Eejit posted:https://www.osprey.com/us/en/product/siskin-12-SISKIN12S23_584.html I prefer the syncro 12 as you have a sleeve on outside to stuff the pads.
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Oct 14, 2023 00:42
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prom candy posted:Wouldn't regular bikes have done the same thing? I don’t think regular bikes tear up the trail nearly as much as e-bikes - am I wrong?
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Oct 14, 2023 02:34
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bikes  
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Oct 14, 2023 02:34
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Ropes4u posted:I don’t think regular bikes tear up the trail nearly as much as e-bikes - am I wrong? On uphills you're probably right, on downhills there's no difference imo.
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Oct 14, 2023 02:51
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