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AHH F/UGH posted:just walk around trying to chat up strangers like a Yakuza game This works in Dotonbori after 1 am or so.
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 06:49 |
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# ? May 28, 2024 16:02 |
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Gabriel Grub posted:This works in Dotonbori after 1 am or so. Gotta watch out for Mr Shakedown though.
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 06:51 |
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Gabriel Grub posted:This works in Dotonbori after 1 am or so. If my experience is any guide then I'm better off trying in Korean first in this case.
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 07:04 |
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On the topic of speaking Japanese, I feel like I need a proper answer for the inevitable "nihongo jouzu" because I could just about ask for a drink at a bar. What's a good (and simple!) way to basically say "I know I'm barely able to speak but I appreciate the gesture"
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 14:27 |
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Question Mark Mound posted:On the topic of speaking Japanese, I feel like I need a proper answer for the inevitable "nihongo jouzu" because I could just about ask for a drink at a bar. Tondemonai desu.
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 14:32 |
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"Oh really"? but in katakana like ooo riari?
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 15:15 |
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LyonsLions posted:Tondemonai desu. peanut posted:"Oh really"? but in katakana like ooo riari?
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 19:09 |
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Charles 2 of Spain posted:Conversely I would kill for some American BBQ, meat pies or fish and chips. For what it's worth, British fish and chips is supposedly pretty good here in Roppongi https://maps.app.goo.gl/MvRKx4vjVqhQ4z2RA or https://maps.app.goo.gl/eUxze2tMSUvk6UJU8
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# ? Oct 12, 2023 21:23 |
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Question Mark Mound posted:On the topic of speaking Japanese, I feel like I need a proper answer for the inevitable "nihongo jouzu" because I could just about ask for a drink at a bar. My Japanese teacher told me to use "madamada"
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# ? Oct 13, 2023 00:06 |
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So as a data point, my wife and I are halfway thru our trip right now. She’s studied Japanese for 2 years. I’ve studied for 10 months, about an hour every day, and we both feel quite far from being able to hold anything resembling a real conversation with a native speaker. Not trying to be negative about plans to learn and immerse yourself, but I’d agree with what folks are saying r.e. managing your expectations
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# ? Oct 13, 2023 00:49 |
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dads friend steve posted:So as a data point, my wife and I are halfway thru our trip right now. She’s studied Japanese for 2 years. I’ve studied for 10 months, about an hour every day, and we both feel quite far from being able to hold anything resembling a real conversation with a native speaker. English and Japanese are about the farthest away linguistically as is possible. When training diplomats for the Foreign Service, the U.S. state department does language training; Japanese is the one that has the longest intensive study period, from memory. Aredna posted:My Japanese teacher told me to use "madamada" That’s probably a better one, showing you’re aware you’re still learning.
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# ? Oct 13, 2023 01:15 |
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harperdc posted:English and Japanese are about the farthest away linguistically as is possible. When training diplomats for the Foreign Service, the U.S. state department does language training; Japanese is the one that has the longest intensive study period, from memory. Something I’m reminding myself of daily when, e.g. there’s someone else in an elevator and I blank on how to say “hachi kai onegaishimasu” and hastily mumble “shitsureishimasu” while reaching over for the button myself.
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# ? Oct 13, 2023 01:37 |
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Went to Fuji-Q Highland today. It was alright. Lines were longer than I was hoping. Fujiyama beat the poo poo out of me.
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# ? Oct 13, 2023 05:02 |
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Figured this was worth dredging up: https://imgur.com/4FjiGcJ
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# ? Oct 13, 2023 05:26 |
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I'll risk furthering the derail, since people seem a little keen to talk about the subject of language learning. Again, sorry for the off-topic post, and thanks for either reading or suppressing the annoyance of having to scroll past it. I'm actually thinking through the decision anyway, so I'll risk doing a little bit of journaling here where it might strike a chord with someone. I'm even going to spoiler it this time. dads friend steve posted:So as a data point, my wife and I are halfway thru our trip right now. She’s studied Japanese for 2 years. I’ve studied for 10 months, about an hour every day, and we both feel quite far from being able to hold anything resembling a real conversation with a native speaker. I'm about 15 years in on and off with Korean and am just now reaching the point where I'd say I understand almost all of the stuff on TV and in novels intended for adults. I didn't really feel comfortable to engage in prolonged conversations with native speakers until finishing my immersion program, which I did after 3 years of casual study, so that put me about 3.5 years into Korean at the time. My expectations are fully managed, don't worry. harperdc posted:English and Japanese are about the farthest away linguistically as is possible. When training diplomats for the Foreign Service, the U.S. state department does language training; Japanese is the one that has the longest intensive study period, from memory. Korean enjoys pretty much the same distinction. This post is really funny to me (no offense), because I've written it a few times over the years, except towards people studying Korean as a hobby. Language learning is a lifelong hobby. And to the people saying I'm "overthinking it," I'd respectfully disagree. If you're going to spend hundreds, thousands of aggregate hours doing something you'd better be able to reason about the why and how of it. So for me: the how of Korean was "I'm living here, I need to communicate with the people around me," and after that, "I need to be able to talk with the in-laws when they visit," and now since I've moved back we've evolved to, "I want to engage meaningfully and deeply with the culture and individuals around me, including my in-laws and Korean friends." The how is more interesting to other people. My progression was: 1. Completely clueless but surrounded by native speakers and script. Work (English teaching) involved a contractual obligation to engage in English 8 hours a day. 1-3 hours of leeway every day to hit the books. month 0-1. 2. Able to read slowly, "having an ear for the language" - being able to pick out learned words and phrases from speech if I concentrate. Have absorbed the entirety of the "baby grammar" - the equivalent of "tourist English" that you speak if you want to be understood abroad. months 1-3. 3. Finding out what I don't know. Getting a reference for more idiomatic grammar (e.g. the "-거든요" ending, "you probably know this, but let me remind you...), picking out words in daily activities that, by not knowing, cause interruptions to my flow. month 3-12. 4. Chill out on this plateau, years 1-3. I wasn't good enough to have prolonged conversation, so my language skills were only useful to help me navigate practical situations. I was an English teacher without savings and means. I couldn't afford to take time off to study, so I made the best of my situation. 5. Lay down the time and money for an immersion course - 4 hours a day in-class, 4 hours a day of homework, taking time off of work to be a full-time student. This involved having conversation time with a captive audience - other students who also wanted to learn - for a few hours a day and really helped my level of comfort. I was able to skip levels 1A-2B of my course, which is actually the equivalent of 6 months, I misremembered earlier. So that's what a year of casual study bought me - the equivalent of 6 months in an immersion program would've. 6. Graduate school, surrounded by bright native speakers who sometimes wanted to talk in English but were always conversing amongst themselves in Korean, and with me when I wanted to. The perfect environment to push my limits. This is when I really took off. So on to Japanese. Why? Language learning later in life has different motivations and prospects compared to earlier in life. Learning Korean actually had tangible benefits for me. Any language I start to learn at 40 is unlikely to. So my answer to the question of "why should I learn any language, despite the huge time investment?" is "Why not? I can afford to travel easily now, I'm really loving bored with life in a lot of ways, I find it interesting and engaging, and I have a full-remote job. Means, motive, and opportunity." What better way does your average 40-something have to spend their time? Some have kids, and I appreciate that that takes a ton of time. Hell, that's kind of the thing that's put me in this situation. A lot of my lifelong friends don't have much time to hang out anymore because they're too busy with being a parent. So here I am trying to find engaging ways to occupy my time. And I guess I could.. take up knitting? Collecting vacuum cleaners? Why Japanese specifically? Contrary to the expectation some people have, I'm very much the opposite of a weeb. I have settled semi long-term in Asia for practical reasons - my wife's career and my flexible working hours - not because I was drawn in by the pop culture. I think I might be kind of a "language weeb" as the above wall of text betrays, but I don't have particular interest in Asian pop culture. I didn't know a thing about Korea before I came here, and my exposure to Japanese pop culture begins and ends with Mario and Final Fantasy. I find most K-Dramas and J-Dramas cringe-inducing. It's actually a real problem for Korean learning. I'd like to be able to engage with the pop culture here but the intersection of what I find interesting and what's out there is relatively small. What I like about Japan is similar to what I like about Korea: society is organized very well here, and things tend to work really well, so it's very comfortable and people treat each other well. Also.. I feel motivated for some reason. I don't know exactly why, but I've learned to trust this feeling. I'm ready to engage with it, and therefore I'll put the time in and not slack off. Another one of my motivations is linguistic. One theory I'll be testing is that, Korean and Japanese having similar phonetics, grammar and a ton of cognates will at least make it less of a slog for me. I had several examples during my travels where somebody spoke a complex sentence in Japanese and I knew exactly what they were saying because I picked up on a couple cognates. My earlier trip got me clear from stage 1 above - I can now read Hiragana, Katakana, and I've found that my Korean "ear" seems to apply to Japanese due to the phonetic similarity. I'm self-studying and plan to have absorbed all of the baby grammar by the time I depart for my trip, as well as a modest vocabulary. So hopefully when I land I'll be at 3 and ready to take advantage of my time. And all it costs me is the price of lodging and airfare, which is a pittance compared to what I'm making. The price or renting a whole AirBnB in Fukuoka is like 50-60 percent the price of renting a similar space on a long-term contract even with a 40 minute commute to my employer's home office in Palo Alto, relative to which my salary is adjusted. Some digital nomads spend their time and freedom getting a sunburn. I have a slightly different set of interests. I'm sensitive to how annoying this could be to locals. My #1 priority when abroad is to minimize my impact on people who don't have the time to deal with foreigners. I'm pretty good at reducing the burden I place on people around me to pretty close to the background level. And now back to your regularly scheduled shitposting. edit: thanks. I just assumed it would be dead like 80% of the rest of these forums, but it looks like it's alive and kicking. vvvvvvv The Gay Bean fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Oct 13, 2023 |
# ? Oct 13, 2023 05:28 |
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There's also a Japanese language learning thread and while it's generally people not in Japan studying the language there are some people who do or have lived there: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3954871
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# ? Oct 13, 2023 05:33 |
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Blackchamber posted:Figured this was worth dredging up: https://imgur.com/4FjiGcJ You laugh, but my old boss was a member of some Australian whip-cracking organization and owned a number of very large belt buckles featuring Tasmanian devils and like the first ship that sailed to Botany Bay.
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# ? Oct 13, 2023 06:04 |
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Blackchamber posted:Figured this was worth dredging up: https://imgur.com/4FjiGcJ I get it, I'm that dude. I've only read like 10 pages back so I'm not familiar with local thread culture, but I'm sure this means anything from some gentle hazing to "my god look at this pathetic weeb let's talk about him on Discord." I'm forced to live in Asia due to life circumstances, the alternative is my wife making the same sacrifice, and language learning is a matter of survival for me. So uh.. I don't know what to say. Maybe I've come to the wrong corner of the internet to reveal this interest. Or maybe there are no corners of the internet left to discuss anything, let alone Japan, earnestly.
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# ? Oct 13, 2023 07:09 |
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My only point was if you want to hang out in Fukuoka instead of Tokyo, you should do that, instead of sweating the linguistic differences too much.
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# ? Oct 13, 2023 07:27 |
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Yep, you're good, and your point is well received. And a lot of people in this thread have provided great information and advice. Even that person might be, and I might be overreacting, but it sure does look like a very unpleasant caricature aimed at me. Editing my post to minimize the derail even further: yeah, I'm cool with discussing language stuff in the language thread, sorry for the derail folks, I didn't intentionally come into this thread looking to discuss language learning and some of my questions veered in that direction because of people asking me why I wanted to do what I wanted to do. The Gay Bean fucked around with this message at 10:01 on Oct 13, 2023 |
# ? Oct 13, 2023 07:30 |
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I only started reading this thread about 2 weeks before my (currently ongoing) first trip to Japan, so I can’t speak to thread culture or whatever. I think you & I are just being reminded there’s a whole sub forum for learning about languages, with the Japanese Language Thread being one of its most active
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# ? Oct 13, 2023 08:02 |
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The Gay Bean posted:I get it, I'm that dude. Gentle ribbing, for your pleasure. Stuff is pretty cyclical here since every few months someone comes in curious about Japan or is planning a visit and we get into the same topics. Relax, stay a while, and rib the next guy. I've been on three Japan trips now and I know dick all about anything outside my own experiences so I lurk the thread and ask probably some of the most inane questions about the place that makes my favorite plastic garbage.
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# ? Oct 13, 2023 10:09 |
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For tax free shopping we just scan our passports when leaving and make sure to have the item in either checked or carry on right? We've barely done any but that might change when we hit USJ.
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# ? Oct 13, 2023 10:18 |
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Blackchamber posted:Gentle ribbing, for your pleasure. Stuff is pretty cyclical here since every few months someone comes in curious about Japan or is planning a visit and we get into the same topics. Relax, stay a while, and rib the next guy. All good man. The Korea thread in this forum was similar before it faded into obscurity, I can empathize. May you have many more enjoyable trips to Japan.
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# ? Oct 13, 2023 11:24 |
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Chekans 3 16 posted:For tax free shopping we just scan our passports when leaving and make sure to have the item in either checked or carry on right? We've barely done any but that might change when we hit USJ. Sounds like for checked baggage, just let the staff know at check-in. But otherwise yeah, sounds like that’s the process. Usually the receipts get stapled into your passport too. Also be careful not to eat any snacks that are bought duty free until you’re out of Japan or you’ll lose the tax benefit.
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# ? Oct 13, 2023 12:03 |
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i think countryside people won’t use their dialect because you are obviously not from their region and you wouldn’t know or understand it.
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# ? Oct 13, 2023 15:17 |
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mongolia posted:i think countryside people won’t use their dialect because you are obviously not from their region and you wouldn’t know or understand it. Old men will do whatever the gently caress they want.
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# ? Oct 13, 2023 15:57 |
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Chekans 3 16 posted:For tax free shopping we just scan our passports when leaving and make sure to have the item in either checked or carry on right? We've barely done any but that might change when we hit USJ. Yeah just don't mail it home, it has to be with you. I got a lot of tax free stuff last trip and nobody checked anything, I dunno how it all works.
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# ? Oct 13, 2023 17:16 |
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Re: thread culture, is there a nuance I’m missing why people nearly always say “inaka” instead of countryside in here or is it some “translator’s note: keikaku means plan” joke?
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# ? Oct 13, 2023 18:44 |
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I looked in my passport and I still have receipts stapled in there from my 2018 japan visit. Were they supposed to take this stuff at some point in the airport?
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# ? Oct 13, 2023 22:26 |
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Inaka means everything "not Tokyo", from the ricelands of Kyushu to the supermalls of Saitama.
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# ? Oct 13, 2023 23:09 |
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Countryside means different things to different people. I think of sprawling cornfields and cropdusters. Other people might think of, I dunno, some villa in Tuscany. Inaka, however, means the same thing to everyone.
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# ? Oct 14, 2023 04:17 |
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peanut posted:Inaka means everything "not Tokyo", from the ricelands of Kyushu to the supermalls of Saitama. Supermalls? Like Bangkok supermalls? I'd never heard them called that but the Bangkok malls are ridiculous.
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# ? Oct 14, 2023 04:29 |
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peanut posted:Inaka means everything "not Tokyo", from the ricelands of Kyushu to the supermalls of Saitama. For me it’s specifically once you get to deep suburbia and/or real rice paddy territory, and that can be 2 hours from Tokyo or much closer in the case of Fukuoka. I know there are jokes about people who consider anything outside the Yamanote Line to be backwater as gently caress. I’ll use countryside if I’m talking to, say, people on work calls who live in Europe, but if you’ve been to Japan, you’ll know it when you see it (where the only light visible at night is a pachinko parlor or a lone 7-11). Same as saying “flyover country” to other Americans.
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# ? Oct 14, 2023 06:04 |
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Btw it's time for Saijo Festival and Niihama Taiko Festival. The inaka parties hard.
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# ? Oct 14, 2023 11:03 |
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From https://jp.usembassy.gov/services/visas-japan-u-s-citizens/ "Japanese Immigration officials are aware of the pattern of people staying for 80-90 days as “tourists,” spending a few days in Korea, Guam or some other nearby area and then seeking to re-enter Japan for another 90 days. Persons with such a travel pattern can expect to face questions at Japanese Immigration and may be denied entry with the suspicion that they have been or will work illegally in Japan." Just wondering if anyone knows how strict things are these days in this regard. Also, if a 90 extension to a tourist visa without leaving Japan is possible (IIRC it used to be).
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# ? Oct 14, 2023 17:52 |
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If you are a citizen of Austria, Germany, Ireland, Switzerland, or UK you can apply for a visa exemption extension of 90 additional days. But yeah, if you stay in Japan for 3 months, leave and then come back a couple of days later under a new 90 day visa exemption it will raise flags for the border officials and it should. Edit: That doesn't mean they'll reject you but you may be questioned on how you are supporting yourself and may need to provide proof that you are in fact just a tourist (ie: itinerary, hotels booked in various locations, etc). Zettace fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Oct 14, 2023 |
# ? Oct 14, 2023 22:01 |
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LyonsLions posted:Tondemonai desu. The best answer ever
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# ? Oct 15, 2023 05:10 |
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peanut posted:Btw it's time for Saijo Festival and Niihama Taiko Festival. The inaka parties hard. Also Nada no kenka, which we are at right now. Saijo was a blast
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# ? Oct 15, 2023 05:12 |
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# ? May 28, 2024 16:02 |
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Hell yeah
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# ? Oct 15, 2023 06:13 |