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Baddog posted:Ehhh, I think maybe they didn't want to fess up to using a vpn, especially not if it meant having to do a research paper! It's not like kids without a VPN didn't have to do papers. They were the ones who brought it up, telling me they couldn't get to the sites I suggested since they didn't have VPNs. Had to accommodate that (and then most of them didn't cite anything anyway so, welp). Baddog posted:This https://www.pcmag.com/news/breaking-down-vpn-usage-around-the-world has 31% of china using a vpn (of internet users, so not the total, but I'm guessing even in the countryside a pretty large % are online now). There's no methodology here at all to back up the crazy sounding number. I remain doubtful. E: Going by internet user rate that would be about 300 million VPN users. It just doesn't make sense. There aren't that many people in China who speak English or other non-Chinese languages, what would they even be doing? Internet use in Korea isn't restricted but hardly anyone uses non-Korean websites just because of the language barrier. And I don't use Korean websites for the same reason. In any case since it's illegal there's no way to get real numbers so we are having a classic pointless conversation 
Grand Fromage fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Oct 9, 2023 |
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Oct 9, 2023 20:50
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Grand Fromage posted:It's not like kids without a VPN didn't have to do papers. They were the ones who brought it up, telling me they couldn't get to the sites I suggested since they didn't have VPNs. Had to accommodate that (and then most of them didn't cite anything anyway so, welp). This has been a major problem for me, too (not the VPN stuff, but the citation stuff.) I have had the same conversation over and over, "You have to cite this" "But, everybody knows it!" "Then it should be easy to cite" "but... but... everybody knows it!" And they aren't the actual common knowledge types of things like "Earth is a planet" that you actually don't have to cite. I know a part of it is they're high school students and high school students are dumb, but there seems to be a wall that's bigger than that. You look at Chinese university students outside China and it's one of their major problems, too. This paper for example, yeah it's about students in an ELIP and not a full university program, but it emphasizes that that was one of the things they really struggled with a lot more than other students. Chinese students also have a lot of trouble writing outside of a very specific framework, so what's probably going on is they have had one specific way to do things drilled so deeply into their heads that when ask them to do something differently or where they have to do it without following a specific script they get real nervous about it and kinda wont. I don't think most international programs are preparing them for this, either, but just really focusing on AP/A Levels and English scores so when they go abroad for college they have the scores but not the actually ability to do things in that environment. Chinese students, last I saw in some research (maybe it was this paper) have the lowest GPAs out of any other group of students from other countries, so it's a problem.
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Oct 10, 2023 01:11
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I never figured out how to get through to the kids about it. It's not like I enjoyed failing so many students but I could not get through to them that you have to cite your sources. We're in high school right now sure, it's not the biggest deal (plus your parents are just going to bribe the principal to not fail anyway, we both know this), but you do this poo poo when you get to your university in the US and you are hosed. That's why we're doing this! I'm trying to prepare you!
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Oct 10, 2023 01:20
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I tried to find statistics for how many Chinese students or International students actually do just fail but didn't have much luck outside of a figure from Australia (and Australia is a little bit of a special case) that didn't seem too reliable. It's a scary thought for them because if they're going to school abroad then that means they likely haven't prepared for the Gaokao. So if they haven't prepared for the Gaokao but then they fail out of college abroad and are just wildly unprepared then... What do they do? This is the main reason I've used things to check for plagiarism and blown up about it when it happens (it always happens), they are going to get completely hosed later if I dont. But you can tell a teenager how serious it is over and over and it probably won't matter but you just do anyway hoping at least once it affects something. Another big flaw that screws them over when they go abroad (and this is in the research too I'm not pulling it out if my rear end), as a part of the teacher centered education style of China, the teachers and sometimes parents are the ones making all learning decisions for the kids. They study what they study when they study it because they're told to study it then and the teachers will make absolutely sure they do. Like you have students going to school for 14 hour days, but a good chunk of that is "self study" where they're made to study. This isn't exactly bad, it's just bad for this because from all of that they never learned to motivate themselves or manage their own time since it was always done for them. Then they go to the UK/US/Australia. And, it's a thing everyone's seen where someone goes to college, suddenly has freedom, and just does nothing. That happens to Chinese students a lot more. Sometimes I don't even think it's that they're lazy but that they literally don't know what to do, they freeze, and then that just sorta withdraw into a cave. And if the international programs would consider these factors that aren't things you explicitly test for maybe it could be better, but that would require massive changes to a whole lot of things and parents would freak out because parents are the single most destructive force for most of them.
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Oct 10, 2023 01:57
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It's strange, the Chinese students were actually pretty consistently (enough for me to make note of it) some of the hardest working students in my school in the US, notably more than the other international students. Mixed on engagement in discussions and I never really read their papers, but their projects (which in my program were the focus of study) were nearly always the best done and most organized; they were honestly my favorites to work with. There were a couple of total washouts too but there were those for every nationality. I bet it depends a lot on the program of study, to be fair; not like I have a big sample size.
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Oct 10, 2023 03:30
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I worked at the writing center when I was in college so I saw a whole lot of Chinese student papers. Dire stuff most of the time. Prepared me a lot for when I ended up trying to head that off in high school though.
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Oct 10, 2023 03:46
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The duality stems, like so many things, from how much control people back home have. The trope of Chinese students being hardworking and no-nonsense is from the subset of them that have parents looming over their shoulders, even from halfway across the world. What's the split? God only knows - most US universities won't keep numbers on that because if they knew, they'd have to tell someone, and there's more ways for that to go wrong than right. Nobody wants to mess with international student enrollments in any way, because they are both very prestigious to get and make scads of money for the institution. Chinese college students are no different than any other college students in that way. It's their first time away from home, there's a giant, dizzying existence out there, and you want to stuff your face with as much of it as possible. The two primary ways students avoid this is to either have authority figures breathing down your neck or to be prepared well with both good habits and good learning. The primary difference is, Chinese international students are a lot less likely to have the latter because the habits and learning that serve you well in China are simply not the same ones that serve you well in Western universities. To be clear, this isn't saying one or the other is superior, but they're different enough that you're inevitably going to have to do catch-up work if you switch scenes. My sample size is from engineering disciplines and Chinese international students were almost invariably massive albatrosses on any project team, because things like "deadlines" and "citations" and "explanations" were largely suggestions to them, and they loved booze and floozies as much as any other high-life wannabe in college, so trying to drill into them that "i'll have it done Friday" means IT WILL BE COMPLETE AND READY FOR USE FRIDAY was all the harder. On source citation SPECIFICALLY, Chinese institutions of higher learning get busted almost monthly for making GBS threads out reams of low-quality papers that have fundamental flaws like not citing your sources or various low-quality source citations (circular citation chains, citations that have been debunked for decades, citations that don't say what you claim they say). But this has more to do with CCP meddling than the people who are publishing the papers, usually.
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Oct 10, 2023 03:58
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Koramei posted:It's strange, the Chinese students were actually pretty consistently (enough for me to make note of it) some of the hardest working students in my school in the US, notably more than the other international students. Mixed on engagement in discussions and I never really read their papers, but their projects (which in my program were the focus of study) were nearly always the best done and most organized; they were honestly my favorites to work with. There were a couple of total washouts too but there were those for every nationality. It is easier to notice the very good and the very bad The best student I ever had got a full ride to Stanford and is now working on getting more geothermal energy production up in Taiwan. Speaks five languages fluently (English, Chinese, Russian, Spanish, Taiwanese.) And also does professional level modern dance. He's an honest to god genius. I have another student who I caught writing the n-word in a notebook in 8th grade. I didn't know whose book it was and then I yelled at the class for an hour about it. He privately fessed up and said he would never do it again. He's going to med school now in the UK and is getting papers published in some journals. I then have...children of political families who got to pass because his aunt is the mayor.
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Oct 10, 2023 03:59
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Coolguye posted:The primary difference is, Chinese international students are a lot less likely to have the latter because the habits and learning that serve you well in China are simply not the same ones that serve you well in Western universities. To be clear, this isn't saying one or the other is superior, but they're different enough that you're inevitably going to have to do catch-up work if you switch scenes. My sample size is from engineering disciplines and Chinese international students were almost invariably massive albatrosses on any project team, because things like "deadlines" and "citations" and "explanations" were largely suggestions to them, and they loved booze and floozies as much as any other high-life wannabe in college, so trying to drill into them that "i'll have it done Friday" means IT WILL BE COMPLETE AND READY FOR USE FRIDAY was all the harder. Huh, that is really interesting. I was in an arts/tech focused program where to be honest while not completely irrelevant, deadlines/citations/explanations were all way less important than the quality of what you created at the end. I kind of came out of uni with a pretty low regard for the "Chinese students are poo poo" argument you hear online because it's absolutely not what I observed (and in my field the story seems similar in other unis), but now you say it I could very much see the skillsets that helped them excel there despite a general attitude of flubbing some other stuff being the same kind of thing where their strengths don't show and the issues are highlighted particularly in more STEM aligned programs. My uni was like, half or more international students and probably 20-30% Chinese so I could also see the administration having specifically tailored to accommodate them for the sake of the tuition, come to think of it. But I wouldn't want to handwave away the quality of what the students could do as just the uni giving them a pass; among them are some of the hardest working and most creative people I've known, and a lot of the projects spoke for themselves. Post graduation a lot of them have found the most success in US careers too out of the international students.
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Oct 10, 2023 04:34
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Had a Mooncake today, not bad. Densest thing I've ever felt maybe. Egg inside was good, gonna throw the rest of the box to my co workers see if any of them bite.
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Oct 10, 2023 04:39
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Dense is the best description of them I can think of. And I'm generally a mooncake liker.
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Oct 10, 2023 04:40
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Speaking of art and design specifically, I have no idea why this is or if my experiences are even representative in China on this, but I've actually found a ton of incredibly talented artists and art students in China. Not just technical skill (but there's a ton of that) but genuine talent. I was involved in all that back forever ago when I was in America too, even though I'm not an artist, there's a lot of talent all over in America, but it just comes at you out of nowhere in China. I don't think you'd see it unless you go looking though, it was a lot of very humble "oh yeah I guess you can see my portfolio, I'm still learning" as they then drop a hoard of masterpieces in the table. They get eaten alive just like they do in America (but in a different way), but, still, there just is a lot of artistic talent hiding under the surface here from what I've seen.
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Oct 10, 2023 05:00
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Tbf you could say “drat the artists here are good!” about drat near any culture and I’d believe you.
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Oct 10, 2023 05:01
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I think a most of it is academy culture (at least hagwons in Korea; my impression is it's similar in China?) meaning you get basically any kid that's vaguely artistically inclined drilling this stuff from middle school onwards. People talk down rote practice for learning a lot of stuff, but it's kind of vital in visual art and means a lot of East Asian kids have a base level of skill that to be honest even a lot of US-born art students don't have. That + a general attitude that you should be doing studies of masterworks until you actually know what you're doing, and only start exploring after that, whereas in the US you're encouraged to explore and do your own thing basically from the start, and you get a notable number of people that can pull off some very visually impressive stuff. TBH I really do think it's a system that's great for creating great artists. Yeah lots of people never take it further than toiling away in a hagwon, but lots of people absolutely do. There's also just generally, much more of an expectation for graphics and such to look nice, everywhere, that I think in part comes from more people having a base level of art skills.
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Oct 10, 2023 05:43
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yeah that is absolutely a thing that i remember from my time in china, and it's also very true in japan - if you have even a bit of artistic inclination as a kid, SOME adult in your life will notice and vigorously encourage you to start doing the basics of drawing a box, a barrel, etc 10,000 times early on, and will frequently try to pull a string or two in order to give you the time and space to do so. it's much more likely to be seen as a fundamental skill that you can make a career out of. in the USA, it's frequently seen as a worrying distraction from more important topics, or a method of self expression unto itself that shouldn't be restricted or formally trained. the american attitude is ridiculous simply because artistic talent is important to a lot of different disciplines even if you're not inking your own manga or scrabbling for furry porn commissions on twitter. further, the spatial sense you develop is helpful for tons of career pathways. just because there's assloads of struggling art institutes of [state name] graduates out there doesn't mean that architects can't benefit from being able to scratch things down quickly, that physicists can't benefit from sketching something to help reason about an experiment, or that hybrid disciplines like 3d modeler don't exist. artistic drill and fundamental cultivation is about one very simple thing: developing the muscle memory and hand-eye coordination to get whatever you are visualizing in your head out onto a piece of paper. that's a very broadly applicable skill. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 06:40 on Oct 10, 2023 |
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Oct 10, 2023 06:36
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as an artist myself, Korea is the only place ill get a tattoo. I have exactly one, went with my wife to this artist in Daegu, guy does cute little flowers and stuff, I gave him a picture of the spot art of the lizalfos from oot, people think that poo poo is a sticker all the time! I remember going to a cafe back in the day where there was all sorts of drawings posted on the wall, wow Koreans can draw cats! And not just draw them, but really good! Of course Kim Jung Gi came from here too. Back in America I dropped out of school on an art degree cause the whole message of basic art edu in the states was really mixed and mashed between conflicting philosophies, usually resulting in a very halfassed introduction to basic skills without the followthrough to make the highlevel realistic stuff. I remember being incensed nobody at my school knew or cared what mattepainting was, nobody there cared about constructive drawing to make cars or buildings. There was alot of life figuredrawing but it wasnt taught in a constructive manner, animals were out of the question. Sculptors seemed really skilled though. The pot explodes in the kiln if you gently caress it up. Similar vein you meet skilled musicians all the time in the states. I have done Concept Art in Korea, but Im thinking Koreans are going whole hog in on the AI slopfest so lately havent found any work of that nature. Compared to Japan, Korean scifi aesthetic is very massmarket MCU influenced. I was getting annoyed working for this last client because she wanted me to photobash everything, anything that was handpainted or had any gesture to it was a no no. So you hired a chef to make unseasoned chicken breast, and plastic wrap it like the stuff at the cornerstore? *furiously searches wikimedia* voila!
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Oct 10, 2023 09:44
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The most amazing thing: https://twitter.com/wentisung/status/1713403182184022407 https://twitter.com/wentisung/status/1713407606025494697  Need to hunt down an upload of the whole thing...
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Oct 15, 2023 08:11
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ronya posted:
did they edit a white guy onto the chinese actor for this part? 
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Oct 15, 2023 08:24
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my communism is NOT a costume
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Oct 15, 2023 10:24
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Lol china's like the most insane capitalist country on the planet, I wonder how they're gonna bowdlerize Marx to make him acceptable to xi jinping thought.
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Oct 15, 2023 13:13
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People of China, please try to be more marxist!! Er, what are you doing, no not like that oh poo poo
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Oct 15, 2023 13:34
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Youth Marxist groups were getting cracked down on in 2019 https://www.ft.com/content/fd087484-2f23-11e9-8744-e7016697f225
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Oct 15, 2023 14:33
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Marx's teachings were incorrectly translated from the original Mandarin. Correctly interpreted for example - "the means of production should be controlled by these people"
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Oct 15, 2023 22:45
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Yeah, China is communist in the same way a professional wrestler actually lives his gimmick. And the Tankies think it's real
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Oct 15, 2023 23:45
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Okuteru posted:Yeah, China is communist in the same way a professional wrestler actually lives his gimmick. Does this make Xi Xinping Hulk Hogan or Vince McMahon? Edit: gently caress it, make him Antonio Inoki.
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Oct 16, 2023 00:23
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BrigadierSensible posted:Does this make Xi Xinping Hulk Hogan or Vince McMahon? xi is the excellence of execution
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Oct 16, 2023 00:28
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Macho Marxist Xi Jinping
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Oct 16, 2023 06:51
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BrigadierSensible posted:Does this make Xi Xinping Hulk Hogan or Vince McMahon? we need a video of Xi standing on the Great Wall so we can edit it in to Hogan's "IT'S THE WALL IT'S THE WALL BROTHER" promo
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Oct 16, 2023 07:07
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I think the eyebrows and moustache are manipulated, it looks janky: https://streamable.com/1qj2js There's a point where Marx raises his eyebrows and instead they seem to split into two The great bushy beard might be a real wig though, being that someone in production cottoned on how much of a PITA it is to get the edge lighting correct. all in all it's impressive how vacuous 两个结合 is; it just requires all to solemnly intone that Xi Jinping Thought is the right way to fuse tradition with modernity and Chineseness with Westernness. The elements of that compromise are left as an exercise for the reader Say what you will about 1980s Nihonjinron or 1990s Asian Values discourse, at least they said something contrarian
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Oct 16, 2023 07:42
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ronya posted:I think the eyebrows and moustache are manipulated, it looks janky: A lot of the poo poo coming out of the ccp in recent years seems so incredibly tone deaf and reeks of there being no critical voices in any position of power, which I'm sure has always been a problem in China's massive authoritarian bureaucracies throughout history but it seems like xi has exacerbated the problem substantially.
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Oct 16, 2023 07:59
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not even close. you would need the delusion to carry on literally while the rebels are at the literal gates for it to match some of the imperials
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Oct 16, 2023 15:03
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bob dobbs is dead posted:not even close. you would need the delusion to carry on literally while the rebels are at the literal gates for it to match some of the imperials We don't talk about June 4
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Oct 16, 2023 15:09
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you can call deng xiaoping many things, but you couldnt call him deluded, and you could call the tienanmen revolt many things but you couldnt call it successful
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Oct 16, 2023 16:56
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bob dobbs is dead posted:you can call deng xiaoping many things, but you couldnt call him deluded, and you could call the tienanmen revolt many things but you couldnt call it successful the protesters in beijing didnt get what they wanted but the CCP did pause the economic reforms that lead to the protests nationwide. even if largely the same reforms went back into effect later, i think everyone can agree the southern tour went a lot better than late 80's
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Oct 16, 2023 17:04
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ronya posted:I think the eyebrows and moustache are manipulated, it looks janky: now i want to see real Confusious or Mencius put in a room with Marx and they all can understand each other and just see what happens. its one of those historical dinner parties from hell. now i just want more weird odd couple historical figure team ups. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Oct 16, 2023 |
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Oct 16, 2023 17:09
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Dapper_Swindler posted:now i want to see real Confusious or Mencius put in a room with Marx and they all can understand each other and just see what happens. its one of those historical dinner parties from hell. Lu Bu Meets Lucille Ball
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Oct 16, 2023 17:25
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Cool Kids Club Soda posted:Lu Bu Meets Lucille Ball ...in their new hit sitcom, "Do Not Pursue Lucy!"
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Oct 16, 2023 18:29
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Cool Kids Club Soda posted:Lu Bu Meets Lucille Ball I feel like a conversation between confusious and marx would start out ok and then devolve into screaming with marx inventing new ways to give the finger.
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Oct 16, 2023 18:48
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5er posted:...in their new hit sitcom, "Do Not Pursue Lucy!" It's Lu Tse.
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Oct 16, 2023 18:55
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A piece on the Belt Road Initiative 10 years later. The pattern is a large loan to a small nation protected by commodities or other strings, the country's leader gets a huge kick back, the nation gets substandard infrastructure and bad terms leading to crushing debt.quote:As the celebrations for the BRI’s 10th anniversary kick off, attending countries would do well to ask whether their citizens have anything to gain from 'win-win' cooperation with China, Elaine Dezenski writes. https://www.euronews.com/2023/10/17/cash-corruption-crumbling-dams-thats-chinas-belt-and-road-initiative-10-years-in
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