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Jimmy Smuts
Aug 8, 2000

Oscar Wilde Bunch posted:

One of those last tanker videos the guy went into how miserable fixing the T- series tanks are (and how much easier it to replace anything on western ones). Everything's in the worst place, anything that breaks is located behind more poo poo you have to first disassemble.
Do you have a link? As a guy who's worked on cars with critical parts put into poo poo locations, that fascinates me.

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Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


IIRC most Soviet vehicle maintenance/repair was supposed to done at large repair depots. If your tank breaks down, grab another tank we have plenty, someone will be along later to collect that one and take it to the shop. NATO seemed to care more about 'can three guys fix this in half an hour and get back to blasting'

e:

PurpleXVI posted:

Suitcase nukes for the GUR.

But really I think the majority of Russian industry is far enough from the border that short of ICBM's or invisible stealth bombers, Ukraine isn't hitting any of them short of the GUR getting in there with a lot of C4.
Pretty sure most Russian armor/tank production is still east of the Urals in Omsk, Chelyabinsk, and Nizhny Tagil which are a good 1000+ miles from Ukrainian held territory.

Kaiser Schnitzel fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Oct 13, 2023

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004

Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration
Nap Ghost
SecDef and the CJCS (now Gen. C. Q. Brown) gave an update after latest Ukraine contact group meeting. I have heavily edited for length and to remove I/P content. https://www.defense.gov/News/Transc...-chairman-gene/

Highlights:
-Air Defense and Artillery are the major items again, especially in preparation for winter, when Russia is likely to attempt to destroy critical infrastructure that provides heat and electricity in Ukraine.
-Germany donating another Patriot Battery and components/munitions.
-When asked, SecDef had no announcement on ATACMS


quote:

SecDef: ... Since Russia's unprovoked and all-out invasion last February, the United States has committed $43.9 billion to help support a free and secure Ukraine, and that includes our most recent Ukraine assistance package valued at $200 million.

And we're in great company. Some-50 other members of this Contact Group have committed more than $33 billion in direct security assistance to Ukraine. In fact, the three biggest European donors to Ukraine, Germany, the United Kingdom and Poland, have all committed more than the United States as a percentage of GDP, and so have many other European countries, including Croatia, Denmark, Finland, Sweden, and all three of the Baltic states. Together -- today, several countries briefed us on a new assistance packages for Ukraine that they have approved just in the three weeks since we last met in Ramstein.

And Germany will donate another Patriot system and additional Patriot missiles as part of a $1.1 billion package that includes 10 more Leopard A1 tanks, two more IRIS-T air defense systems, and Spain will continue its critical Hawk training mission and will donate additional Hawk equipment, and Sweden approved a $200 million assistance package, including critical artillery ammunition, and Bulgaria will donate components to help Ukraine strengthen its S-300 air defense system.

France committed to provide more CAESAR howitzers and to accelerate their production. The U.K. will provide a new package of aid, including air defense support, 155 millimeter guns and more. And Canada will invest nearly half a billion dollars over the next three years in Ukraine's armored vehicle capabilities.

And that just underscores the scope of the response from our allies and partners. It's another reminder of how badly Putin has miscalculated. Instead of demoralizing the Ukrainian people, Putin demoralized the Russian military. And countries everywhere have rejected Putin's vision of a lawless world where tyrants can invade their peaceful neighbors with impunity.

So we stand united to help defend the free and sovereign Ukraine and to help strengthen the rules-based international order that has made our world so much safer since the end of World War II. That's what this contact group stands for. That is what Ukraine is fighting for. And we'll continue to have their backs.

...

SEC. AUSTIN: ATACMS. I don't have any announcements on ATACMS to make today, but what I will tell you is what we focused on is what we believe Ukraine needs, and we believe that because these are the things that President Zelenskyy addressed today. He spoke of a need for air defense, additional air defense, ground-based air defense capabilities, and also artillery platforms and artillery munitions. And so that's been our focus, and we have throughout focused on what we know that Ukraine's going to need, and that focus, I think, has been very, very instrumental in making sure that we can -- that President Zelenskyy can protect his cities and also protect his troops. So we'll continue that work.

Woodchip
Mar 28, 2010

Kaiser Schnitzel posted:

IIRC most Soviet vehicle maintenance/repair was supposed to done at large repair depots. If your tank breaks down, grab another tank we have plenty, someone will be along later to collect that one and take it to the shop. NATO seemed to care more about 'can three guys fix this in half an hour and get back to blasting'

e:

Pretty sure most Russian armor/tank production is still east of the Urals in Omsk, Chelyabinsk, and Nizhny Tagil which are a good 1000+ miles from Ukrainian held territory.

Call Omsk information, they'll give you the number.

Hyperlynx
Sep 13, 2015

mlmp08 posted:

SecDef and the CJCS (now Gen. C. Q. Brown) gave an update after latest Ukraine contact group meeting. I have heavily edited for length and to remove I/P content. https://lof-staff-chairman-gene/

Much appreciated!

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


Subjunctive posted:

What weapons does Ukraine need to reach the tank factories?

A russian soldier and a cigarette.

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!
https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1712747812121612544

quote:

Sevastopol, a Russian Buyan-class corvette was spotted billowing smoke at the mouth of the bay, with casualties reported.

https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1712750488800665771

quote:

Small correction, appears to actually be a Bykov-class corvette.

https://twitter.com/KyivPost/status/1712743444416737340

quote:

Crimean Telegram channels reported that the Russian warship Buyan-M has allegedly exploded and is on fire in the temporarily occupied #Sevastopol.

#BuyanM is a modernised corvette with upgraded systems capable of launching cruise missiles (#Kalibr).

Russia continues to lose the naval war against a nation with no navy.

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1712748090585755850

quote:

Russian Storm Z detachments have lost 2,000 personnel in 3 days of the Battle of Avdiivka - Ukrainian soldier citing intelligence.

Also if that's even partway reliable, that's insane.

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007
Not long after Sevastopol the city burned, soon did Sevastopol the ship.

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!
https://twitter.com/KyivPost/status/1712762465631555721

quote:

Netherlands Holds Dutch Companies & Individuals Accountable for Crimea Bridge Involvement. 4 firms & 8 individuals guilty of EU sanctions violations related to Kerch bridge; 3 entities still under investigation.

I wonder what sort of legal repercussions an individual gets hit with after breaking EU sanctions. I would imagine the unfun kind.

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1712763116868481073

quote:

Ukraine attacks 3 Russian Black Sea naval ships in 2 days.

SBU confirms damage to a Russian "Buyan" missile carrier warship this morning in Sevastopol Bay, says it also attacked "Pavel Derzhavin" naval patrol ship two days ago, and attempted to attack "Alrosa" submarine using Sea Baby experimental naval drones:

"After the first detonation, Russian minesweepers and divers were unable to discover our know-how. Yesterday, the submarine "Alrosa" got lucky, managed to escape our developments so far. The carrier of cruise missiles "Buyan" could not repeat the "feat" of "Alrosa", therefore it was struck today during the Sevastopol raid by the experimental weapon "Sea Babies". The Security Service of Ukraine warns Muscovites that there is no need to go through Ukrainian waters if you want to preserve at least some remnants of your fleet," notes one of the organizers of the special operation.

Dang, almost a hat-trick. I would have laughed so hard if they totalled another Russian sub.

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug

PurpleXVI posted:

https://twitter.com/KyivPost/status/1712762465631555721

I wonder what sort of legal repercussions an individual gets hit with after breaking EU sanctions. I would imagine the unfun kind.

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1712763116868481073

Dang, almost a hat-trick. I would have laughed so hard if they totalled another Russian sub.

"Its happening again."

Murgos
Oct 21, 2010

CommieGIR posted:

"Its happening again."

C’mon Ukraine, you can do it! Give us another reason to post the meme.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

Kaiser Schnitzel posted:

IIRC most Soviet vehicle maintenance/repair was supposed to done at large repair depots. If your tank breaks down, grab another tank we have plenty, someone will be along later to collect that one and take it to the shop. NATO seemed to care more about 'can three guys fix this in half an hour and get back to blasting'

e:

Pretty sure most Russian armor/tank production is still east of the Urals in Omsk, Chelyabinsk, and Nizhny Tagil which are a good 1000+ miles from Ukrainian held territory.

It wouldn't surprise me if it's similar to their aircraft, each type having its own dedicated ARZ...or TRZ I guess.

Coquito Ergo Sum
Feb 9, 2021

Just Another Lurker posted:

An unmodernised T-64 hastily adorned with ERA blocks?

It looks more like a T-62 but I could be wrong. It's got that tall, flat back turret.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010
Popped up on my feed, is this guy credible?

https://twitter.com/IhateTrenches/status/1712764030249513333

quote:

I've seen a lot of poo poo these last 18 months.

But the sheer stupidity of RU actions in Avdiivka, Pisky area is astounding.

I've never seen such lack of disregard for soldiers. Running straight line human waves. Bodies stacked ontop of each other in fields, armor running over the deceased to get through.

The RU losses have to be extremely high. As in the thousands already and only from 3-4 days of fighting. And it's not just mobiks, it's vdv, dpr, & contract units. Just being thrown to slaughter in hopes Ukrainian positions run out of ammunition.

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1713102807203463567

Even the Russian sources seem to be going "oh my god this is a shitshow" while still trying to put a positive spin on it, other sources seem to be more accurately calling it a slaughter and it's definitely been an upsurge in footage of exploding Russian armor/vehicles, as well as some gnarly thermal footage of Russian infantry making the acquaintance of cluster munitions.

I don't know how generally reliable they are, but Avdiivka seems like a huge waste of Russian resources, just pissing away their reserves, and once they're done making GBS threads themselves there that's just going to mean they're short of troops/vehicles to actually cycle in where the Ukrainians are counter-attacking.

Just Another Lurker
May 1, 2009

Coquito Ergo Sum posted:

It looks more like a T-62 but I could be wrong. It's got that tall, flat back turret.

I don't have the knowledge for a definitive answer on that one. :tipshat:

Russian tank go boom. :blyat:

edit:

PurpleXVI posted:

...
I don't know how generally reliable they are, but Avdiivka seems like a huge waste of Russian resources, just pissing away their reserves, and once they're done making GBS threads themselves there that's just going to mean they're short of troops/vehicles to actually cycle in where the Ukrainians are counter-attacking.

Enveloping such a well built defensive position from the rear/sides is a good plan and infinitely better than frontal attacks.

It just looks to have fizzled out under Ukrainian fires.

Their good troops are gone/spread out piecemeal over the whole front and their technical support keeps getting blown up (every time that gets replaced it's a little bit worse overall).

Just Another Lurker fucked around with this message at 11:25 on Oct 14, 2023

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004

Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration
Nap Ghost

PurpleXVI posted:

just pissing away their reserves,

Do you have any indication this is the commitment of the commander’s reserve force, or are you referring to just any new formation coming out of refit or sunmer training cycle as “reserves?”

I ask cause it feels like the reserve might have been committed long ago and this is more that Russia has been building up new formations / refitting existing formations over the last recruitment and training cycle.

Cannon_Fodder
Jul 17, 2007

"Hey, where did Steve go?"
Design by Kamoc

Just Another Lurker posted:

I don't have the knowledge for a definitive answer on that one. :tipshat:

Russian tank go boom. :blyat:

edit:

Enveloping such a well built defensive position from the rear/sides is a good plan and infinitely better than frontal attacks.

It just looks to have fizzled out under Ukrainian fires.



I think that's what they've attempted per the sources I've seen. They just got their poo poo pushed in real badly in the south, crossing 8km of open farmland and getting smashed in the north.

Still, loving yowch. Good luck hiding this one, Russian Media

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004

Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration
Nap Ghost
A Ukrainian take on recent Russian offensive action.

It’s not a thread so should work for non-twitter users.

https://twitter.com/tatarigami_ua/status/1713236442804097160?s=46&t=fppHBZSlD4AbSz5pJxjFMQ

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!

mlmp08 posted:

Do you have any indication this is the commitment of the commander’s reserve force, or are you referring to just any new formation coming out of refit or sunmer training cycle as “reserves?”

I ask cause it feels like the reserve might have been committed long ago and this is more that Russia has been building up new formations / refitting existing formations over the last recruitment and training cycle.

Sorry, I meant a more general meaning of reserve as in just "resources they've got and haven't expended yet."

https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1713192932906320385

quote:

#Ukraine: The first confirmed loss of a Russian BTR-50 APC- this one was destroyed during the ongoing offensive on Avdiivka, #Donetsk Oblast. A damaged T-64BV can be seen nearby too.

The Russian troops started to receive these rather old APCs in February of this year.

That's an old piece of gear.

Modedit: Blurred corpses visible in the tweet so I put it behind a spoiler tag

Somebody fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Oct 15, 2023

Blind Rasputin
Nov 25, 2002

Farewell, good Hunter. May you find your worth in the waking world.

Youtube has more and more GoPro footage from Ukraine every day and I feel like the entire country, once so beautiful, has become a pockmarked burnt up desolate wasteland full of empty villages and fields scarred with trenches. How does a country ever repair damage like that after the war ends? It seems insurmountable.

Is it true Russia is using prisoners for troops? Because it sure feels like it. When they’re spraying rounds willy nilly they’re surely still dangerous, but the Ukrainian fighters seem to have figured out how easy it is to get them to flee. It really doesn’t take much to completely break the moral of the Russian troops. Ukrainians yell insults and throw a few grenades, their drones drop a few charges. Then the Russians scatter so quickly, all the time throwing their helmet and gun down and running away. In one video, clearly a Russian commanding officer walked over to two Russians hiding in the burrow of a trench being seized from multiple angles by the Ukrainians, threw the butt of a gun at them, yelled at them to quit cowering and fight. The two soldiers did get back on the trench line but did not seem to know what they were doing, at all.

Russia likes to artillery strike their own trenches as soon as Ukrainians take them over and my god how does anyone survive that just because they’re below ground level in a trench? I wonder about the physics of that. The over pressure and shrapnel just goes “upward” and so just ducking below ground level is enough to save yourself from it all? I cannot imagine the level of PTSD these Ukrainian soldiers will have after this war. The things some of them survive.. they’re all heroes every single one. I hope our financial support doesn’t end when the war does because if the videos on YouTube make one thing clear, the recovery will be harder than the war itself.

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!

Blind Rasputin posted:

Youtube has more and more GoPro footage from Ukraine every day and I feel like the entire country, once so beautiful, has become a pockmarked burnt up desolate wasteland full of empty villages and fields scarred with trenches. How does a country ever repair damage like that after the war ends? It seems insurmountable.

Some areas of the country may be no-go zones for decades. Parts of France are still "do not go here if you do not want to lose your legs"-territory due to World War One unexploded munitions pockmarked around the place. Humanity might not return to places like that any time soon, but nature largely will. Nature is hardy, even if the occasional sheep will probably lose a leg to a cluster munition.

Blind Rasputin posted:

Is it true Russia is using prisoners for troops? Because it sure feels like it. When they’re spraying rounds willy nilly they’re surely still dangerous, but the Ukrainian fighters seem to have figured out how easy it is to get them to flee. It really doesn’t take much to completely break the moral of the Russian troops. Ukrainians yell insults and throw a few grenades, their drones drop a few charges. Then the Russians scatter so quickly, all the time throwing their helmet and gun down and running away. In one video, clearly a Russian commanding officer walked over to two Russians hiding in the burrow of a trench being seized from multiple angles by the Ukrainians, threw the butt of a gun at them, yelled at them to quit cowering and fight. The two soldiers did get back on the trench line but did not seem to know what they were doing, at all.

In some way or another Russia has been using prisoners since mid last year, if I remember right. At first it was Wagner recruiting from prisons, and then Russia started making "Storm-Z" groups which consisted largely of prisoners. In both cases they'd get their charges cleared after six months of fighting, as I recall it, though the "Storm-Z" units also require one-year contracts. A number of surviving Wagner prisoner troops have returned to Russian society and, predictably, since a lot of them were guilty of "jail forever" crimes, they've started right back up on stuff like violent robbery and murder.

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004

Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration
Nap Ghost

Blind Rasputin posted:

Russia likes to artillery strike their own trenches as soon as Ukrainians take them over and my god how does anyone survive that just because they’re below ground level in a trench? I wonder about the physics of that. The over pressure and shrapnel just goes “upward” and so just ducking below ground level is enough to save yourself from it all?

Hitting the dirt is just so amazingly good for your life if artillery is coming in, and over-pressure decreases extremely quickly over distance. This is part of why where Russia has time tto prepare and really build out, they instead use explosive charges that can be line or remotely detonated instead of counting on artillery to destroy their own abandoned positions. Something like 98-99% of the lives saved by "C-RAM" are really saved by sense and warn, giving people a few seconds to hit the dirt before rounds impact rather than being saved by the gun shooting down incoming RAM.

The problem with it being extremely useful to hit the dirt when artillery comes in, especially if you have a trench or fighting position, is that it gives a well-trained enemy a chance to just direct-fire you to death or maneuver such that when you look up again, the enemy is on your flank or otherwise already engaging you.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Blind Rasputin posted:


Is it true Russia is using prisoners for troops? Because it sure feels like it.
Russia's use of convicts is official policy. They've recruited heavily from prisons with the stated promise of commuting sentences once the soldier has served their tour. Many don't make it, as they're shoved into meat reconnaissance roles, being driven into suicidally stupid assaults to allow more skilled Russian forces to identify strong and weak points in the Ukrainian lines for later exploitation. Those that do make it through are often forced back into another tour. Those that do somehow make it home have been documented as committing heinous crimes, often against the victims of their previous crimes.

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004

Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration
Nap Ghost
For those curious, this gets really deep into tech detail and modeling of blast/frag/etc injury. It does not include gore pictures or anything, just text descriptions of the types of injuries experienced at various ranges or phases of an event, including stuff like blast on a vehicle, movement within the vehicle, the vehicle leaving the ground, returning to ground, etc.

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/trecms/pdf/AD1192583.pdf

Just Another Lurker
May 1, 2009

mlmp08 posted:

A Ukrainian take on recent Russian offensive action.

It’s not a thread so should work for non-twitter users.

https://twitter.com/tatarigami_ua/status/1713236442804097160?s=46&t=fppHBZSlD4AbSz5pJxjFMQ

A balanced overview of it all so far.

-------

It's not a Pyrrhic victory if they don't care about losses and encirclement is eventually achieved. :Putin:

Fearless
Sep 3, 2003

DRINK MORE MOXIE


Cugel the Clever posted:

Russia's use of convicts is official policy. They've recruited heavily from prisons with the stated promise of commuting sentences once the soldier has served their tour. Many don't make it, as they're shoved into meat reconnaissance roles, being driven into suicidally stupid assaults to allow more skilled Russian forces to identify strong and weak points in the Ukrainian lines for later exploitation. Those that do make it through are often forced back into another tour. Those that do somehow make it home have been documented as committing heinous crimes, often against the victims of their previous crimes.

This is also occurring in an environment in which Russian police forces have been hollowed out by low pay, corruption and the war. Whatever Russia is marching inexorably towards, it's not going to be pretty when it gets there.

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May

Fearless posted:

This is also occurring in an environment in which Russian police forces have been hollowed out by low pay, corruption and the war. Whatever Russia is marching inexorably towards, it's not going to be pretty when it gets there.

Although I do hope it gets there soon, the Republicans are itching to ride to their rescue.

Murgos
Oct 21, 2010

Blind Rasputin posted:

Russia likes to artillery strike their own trenches as soon as Ukrainians take them over and my god how does anyone survive that just because they’re below ground level in a trench? I wonder about the physics of that. The over pressure and shrapnel just goes “upward” and so just ducking below ground level is enough to save yourself from it all?
Shrapnel and most of the energy from the blast goes in a straight line (or flat parabolic arc anyway) so, yes getting something between you and it is pretty effective most the time. Air bursting munitions and clusters are much more effective against open trenches and people lying prone but still have limits.

The Door Frame
Dec 5, 2011

I don't know man everytime I go to the gym here there are like two huge dudes with raging high and tights snorting Nitro-tech off of each other's rock hard abs.

mlmp08 posted:

A Ukrainian take on recent Russian offensive action.

It’s not a thread so should work for non-twitter users.

https://twitter.com/tatarigami_ua/status/1713236442804097160?s=46&t=fppHBZSlD4AbSz5pJxjFMQ

Ok, I don't really understand the significance of a regimental combat action being performed by the Russian military. So they've wrangled a thousand or so troops from different battalions into a single, self sufficient combat unit to take a city, isn't that the basic structure of an offensive operation like this?

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!
https://twitter.com/GirkinGirkin/status/1713256166552215787

Ukraine apparently captured an entire trench worth of VDV. Unsure whether this is because the VDV is generally overrated as a fighting force, the Ukrainians are just that good or most of the veteran VDV are now the Very Dead V and these are the rookies cycled in to keep an entire section of the Russian military from imploding.

Content Warning: No gore, but a few bloodied faces.

HolHorsejob
Mar 14, 2020

Portrait of Cheems II of Spain by Jabona Neftman, olo pint on fird
Jesus loving christ, the seriousness of the situation contrasted with the fact that they're loving duct taped together

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

The Door Frame posted:

Ok, I don't really understand the significance of a regimental combat action being performed by the Russian military. So they've wrangled a thousand or so troops from different battalions into a single, self sufficient combat unit to take a city, isn't that the basic structure of an offensive operation like this?

It belies the notion that they are stretched to the breaking point. Also, IIRC, this offensive had like 10 points of attack, so its not a single combat unit but rather a well coordinated combined arms assault with a number of different units that achieved initial surprise.

sexy tiger boobs
Aug 23, 2002

Up shit creek with a turd for a paddle.

TheDeadlyShoe posted:

well coordinated

Citation needed big time

Blind Rasputin
Nov 25, 2002

Farewell, good Hunter. May you find your worth in the waking world.

I get the feeling the higher ups think it’s well coordinated but the boots on the ground are the least coordinated humans ever.

iv46vi
Apr 2, 2010

Fearless posted:

This is also occurring in an environment in which Russian police forces have been hollowed out by low pay, corruption and the war. Whatever Russia is marching inexorably towards, it's not going to be pretty when it gets there.

That’s actually not true. The police is part of the security forces hydra that is well supported by the current government with pay raises and improved benefits. They are part of society that’s much better off now then before the war ( the other part is MIC). For obvious reasons authoritarian government needs them on their side.

Alan Smithee
Jan 4, 2005


A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

Blind Rasputin posted:

Is it true Russia is using prisoners for troops?
https://twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1615796879509557248

MH Knights
Aug 4, 2007

iv46vi posted:

That’s actually not true. The police is part of the security forces hydra that is well supported by the current government with pay raises and improved benefits. They are part of society that’s much better off now then before the war ( the other part is MIC). For obvious reasons authoritarian government needs them on their side.

Maybe the secret police. According to this article the regular police are burned out and paid less than grocery store clerks.

Turrurrurrurrrrrrr
Dec 22, 2018

I hope this is "battle" enough for you, friend.

Just Another Lurker posted:

A balanced overview of it all so far.

-------

It's not a Pyrrhic victory if they don't care about losses and encirclement is eventually achieved. :Putin:

Imagine capturing that dominant waste heap high just for the price of 45 BTR50's and T62's. Who wouldn't take a bargain like that?

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steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat

The police the regime needs to survive is the riot police, not the cops whose job is to prevent crimes, do admin etc

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