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me: i haven't played pyanodon before, lets do that also me, 10 hours later cowering behind layers of pipes and walls, punching biters because the 10 starter clips were spent long ago: Right, that's gunpowder sorted--wait ammo needs lead too? fffffffffffffffff
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Oct 17, 2023 01:29
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MerrMan posted:Ok, Freight Forwarding has presented me with a problem that I have NO idea how to solve: How do I get rid of steam? Titansteel, the end-game resource plate, produces 500 degree steam as part of its output: You could train it over to your nuke plant and shove it in those turbines. Set up some pumps to prioritize steam from the trains over steam from the reactor heat exchangers.
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Oct 17, 2023 01:46
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Jabor posted:You could train it over to your nuke plant and shove it in those turbines. Set up some pumps to prioritize steam from the trains over steam from the reactor heat exchangers. Yeah this is what I would do.
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Oct 17, 2023 01:48
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MerrMan posted:Ok, Freight Forwarding has presented me with a problem that I have NO idea how to solve: How do I get rid of steam? Titansteel, the end-game resource plate, produces 500 degree steam as part of its output: I’d slap down about 20 of those ground pounding radars that take like 500 kw per. Circuit up a power switch to turn them on if stored garbage steam exceeds X.
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Oct 17, 2023 01:55
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Yeah a nuclear plant with a steam battery is very cool for running mods which might have nuclear-steam byproducts I’ve got a set of six mundane steam generators on my vulcanite-processing world in this SpaceEx game to bleed off steam from the end stage of vulcanite processing, it builds up about a quarter tank over a day and then as soon as dusk gets near they switch on alongside the accumulators and consume that steam in like 20 seconds to try and slow the drain.
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Oct 17, 2023 02:13
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Zetsubou-san posted:me: i haven't played pyanodon before, lets do that Playing py is already crazy, but py with bitters is complete insanity.
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Oct 17, 2023 02:51
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MerrMan posted:Ok, Freight Forwarding has presented me with a problem that I have NO idea how to solve: How do I get rid of steam? Titansteel, the end-game resource plate, produces 500 degree steam as part of its output:
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Oct 17, 2023 03:05
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Jabor posted:You could train it over to your nuke plant and shove it in those turbines. Set up some pumps to prioritize steam from the trains over steam from the reactor heat exchangers.  Oh jeez I always forget steam is a liquid that you can load in to tankers. I just grabbed a nuclear blueprint - not sure what'll happen if I import external steam, if that's even plausible. It has tanks that measure steam levels so that might work.uPen posted:I’d slap down about 20 of those ground pounding radars that take like 500 kw per. Circuit up a power switch to turn them on if stored garbage steam exceeds X. Also might just do this to keep it running for now. Thanks for the suggestions! Been a while since I hit something in this game that totally stumped me. And that the answer wasn't just "tech out" or "scale out"
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Oct 17, 2023 03:07
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Jabor posted:You could train it over to your nuke plant and shove it in those turbines. Set up some pumps to prioritize steam from the trains over steam from the reactor heat exchangers. You'd also probably want to set up circuit conditions to only feed the reactors when the stored steam levels are low. I usually do that anyway, since reactors won't scale down based on how much power is needed. Unlike other power sources, they always run at full power (and consume fuel at the full rate) regardless of load, so feeding them while the steam tanks are already full is a waste of uranium. That's even more the case if you're feeding in additional steam from somewhere else.
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Oct 17, 2023 03:10
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Vizuyos posted:You'd also probably want to set up circuit conditions to only feed the reactors when the stored steam levels are low. Alternatively, just scale up your fuel rod production operations. What's a little wasted uranium?
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Oct 17, 2023 03:18
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Really the solution is to scale up the rest of your factory until you're using all the power.
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Oct 17, 2023 03:27
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God I fucking love Diablo 3 gold, it even paid for this shitty title
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If you’ve got steam tanks in your blueprint, and also circuits strung with conditions set, odds are that it’s set up to fill the tanks and stop feeding the reactors after. Wire the input pumps from the heat exchangers to always leave a sliver of empty space in the tanks and don’t wire the input pump from the Magical Space Metal so it always has a little space to fill. This will net you a minute reduction in fuel rod consumption, and Groovy Steel which never backs up from steam. Tangentially related offgassing gripe: I’ve got nitrogen as a byproduct on my space platform and Flare Stacks can’t be placed in space. It’s very low-volume and I’ve got the 200k capacity tanks from K2 but it honestly seems like it shouldn’t be hard to dispose of an unwanted gas in loving space, the challenge is usually in not disposing of wanted gases.
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Oct 17, 2023 03:39
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Steam's also used in coal liquifaction, if you happen to have some coal nearby and want more oil.
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Oct 17, 2023 04:55
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no steady supply of lead yet because fluid needed to mine it, power shortages because coke is needed in EVERYTHING, and now medium biters have turnt up
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Oct 17, 2023 05:25
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Zetsubou-san posted:no steady supply of lead yet because fluid needed to mine it, power shortages because coke is needed in EVERYTHING, and now medium biters have turnt up I tried doing Py with biters several times and eventually gave up. There are Youtubers who have done it, and the solution is pretty much to build self-contained mini factories with negative pollution output (like tree farms) and use those to prevent aggro. Also, dialing the evolution way down. PS: I'm still slowly chipping away at it without biters and 200 hours in, I'm close to [checks notes] unlocking cliff explosives.  
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Oct 17, 2023 06:03
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Yeah... I've tried Py a couple times and even without biters I ran into walls that bounced me. I understand the early game has been changed significantly, so the next time I feel like putting myself through pain maybe I'll try it again... but not with biters, lol.
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Oct 17, 2023 07:21
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Full py is like a multiple thousand hour modpack so I don't know if there is any combination of evolution settings that make any sense given that the pack is absolutely expected to be played with biters off. The early game is really cool and much smoother as the first science pack is pretty quick (by py standards) instead of several hours in. There are some really interesting logistics challenges since you get power-free slow filter inserters but no splitters for a long time. Also the alien life stuff gets integrated a lot sooner than before alternate energy was out. But goddamn some of the buildings are way too huge.
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Oct 17, 2023 18:40
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Another goon and I burned out really hard in the middle of a Py's run, and this is after we beat Seablock the year before. Things just sprawl massively out of control in Py's and some of the biological processes like bees or upgrading flora to higher tiers where it's a slot machine can actually go gently caress themselves for eternity.
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Oct 17, 2023 18:50
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Sooo I'm getting close to launching my first rocket, just waiting for space science to finish researching so I can build the satellite before launching. I want to try and build a bit more of a 'megabase' in this space before moving on, any thoughts on a reasonable SPM target? I'm thinking I'd be a fun change to plan out all my resource draws, build optimized blueprints for stuff etc while my current base builds everything I need but not sure if 250 or 500 SPM or what should be my target, any thoughts? This'll be the first time.ive built something like this, though I've launched rockets in older versions of the game.
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Oct 17, 2023 20:25
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meowmeowmeowmeow posted:Sooo I'm getting close to launching my first rocket, just waiting for space science to finish researching so I can build the satellite before launching. I want to try and build a bit more of a 'megabase' in this space before moving on, any thoughts on a reasonable SPM target? I'm thinking I'd be a fun change to plan out all my resource draws, build optimized blueprints for stuff etc while my current base builds everything I need but not sure if 250 or 500 SPM or what should be my target, any thoughts? This'll be the first time.ive built something like this, though I've launched rockets in older versions of the game. One rocket silo, fully moduled and beaconed, can not quite support 1000 SPM, as the maximum cycle rate is 61.417 seconds per rocket launch. So if you shoot for 960 SPM, you could support it with a single rocket silo if it's well optimized. Any higher than that and you end up needing to have multiple rocket silo's. Edit: I've always built out mega-bases in 900 SPM increments to avoid minor issues from preventing the target SPM. So for a 3 silo megabase I would do 2700 SPM science module builds. The Locator fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Oct 17, 2023 |
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Oct 17, 2023 21:03
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If we're talking about walking before running, 60SPM is usually the You Must Be This Tall To Know What You're Doing threshold at which point you can set a goal (or move on) based on much you feel like scaling the current map.
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Oct 17, 2023 21:12
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900/1800/2700 is also the throughput of belt tiers, conveniently.
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Oct 17, 2023 21:16
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zedprime posted:If we're talking about walking before running, 60SPM is usually the You Must Be This Tall To Know What You're Doing threshold at which point you can set a goal (or move on) based on much you feel like scaling the current map. My starter base is usually built for 120SPM when upgraded to yellow assemblers. Maybe I'm weird.
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Oct 17, 2023 21:52
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I've been building the base to a 60spm target if everything was yellow assemblers but I'm still on blue assemblers and haven't replaced belts/added alnes to support the throughput. Also need to get nuclear going well enough to build nukes or mass produce artillery to clear bites to get bigger resource patches as that's another main bottleneck at the moment. Is 900ish SPM a reasonably feasible jump from 60? Seems kinda big but I guess once everything is designed it's just plopping more and feeding it all. I wasn't planning on doing a beaconed build but could at least beacon the silo itself.
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Oct 17, 2023 22:29
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meowmeowmeowmeow posted:I've been building the base to a 60spm target if everything was yellow assemblers but I'm still on blue assemblers and haven't replaced belts/added alnes to support the throughput. Building a base that can do 900 spm is a pretty large logistical challenge. As an example, your 60 spm base consumes around 24 yellow belts of iron/copper ore. When you scale up to 900 you’re going to be consuming north of 350 yellow belts of just raw ore. Getting all that stuff from where it’s being mined (very far away and widely distributed to hit those numbers) into buildings to be processed is a lot of work. Slapping down enough buildings to get 900 yellow spm is easy, getting ~80k ore mined, processed and moved to the right place every 60 seconds is rough.
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Oct 17, 2023 22:43
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If you're not including modules and beacons you're probably going to burn out in the low hundreds from miner bloat, which is ok. That's kind of why I lean hit 60 first and see how you're feeling. Megabases are weird.
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Oct 17, 2023 22:47
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Modules are great, and the more SPM you make the more mining productivity grows. So you get more ore per miner, and the amount of ore you need decreases as you optimize. Also I say it once every few months, but Texuga TA Miners + Warehousing + Loader Redux should be a must have for anyone who builds mega bases. Being able to stamp down one giant building that covers a massive area is such a timer saver.
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Oct 17, 2023 23:09
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I was pretty anti-beacon until I tried building a megabase. My opinion now is that you absolutely should use modules, and you can get away with not using beacons but they make it easier to hit your goals. Consider some numbers: 900/minute of every science except military requires ~61 blue belts of copper plate, ~55 blue belts of iron plate, and 60 - 80 Assembler 3s for each science (except for blue science, which needs 144) and 6 rocket silos. Putting four Prod Mod 3s into every single science assembler and rocket silo changes that to 44 blue belts of copper and 40 blue belts of iron, but increases the number of assemblers by ~80%: red science goes from 60 assemblers to 108. If you then add just three beacons with two Speed Mod 3s for each assembler --- which is not a lot --- you only need a third of the original number of assemblers, e.g. 23 red science assemblers. This all applies to rocket silos, too, and you can get down to needing only 2 silos just by adding speed beacons. And the savings continue on from there! You can shave off another 10 blue belts of copper plate by using Prod Mods on your red and blue circuits, for example. uPen posted:Building a base that can do 900 spm is a pretty large logistical challenge. As an example, your 60 spm base consumes around 24 yellow belts of iron/copper ore. When you scale up to 900 you’re going to be consuming north of 350 yellow belts of just raw ore. Getting all that stuff from where it’s being mined (very far away and widely distributed to hit those numbers) into buildings to be processed is a lot of work. Yeah, the train throughput is ultimately what I struggled with. I think elevated rails would really help me with this, since it makes it way easier to do priority lanes.
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Oct 18, 2023 00:00
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450 is half a yellow belt (2 different packs per belt) and probably the next step after 60-120. My general process for scaling up is: 1) Get t3 modules/beacon research done. Set up a build to make modules, even if you can't feed it yet (you can't). Also expand mall storage for electric furnaces, assemblers, inserters, power poles, and belts. 2) (If applicable) Ensure the base is secured and that defenses are self-sustaining. 3) Expand power to about 10x whatever it took to get 60 SPM. 20x to be sure. 4) Start building outposts to smelt* iron and copper, and to make green chips. Build a bunch of mines to supply those. 5) Expand red-blue chips inside the main factory. This probably involves finishing up the oil build as well, which will take my first t3 modules. 6) Import green chips into the base from the outpost. If everything else was built right, this should start the t3 modules expanding in earnest. 7) Start on the real base. *Red belts feeding steel furnaces is just fine for this stage, it's easy to build a lot of them and they can get good throughput regardless. You probably won't bother replacing these in place, it's easier to just start stamping down moduled electric furnace lanes in new outposts as your needs expand. IMO the key to being able to scale up is repeatability. This means having standard stations for ore pickup, dropoff, smelting, and plate pickup/dropoff, other stations for commonly shipped bulk products (green chips, oil, plastic), etc. Once you have one build that can make 450/minute (or whatever number) of a pack it's just a matter of duplicating it and hooking up more inputs.
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Oct 18, 2023 00:45
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Power is another thing to consider with megabases. My last vanilla 2700 SPM base ate 21GW of power continuously. Beacons were half of that. In Megabase terms that's probably not terrible. I did that 100% with solar and accumulators. To give you an idea of what beacons and modules can do for your base, compare what your current 60 SPM green science build looks like now, and multiply that by 45 to get 2700SPM. So you have probably 6 assemblers so x45 would be 270 assemblers. Now, this is what the green science module in my 2700SPM base looked like (everything is slightly overbuilt by about 5% to prevent any shortfalls):  Yup.. that 270 assemblers becomes 25.
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Oct 18, 2023 02:11
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Hmmmmmm I appreciate all the input and thoughts, I'll launch my rocket, get my current base and layout to a true 60spm and then go from there I guess. From the numbers y'all are sharing beacons and modules does look attractive, and I guess a more interesting design problem than just slapping down an endless amount of my current layouts.
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Oct 18, 2023 02:26
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My initial try at a megabase had biters on and I burned out after a number of hours building perimeter that would probably make me question my life. Second attempt had biters off, and I went for the lofty 2700 goal right out of the gate. I don't have pro tips from a 10k base builder, but if you're doing this vanilla I can definitely say where I screwed up. * Number one reason for everything shutting down was train jams. In my ignorance I downloaded some blueprints that matched my 2-4 train spec. They're bad. The worst part is you won't notice how bad they are until you've got 80+ trains flying through the same intersections you copypasted that are all now timebombs. Then the hacks start and never stop. Whether you decide to use your own custom switched network or just download LTN you need good rail. * The second issue I hit was separating mining/smelting. There's literally no reason to have copper ore being lugged around. I don't know where I got the idea to separate the two, and maybe in a split network where you have massive dedicated trains on long ore runs back to central smelters serviced by smaller trains it'd be faster, but not on my network. Even though there was never a shortage of plates the sheer volume of train traffic made this slow down my base considerably. * Build a bot-based mall now. You can build another one later if needed, but a train-fed bot-based mall is easy to build with a small footprint. I relied on my old bus mall for far too long and I'd probably cut like 50 hours off the time I spent if I'd just had a centralized bot mall available as soon as I'd tapped all the initial resource points. * Nuclear-fueled trains should be your goal as soon as you can. Those are pretty much all the pain points I had. I run nuclear to the tune of 60-something reactors on a solar-powered circuit block that only feeds them when the steam runs low, so my initial uranium mine (especially now with all the upgrades) is effectively good forever and power is just a matter of stamping down more reactors. If you're going solar that's a whole other production chain to solve. I cannot recommend mods to massively increase your inventory (to fill with exosuits), and give bots a massive power capacity, highly enough. Oh, and my silly gimmick was not turning it on until everything was set up, which is an extra dumb challenge I don't recommend. 
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Oct 18, 2023 02:40
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From my experiences, running 2-4s is fine for the 900-1800 spm range but starts to fall over when you go for 2700+. You can do it, but it gets painful. Bigger trains = fewer trains to jam and overall less train-time on the network, as long as your network has the space between intersections to support them. Moving around larger stacks (e.g. ores -> plates) also helps reduce congestion, as well as reducing intermediate steps (e.g. smelt iron ore -> iron plates -> steel all in once place, instead of feeding a steel smelter from an iron smelter). Something you could try (I haven't done this, but really want to) is separating everything into two separate train networks: an "inner" one that moves plates and intermediates into the base, an "outer" network that just moves ores from mines to the middle, and in between is where all your smelters go (or if smelting at the mine sites, you just have belt or bot transfer and some buffer storage between the outer and inner networks). The idea here is basically that your ore trains don't need to ever interact with the part of the network that feeds the main base. Taking advantage of common resources between production chains can also help - you could import red + green chips + acid to a blue chip factory, or you could just import iron, copper, and coal into a factory that produces all three chips. (Coal liquefaction almost becomes a necessity at 2700+ unless you really cranked up the oil frequency/size in worldgen.) The natural and absurd endpoint of this is just importing every raw resource into a massive depot and moving literally everything else via belts, but this loses the advantages of repeatable design. The other bottleneck you will probably run into between 900 and 2700 is UPS. At some point, even with the recent(ish) optimizations to heat pipes, you just have to dismantle your reactors and go full solar. This is also where using beacons to massively reduce your entity count comes in big. Also, spidertrons. Automate them, and all the equipment, and (if biters are on) rockets. At the megabase/endgame stage you basically just want to stand in the middle and command spidertrons to do everything; your inventory would just be blueprint books and 3-6 remotes, depending on how you separate out the spidertron labor. Need to divide those into general task categories: -Landfill / Tree Clearing (you do not want your other spiders to clog up with wood) -Power/Rails -Mining outposts -Biter clearance -Production construction I would generally have the rail and miners combined, and the attack spiders would also carry bootstrapping supplies for the defensive walls, so they could clear out an area and then drop down a train station/logistics to build another wall segment (search my posts in this thread for more on that, it's pretty neat). e: Actually I went and dug that up, as well as a previous post on megabasing. Megabasing Thoughts Wall Design Xerol fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Oct 18, 2023 |
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Oct 18, 2023 03:03
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The split rail networks will get a lot easier once we have elevated rails.
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Oct 18, 2023 03:09
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Mailer posted:
I handled this in a way I've never done before (or since really), and it worked out well. After my initial 120SPM base was done I started laying rails south.. and south.. and farther south until I had patches of resources that would effectively last me the rest of the game due to a combination of size and mining productivity research. The original base was on automatic and just kept producing infinite science research at 120SPM while I worked on the new base. First, I set up the "hub" which was bot based and responsible for making everything and had a massive chunk dedicated to making solar panels and accumulators. I had over 10,000 bots laying down solar panels. To jump-start it and run everything while that was happening I put down a 20 reactor nuclear plant. This entire area was fed from trains that picked up ore from the west and north only. Next I moved down a fairly significant distance to the south and set up a dedicated east/west construction rail line. This rail had one task - deliver construction supplies and fuel to the science 'modules'. Each module had a construction rail stop and a fuel rail stop. On the south side of that rail line I started building the modules. Each science module was 100% self contained and had its own dedicated rail network. The only connection between the construction/fuel rails and the construction rails was via a small local robot network that took fuel from the fuel train to the science module trains. Each science module had its own dedicated mines each serviced by 4 x 1-4 trains. The number of mines depended purely on how much demand that specific module had for each ore (as wild rear end guessed by me, there wasn't any particular calculation done). Finally, there was another dedicated rail system above the construction/fuel rail that had the one job of collecting science packs and delivering them to the laboratory module in the middle. So when it was all turned on there were 9 distinct and separate rail systems. 1 for each science (I didn't build military science after the starter base). 1 for fuel/construction of the modules. 1 for science pack delivery. 1 for resources to the hub. By doing this all rail traffic issues were isolated to the individual science modules where they could easily be fixed as needed. Not a system that would work well with biters on, as the end result was an incredibly large sprawling footprint of a base with a far reaching array of mines served by different rail networks that didn't cross.
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Oct 18, 2023 04:24
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You can run ‘split’ networks where the automated trains never cross over but there is a connection, to allow your personal construction train(s) to travel to any location on command. It’s been awhile since I tried to run enough trains to need a split network but we had no problems with crossover and freely ran the various FARLs and donkey trains wherever we needed to go.
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Oct 18, 2023 05:51
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My molten casting build is finally done thank gently caress*   *except for nickel but I'm going to have to put it somewhere else because I'm out of room
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Oct 18, 2023 05:52
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Xerol posted:Something you could try (I haven't done this, but really want to) is separating everything into two separate train networks: an "inner" one that moves plates and intermediates into the base, an "outer" network that just moves ores from mines to the middle, and in between is where all your smelters go I always do this. The ore network expands in two cardinal directions and the base expands in the other two. Eg my trains will all leave to the north/west, my smelter stacks stack vertically north, and my inner network runs south/east to deliver plates, coal, bricks, and steel to all the production blocks.
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Oct 18, 2023 13:10
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I've got the itch pretty bad, but my Freight Forwarding buddy is off playing Wizard With A Gun. Any recommendations for a nice, light overhaul mod? Something more on the scale of Freight Forwarding than, say, Krastorio 2. Maybe 248k or Exotic Industries?
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Oct 18, 2023 19:17
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Solumin posted:I've got the itch pretty bad, but my Freight Forwarding buddy is off playing Wizard With A Gun. Any recommendations for a nice, light overhaul mod? Something more on the scale of Freight Forwarding than, say, Krastorio 2. I enjoyed 248k, but I'm not sure how light it is compared to K2 these days, more different and focused on power with an extended end-game that requires massive scaling of that power. I never finished it, not because it was bad or anything but just because life got in the way and I never got back to it.
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Oct 18, 2023 19:46
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