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fatherboxx)
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ethanol posted:I missed this post earlier but my question from weeks ago was answered: I'm sure some much smarter people here can correct me, but I remember reading that the prescribed method of pushing vehicles through a minefield is to remain in single file. That way, you're minimising the area you're interacting with and, while you might lose vehicles, you only lose the lead one each time. That every mine hit was met with everyone else leaving the file and trying to get around it stuck out to me. It's one of those counter intuitive things that you need to train people to do under pressure.
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Oct 16, 2023 23:21
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Snowman_McK posted:I'm sure some much smarter people here can correct me, but I remember reading that the prescribed method of pushing vehicles through a minefield is to remain in single file. That way, you're minimising the area you're interacting with and, while you might lose vehicles, you only lose the lead one each time. That every mine hit was met with everyone else leaving the file and trying to get around it stuck out to me. It's one of those counter intuitive things that you need to train people to do under pressure. Generally a breach of a minefield will be multiple, single file lanes. The biggest factor limiting a breach is the amount of clearance/engineer assets you commit to it. The rule of thumb for a breaching element is 50-80% casualties. Also, LOADS of artillery/air support to suppress and provide smoke, massive overwatch of tanks for support by fire, and a follow on element to secure gains on the far side. Edit: and if the vehicle ahead eats it, you need a vehicle behind it big enough to shove it out of the way.
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Oct 16, 2023 23:58
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ethanol posted:I guess the answer was they'll just drive over their own mines Those are not their own mines. They are Ukrainian.
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Oct 17, 2023 00:06
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Dirt5o8 posted:Generally a breach of a minefield will be multiple, single file lanes. The biggest factor limiting a breach is the amount of clearance/engineer assets you commit to it. The rule of thumb for a breaching element is 50-80% casualties. There you go. I wasn't a million miles away but thank you very much for that. I assume that breaking single file is still very much something you don't do?
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Oct 17, 2023 00:14
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Snowman_McK posted:There you go. I wasn't a million miles away but thank you very much for that. I assume that breaking single file is still very much something you don't do? Well, sometimes you can't avoid it so you hit the gas and pray. If you can manage it, you at least try to have rollers on all the vehicles in the initial breach so they can survive at least one hit. The enemy can also re-seed the minefield behind you with artillery laid mines also. So a back-up clearance unit is nice to have Let me caveat by saying my experience is completely U.S.-focused and I've never done a real breach outside of training. I have done route clearance and dealt with IEDs/mines before though.
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Oct 17, 2023 00:24
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A recent Perun video went into some depth on the issues with the Russian minefields blocking the southern offensive. A 'blocking' minefield as prescribed in both NATO and Soviet doctrine is X deep with Y density of mines.. A tank driving in a straight line through the field would drive over 6-7 mines on average, more than enough to force the enemy to use mine-clearing assets or go around. This is a sensible minefield, an efficient use of resources which preserves your supply of mines for later after the enemy inevitably forces its way through or simply goes around. The Russian minefields used in the south are both much deeper and denser, with every variety of mine that's ever been invented packed in there just to make things miserable. Going in a straight line through the field involves driving over dozens of mines. In some cases, they've even double stacked anti-tank mines on top of one another to ensure that any mine roller is completely destroyed.
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Oct 17, 2023 00:48
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:A recent Perun video went into some depth on the issues with the Russian minefields blocking the southern offensive. A 'blocking' minefield as prescribed in both NATO and Soviet doctrine is X deep with Y density of mines.. A tank driving in a straight line through the field would drive over 6-7 mines on average, more than enough to force the enemy to use mine-clearing assets or go around. This is a sensible minefield, an efficient use of resources which preserves your supply of mines for later after the enemy inevitably forces its way through or simply goes around. The descriptions of the southern minefields heavily* imply to me that Russia might have plans for an eternal DMZ situation. *caveat as vast as the Siberian taiga: this assumes the government or military of Russia has put foresight into any part of this
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Oct 17, 2023 00:58
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Rusi report tracking North Korean ammunition deliveries to Russia: https://rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/report-orient-express-north-koreas-clandestine-supply-route-russia I would assume that given the tracking of the ships involved military intelligence probably has a good upper/lower limit of how much ammunition has been shipped?
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Oct 17, 2023 02:26
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I wonder if anyone has ever tried to make a massive (like, multihundred ton) roller to breach minefields, like, at some point it can be big enough to just shrug off any mines that it rolls over. Quick googling says no.
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Oct 17, 2023 02:52
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There's always flail tanks, though those only get deployed when you can throw away the tanks but not the drivers
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Oct 17, 2023 02:55
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I'm sure there's been a proposal written up somewhere for clearing minefields using nuclear weapons.
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Oct 17, 2023 02:59
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The Lone Badger posted:I'm sure there's been a proposal written up somewhere for clearing minefields using nuclear weapons. A general rule of thumb is that for every thing that can be done, people in both the US and Soviet militaries proposed using nukes to do it more efficiently sometime between the 50's and 70's Demolition and land-clearance (Which includes tunnel building) being the most obvious but also: -Altering climates to make warm weather farming possible in arctic circle cities -Detonating several nukes on the moon just because gently caress You that's why -Spacecraft propulsion -Weaponized tidal waves, no one can trace it back to us just trust me bro
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Oct 17, 2023 03:37
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Tehdas posted:I wonder if anyone has ever tried to make a massive (like, multihundred ton) roller to breach minefields, like, at some point it can be big enough to just shrug off any mines that it rolls over. Tsar tank would suffice.
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Oct 17, 2023 03:38
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tbf spacecraft propulsion genuinely isn't a terrible idea.
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Oct 17, 2023 04:02
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Wouldn't a Daisy Cutter create a large enough explosion to detonate mines without having to go nuclear?
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Oct 17, 2023 04:23
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DarklyDreaming posted:A general rule of thumb is that for every thing that can be done, people in both the US and Soviet militaries proposed using nukes to do it more efficiently sometime between the 50's and 70's Let's not forget, propulsion for cruise missiles. The new Russian missile isn't the first time they've tried it. The US had a program for it too in the 60s. Basically it allowed you to fire a cruise missile with unlimited range that could fly fast as all hell and low enough to avoid radar detection.
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Oct 17, 2023 04:34
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Charliegrs posted:Let's not forget, propulsion for cruise missiles. The new Russian missile isn't the first time they've tried it. The US had a program for it too in the 60s. Basically it allowed you to fire a cruise missile with unlimited range that could fly fast as all hell and low enough to avoid radar detection. didn't that one have radioactive material in the exhaust so fallout would rain down from its flight path?
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Oct 17, 2023 05:31
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:didn't that one have radioactive material in the exhaust so fallout would rain down from its flight path? Yup. Once the missile delivered its payload (the delivery vehicle would stay intact) it would just continuously fly over the enemy territory spewing radiation. I think Tom Scott did a video about the nuclear engine that was prototyped and built.
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Oct 17, 2023 05:58
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:didn't that one have radioactive material in the exhaust so fallout would rain down from its flight path? Yeah, I remember hearing this recent Russian one being announced and thinking "wait, isn't this just project Pluto?"
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Oct 17, 2023 07:03
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Russians claiming an airfield was ATACMd
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Oct 17, 2023 07:34
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Russians claiming an airfield was ATACMd https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1714165868316299322?t=fLuRVkpSALh5lrEe9qwRtg&s=19 Source is Fighterbomber tg channel so far
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Oct 17, 2023 09:01
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Russians claiming an airfield was ATACMd FIRMS indicates a smoking incident at Berdyansk airport.
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Oct 17, 2023 09:03
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That is within Storm Shadow and Ukrainian 'drone' range, though if it is indeed ATACMS I will be glad they are being used before being officially announced.
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Oct 17, 2023 09:40
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Tehdas posted:I wonder if anyone has ever tried to make a massive (like, multihundred ton) roller to breach minefields, like, at some point it can be big enough to just shrug off any mines that it rolls over. I remember serious documentary*, Die Another Day**, had the villain attempted to cross a minefield into South Korea with an army of Hovercraft on the basis that they wouldn't set off the mines. Then the Korean Colonel's his DNA changed so he looks like an English guy, pretends to be an old money industrial billionaire and invents a laser satellite so he can use that to blow up the minefield between North and South Korea. So that's two options that we can try. * = Say what you will about the later two Brosnan Bond films, I think they are all much better Bond films than 80% of Daniel Craig's films. At least they are having fun and not self loathing about being a Bond film. ** = Should have used the original title, Death Waits For No One!
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Oct 17, 2023 10:48
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:A recent Perun video went into some depth on the issues with the Russian minefields blocking the southern offensive. A 'blocking' minefield as prescribed in both NATO and Soviet doctrine is X deep with Y density of mines.. A tank driving in a straight line through the field would drive over 6-7 mines on average, more than enough to force the enemy to use mine-clearing assets or go around. This is a sensible minefield, an efficient use of resources which preserves your supply of mines for later after the enemy inevitably forces its way through or simply goes around. War in Ukraine CE: a sensible minefield
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Oct 17, 2023 10:58
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Owling Howl posted:FIRMS indicates a smoking incident at Berdyansk airport. What's there: https://twitter.com/bradyafr/status/1707847715789672710#m Note that they do sound somewhat well-protected.
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Oct 17, 2023 12:18
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OddObserver posted:What's there: Supposedly we're sending the cluster bomb ATACMS first. Those are made for hitting airfields. Russia uses a lot of revetments to protect aircraft, but there's no top cover at all.
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Oct 17, 2023 12:35
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OddObserver posted:Note that they do sound somewhat well-protected. In theory. They had significant air defenses in the area and the helicopters were picture somewhat spaced out lengthwise down the runway - in pairs. Ammunition was stored just off the airstrip in revetments rather than simply piled nearby. In practice Russian air defenses have had a lot of trouble engaging ballistic threats like HIMARS, cruise missiles like stormshadow, and low level drones. A helicopter sitting in the open with no revetments is a pretty soft target for fragmentation, particularly if they kept them fueled and/or combat loaded. mllaneza posted:Supposedly we're sending the cluster bomb ATACMS first. Those are made for hitting airfields. Russia uses a lot of revetments to protect aircraft, but there's no top cover at all. The helicopters didn't appear to have revetments at all, just spaced out down the length of the runway.
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Oct 17, 2023 12:39
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Is that some sort of balance for quick deployment vs safety or just Russia being lazy/oblivious?
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Oct 17, 2023 12:43
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Two words: nuclear panjandrum
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Oct 17, 2023 12:52
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They probably got hit by drones and the Russians want to write off such a severe loss as an excuse to escalate.
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Oct 17, 2023 13:12
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Young Freud posted:They probably got hit by drones and the Russians want to write off such a severe loss as an excuse to escalate. Escalate what and how?
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Oct 17, 2023 13:33
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“Ok gloves off now we’re REALLY gonna start feeding troops into the meat grinder!”
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Oct 17, 2023 13:36
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Ukrainians are much like killbots; they’ve got a preset maximum of Russians they can kill, so Russian leadership will bravely send wave after wave of their own men into Ukrainian killing fields until they reach their limit and shut down!
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Oct 17, 2023 13:41
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Young Freud posted:They probably got hit by drones and the Russians want to write off such a severe loss as an excuse to escalate. Is that when they send in the real army that they've been hiding somewhere? They've already done every sort of war crime possible at this point, what is there to escalate?
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Oct 17, 2023 14:13
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Ukraine claiming 9 copters, a SAM, an ammo dump and runway damage. https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1714228403635683789
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Oct 17, 2023 14:22
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https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1714258740684157116?t=z4paobhl5qaBSf-jUpPO0Q&s=19 ATACMS arrived apparently.
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Oct 17, 2023 14:37
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Gervasius posted:ATACMS arrived apparently. Making the announcement in style and with a bang. I suppose there really was no way for Russia to have predicted or prepared for this.
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Oct 17, 2023 14:53
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Fairly grounded take on what's going on at Adivvka by Tatarigami_UA. https://twitter.com/Tatarigami_UA/status/1713921466910081372 I like this guy as he does not seem to get carried away with either doom and gloom for Ukraine or silly optimism about an impending Russian collapse. quote:Summary of Avdiivka Situation as of 2023-10-16. Thread: quote:This year has shown the challenge of breaching well-prepared defenses without a significant and overwhelming advantage in both quality and quantity. Hopefully world events and election results in the West don't play into Russia's hands.
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Oct 17, 2023 14:59
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 20:45 |
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https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1714289830778315207quote:The military launched 18 missiles at targets in occupied Berdyansk and Luhansk, the official said. e: AP quotes a US official confirming their use. https://twitter.com/seungminkim/status/1714286468179595583 Moon Slayer fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Oct 17, 2023 |
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Oct 17, 2023 15:45
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