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Debian is a bit different. More conservative, more packages, fewer people who can do the work, and no dictator to make a mandate. It's good that Grohne is moving ahead and I wish him luck.
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Oct 18, 2023 09:00
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FlapYoJacks posted:https://www.phoronix.com/news/Debian-Repeats-Merged-Usr-Block some real power-thinkers in the phoronix comments quote:Ahh how cute, the PlayStation/Xbox generation of developers has taken over the world. Their next proposal will be, "we need to change the name from /usr to /user and stop using the silent 'e'." quote:You want to be treated in a mature manner, act in one. You want to be treated like an idiot, ditto. I'm happy to oblige either way.
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Oct 18, 2023 09:37
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I admit to reading the Phoronix comments on some articles for my own amusement, but they are always just so mind numbingly dumb. Not even funny dumb.
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Oct 18, 2023 11:39
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scratches an old slashdot itch a lot of the time though, they're always angry about something.
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Oct 18, 2023 11:48
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I am still upset that the solution wasn't to make /usr a symlink to /. Simpler IMO. But it is funny that modern Linux systems have scar tissue from a Bell Labs machine running out of disk space in the 70s.
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Oct 18, 2023 11:58
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i prefer / be something of a fixed size that never grows after the initial os install is done. not even after adding ~200 packages after cloning the lun from the gold image to personalize the new system for its function. lvm / is gross and wrong because it opens a lot of exciting new failure modes that are really annoying to recover from. a standard / partition with lvm /var, /opt, /tmp, /home, AND /usr is the way. merged /usr into / is dumb.
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Oct 18, 2023 12:26
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fresh_cheese posted:i prefer / be something of a fixed size that never grows after the initial os install is done. not even after adding ~200 packages after cloning the lun from the gold image to personalize the new system for its function. What is the value of never adding subdirectories to /? And why does the same not apply to /usr?
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Oct 18, 2023 12:29
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It's pretty normal to drop an /app directory in the root of a container's file system since its a single purpose thing.
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Oct 18, 2023 12:51
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Athas posted:What is the value of never adding subdirectories to /? And why does the same not apply to /usr? add all the subdirs you want to / im not your mother? i would prefer they are their own fs mounts if theres gonna be more than a static config file in there. the point is to be able to boot the system into a state more capable than the initrd provides when lvm cant find all the physical volumes. if / is essentially static enough you can pretend its RO ish and recovery is a lot easier since you have more tools for diagnosis. /usr, /var, /opt, /tmp, and /home all grow as you add packages to a system. /bin, /lib, and /etc very much less so. honestly i really want pxe boot ro / with nfs everything else - olde diskless workstation style - just with san or iscsi instead of nfs.
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Oct 18, 2023 12:55
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the five gobo linux users feeling pretty smug rn
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Oct 18, 2023 13:09
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if lenny hadnt put all of systemd into /usr it wouldnt even be an issue. why TF did he do that anyway? just to be an rear end in a top hat and force the issue because of opinion stuff or was there actually a technical justification behind that decision?
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Oct 18, 2023 13:25
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Oct 18, 2023 14:02
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the justification is that the read-only os lives in /usr and the read-write system state lives in /etc /var /home /opt /root and so on. we don't use single-user rootfs-only rescue boots any more grandpa, we have these things called live usbs that have full desktop environments now, and most broken server installs are fixed by executing an automated reprovisioning operation from some central management server. come on, let's get you back to the retirement home.
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Oct 18, 2023 14:21
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Sapozhnik posted:why does your distro/desktop not use udisks, it's been the standard for something like 10 years now do i look like i know what a udisk is? i just want an image of a got-dang hard drive.
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Oct 18, 2023 14:43
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rescue media? you rely on booting rescue media? loooooool okay. i hope that continues to work for you.
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Oct 18, 2023 15:01
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go back to slashdot
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Oct 18, 2023 17:11
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just put everything under /c
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Oct 18, 2023 18:14
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fresh_cheese posted:rescue media? you rely on booting rescue media? dark souls font hand tipped
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Oct 18, 2023 18:20
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Oct 18, 2023 18:36
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Tankakern posted:go back to slashdot
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Oct 18, 2023 18:36
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Eeyo posted:do i look like i know what a udisk is? i just want an image of a got-dang hard drive.
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Oct 18, 2023 19:09
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Grml has been a life saver for those moments when a super important computer connected to €€€ of machines eats itself. loving SEM will be the death of me one day, but at least I look like Gandalf arriving at Helm's Deep.
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Oct 18, 2023 19:56
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Eeyo posted:do i look like i know what a udisk is? i just want an image of a got-dang hard drive. lol
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Oct 18, 2023 21:15
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Eeyo posted:do i look like i know what a udisk is? i just want an image of a got-dang hard drive. lol
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Oct 18, 2023 21:20
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Eeyo posted:do i look like i know what a udisk is? i just want an image of a got-dang hard drive.
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Oct 19, 2023 08:15
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FlapYoJacks posted:https://www.phoronix.com/news/Debian-Repeats-Merged-Usr-Block I don't understand, the last few debian versions have already had everything in /usr with a bunch of symlinks in / is the goal to get rid of the symlinks too? fresh_cheese posted:also gently caress whoever made smart “ a thing. do not loving change my “ to some other identical “ which also prevents example code from running. remember when some people thought that ``quote" or ``quote'' didn't look like total dogshit when writing in plain ascii
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Oct 19, 2023 08:25
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BattleMaster posted:remember when some people thought that ``quote" or ``quote'' didn't look like total dogshit when writing in plain ascii Works On My DEC Terminal (tm)
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Oct 19, 2023 09:43
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BattleMaster posted:I don't understand, the last few debian versions have already had everything in /usr with a bunch of symlinks in / It's more complicated, partly for hysterical reasons, partly because of Debian's commitment to making distribution upgrades happen via package manager. See https://lwn.net/Articles/933043/ for some examples. PT_INTERP is a gently caress.
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Oct 19, 2023 11:11
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BattleMaster posted:
id be fine with that. all i really want is to be able to have a simple partition with a minimum system install on it, with an “everything else” lvm-like region that goes with it. everything you add post installation goes in the lvm managed area. im not emotionally attached to /usr , i just want to keep this distinction between the parts of the system that support the shell , devices, and file system management vs everything else. BattleMaster posted:
its probably obvious i dont really give a rats rear end about typography. im happy other people like typography because they make cool stuff, but cramming magic typography transformation logic into every possible rendering of text is a poo poo idea. magic quotes in a wysiwyg editor? awesome. magic quotes in a shell in xterm? noooooooooo bad plan.
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Oct 19, 2023 11:24
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Antigravitas posted:It's more complicated, partly for hysterical reasons, partly because of Debian's commitment to making distribution upgrades happen via package manager. why the hell did everyone decide to merge / into /usr instead of the other way round? /usr was the hack, get rid of that, dont put everything in it?
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Oct 19, 2023 11:43
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fresh_cheese posted:why the hell did everyone decide to merge / into /usr instead of the other way round? /usr was the hack, get rid of that, dont put everything in it? Best idea is what NixOS does, but second best is this. Deletion to /usr.
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Oct 19, 2023 12:30
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the Linux/Unix file system layout doesn’t make sense and never did
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Oct 19, 2023 15:31
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fresh_cheese posted:why the hell did everyone decide to merge / into /usr instead of the other way round? /usr was the hack, get rid of that, dont put everything in it? i think this was around the time where everyone universally agreed to putting all envs in there
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Oct 19, 2023 15:50
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envs? what?
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Oct 19, 2023 16:07
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akadajet posted:the Linux/Unix file system layout doesn’t make sense and never did agreed
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Oct 19, 2023 17:02
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which is why we're all so emotionally invested in fixing it
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Oct 19, 2023 17:03
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i like the BSD layout 
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Oct 19, 2023 17:26
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I guess my distro doesn’t use /usr either? I type typing “c:\/usr” and it keeps telling me the path is not found???
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Oct 19, 2023 17:33
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Mr. Crow posted:i like the BSD layout Sorry you had to find out this way, but it is bad.
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Oct 19, 2023 17:43
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fresh_cheese posted:why the hell did everyone decide to merge / into /usr instead of the other way round? /usr was the hack, get rid of that, dont put everything in it? because to users the immutable system image is the least relevant thing to access, and generally having / be anything but mount points means you can't look at a path prefix and tell what you're dealing with. tbh it'd make way more sense to mount the logged in user's home dir as / if we're tossing random poo poo there.
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Oct 19, 2023 17:47
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