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LazyMaybe posted:"And have the certainties of sight, emotion, faith, and touch… It gets a little better if you have the post-game conversation with her back at Ranni's Rise where she spells out what she intends in much more literal terms but yeah, even so.
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Oct 18, 2023 01:39
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My interpretation of Ranni's ending is there's this girl named Trouble and she's offering you a ride out of town after you're done blowing this popsicle stand.
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Oct 18, 2023 02:11
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I assume the Ranni ending is roughly the intended 'canon' ending since it's the easiest major questline to get into and it has the most people directly involved with it in a fairly significant way. Sure, you could argue that the Frenzied Flame is one as well, but Ranni's is filled or linked with almost every character, and definitely every major character, and has a direct lineage connection, too. Plus, she's on the cover of the Books of Knowledge Volume I
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Oct 18, 2023 02:23
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dialhforhero posted:I assume the Ranni ending is roughly the intended 'canon' ending since it's the easiest major questline to get into and it has the most people directly involved with it in a fairly significant way. Sure, you could argue that the Frenzied Flame is one as well, but Ranni's is filled or linked with almost every character, and definitely every major character, and has a direct lineage connection, too. I think it's the Elden Lord ending because despite doing the Ranni quest it's the one I got since I assumed it worked like the other games where you activate the same thing at the end and you get the ending you did stuff for (or get a prompt for it) and didn't realize there was something else I had to interact with.
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Oct 18, 2023 02:27
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Ranni’s the heroine of the game, the princess in the tower you swoop in to rescue, who caused everything bad and then came through and saved the day…or you can not, if you don’t care, then none of that will happen. There is no “canon” ending to any of the previous games, even the ones that are direct sequels have super vague “it is all a cycle” endings that could all lead into the next game in some way and none of them are confirmed or denied by their own DLC for example.
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Oct 18, 2023 02:33
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LazyMaybe posted:"And have the certainties of sight, emotion, faith, and touch… It's ambiguous if you just focus on that one sentence. If you look at it in context with what she's saying, it's more clear that she's talking about "certainties becoming impossibilities" in the context of the Order, rather than saying out of nowhere that she wants to lobotomise everyone and cut off their hands
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Oct 18, 2023 02:47
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On the one hand, Japanese often lacking clearly indicated subjects in sentences has been the bane of translations for years. Ultimately the translation adds ambiguity where there really wasn't any before, and that's not ideal. On the other hand, it's a fuckin' Fromsoft game. Suddenly complaining that the dialogue is too opaque is hilarious. Like, honestly, while some of the nuances didn't click for me, the whole "keep them at a remove" part was pretty clear yet I've seen people act befuddled and claim the translation somehow completely obfuscated and mangled any and all comprehension of what Ranni is up to. But then, it's nothing new for Souls fans to twist themselves in knots over those wily translators and their constant attempts to sabotage the lore. Edit: It's definitely also compounded by people not knowing that you can go back and chat with Ranni further. John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Oct 18, 2023 |
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Oct 18, 2023 03:00
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Souls games outside bloodbourne don't have a right or intended ending. It's the rules you followed that led you to your outcome. https://youtu.be/p93w7MpbZRw?si=_DD_MzlDlMXAFW0j
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Oct 18, 2023 04:53
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I thought Elden Ring was written in English first this time?
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Oct 18, 2023 10:41
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The obvious canon ending is the "The Lord of Poop covered everything in Poop and the clouds are Diarrhea now and everyone is cursed by the Poop Curse" ending.
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Oct 18, 2023 11:03
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Can't believe a From game would be ambiguous
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Oct 18, 2023 11:17
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Oscar Wild posted:Souls games outside bloodbourne don't have a right or intended ending. It's the rules you followed that led you to your outcome. I dunno Setting aside the fact that it’s the happiest ending and most moral ending, there’s so much more thought and writing put into Ranni’s storyline that it feels like it was the closest to the writer’s heart Most of the other endings are about a blank slate protagonist becoming king of the hill, but the Ranni ending is about you helping someone with a pretty compelling motivation achieve something against impossible odds Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 13:10 on Oct 18, 2023 |
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Oct 18, 2023 13:07
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Chaos Flame ending is the most moral ending
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Oct 18, 2023 14:28
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I think ”YOU DIED” is the most morally compassionate ending.
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Oct 18, 2023 14:49
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dialhforhero posted:I thought Elden Ring was written in English first this time? Martin wrote a back-backstory to the setting which Miyazaki plucked stuff from but I believe he writes all the dialogue.
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Oct 18, 2023 15:19
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Steve Yun posted:I dunno Happiest ? She's basically unmaking the universe because it has suffering in it/the gods are broken. Not even Goldmask's "perfect immutable Order forever", just... nothing.
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Oct 18, 2023 15:42
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Kobal2 posted:Happiest ? She's basically unmaking the universe because it has suffering in it/the gods are broken. Not even Goldmask's "perfect immutable Order forever", just... nothing. Yeah, it's pretty sweet. Every game deserves an Age of Darkness ending imo.
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Oct 18, 2023 15:43
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Kobal2 posted:Happiest ? She's basically unmaking the universe because it has suffering in it/the gods are broken. Not even Goldmask's "perfect immutable Order forever", just... nothing. no she's not like i'd get into the reasoning but this is just dumb on its face. you have to ignore basically everything she, Blaidd, and Iji say all game to think that. e: Ranni's ending takes the cycle of death and rebirth (and the constant manipulation, gaming, and hoarding of power within it) and takes it far away where people can't gently caress with it. that's all. it's very explicitly not destroying it, because that would just be the Frenzied Flame ending again. it's sort of grim and bittersweet in that it implies that by doing this she's going to lock herself (and the player, since you insisted) away from everyone and everything she's ever known in order to run with the proverbial ball, and tragic in that she doesn't realize just how hard her most loyal followers are going to take being abandoned, but that's all. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Oct 18, 2023 |
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Oct 18, 2023 17:56
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Kobal2 posted:Happiest ? She's basically unmaking the universe because it has suffering in it/the gods are broken. Not even Goldmask's "perfect immutable Order forever", just... nothing. She's just hiding the world fron the vision of the gods, idk where you even get universal annihilation from
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Oct 18, 2023 18:02
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Kobal2 posted:Happiest ? She's basically unmaking the universe because it has suffering in it/the gods are broken. Not even Goldmask's "perfect immutable Order forever", just... nothing. That sounds a lot more like you're describing the flame of chaos ending. My read on Ranni's ending is that the world still continues on, but that the influence of the gods on it is more attenuated, like distant starlight compared to a big glowing tree that lights up everything 24/7. The cold, dark journey is her flying through space to fight the other gods trying to more directly impose their wills.
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Oct 18, 2023 18:14
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Golden Order ending - Law Ranni ending - Neutral/Humanity Flame of Frenzy ending - Chaos
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Oct 18, 2023 18:15
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In all the endings where you become a lord, does the Greater Will still rule the planet with you as middle manager, or does killing the Elden Beast break the Greater Will’s connection with the planet?
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Oct 18, 2023 18:42
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Steve Yun posted:In all the endings where you become a lord, does the Greater Will still rule the planet with you as middle manager, or does killing the Elden Beast break the Greater Will’s connection with the planet? That's a really good question that I also want answered. Like, we killed the elden beast and burned the giant tree antenna, so how much influence does the Greater Will have now? Was the GW just one of a host of elder gods and they happened to plant a flag on the Lands Between before everyone else? Are the others going to swoop in and set up shop? Mostly unrelated, Ranni's ending is the only one that hard requires killing Radahn right? Wasn't he the main defense against more Astel aliens raining down on the Lands, or am I getting that wrong? I feel like there's so much room for DLC/ER2 story to go weird places, which is cool imo.
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Oct 18, 2023 21:02
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Mentat Radnor posted:Was the GW just one of a host of elder gods and they happened to plant a flag on the Lands Between before everyone else? Are the others going to swoop in and set up shop? They kind of already are when the game starts, like half the demigods are playing for a different team in one way or another. Malenia is an involuntary vessel for the Scarlet Rot, Ranni has her patron Moon, Mohg has the Mother of Truth. God only knows what bullshit Miquella is up to, although the Golden Needle suggests he was trying to shut out Outer Gods entirely; similarly, it's not clear if Godwyn was actually the golden child he was made out to be or if there was more than that going on before he died. There's also a weird one-off reference to an Outer God related to Deathbirds and Ghostflame sorceries per the Twinbird Kite Shield. And then there's whatever team Placidusax and the dragons were playing for, although they may simply have been humanity's predecessors under the Greater Will. Several NPCs also suggest that the Two Fingers (at least, if not the Greater Will itself) have grown senile and disconnected from the source of their power. One of those is Varre, who isn't exactly trustworthy, but to a certain extent it lines up with what the Finger Maidens tell you, and they conversely have every reason to keep pretending things are fine unless there's absolutely no other choice.
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Oct 18, 2023 21:09
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Steve Yun posted:In all the endings where you become a lord, does the Greater Will still rule the planet with you as middle manager, or does killing the Elden Beast break the Greater Will’s connection with the planet? the goldmask ending involves enshrining the golden order as a sort of natural law that the gods are beholden to as much as mortals and can't corrupt or influence with their personal agendas. there's the question of whether the rules it comprises will actually be good for the lands between but it levels the power dynamic and forces the greater will to hold up what's effectively their end of the contract
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Oct 18, 2023 21:23
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Patches knew.
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Oct 18, 2023 22:00
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No Dignity posted:She's just hiding the world fron the vision of the gods, idk where you even get universal annihilation from She explicitly states that she's going to put infinite distance at the heart of things : "As it is now, life, and souls, and order are bound tightly together, but I would have them at great remove and have the certainties of sight, emotion, faith, and touch... All become impossibilities." I don't know how you can read that without picturing each and every soul, every atom even become an isolated, solipsistic thing that will never meet another or even perceive the Universe it exists in (because sight and touch is an impossibility, and souls would not be alive and vice versa). It might not be *destroying* the Universe, but it might as well be.
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Oct 18, 2023 23:53
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she's talking about capital-O Order, not your literal ability to see with your eyes or say hi to your neighbor. there's no room for uncertainty in the Lands Between because a physical manifestation of God is sitting there on the horizon in glowing neon yellow
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Oct 19, 2023 00:01
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:it's very explicitly not destroying it, because that would just be the Frenzied Flame ending again. No. The Frenzied Flame doesn't destroy anything, quite the opposite : it merges *everything* back together into a primordial soup (that hopefully will give birth to something good this time around ; and at worst there'll again be a Time Before The Fuckery, before The Fuckery 2.0 happens again). As for Iji and Blaidd, what the gently caress do they know ? Blaidd was explicitly made to serve her unquestioningly ("a vassal tailored for an Empyrean" ; "Her very shadow, incapable of treachery.") and Iji just... kind of likes her and/or is loyal to her/the Carian family ? There's no indication he actually knows what she's up to.
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Oct 19, 2023 00:03
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Blaidd wasn't made to be incapable of betraying Ranni, he was made incapable of betraying the Golden Order, because his purpose is to act as a watchdog against Ranni herself rebelling. (And it didn't work, because he has free will and he cares about her too much.) Iji absolutely knows what she's up to, and it influenced his decision to side with her: quote:When Lady Ranni renounced her flesh, and chose the dark path of the Empyrean, Blaidd and I swore allegiance as vassals, but none of us will ever forget our earliest days together. Promise to look after Blaidd for me, will you? The man is honest to a fault. But fortunately, now he has you. quote:Oh, there you are. Good of you to drop by. Have you heard? Lady Ranni has departed on her journey. Along the dark path of the Empyrean, from Renna’s Rise, as she calls it. It would not have been possible without you. As Lady Ranni’s war counselor, and moreover, her childhood warden, I express my deepest gratitude. You, and only you, were Lady Ranni’s true champion. Also, more to the point, Ranni really obviously cares about them, despite the fact that she's leaving them behind. Again, you basically have to ignore everything that happens between any of these characters across the entire game to come to the conclusion you are.
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Oct 19, 2023 00:07
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Kobal2 posted:No. The Frenzied Flame doesn't destroy anything, quite the opposite : it merges *everything* back together into a primordial soup (that hopefully will give birth to something good this time around ; and at worst there'll again be a Time Before The Fuckery, before The Fuckery 2.0 happens again). Hyetta says in so many words that there will be “no more birth”. That worldwide firestorm ain’t going anywhere good
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Oct 19, 2023 00:10
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Iji absolutely knows what she's up to, and it influenced his decision to side with her: That quote doesn't say what you think (and say) it says. He says she was meant for one thing, but then she said "gently caress that" and killed the god she was promised to. That's fine ; he knows that because everyone knows that. It's a thing that has happened in the *past*. It doesn't say he knows what her goal is NOW. quote:Also, more to the point, Ranni really obviously cares about them, despite the fact that she's leaving them behind. That's neither here nor there. I would care about my dog (if I was healthy enough to have one) ; but if I found a Purpose and that meant leaving my dog behind I'd be a little sad, but I wouldn't abandon my newfound purpose because she's a googirl, possibly the bessgirl even.
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Oct 19, 2023 00:12
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skasion posted:Hyetta says in so many words that there will be “no more birth”. That worldwide firestorm ain’t going anywhere good there will probably be another cycle eventually, but that's true of all the endings. nevermind Elden Ring, the entire Fromsoft catalogue is about how a final end of history is both improbable and undesirable Kobal2 posted:That's neither here nor there. no, that's the crux of the entire issue and the reason your reading makes no sense
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Oct 19, 2023 00:14
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Does Ranni’s ending also mean the influence of the Moon God is taken away from the planet? Does she, as the winner at the end, grant the planet freedom from all outer gods?
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Oct 19, 2023 00:15
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skasion posted:Hyetta says in so many words that there will be “no more birth”. That worldwide firestorm ain’t going anywhere good Hyetta eats eyeballs she thinks are fruit, and thinks she's following Grace the whole time. I wouldn't put too much credence into whatever she says. That being said, that's... not really what she says ? Here's what she does say : "All that there is came from the One Great. Then came fractures, and births, and souls. But the Greater Will made a mistake. Torment, despair, affliction... every sin, every curse. Every one, born of the mistake. And so, what was borrowed must be returned. Melt it all away, with the yellow chaos flame. Until all is One again. Those who gave me grapes howled without words. Saying they wished they were never born. Become their lord. Take their torment, despair. Their affliction. Every sin, every curse. And melt it all away. As the Lord of Chaos. No more fractures...no more birth..." That's not *really* "no more birth" (as in the end of everything), that's "start again, from the top, because those who are born *in this here world* with the state it's in NOW, after "the mistake" are hosed, and they know it, and suffer from it". So just, maybe, do something else entirely. Start something else entirely. Retcon the world. ETA : as to what the world looks like if The One Great doesn't invent fractured life to keep itself company... who knows ? Maybe it just accept its lonely existence within an infinity of errant, purposeless matter and drunkenly composes bawdy haiku, forever ? That's what I'm doing. It's okay. Kobal2 fucked around with this message at 00:30 on Oct 19, 2023 |
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Oct 19, 2023 00:22
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:no, that's the crux of the entire issue and the reason your reading makes no sense It.. really isn't ? She cares about you, ostensibly, as well. But she would have abandonned you, too, if you hadn't persisted in talking to a tiny doll.
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Oct 19, 2023 00:26
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Kobal2 posted:It.. really isn't ? She cares about you, ostensibly, as well. But she would have abandonned you, too, if you hadn't persisted in talking to a tiny doll. Nothing she does in the entire game suggests she wants to unmake the world, and she gets more screen time and development than nearly any other NPC. Ranni is not a secret psychopath, if anything her interactions with you and the War Council all point to her being not nearly as cold and badass as she pretends to be.
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Oct 19, 2023 00:31
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Nothing she does in the entire game suggests she wants to unmake the world By "nothing", you mean "nothing besides her abruptly and suddenly leaving her longtime followers to go do her thing, one of whomst becomes murdercrazy with grief" ? Or "Nothing besides having an obvious and very ostensible dollfucker on the payroll because... Iunno what Seluvis does for her akshully" ? Nothing besides *the actual text* of what she tells you, and also that of her ending where she does, in fact, casts "each and every soul" into "doubt, fear and loneliness" ? Also, she's literally the very first murderer. So there is, also, as it were, that. But beyond that, yes, sure. Wholesome. Blue pussy got you thinking unwise.
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Oct 19, 2023 00:45
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It's not "suddenly or abruptly," they spent years planning it together. Iji in particular has a better grasp of the setting's metaphysics than we do as an audience. He's the one who pieces together every resource they'll need and every obstacle that'll have to be removed to complete the plan when it's not obvious to anyone else, Ranni herself included. The only way to arrive at what you're suggesting is a Drax-level literal reading of a single badly translated line in a sentence where it's supposed to modify a different clause. Nothing else supports the idea that a character -- who frets that her friends-verging-on-family who have known her since birth are too willing to sacrifice for her, who asks you to relay her love to them after she's already won, left, and no longer needs them for anything -- is secretly planning to reduce everything to constituent atoms. e: Seluvis is there because he's useful, which is an instructive contrast because it shows you exactly how she treats people she needs but doesn't like (and how different that treatment is from the rest of the crew); he's not the worst person she's worked with, either, given the original plan was to have Rykard fight Maliketh for the Rune of Death. She's plotting to kill God, after all, revolutions aren't clean. Seluvis is also deeply pitiful and (probably, based on the shared death flag with Pidia) a member of a race/species that's been persecuted and hunted for their body parts, something the game throws at you almost immediately before you meet Ranni. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Oct 19, 2023 |
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Oct 19, 2023 00:51
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Ranni is part of the god class and thus an enemy of the proletarnished. All will be equal under comrade Goldmask's perfect order!
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Oct 19, 2023 01:17
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