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Main Paineframe posted:The US is aiding Israel because there's a lot more Jewish Americans than Palestinian-Americans, so there's a lot more political pressure to side with Israel. This is pretty dumb - the reason the US is siding with Ukraine isn't that there are more Ukrainian Americans than Russian Americans. Even if you assume that voters always prefer foreign policy in line with their personal ethnic/cultural origin, we know that American policy isn't responsive to voters, it's responsive to lobbyists and donors. So the idea that Americans want policy X is not enough to explain why politicians feel pressured to support policy X. As for what gives the Israel lobby on America its rhetorical and financial power, there's: -Foreign policy interests at play (Israel is the only US ally in the region) -Economic interests (Israel is a major trading partner for the US and the US is Israel's greatest trading partner by far) -Cultural interests (Israel represents "the right kind of Jew" to Christian Zionists, an avatar of the fight against antisemitism to American Jews, general progress to American liberals/progressives) I AM GRANDO posted:Also, being Jewish has no relationship to one’s thoughts about Israel, no matter what the American right (and Israel) would have you believe. The rest of your post was correct but this is pretty silly. American Jewish cultural identity, for most of us, means much more emotional/intellectual/literal investment in Israel than the average American: https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/05/11/u-s-jews-connections-with-and-attitudes-toward-israel/ Being Jewish means you're much more likely to have family in Israel, to grow up learning and hearing about Israel, to have religious investments in eretz Israel, and to physically travel there. Not to mention that the state recognizes you as a potential citizen and claims to be acting on your behalf. It would be insane if all these things didn't make us more likely to care about what happens over there and how people talk about it. Civilized Fishbot fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Oct 17, 2023 |
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Oct 17, 2023 23:27
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I AM GRANDO posted:Yeah, I don’t think American Jews are really tipping the scales on the US relationship with Israel. There are about 8 million Jewish Americans spread across a total population of 350 million. That’s ~3%. The US supports Israel because it serves the foreign policy objectives of the US to do so. Also, being Jewish has no relationship to one’s thoughts about Israel, no matter what the American right (and Israel) would have you believe. I suspect the majority of American Jewish population is actually more sympathetic to Palestinians than average Americans. (In a very vague "Two state solution would be good" sort of way).
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Oct 17, 2023 23:28
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From what I can tell, due to the US propaganda machine being pro-Israel (related to a whole bunch of colonialist and other US/middle east political relations history that I'm sure others would know about better than me, plus evangelical christians with their Revelations stuff) "Israel good" had been the mainstream political view in America for decades, to the point where while the democrat party is the one place where you could find mainstream politicians critical of Israel, most of them still go "Israel good" and celebrities who aren't right wing cranks are voicing support for Israel. Enough younger people in America are starting to be anti-Israel but that hasn't caught up to mainstream politicians yet (and it would probably be a long while if it ever does) edit: Civilized Fishbot's post that popped up while I was writing this sums up some of my points better than I do Digamma-F-Wau fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Oct 17, 2023 |
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Oct 17, 2023 23:29
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I AM GRANDO posted:Yeah, I don’t think American Jews are really tipping the scales on the US relationship with Israel. There are about 8 million Jewish Americans spread across a total population of 350 million. That’s ~3%. The US supports Israel because it serves the foreign policy objectives of the US to do so. Also, being Jewish has no relationship to one’s thoughts about Israel, no matter what the American right (and Israel) would have you believe. More to the point, the evangelical Christians support Israel because it has to exist for Jesus to return and nuke all the non believing Jews during the final days.
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Oct 17, 2023 23:34
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Digamma-F-Wau posted:From what I can tell, due to the US propaganda machine being pro-Israel (related to a whole bunch of colonialist and other US/middle east political relations history that I'm sure others would know about better than me, plus evangelical christians with their Revelations stuff) "Israel good" had been the mainstream political view in America for decades, to the point where while the democrat party is the one place where you could find mainstream politicians critical of Israel, most of them still go "Israel good" and celebrities who aren't right wing cranks are voicing support for Israel. Enough younger people in America are starting to be anti-Israel but that hasn't caught up to mainstream politicians yet (and it would probably be a long while if it ever does) It's an example of full-blown group think at this point. The fact that being pro Palestine is a career ender doesn't depend on some Israel lobbyist . They'd never need to send one, the rest of the American ruling class and the fourth estate would take care of it for them.
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Oct 17, 2023 23:37
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I AM GRANDO posted:Yeah, I don’t think American Jews are really tipping the scales on the US relationship with Israel. There are about 8 million Jewish Americans spread across a total population of 350 million. That’s ~3%. The US supports Israel because it serves the foreign policy objectives of the US to do so. Also, being Jewish has no relationship to one’s thoughts about Israel, no matter what the American right (and Israel) would have you believe. Not only are they a relatively small percentage of the population, they are mostly concentrated in D strongholds like NY, NJ, and CA. There is a decent population in Florida (~600k) which could in theory have an impact on Federal elections if every Jew in the state decided to vote in one direction, but as you mentioned the Jewish electorate is not a monolith. The reasons that US strongly backs Israel are (in no particular order): 1. Industrial interests (i.e. the MIC) 2. Christian zionism 3. Geopolitical / strategic value of having an ally in the Middle East Nothing to do with the will of the American Jewish electorate. Seph fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Oct 17, 2023 |
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Oct 17, 2023 23:40
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haveblue posted:As I understand it, the extraordinary measures period is typically included in any default deadline estimates, under the (so far consistently correct) assumption that the treasury will begin extraordinary measures when needed regardless of how Congressional negotiations are going. So yes, we hit the debt ceiling, stay there for some time while the treasury quietly scrambles to hold things together, then default some indeterminate time after and that is the point where all hell breaks loose Yeah, this is correct. Earlier in the summer, the extraordinary measures, which had been going on for months, were nearly fully exhausted. If a deal had not been made, a technical default would've occurred, something that may have never happened in a self-inflicted manner to the country who issues what is the de facto world reserve currency at the time.
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Oct 17, 2023 23:44
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I think in addition to a lot of the stuff above, there's the simple appeal of "Israel is where the Bible happened. The real Bible, not the Muslim one." To the average American Christian, it's the only worthwhile part of the Middle East. And it naturally follows that they don't want Muslims to be able to have any claim to the area.
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Oct 18, 2023 00:07
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Will be interesting to see how this whole $100B funding and Biden's current trip shakes out in the wake of the IDF bombing.
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Oct 18, 2023 00:18
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koolkal posted:Will be interesting to see how this whole $100B funding and Biden's current trip shakes out in the wake of the IDF bombing. "Israel has the right to strike back at terrorist threats, which they just did to great effect, so we're doubling our contribution to $200B in solidarity with our Jewish allies"
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Oct 18, 2023 00:20
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You’re going to have to be more specific
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Oct 18, 2023 00:20
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James Garfield posted:Trump won Florida by 3% in 2020. That was before Desantis did all the voter suppression and gerrymandering. Desantis won by 20% in 2022, running on a Trump platform. Demings also got crushed by 16%. The election "reforms," the retiring boomers, and all the people who moved here because of covid lockdowns have probably made it a lost cause in the short term.
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Oct 18, 2023 00:23
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ummel posted:That was before Desantis did all the voter suppression and gerrymandering. Desantis won by 20% in 2022, running on a Trump platform. Demings also got crushed by 16%. The election "reforms," the retiring boomers, and all the people who moved here because of covid lockdowns have probably made it a lost cause in the short term. Charlie Crist and Val Demings were colossally bad, only in Florida candidates. The epitome of running Republican-lite against a Republican, and then being surprised the Republican won. However, Florida is slipping it's way out of swing state status. To win it Democrats are going to need to put up an actual candidate, unlike the last two options.
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Oct 18, 2023 00:51
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Seph posted:Not only are they a relatively small percentage of the population, they are mostly concentrated in D strongholds like NY, NJ, and CA. There is a decent population in Florida (~600k) which could in theory have an impact on Federal elections if every Jew in the state decided to vote in one direction, but as you mentioned the Jewish electorate is not a monolith. I'd swap 2 and 3.
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Oct 18, 2023 01:29
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Yeah, I think the “bait for the Jesus trap” aspect of US policy toward Israel is overstated. Those people are out there and every so often someone (Reagan, George Bush II) opens a door for them, but democrats treat Israel in exactly the same way that most republicans do. The empire has a good client and they will strengthen that relationship and keep it strong.
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Oct 18, 2023 01:37
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What are the ten most effective/powerful state operated intelligence agencies today?
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Oct 18, 2023 01:59
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Uglycat posted:What are the ten most effective/powerful state operated intelligence agencies today? You’ve never heard of any of them
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Oct 18, 2023 02:06
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Uglycat posted:What are the ten most effective/powerful state operated intelligence agencies today? Target
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Oct 18, 2023 02:12
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newscorp
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Oct 18, 2023 02:13
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mannerup fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Nov 5, 2023 |
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Oct 18, 2023 02:14
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haveblue posted:You’ve never heard of any of them Which Nation States operate those no-such Agencies? Top 10.
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Oct 18, 2023 02:14
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Uglycat posted:What are the ten most effective/powerful state operated intelligence agencies today? Google, Apple, and Facebook.
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Oct 18, 2023 02:19
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Uglycat posted:Which Nation States operate those no-such Agencies? Top 10. I’ve never heard of them either
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Oct 18, 2023 02:20
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Uglycat posted:What are the ten most effective/powerful state operated intelligence agencies today? Google, Yandex, Facebook, X, VK, Amazon, Apple, Baidu, Goldman Sachs, whatever company Erik Prince is killing people with today
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Oct 18, 2023 02:50
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ummel posted:That was before Desantis did all the voter suppression and gerrymandering.
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Oct 18, 2023 02:52
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I AM GRANDO posted:Yeah, I think the “bait for the Jesus trap” aspect of US policy toward Israel is overstated. Those people are out there and every so often someone (Reagan, George Bush II) opens a door for them, but democrats treat Israel in exactly the same way that most republicans do. The empire has a good client and they will strengthen that relationship and keep it strong. I don't think that would change their status as an American ally, Saudi Arabia already shows is proof the US will overlook virtually anything for that, but I do think it's why it's turned into this weird state of affairs where telling Israel to stop doing anything is a huge deal. The post-9/11 Islamophobia sure didn't help either. e: Oops this isn't the I/P thread. OneEightHundred fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Oct 18, 2023 |
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Oct 18, 2023 02:56
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Pillowpants posted:Google, Yandex, Facebook, X, VK, Amazon, Apple, Baidu, Goldman Sachs, whatever company Erik Prince is killing people with today is X the musk X or is it an actual powerful X?
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Oct 18, 2023 03:17
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Personal story: On Sunday I was in line at a wake for about 40 minutes, standing behind USCE favorite Nicole Malliotakis. I reigned in my troll instincts because of decorum, but worked in a Scalise joke and she didn’t really laugh. That’s my story guys.
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Oct 18, 2023 03:45
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TheDisreputableDog posted:Personal story: On Sunday I was in line at a wake for about 40 minutes, standing behind USCE favorite Nicole Malliotakis. I reigned in my troll instincts because of decorum, but worked in a Scalise joke and she didn’t really laugh. That’s my story guys. She seems like a bog-standard shithead from a skim of her wiki article. What makes her a thread favorite?
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Oct 18, 2023 04:12
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OneEightHundred posted:
this is why i'm not greatly fond of the initial post throwing the "i am very upset about israel, please describe to me how the US is bad about it" grenade maybe let's take israel discussion to the very active thread about it that i helpfully stickied a bit ago
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Oct 18, 2023 04:30
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Seph posted:Not only are they a relatively small percentage of the population, they are mostly concentrated in D strongholds like NY, NJ, and CA. There is a decent population in Florida (~600k) which could in theory have an impact on Federal elections if every Jew in the state decided to vote in one direction, but as you mentioned the Jewish electorate is not a monolith. AIPAC is also a formidable lobbying and fundraising constituent.
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Oct 18, 2023 05:23
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TheDisreputableDog posted:Personal story: On Sunday I was in line at a wake for about 40 minutes, standing behind USCE favorite Nicole Malliotakis. I reigned in my troll instincts because of decorum, but worked in a Scalise joke and she didn’t really laugh. That’s my story guys. Of the prior 13 posts about her in any forum, 2 were in a USCE/USNEWS/USPOL thread. One about potential NY redistricting, one about a vote against MTG. 
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Oct 18, 2023 05:40
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Sorry you presumably were in Staten Island though. That’s rough.
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Oct 18, 2023 05:43
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Really disappointed that Scalise and Jordan didn't go the McCarthy route of spamming votes and throwing tantrums until they got the job.
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Oct 18, 2023 06:33
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From the thread The Something Awful Forums > Main > Post Your Frights: Devil's Vineyard > PYF Schadenfreude: Playing a game of whackfuck, here thread:Archonex posted:
You get one guess who is laughing in the background.
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Oct 18, 2023 08:25
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Google Jeb Bush posted:this is why i'm not greatly fond of the initial post throwing the "i am very upset about israel, please describe to me how the US is bad about it" grenade DnD is the most easily trolled board on the forums.
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Oct 18, 2023 12:59
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I AM GRANDO posted:She seems like a bog-standard shithead from a skim of her wiki article. What makes her a thread favorite? No, she’s not, I was just being cheeky.
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Oct 18, 2023 13:28
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Comstar posted:From the thread The Something Awful Forums > Main > Post Your Frights: Devil's Vineyard > PYF Schadenfreude: Playing a game of whackfuck, here thread: I'm surprised they got a front shot of Jordan. Most of the time he's looking the other way.
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Oct 18, 2023 15:21
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They're voting again for Speaker, and again Jordan doesn't appear to have the votes.
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Oct 18, 2023 17:23
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Poor dear.
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Oct 18, 2023 17:24
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