Rakosi posted:

I agree, which is why I said I couldn't confirm it but did find that tweet of him claiming on the 9th that his wife was taking over his twitter. Of course, he could still be tweeting, but I have no idea. Regardless he's just a draftee content creator, not an IDF source or official.

The Kingfish posted:

Nobody reputable, not even the IDF, is claiming that Hamas is responsible for the explosion.

Rakosi posted:

I mean, I agree, but this isn't journalism.

Zoeb posted:

You don't think that undermines someone's credibility?

Fork of Unknown Origins posted:

Is he not an aide to Netanyahu?

quote:

When asked how he got involved with former prime minister and now Prime Minister-designate Benjamin Netanyahu and the Likud Party, Naftali credited his “chutzpah.”

“By that time I had a few hundred thousand followers, so I literally messaged Benjamin Netanyahu’s adviser on Facebook one day. A few hours later he responded that they had thought about this idea themselves, and so it was funny that I had contacted them first,” he said.

In 2017, Naftali met Netanyahu in Jerusalem and interviewed him.

“It was a very short interview on how to defend Israel in the best possible way; I just wanted to get Netanyahu’s wisdom,” he said. “It was the first time I had met him, and months later they asked me to join his team. When you’re 22 and the prime minister offers you a job, you don’t say no. I guess they liked me. So, that’s how I got into this political world.”

“I am determined to continue and tell the story of Israel until my last breath,” Naftali concluded.

The Kingfish posted:

Journalists make educated assumptions all the time, and for good reason. It would not be a journalistic failure, for example, to report that a family of Israelis found murdered in the area of the October 7 attacks were killed by Hamas—even if their deaths later prove unrelated to the attack.

mannerup posted:

is he currently a member of the government in any official capacity? I see him being cited as a former digital media officer of Netanyahu and can't find anything on his current status. If he's just some state sponsored Israeli social media influencer, who gives a poo poo what he thinks

PostNouveau posted:

Palestinian Red Crescent reporting Al Quds Hospital currently getting attacked

https://twitter.com/PalestineRCS/status/1714721700028293171

Purported huge Israeli bombing Islamic Jihad misfire about a block away

https://twitter.com/ytirawi/status/1714703569742422201

This hospital was ordered evacuated by Israel. PRCS says about 8,000 people are patients, working there, or sheltering from the barrage there.

https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/prcs-statement-al-quds-hospital-evacuation-order-enar

PT6A posted:

Very good to see Jewish people protesting against this unjust war, despite what the Israeli state would have us think.

Rakosi posted:

There have also been tweeted claims that the rocket launches just before the hospital explosion were pre announced by Hamas, but I have avoided posting this because I can't read Arabic and I'm not sure if the timestamps make sense, because the hospital was struck at around 19:20, but this could be similar to issues of software timezones shifting stuff by exactly an hour that has been talked about in reference to some of the video footage.

birdstrike posted:

No that’s just the northern lights, which PIJ have localised somehow.

Rakosi posted:

https://twitter.com/JordanSchachtel/status/1714350115312255019

ummel posted:

https://x.com/ThomasVLinge/status/1714372303834722813

The closest thing I've seen to an official position. He's probably some nephew of someone important, who gets to post through war instead of shoot. And I'm not even sure Thomas is posting this as fact vs comparing it to being a journalist.

NovemberMike posted:

The current violence goes back to the late 1910s to early 1920s then. The Jaffa Riots are one of the earliest big ones. There are two main movements leading up to this, the first being the British supporting Jewish migration under the Balfour Declaration (and an influx of Jewish nationalists) and the other being the rise of Arab ethnonationalist movements at the tail end of the Ottoman Empire (the Palestinian flag is a modification of the Flag of Arab Revolt against the Ottomans). Both sides started to push more strongly for their own brand of ethnonationalism and against multicultural unity.

Pro-Israeli people are going to tend to focus on the Arab ethnonationalist elements (massacres of Jews, Palestinians being part of the surrounding nations attacking Israel, etc.). Pro-Palestinian people will focus on the Jewish ethnonationalist elements (literal terrorism, the Nakba, the ongoing apartheid). The more I learn about the conflict the less sure I am about anything so I'm not going to really suggest who's right or wrong.

Zulily Zoetrope posted:

Any thoughts on the comically prominent Cyrillic watermark that the tweeter does not feel the need to mention? It's odd that he wouldn't cite his source if they were someone credible.

e: I don't speak Russian, but I'm pretty sure it transliterates to "Telegram Kanal 'Golos Izrailya,'" which google translates to "Telegram Channel 'Voice of Israel.'" No idea if that clarifies anything, but it's a curious detail to omit.

Dubar posted:

Protesting congress at this exact moment is about as effective as protesting cinnabon

quote:

Al-Qassam Brigades bomb occupied Haifa with an R160 missile in response to the massacres against civilians

quote:

Updates at 7pm described “bombardment by rockets” on Ashdod. Another, three minutes later, described an attack on Tel Aviv.

At 8.14pm, Hamas gave a further update, describing how al-Qassam brigades had targeted the northern Israeli city of Haifa with a R160 missile.

This was followed immediately by a press statement blaming Israel for the blast at the hospital which they called “an horrific massacre”.

Paladinus posted:

Found the original tg post:
https://t.me/hamasps/16836

It looks like it is HAMAS' official tg channel, there are google results about it prior to Oct 7. I don't speak Arabic so don't know how accurate the translation is, but Google gives me this:

Guardian also mention it here
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...rocket-to-blame

Typo posted:

it actually began as a a fairly typical ethnic squabble over territories which rose as the result of collapse of multi-ethnic empires at the end of the 19th century, albeit one which kept going for a lot longer than usual

NovemberMike posted:

Which multi-ethnic empires? Are you talking about the late 19th century decline of the Ottomans? The whole Arab nationalism thing dates back to that but it didn't really manifest as violence against Jews until the Mandate era.

quote:

The explosion at the hospital happened at around 19:00 local time (16:00 GMT) on Tuesday. A 20-second video which circulated on social media purporting to show the blast was the first significant piece of visual evidence to emerge of the incident.
[...]
Live footage from the Al-Jazeera media network aired at 18:59 local time showed a bright light rising in the skies above Gaza. It flashes twice before drastically changing direction, and it then explodes.

An explosion is then seen on the ground far away, followed by a much larger explosion closer to the camera operator, which the BBC has geolocated.

quote:

We contacted 20 think tanks, universities and companies with weapons expertise. Nine of them are yet to respond, five would not comment, but we spoke to experts at the remaining six.

We asked whether the available evidence - including the size of the explosion and the sounds heard beforehand - could be used to determine the cause of the hospital blast.

So far, the findings are inconclusive. Three experts we spoke to say it is not consistent with what you would expect from a typical Israeli air strike with a large munition.

J Andres Gannon, an assistant professor at Vanderbilt University, in the US, says the ground explosions appeared to be small, meaning that the heat generated from the impact may have been caused by leftover rocket fuel rather than an explosion from a warhead.

Justin Bronk, senior research fellow at the UK-based Royal United Services Institute, agrees. While it is difficult to be sure at such an early stage, he says, the evidence looks like the explosion was caused by a failed rocket section hitting the car park and causing a fuel and propellant fire.

Mr Gannon says it is not possible to determine whether the projectile struck its intended target from the footage he has seen. He adds that the flashes in the sky likely indicate the projectile was a rocket with an engine that overheated and stopped working.

Valeria Scuto, lead Middle East analyst at Sibylline, a risk assessment company, notes that Israel has the capacity to carry out other forms of air strike by drone, where they might use Hellfire missiles. These missiles generate a significant amount of heat but would not necessarily leave a large crater. But she says uncorroborated footage shows a pattern of fires at the hospital site that was not consistent with this explanation.

guidoanselmi posted:

A few of those folks sound like frauds. There's just not that much energy in a Gazan rocket. And lol at solid motor overheating and not combusting. What a joke.

Folks here really scared of Occam's razor like the boogieman

Nail Rat posted:

However, we cannot allow the UN to ask Israel to pause this for humanitarian aid.

Mind you, France and the UK also vetoed the resolution.

edit: this was in response to Joe up there

Main Paineframe posted:

It's not impossible for blowing up the parking lot outside to kill a bunch of people. Gaza's hospitals were warning about being well over capacity days ago, with reports of "seriously injured people lining the corridors" and long lines outside due to all the beds being full and all the doctors being busy. Moreover, there were multiple reports of tens of thousands of unhurt people flocking to the hospitals because they have nowhere else to go and hope that the hospitals might be less likely to get bombed.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/17/gaza-main-hospital-overflows-with-living-dead-dar-al-shifa

That's a different hospital, of course, but it's probably safe to assume it's not the only hospital facing those issues. In circumstances like that, it's plausible that even a parking lot explosion could be a mass casualty event.

NovemberMike posted:

You do know they have bigger rockets than the Qassam 3s?

guidoanselmi posted:

Folks here really scared of Occam's razor like the boogieman

ASIC v Danny Bro posted:

Going out in a limb here to say that, based on the evidence that has come out, it’s impossible that over five hundred people died from that explosion.

Maybe next time, people should take the claims of Hamas with a grain of salt and actually verify it before taking it at face value.

ASIC v Danny Bro posted:

Going out in a limb here to say that, based on the evidence that has come out, it’s impossible that over five hundred people died from that explosion.

Maybe next time, people should take the claims of Hamas with a grain of salt and actually verify it before taking it at face value.

guidoanselmi posted:

NovemberMike posted:

So I take it that's a no? You did not know that? Occams razor is that Hamas said they're shooting big rockets with more fuel that go farther, then we see a rocket fail on Al Jazeera and then we see an explosion that experts say looks like a rocket with unspent fuel hit the hospital courtyard, so with few assumptions it looks like a rocket that Hamas/PIJ shot.

I'm sure that you have a lot more experience than literal professors of air combat that work for prestigious universities and think tanks that have been within a short walk of Downing Street for the last two hundred years.

ASIC v Danny Bro posted:

Going out in a limb here to say that, based on the evidence that has come out, it’s impossible that over five hundred people died from that explosion.

Maybe next time, people should take the claims of Hamas with a grain of salt and actually verify it before taking it at face value.