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Welp, Poland continues to be the pitchest, blackest buncha edgelords.
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Oct 19, 2023 19:11
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Welp, Poland continues to be the pitchest, blackest buncha edgelords.
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Oct 19, 2023 19:18
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Mindopali posted:saying rape had no place in a Blizzard game." GOD I WISH THAT WAS TRUE
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Oct 19, 2023 21:39
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Kith posted:GOD I WISH THAT WAS TRUE It is true. They misplaced it nonetheless.
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Oct 19, 2023 21:42
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Mindopali posted:Employees pleaded with leadership to revise his version of the story, saying rape had no place in a Blizzard game."
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Oct 19, 2023 23:11
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titty_baby_ posted:Idk, based on their history this seems sus Eh I mean as much as there's some deeply hosed up poo poo very clearly implied and talked around in Warcraft, as far as I'm aware no Blizzard game has ever explicitly called direct attention to sexual assault as a thing, rather than just make it very obvious that that's what happened but not saying it in so many words. So it's still an escalation in ways that I can definitely see the writers having a lot of problems with. Especially the newer ones who weren't involved in any of the alexstrasza poo poo
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Oct 19, 2023 23:26
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Educational Games posted:as far as I'm aware no Blizzard game has ever explicitly called direct attention to sexual assault as a thing Garona.
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Oct 19, 2023 23:34
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I'm pretty sure the wc2 manual just outright said it.
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Oct 20, 2023 00:09
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Taretha and Clannia Foxton, too. (Clannia was basically coerced into being Thrall's wetnurse to improve her husband's standing, which is uncomfortable even if it's not direct sexual assault, Taretha is... yeah.)
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Oct 20, 2023 01:41
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I did not know that poo poo about Stepan being Cyberpunk's head writer, goddamn  I'm playing that right now, but it doesn't seem like that he managed to infect the game with that bullshit. Now I'm wondering if his bosses at CDPR kept him on some kind of leash (I mean, don't get me wrong, 2077's grim but nothing outside the realm of normal cyberpunk), or if he'd kept things bottled up until he reached Blizzard and realized he was among kindred spirits?
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Oct 20, 2023 07:43
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CommissarMega posted:I did not know that poo poo about Stepan being Cyberpunk's head writer, goddamn Sorry I should correct myself - as per the official credits he was the Story Concept writer. Note I do not actually understand what this job means compared to the Lead and Principal writers. 
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Oct 20, 2023 08:13
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Gridlocked posted:Sorry I should correct myself - as per the official credits he was the Story Concept writer. Based on words alone, the story concept writer would do the bare bones of the story and universe. They basically lay out the global ideas (cyberpunk, criminal protagonist, immersive sim, in a big city), but that's it. And it would happen before lead and principal writers take over, to add some meat to the bones, write a main story, quests, dialogue, and so on. At least, that's how I understand it from how the job is worded. Good chance the roles are not nearly as cut and dry. If someone knows more, I'd welcome being corrected.
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Oct 20, 2023 09:12
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There are a few bits of CP2077 that could be explained by that poo poo being in charge of the writing.
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Oct 20, 2023 13:11
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Night Elf 2: Island Hopping So, the site of this mission has been the subject of some pretty heavy retcons, owing to the WoW expansion Legion.  And even this mission is kind of confused about it.  As you may recall, the Tomb of Sargeras dates back to Aegwynn's time as Guardian of Tirisfal. Having fought the Avatar of Sargeras and defeated it, Aegwynn was nevertheless unable to destroy the Avatar's physical body and tried to bury it away from mortal reach forever.  Aegwynn brought the Avatar to an uninhabited island off the coast of Lordaeron, an island covered in ancient ruins of unknown origin, and placed the Avatar in the depths of the largest ruin. Aegwynn then used every trick, every scrap of knowledge she had to seal and ward the ruin, then summoned all of her power to sink the island beneath the waves.  This became known as the Tomb of Sargeras, and the Order of Tirisfal quietly scoured any mention of the island from human records.  During the Second War, Gul'dan followed the traces of Sargeras' power and found the location of the Tomb. Together with the ogre magus Cho'Gall, the combined magical might of the Stormreaver and Twilight's Hammer clans raised the island from the sea floor (plus a few other small islands) and breached the outer door of the Tomb.  Demons waiting within the Tomb, drawn or spawned by the Avatar's power, tore Gul'dan apart. Then the Black Tooth Grin clan lead by Rend and Maim arrived acting on orders of Orgrim Doomhammer.  The ensuing battle effectively destroyed all three clans as participants in the Second War. The handful of survivors abandoned the islands, and after the war Grand Admiral Daelin Proudmoore placed the islands under strict blockade on the advice of the Kirin Tor.  Now, Warcraft 3 has established that the ruins covering the island were in fact the ruins of Suramar, one of the greatest cities of the old Kaldorei Empire. The Tomb of Sargeras, the great complex in which Aegwynn buried the Avatar of Sargeras, was in fact Suramar's great temple to Elune, one of the largest and most elaborate in all the Empire. Eventually, WoW set an expansion in the Broken Isles and established that actually all this had been just one small part of a fair sized island chain filled with towering mountains, deep forests, an impenetrable magical shield bubble covering a huge area, and filled with vrykul, night elves, ghosts, and all manner of other residents. The fig leaf given to the appearance of the Tomb of Sargeras and its environs in WC2 and WC3 is that this is a sub-region known as the Broken Shore, consisting of the Temple of Elune and its suburbs. Now and in WC2, all the rest of the Broken Isles seen in WoW - Azsuna, Stormheim, Val'sharah, Highmountain, and Suramar proper - were canonically just off-screen, and that another night elf military order known as the Hunters of the Unseen Path were killing everyone who found the islands or tried to leave. Let's acknowledge that this raises more questions than it answers and move along with the mission.  Every faction in the expansion gets a new building that acts as a gift shop with a customized list of goodies. The only vaguely interesting thing in the night elf one at present is this consumable that turns the map to nighttime temporarily.  I don't have the full night elf roster on this mission, but do get two new units available. Neither of which I use because they're melee units and I'd rather have druids of the claw since they bring a healing spell.   I'm curious. You bested the Avatar, but couldn't actually destroy it? I cut the cord tying it to the Twisting Nether. The Avatar was just a puppet animated by Sargeras' will emanating from his plane. I couldn't destroy the Avatar directly, but I managed to cut the strings Sargeras was using to control it. The problem with that was that I had to... how to explain this to a layman... interpose my astral presence, shall we say, between Sargeras and the Avatar. Transferring the strings to you instead. A fact that I didn't appreciate at the time. Sargeras couldn't control me directly like he had the Avatar. What he could do was bad enough. So this is the tutorial mission for naval units. It's not complicated: press button, get ship. Ships in this mission are available in combat and transport varieties.  If nothing else, this map is absolutely gorgeous. Easily the single most beautiful map I've yet seen in this game, in my opinion.  There's a bunch of incidental creeps and loot hidden around the map, but most of them are uninteresting. I'll only show stuff that interests me. Also there's regular naga attacks on the base but two turrets at each base entrance sees them all off.   But you couldn't destroy the Avatar itself, eh? Sargeras is a Titan, idiot. I was the Guardian of Tirisfal, empowered with the arcane might of a dozen great mages, and I could barely take the drat thing down. Even then I doomed myself in the process. If you want to mock me, you can bloody well go solo against a physical manifestation of a Titan's power and tell us all how that goes. The naga are a fully fledged mini-faction! Tidal guardians are their turrets, the spiky things are [coral] farms, and everything else is a production structure.  Destroying this base is optional, but it's one of two expansion sites in the event you run out of gold in your starting base.  Maiev's voice actress does a great job softening her voice with melancholy in this mission. In the books, Malfurion at one point calls Maiev one of the last daughters of the Empire. There's almost no night elves left loyal to the modern night elf civilization who had long adult lives in the Kaldorei Empire - Tyrande and Malfurion et al are implied to have been the elf equivalent of their late teens or early 20s during the War of the Ancients, but Maiev is consistently presented as being from a generation before them. Maiev Shadowsong is in fact probably the single oldest notionally mortal character (thus excluding the draenei who flat-out seem to be naturally immortal and unaging) on Azeroth who isn't explicitly in league with the Old Gods or whatever.  ...I suppose that's fair. I find it hard to be too harsh on your son, for the record. And why is that? He was born with voices in his head from his parent's actions. So was I. Illidan's base is in the top center of the map, but I decide to fully explore the map first.  I'm dead, Aegwynn. The Old Gods no longer whisper to me. ...But you've been hearing them for so long that their voice sounds like your own, doesn't it? That's something I've been wondering throughout all of this. How much of my actions were really my own, and how much was them? How much agency did I really have in my own existence? I am not Arthas. I never had some great tipping point. My father soaked us all in the energies of the Void as we grew in our eggs. I don't know if I had a chance to be anything but what I was, even if I'd learned that I could have been something else and come to desire it. A goon on discord made sure I knew about this. If you have a huntress use their owl on a tree next to the southern edge of these ledges, you get just enough visibility for Maiev to blink up here.  Where three stat tomes are waiting, along with mana runes to recharge Maiev's blink if needed.  I then transport everyone back to start and go up the east side of the map, which immediately triggers a cutscene.   Rest easy, stranger. This old wanderer has no quarrel with you or your kin. I am Drak'thul, once a powerful warlock of the Stormreaver clan. Now I am the last of my kind. What are you doing here?Drak'thul makes a cameo in Legion, where the Old Gods have driven him mad. Strangely he's never fought, he's just a crazy old orc hermit who's the last known Stormreaver.  ...I'll consider it.This is an optional sidequest.  There's a mercenary camp here. I pay some gold for an adorable friend. And yes, it faces its side in the direction it runs.  So, Aegwynn, I find myself wondering if Medivh wasn't in a similar state. Influenced, even controlled, by an ancient and pitiless mind since before he ever breathed air. Is it any wonder he was terrible at being a hero?  He was still an obnoxious, needlessly cryptic jerk. True, but look who he had as examples to learn from. Shots fired. The undead orcs will continually spawn more until you destroy these summoning pits.  Thank you, stranger. Now, hear my tale. Nearly twenty years ago, the great warlock Gul'dan raised these islands from the deep. He sought to unearth an ancient vault that held the remains of the Dark Titan. Sargeras! You speak of the Legion's creator!So yeah, this is in part just learning more about the world if you never read the manual or played Warcraft 2, and does play nicely with the excuse that Maiev is pretty ignorant about what's happened in the outside world since the War of the Ancients.  I have wandered these islands ever since, haunted by the ghosts of my slaughtered comrades.Three guesses what Illidan's after in the Broken Isles and the first two don't count.   I've always liked Maiev, only partly due to as one goon put it, moody autistic lesbian reasons. This game's only making me adore her more. At any rate, there's nothing of interest left on this map.  And the base is easy to roll up.   You, my trusted servants, must remain here and guard the entrance. If that wretched warden managed to reach this island, she'll certainly try to follow us.Triggering a cutscene. Yeah, Illidan and the Tomb of Sargeras can't possibly lead to anything good. At least not without a bunch of adventurers following him.  We locked Illidan beneath the earth long ago. I intend to do so again.It's so refreshing to have a protagonist I actually like and want to see succeed.  If only that was what was going to happen in this expansion.  Not quite what this place looks like in WoW.  In retrospect I'm surprised it took so long for WoW to do the Tomb of Sargeras.  ...I spent a lot of time exploring this map for goodies, mkay?
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Oct 21, 2023 12:28
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Nightfall Today's subject, Suramar.  The city of Suramar needs little introduction at this point. Suramar was the greatest city of the Kaldorei Empire after the capital of Zin-Azshari, a center of religious worship, and the home of Tyrande Whisperwind. During the Empire's height, Suramar was famous for its wealth and political power, and infamous for its people's arrogance and murderous levels of internal politics among the aristocracy. Depending on who you ask, Suramar represented either the best or the worst of the Empire, and perhaps both. Like Zin-Azshari, Suramar was built over the ruins of a Titan facility, this one of unclear purpose. At the heart of this facility lay a great device known as the Eye of Aman'thul, a creation of the titular Titan who oversaw the power of space and time itself. The original purpose of this facility, and of the Eye, was unclear, but the facility seemed to serve as a major nexus of Azeroth's ley lines and somehow refined or amplified the magic flowing beneath Azeroth's surface. This facility would come to be known as the Arcway, and expanded by the night elves to further draw directly on Azeroth's magic for themselves. For much of the Empire's history, Suramar was ruled by a woman named Elisande, one of the finest arcane scholars and mages that the Kaldorei Empire ever produced - and bear in mind, that's saying something. Above all else, Elisande was famed for her command of the otherwise little-studied discipline of time magic. Elisande was most notable for her ability to see the future, and used this prescience to become Suramar's undisputed ruler and lead the city through many would-have-been disasters. Most in Suramar followed Elisande's command with a near-idolatrous zeal, similar to the devout followers Queen Azshara enjoyed, though Elisande herself always scoffed at the idea that she should herself be queen. She had better things to do than play politics and try to take control of the Empire, thank you. What Elisande told no one was that all her visions and studies of the future were warning her of apocalyptic disaster.  The War of the Ancients devastated the Empire, including Suramar. Faced with her inescapable visions of the world itself shattering, Elisande summoned her closest advisors and used the Eye of Aman'thul, in combination with the Titan facilities of the Arcway, to create what would come to be called the Nightwell, a nexus of magical energy second only to the Well of Eternity itself. When construction of the Nightwell was finished, Elisande used the Nightwell and the Arcway to shroud the center of Suramar in an arcane shield, abandoning the world outside as doomed. Suramar played no part in the resolution of the War of the Ancients, and the people of the city believed that the world outside their shield had been destroyed. For the ten thousand years since the Sundering, the people of Suramar continued to live within their shielded paradise. Survival came at a cost, scarcely any farmland had been protected by the shield and the aristocrats of Suramar were unwilling to compromise their city and station. Instead the night elves of Suramar turned to the Nightwell again and learned to draw raw arcane energy for sustenance. Access to the arcane energy of the Nightwell soon became a tool of control by Suramar's rulers, threatening starvation and exile for those who dissented. This was seen by many as worse than a death sentence, as feeding on raw arcane energy for survival had altered the night elves of Suramar into a new breed known as the nightborne. Without regular access to concentrated arcane energy, nightborne would wither and go mad before dying an agonizing death. Moreover, the shield over Suramar could be exited as a one-way trip, and exile was used in place of execution. There were dissenters in Elisande's new order, far-sighted individuals who realized that Suramar had become a brutal dictatorship and that the supply of arcane magic was, despite the best efforts of Elisande's government to cover it up, beginning to grow unstable. The Arcway was falling into disrepair and strange mutations were beginning to occur among the nightborne. Thalyssra, First Arcanist of Suramar and second in command to Elisande, became convinced that Suramar was on course with unavoidable disaster, and she was right.  Elisande's visions of disaster had not abated, and one day an orc warlock appeared in the royal palace: Gul'dan, but Gul'dan from the Iron Horde's alternate timeline. He had fled into the primary timeline following the Legion's defeat in alternate Draenor, and helped the Legion pierce Suramar's protective shield in advance of the Legion's return to Azeroth (during the Legion expansion for WoW, not WC3). Despite the protests of Thalyssra and her followers, Elisande could see no future in which the Legion was defeated and surrendered. For most of Legion, Suramar would be a vassal state to the Burning Legion as Thalyssra and her supporters waged a civil war against Elisande's regime, drawing in both the Alliance and the Horde with far-reaching consequences. It was night elf druids who solved the curse of the withering, creating a great magical tree known as an arcan'dor that fed on ley lines for sustenance and created a purified form of arcane energy intermixed with life energy. This discovery, and the help of the player characters of both factions, that enabled Thalyssra's rebellion to ultimately overthrow Grand Magistrix Elisande and destroy the unstable Nightwell forever. When the dust settled on Suramar, Thalyssra found both the night elves and the blood elves - the modern-day elves of Quel'thalas - wondering what she and the nightborne would do now.  What ensued remains extremely controversial among the player base. Suramar had been a widely beloved storyline with the fanbase on both sides, held by many to be one of the most compelling long storylines World of Warcraft had ever produced. Both the Alliance and the Horde had very interesting perspectives on the nightborne, the blood elves and orcs with their history of struggling to overcome addiction, the night elves with their history of doomed isolation and ultimately trying to find a balance in the world. The blood elf ambassadors promised of course to support the nightborne and Thalyssra unconditionally, but Tyrande Whisperwind - herself a native of Suramar's highest levels and intimately familiar with the city and its society, was considerably more reserved. Tyrande, though a willing ally of Thalyssra, was concerned that Suramar might fall back into old habits now that the threat of the Legion was gone and asked Thalyssra was if any reforms she intended to make to Suramar and its governance. Thalyssra had after all been Elisande's right hand woman since before the War of the Ancients, and her conflict with Elisande had begun as a purely political disagreement rather than any issue with the nightborne way of life. Thalyssra's response was to join Suramar to the Horde and swear loyalty to the Warchief. She felt stung and insulted by Tyrande's distrust, and told King Anduin Wrynn that she felt that the Alliance was too stagnant and closed off where the Horde was open and vibrant. Nightborne duly became a new playable Horde race. Tyrande left in anger, feeling that Thalyssra had vindicated her doubts, and indeed the nightborne were thus part of the Horde when the Horde committed genocide against the night elves shortly thereafter, slaughtering what a short story confirmed was more than 90% of the night elf race (I will discuss this in more detail later, I will not hesitate to close the thread if folks get into the weeds on this now), dooming the night elves to eventual extinction. As of yet this short story has not been retconned and must thus be taken seriously. The reaction of Alliance players was... not to jump for joy at how the Suramar story was ultimately concluded, but Blizzard's shown no signs of backing down. Thalyssra even got married to the modern-day ruler of Quel'thalas in game, attended by representatives of the people she helped genocide. Hooray?
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Oct 21, 2023 12:30
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That’s all it was about? Concerns over backsliding? Ooooof. And Blizz’s predilection to abandoning plots that go poorly really makes for ugly implications too. Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t this scene also subject to the Alliance and Horde versions being different?
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Oct 21, 2023 13:23
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M.c.P posted:That’s all it was about? Concerns over backsliding? Ooooof. Not entirely, they're different timing. Tyrande is leaving as the Horde arrives I think? But also it's not just the concerns over backsliding, during the Legion campaign Tyrande does explicitly say she only cares about saving the city, not its people, to Thalryssa's face at least once. If I remember correctly, whilst the player themselves (acting outside the Alliance or Horde in Legion) is obviously of great help for the Nightborne that isn't the same for the actual faction representative forces who offer support. Tyrande is dismissive and callous of the Nightborne at the head of a Night Elf Sentinals force, Vareesa Windrunner is not much better at the head of a Silver Covenant force, and only Lady Liadrin and the Blood Elves talk directly about saving the Nightborne people being their highest priority. It's still not a great situation, but they do put in enough effort to make the Nightborne picking the Horde "make sense". It's just that Legion is followed up by BfA and the burning of Teldrassil which make the Nightborne look insane. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 13:32 on Oct 21, 2023 |
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Oct 21, 2023 13:28
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The faction split rears its ugly head again. That nightborne plot sounds genuinely pretty cool! I'm impressed. As for this actual mission, I get the strong impression that originally Blizzard intended for Naga to become a full fifth faction, but then ran out of resources to develop it. All four of the existing factions have a shipyard building available in the editor, each with three ships available to buy (functionally identical but with mostly unique models), but they're never buildable in campaign or skirmish. It looks a lot like the designers were hoping to bring back naval warfare from WC2, made more interesting with a faction that's fully amphibious and doesn't need ships at all. Maybe they realised that would have been terrible.
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Oct 21, 2023 13:31
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Honestly I think that Nightborne joining the horde make sense when you consider that one side offered unconditional aid over the shared pain of magical addiction, while the other side offered nothing but distrust and a lack of care for the lives of the people in the city over the city itself. Edit: Now what happened afterwards, however, is one of the things that I really, really dislike in general about WoW.
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Oct 21, 2023 14:27
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I still can't get over how Reforged's redesign for Maiev was making her helmet not fit.
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Oct 21, 2023 14:31
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Also Christ those Orc skeletons are impossible to read top down.
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Oct 21, 2023 14:34
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Suramar and its questline in Legion was one of the best things that WoW had ever done too, it was a fully explorable decently sized city that you had to sneak around for the questlines.
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Oct 21, 2023 14:36
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everything i learn about WoW is worse than i expected it to be
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Oct 21, 2023 14:48
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Feldegast42 posted:Suramar and its questline in Legion was one of the best things that WoW had ever done too, it was a fully explorable decently sized city that you had to sneak around for the questlines. AN ILLUSION WHAT ARE YOU HIDING
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Oct 21, 2023 14:52
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Siegkrow posted:Honestly I think that Nightborne joining the horde make sense when you consider that one side offered unconditional aid over the shared pain of magical addiction, while the other side offered nothing but distrust and a lack of care for the lives of the people in the city over the city itself. More charitably, it's "You're on our side for now since you're facing annihilation, but you're also a cruel, decadent, tyrannical society that represents the worst extremes of the old Empire. Do you intend to actually change how Suramar is run, or is the new boss same as the old boss just without the apocalypse cult?" Remember, the night elves came to be how they are because of a popular revolt that overthrew literally this exact magocratic aristocracy. Cythereal fucked around with this message at 14:55 on Oct 21, 2023 |
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Oct 21, 2023 14:53
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Cythereal posted:More charitably, it's "You're on our side for now since you're facing annihilation, but you're also a cruel, decadent, tyrannical society that represents the worst extremes of the old Empire. Do you intend to actually change how Suramar is run, or is the new boss same as the old boss just without the apocalypse cult?" Which is still distrust, and a perfectly valid reason for Thalryssa to choose the other side that isn't saying these things. She doesn't have to prove herself to Tyrande, she could choose to, but in the quest for allies who will support and help rebuild Suramar the Blood Elves offered a shared experience of addiction turned to monstrosity and working to break the history of a regime that turned to demons after a decadant isolation was shattered by external and internal forces. BfA (and the Teldrassil stuff specifically) being the follow up makes it look at best stupid and at worst monstrous, but in the isolation of the political question of who the Nightborne find best to ally with to rebuild and secure their home post Legion the Horde offered them understanding and support, the Alliance offered them distrust and insults. BfA/Burning of Teldrassil break a lot of logic around why people are still with the Horde, this isn't unique to the Nightborne. But the specific context of Thalryssa picking between Blood Elves/Horde/Lor'themar and Night Elves/Alliance/Tyrande, one of these groups simply appealed to her more.
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Oct 21, 2023 15:04
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Lord_Magmar posted:Which is still distrust, and a perfectly valid reason for Thalryssa to choose the other side that isn't saying these things. She doesn't have to prove herself to Tyrande, she could choose to, but in the quest for allies who will support and help rebuild Suramar the Blood Elves offered a shared experience of addiction turned to monstrosity and working to break the history of a regime that turned to demons after a decadant isolation was shattered by external and internal forces. I am firmly in the camp that the Nightborne should have been a neutral race that could join either side like the Pandaren.
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Oct 21, 2023 15:06
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Cythereal posted:I am firmly in the camp that the Nightborne should have been a neutral race that could join either side like the Pandaren. That's not the same thing as Thalryssa's political leadership choosing support from the Horde to rebuild though, which is what the actual lore discussion is about. I agree that the Nightborne should have been neutral, but their actional nation should not have been. The Pandaren who are "neutral" are technically two separate political/social groupings too after all. There's also the issue of the difference between player action and lore character action. Players did a lot to support the Nightborne and feel like they should be rewarded for it, especially when the actual initial group of allied races was pretty rough for Horde vs Alliance. Horde got Highmountain Tauren and Nightborne which were both major story groups for the actual initial expansion, Alliance got Void Elves (who literally only had one member in the expansion) and Lighforged (who aren't as different from normal Draenei as Highmountain Tauren are from normal Tauren). So player sentiment is a combination of things. During Legion, the player was not acting as a member of the Horde or Alliance, so their actions don't reflect on the Horde or Alliance. BfA fucks this up (like a lot of stuff) by undoing that situation. Frankly at this point every player race should be allowed to pick Horde or Alliance (and this should really only matter for PvP).
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Oct 21, 2023 15:10
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Lord_Magmar posted:which is what the actual lore discussion is about. The actual lore is a poo poo sandwich topped with sexual assault, fascism, and slathered in self-important nostalgia-addled management, served between two thick, chunky slices of war crimes.
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Oct 21, 2023 15:14
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Okay, into Frozen Throne is where most of the meaningful Reforged, and all of the notable 1.33 changes THAT I KNOW OF stopped. However. One thing that I learned reading this update. When the gently caress did they add Ancient Watchers to your Tech Tree in this campaign??? It couldn't have been Reforged's release... I played through this! I did not have Ancient Watchers when I played this! ...Was it 1.33? Do I need to go back and play the Frozen Throne missions again and look for more changes??? EDIT: checks wiki SENTRIES TOO, WHAT THE HELL, WHEN DID THIS HAPPEN??? But yeah, one more layer to Tyrande's utter disdain for the Nightborne - the revelation that while the rest of Night Elf society not merrily following Azshara off the cliff were fighting and giving their lives to protect their world... the people of Suramar, it turns out, went "gently caress all y'all" and just hid their city in a magic bubble. To the point where they were convinced that there was literally nothing left outside that bubble; that's why they never dropped it. From the Nightborne's perspective, they 100% let the rest of the world die, explode, be destroyed, etc, and just preserved their own city. Hell, for all they knew, Suramar may have just been their shield bubble floating through empty space with the rest of the world simply gone outside. And they were okay with this. Until they learned that the world had survived, despite their inaction. Tyrande despises them for their cowardice. While everyone else was fighting and dying to literally save the planet, Suramar went "gently caress you I've got mine" and locked itself away in a magical immunity vault.
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Oct 21, 2023 15:22
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Cythereal posted:It was night elf druids who solved the curse of the withering, creating a great magical tree known as an arcan'dor that fed on ley lines for sustenance and created a purified form of arcane energy intermixed with life energy. You can't just solve all your problems by planting a tree you hippie assholes. M.c.P posted:Also Christ those Orc skeletons are impossible to read top down. Their old model was cool and distinct so I can only imagine the Reforged one is low quailty.
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Oct 21, 2023 16:11
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You don't have to imagine, they're shown in the update. I do not blame you for failing to notice, if the health bars weren't there I wouldn't have either.
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Oct 21, 2023 16:17
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On a lighter note, remember how Illidan had panda faces on his weapons? Demon Illidan has angry panda faces instead:
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Oct 21, 2023 16:59
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Nostalgamus posted:On a lighter note, remember how Illidan had panda faces on his weapons? At least someone on the Reforged team was having fun.
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Oct 21, 2023 17:47
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I think that's the original game
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Oct 21, 2023 17:59
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life_source posted:You can't just solve all your problems by planting a tree you hippie assholes. Most of those trees end up causing more problems than they solve lol
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Oct 21, 2023 18:00
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I'll take the thread's word on Suramar being fun, but I couldn't stop rolling my eyes at the "Oh, but Gul'Dan is back! From another timeline! And he's still loving things up!" It's just so... insipid, I guess? And I feel like the neutral option for the race would have been best - cast them as exiles from their society because they want to change the hosed up nature of the aristocracy. And now that exile isn't a death sentence, it makes a whole lot of sense. And that sets up potential future plot points to go back and mine with players getting the option to overthrow the dictatorship. It's a win-win all around, which is why Blizzard decided against it.
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Oct 21, 2023 18:14
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Dirk the Average posted:I'll take the thread's word on Suramar being fun, but I couldn't stop rolling my eyes at the "Oh, but Gul'Dan is back! From another timeline! And he's still loving things up!" It's just so... insipid, I guess? We overthrew the dictatorship, it was an entire raid. That's the whole bit, Elisande is dead and her followers with her for the most part. On the Gul'Dan thing it is very funny that canonically he's a absolute shithead in almost every timeline. Edit: Playable Nightborne happened a whole expansion after the Suramar rebellion plotline happened, more or less, the only aristocracy that are left are those who sided with or supported the rebellion, since the rest were supporting Elisande and made the majority of the trash mobs in the raid. Since Suramar Rebellion was the major endgame plot of the original patch of Legion and ended with freeing the city from the tyranny of Elisande helping the exiles reclaim their home and save their people. Then the playable Nightborne was in the very last parts of Legion because Allied Races were a BfA feature. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Oct 21, 2023 |
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Oct 21, 2023 18:20
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A neutral option would have been better, as is true with literally every race in WoW. But I think enough work was done reasonably to explain the choice. Battle For Azeroth fucks everything but Blizzard seems to have just decided to memory hole BFA and Shadowlands and basically pretend nothing happened after Legion.
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Oct 21, 2023 18:36
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| # ? Jun 11, 2024 06:11 |
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The mention of the Night Elves being doomed to extinction due to depopulation reminds me of something; WoW/Warcraft is generally pretty low on Half Elves. We know Humans and Elves can interbreed, unless I'm misremembering, but have they ever said anything about the various species of Elf? Like can a Night Elf/Nightborne and a High/Blood Elf produce viable offspring?
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