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Aggressors are the sort-of melee Gravis, right? Sort of? Also what is the sort-of Phobos Apothecary?
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Oct 20, 2023 02:41
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Captain Magic posted:Aggressors are the sort-of melee Gravis, right? Sort of? The sort of Phobos Apothecary is putting a Helix Adept into your Infiltrator Squad. It does what an apothecary does, and the model has Apothecarion markings on it, but it's not a character. It's kind of an interesting inversion of the Apothecary Biologis, who is officially an apothecary, is called an apothecary, is a character you attach to squads, is molded like an apothecary, but... doesn't do what an apothecary does. Good point on the Aggressors. That spot should at least be sort-of, and probably yes. I always forget Aggressors because I hate how they look. Stephenls fucked around with this message at 02:48 on Oct 20, 2023 |
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Oct 20, 2023 02:43
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BizarroAzrael posted:I suspect the Dark Angels refresh will include Primaris Ravenwing. Maybe a new Talonmaster so at least bike captain can get a "sort of". I'm not counting specialty chapter equivalents, though I won't be surprised if the Primaris Ravenwing includes a generic Bike Captain. Which is honestly the only gap in the array that seems kind of egregious, given that White Scars ought to have access to that. Like, I don't think we need a jump pack techmarine, and the necessity of Gravis Lieutenants is exceedingly debateable.
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Oct 20, 2023 02:46
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Actually, let me just revise that. EDIT: Revised again. The Apothecary Biologis is mechanically a lieutenant. Stephenls fucked around with this message at 04:10 on Oct 20, 2023 |
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Oct 20, 2023 03:01
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They should collapse that down to Captain, Terminator Captain, Phobos Lieutenant, Gravis Apothecary, Techmarine, Bike Chaplain and Kayvaan Shrike so SM players can experience the game like the rest of us.
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Oct 20, 2023 03:16
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I like the idea of a phobos chaplain "Smite them brothers, drive the alien filth back and leave none alive!"
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Oct 20, 2023 03:30
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Eej posted:They should collapse that down to Captain, Terminator Captain, Phobos Lieutenant, Gravis Apothecary, Techmarine, Bike Chaplain and Kayvaan Shrike so SM players can experience the game like the rest of us. I mean, I definitely don't mean to propose this as a list of everything GW still "needs" to make for Space Marines. Nobody's agitating for a Centurion officer corps. Although I am amusing myself by coming up with lore justification for a small kitbashed force where every single unit occupies a red square. Like, the Captain and Chaplain are both in Centurion suits because they're Firstborn and are using the extra armor to bring them closer to the strength of their Primaris troops; the planet they're on has weird electromagnetic fog bullshit that blocks vox transmissions so both Lieutenants are on bikes as they've taken the role of, basically, messengers to quickly distribute orders to dispersed forces; the Apothecary is in the only available Terminator suit because the chapter really values geneseed recovery and protection; the troops are all in weird mishmashed Omnis armor for equipment salvage reasons and they're all using close-range loadouts because the fog makes ranged engagements impractical; and the Librarian is in a Gravis suit because there's warp bullshittery afoot and he's using the extra armor to guard from its effects. Eediot Jedi posted:I like the idea of a phobos chaplain Litanies of Hate ASMR. Stephenls fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Oct 20, 2023 |
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Oct 20, 2023 03:41
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Eej posted:They should collapse that down to Captain, Terminator Captain, Phobos Lieutenant, Gravis Apothecary, Techmarine, Bike Chaplain and Kayvaan Shrike so SM players can experience the game like the rest of us. I won’t be happy until we have cooks and quartermasters, personally
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Oct 20, 2023 03:42
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Stephenls posted:I was bored so I made up another array. aggressors are gravis melee infantry "omnis" is a fanon name. GW waffles between calling suppressors tacticus and just not calling them anything phobos melee infantry should be "sort of"
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Oct 20, 2023 05:16
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Cease to Hope posted:aggressors are gravis melee infantry Correct, hence my revision. Cease to Hope posted:"omnis" is a fanon name. GW waffles between calling suppressors tacticus and just not calling them anything  Taken from page 76 of the 2nd edition of the 8th edition Space Marine codex. (Also that entry is a fuckin' lie; they're entirely Tacticus and Phobos. The only Gravis-like thing on them is the thwomp stompers, but they're wearing them over what are clearly the same Tacticus legs the new Jump Pack Assault Intercessors use.) Cease to Hope posted:phobos melee infantry should be "sort of" I figure Reivers with knives and bolt pistols are melee-dedicated enough that it'd be disingenuous to claim Space Marines don't really have a melee Phobos option. They're bad at it, but it's still their dedicated role; they're not dedicated to anything else. They suck, but that's just Reivers for you. (Arguably the grav vanes and grapnel launchers are trying to make them the same sort of high-mobility melee troop that jump pack assault marines are attempting to be in the heavier armor categories, just with lighter equipment more suited for use with the Phobos armor.) Stephenls fucked around with this message at 08:11 on Oct 20, 2023 |
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Oct 20, 2023 05:44
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Stephenls posted:[image] oh poo poo mb on the omnis thing, huh. anyway it's just a joke about how reivers suck rear end lol
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Oct 20, 2023 09:56
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Holy moly you guys, i started to dig through my 2002 stuff, wow we bought alot more stuff than i remembered from back then! We even have a squad of eldar, three gargoyles, eldrad ulthwe and avatar of kaine!! I found the old 3rd edition army i painted when i was a child! Ill post a photo soon! Also, i found a metal sprue of a tyranid monster but i dont know what it is and if its still valid got the game, can any of you identify it for me?  Also are 3 gargoyles a unit?
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Oct 20, 2023 15:26
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Al-Saqr posted:Also, i found a metal sprue of a tyranid monster but i dont know what it is and if its still valid got the game, can any of you identify it for me? That's an early Ravener model. For a unit of them now you need at least 3 raveners, or 10+ gargoyles.
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Oct 20, 2023 16:00
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Jump pack techmarine that can't actually bring any repair tools with them duw to the jump pack
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Oct 20, 2023 17:04
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Lol I had never seen how short the pewter Avatar was
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Oct 20, 2023 20:10
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Pretty sure GW put up some size comparison image when the new one came out. Found it, even if I thought it was a comparison of all the Avatars they had made. 
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Oct 20, 2023 20:13
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Avatar of Khaine Babies, making dreams come truuuue
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Oct 20, 2023 20:23
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The first one was on a 25mm base.
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Oct 20, 2023 20:36
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Lol I had never seen how short the pewter Avatar was it was the size of a greater demon, when it came out. and for a good while after, too.
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Oct 20, 2023 20:45
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Cease to Hope posted:it was the size of a greater demon, when it came out. and for a good while after, too. The orginal was even shorter. It looked stupid compared to the orginal dreadnought.
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Oct 20, 2023 21:02
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drat lol I guess my Avatar is no longer valid for games lol. I wonder if my Ulthwe is still good...
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Oct 20, 2023 21:23
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Cooked Auto posted:Pretty sure GW put up some size comparison image when the new one came out. their swords seems to be nearly the same size, which very much adds to the "do not come near me or my son" energy
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Oct 20, 2023 21:27
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Al-Saqr posted:drat lol I guess my Avatar is no longer valid for games lol. Put him on the right sized base and give him a hell of a tactical rock and you'd probably be fine.
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Oct 20, 2023 21:29
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Super Waffle posted:Put him on the right sized base and give him a hell of a tactical rock and you'd probably be fine. Just fill his base with tiny Epic marines shooting at him so it's actually a scaled down diorama
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Oct 20, 2023 21:51
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Super Waffle posted:Put him on the right sized base and give him a hell of a tactical rock and you'd probably be fine. Do base sizes matter? People in my local area were at me to re-base all my infantry, both my regular guards and my heavy weapon teams. I've found nothing in the rulebook that says bases need to be a certain size for certain units. I bought a commissar and primaris psyker recently, the commissar is on a 25mm, the psyker 32mm I think? I'm being told the commissar must be re-based, even though GW sold me this base this year. I'm refusing so far, no one seems to mind really, but people are saying I'm technically breaking rules. I cannot find that rule anywhere, but maybe I'm blind and missing it.
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Oct 20, 2023 22:39
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Virtual Russian posted:Do base sizes matter? It's a tournament thing.
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Oct 20, 2023 22:48
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Exactly as I thought, it isn't a rule and I don't have to re-base. Thanks
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Oct 20, 2023 22:52
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It is unfair though because you can cram more poo poo into the same space. It doesn't matter in casual games is all.
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Oct 20, 2023 22:54
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I'm playing fluffy mech guard, no amount of jamming is going to save the ten guys that bail out of a Chimera, plus it probably balances out with the heavy weapons being bigger. I only play casually. People in my area do go hard and some have a hard time chilling. As I've mentioned a few times, in the intro game of 40k they ran with me the guy teaching me also tried his hardest to table me as fast as possible. I don't play with him. I'm in a pretty rural part of Canada and the local scene is like 6 guys that have only played with eachother for a quite a while. They are very nice overall, and seem thrilled to have some new blood in the mix, but wow sometimes I have to remind them I'm new. The town about an hour away has a far healthier scene and I've had really good experiences there.
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Oct 20, 2023 23:03
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Going to thank you again because they also have this wrong, I don't need to rebase my infantry, they are on the correct bases according to these. It only seems my heavy weapon teams are oversized.
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Oct 20, 2023 23:07
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I would expect it to be fine if you say ‘That’s a lot of work and I’d like to be able to ply in the meantime, let me know if you think the difference is giving me an advantage and we can work it out’ Ton of my miniatures are on wrong bases because they are old models, no one seems to mind because I’m mostly bumbling through combat patrol and small games and it’s not being used to any benefit.
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Oct 20, 2023 23:23
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Virtual Russian posted:Going to thank you again because they also have this wrong, I don't need to rebase my infantry, they are on the correct bases according to these. It only seems my heavy weapon teams are oversized. cool
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Oct 20, 2023 23:26
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So even better, I haven't been using the heavy weapons yet as I've mostly just played Combat Patrol or didn't run Infantry Squads. I haven't actually finished the bases on the heavy weapons so I could easily pop them off and re-base those. Then I'll just have to politely point out that my infantry are already fine. There is another guard player, he has his all on 30mm or 32mm, I forget. I'm going to guess that because there are no tournaments out this way they've just assumed base sizes changed in a universal way at some point? I wouldn't think different tournaments would require different bases, that would seem insane.
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Oct 20, 2023 23:34
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Rule of thumb is generally whatever the base size is packaged with the latest box of the model is the legal one. Huron Blackheart is an old model so he's a 80 point Chaos Lord on a 25mm base and he's super hideable around corners.
Eej fucked around with this message at 01:01 on Oct 21, 2023 |
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Oct 20, 2023 23:46
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Virtual Russian posted:So even better, I haven't been using the heavy weapons yet as I've mostly just played Combat Patrol or didn't run Infantry Squads. I haven't actually finished the bases on the heavy weapons so I could easily pop them off and re-base those. Then I'll just have to politely point out that my infantry are already fine. There is another guard player, he has his all on 30mm or 32mm, I forget. I'm going to guess that because there are no tournaments out this way they've just assumed base sizes changed in a universal way at some point? I wouldn't think different tournaments would require different bases, that would seem insane. 40k doesn't actually have any rules about base sizes, which is kind of insane considering how much they matter. Also kind of insane considering Age of Sigmar has had rules for base sizes since first edition. This leads to confusion like this. Anyway, the unofficial or semi official stance from GW is that you can use whatever base the model came with. However, this is obviously unsatisfactory, since base sizes have gotten larger over the years* (basically everything that wasn't a monster was on 25mms a while back) so older models would weirdly be better, so the community has made it's own rules by compiling lists of base sizes (like you linked earlier) based on the base that comes with the newest version of that model. However base size matters less in 40k than in AOS due to the way melee works, so it doesn't really matter all that much if the base size of a unit is a size off in either direction, and won't cause any problems at all unless you go to a particularly serious and sweaty tournament. *Heavy weapons teams being the only exception I can remember, since their base shrank by 10mm when they received their latest model.
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Oct 21, 2023 00:10
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Yeah I played back in the late 90s and early 00s and remember there being only like 2 base sizes.
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Oct 21, 2023 00:20
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Virtual Russian posted:Going to thank you again because they also have this wrong, I don't need to rebase my infantry, they are on the correct bases according to these. It only seems my heavy weapon teams are oversized. commissars are technically on 28mm, not 25mm fwiw. anyone calling foul on that is an rear end in a top hat but it is what it is Geisladisk posted:Anyway, the unofficial or semi official stance from GW is that you can use whatever base the model came with. I literally just linked GW's tournament rules that the base needs to be at least as large as the current model's. that's only the way the rule works for GW-run events though Cease to Hope fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Oct 21, 2023 |
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Oct 21, 2023 00:25
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The commissar is on whatever base I got in the pack, probably 28, less than 30 for sure.
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Oct 21, 2023 00:49
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How important is the base on the CSM Warpsmith? I got this guy who looks like he'd be great as a fancier leader for the Havoc squad in Combat Patrol, but the weird oblong base doesn't work with the restrictions on that mode of play. At the same time, if he's lacking the oblong base, does this render him "illegal" to be played as a Warpsmith proper in other modes?
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Oct 21, 2023 00:55
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Technically he would be illegal but I don't think most people would care cause he doesn't shoot or fight anything anyway, hopefully
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Oct 21, 2023 01:02
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