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Xiahou Dun posted:I'd bet a nominal amount of money that Chesebro has copious notes because he's a titanic nerd with absolute poo poo judgement. Did you see the NYT article from 2 days ago? He's writing emails that basically go, "I'm definitely not acting as a lawyer so none of this is protected and also I think its criminal stuff were doing!", So yeah, it's likely all meticulously written down and he maybe even has audio tapes.
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Oct 20, 2023 19:51
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:LOL if that is all he gets then he is getting off incredibly lightly! Its the way it goes in this sort of situation when you are going after a mob kingpin, or Trump. You start low, tell all the underlings you have them dead to rights for serious felonies, and maybe at first they hold firm, but the first traitor gets the best deal. Sidney Powell got a great deal. Cheesebro got a deal that was pretty good, but not as good as Sidney's. The other rats know they are screwed now and are all probably wondering how bad their deal will be if they don't run to the state to confess now. Eventually the deals will get to "the rest of you who have not yet talked to us are definitely going to prison, the only question is how long?"
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Oct 20, 2023 19:53
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:man, as a legal layman it seems like if two lawyers have flipped in a rico case trump's only hope at this point is either a bad faith chud on the jury or the supreme court throwing him a lifeline on some crazy executive privilege theory of essentially it's not a crime if the president does it I mean, to be fair, they are very bad at their job so one could be excused for not wanting to just accept their judgement on legal matters compared to if they were almost any other lawyer Fuschia tude fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Oct 20, 2023 |
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Oct 20, 2023 19:54
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Xiahou Dun posted:What the hell does a defense even look like now for Trump? Jury nullification essentially. Yell a lot and hope you have a chud on the jury who will vote to acquit regardless. Then you have a hung jury and you repeat until either you run into a chudless jury or Trump gets elected and pardons himself. Once President there is a decent constitutional argument barring state level prosecution under federal supremacy doctrine (states can't interfere with the function of the federal government).
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Oct 20, 2023 19:58
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Murgos posted:Did you see the NYT article from 2 days ago? He's writing emails that basically go, "I'm definitely not acting as a lawyer so none of this is protected and also I think its criminal stuff were doing!", So yeah, it's likely all meticulously written down and he maybe even has audio tapes.  I don’t make bets if I can lose.
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Oct 20, 2023 20:03
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Jury nullification essentially. Yell a lot and hope you have a chud on the jury who will vote to acquit regardless. Then you have a hung jury and you repeat until either you run into a chudless jury or Trump gets elected and pardons himself. Once President there is a decent constitutional argument barring state level prosecution under federal supremacy doctrine (states can't interfere with the function of the federal government). He's gunna request a "Necessity" defense lol
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Oct 20, 2023 20:04
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Jury nullification essentially. Yell a lot and hope you have a chud on the jury who will vote to acquit regardless. Then you have a hung jury and you repeat until either you run into a chudless jury or Trump gets elected and pardons himself. Once President there is a decent constitutional argument barring state level prosecution under federal supremacy doctrine (states can't interfere with the function of the federal government). Even if that argument were to prevail, wouldn't it just toll the statutes until he was out of office again?
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Oct 20, 2023 20:05
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Fuschia tude posted:Even if that argument were to prevail, wouldn't it just toll the statutes until he was out of office again? In the very long term we're all dead anyway. I'm sure Trump's plan in that situation would simply be to never leave office. Nobody, not even his supporters, think Trump is innocent. Everyone knows he's constantly doing crimes. His supporters just think that's cool and good.
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Oct 20, 2023 20:06
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Fuschia tude posted:Even if that argument were to prevail, wouldn't it just toll the statutes until he was out of office again? I don’t think “out of office again” is a thing he ever plans to be.
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Oct 20, 2023 20:10
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Judge Engoron just announced that he decided to fine Trump $5,000, but won't hold him in contempt for violating the gag order.
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Oct 20, 2023 20:35
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Presumably the fraud defense in New York is going for the antagonize the court hard enough that slip up and say/do something they can win a mistrial appeal on.
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Oct 20, 2023 20:38
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Judge Engoron just announced that he decided to fine Trump $5,000, but won't hold him in contempt for violating the gag order. https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1715451567715860585
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Oct 20, 2023 20:42
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Asproigerosis posted:Presumably the fraud defense in New York is going for the antagonize the court hard enough that slip up and say/do something they can win a mistrial appeal on. Not as crazy as it might sound. I've seen lawyers deliberately piss off judges just to try to look like the victim in front of the jury, too.
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Oct 20, 2023 20:42
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Like I know Trump's finances are probably taking a hit with all these trials going on but come on really a $5000 fine? Trump probably wipes his rear end with $5000.
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Oct 20, 2023 20:50
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I bet Trump is that mytical guy who doesn't wipe his rear end because "it's gay"
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Oct 20, 2023 20:51
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Judge Engoron just announced that he decided to fine Trump $5,000, but won't hold him in contempt for violating the gag order. Real “in its majestic equality” moment here. This might as well be nothing.
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Oct 20, 2023 20:53
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Gross as it is to contemplate, from Trump's perspective rallying the subscribers to his cult of personality is probably well worth $5,000. I mean, if some salesman literally offered to rally his base in exchange for 5 grand I think he'd easily choose to buy the service. And later screw the seller by refusing to pay the invoice lololol
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Oct 20, 2023 21:06
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I think it was the twitter case where the judge initially ruled for a pretty puny fine that eventually became a couple hundred thousand, and very quickly could have become larger than the gdp of the US.
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Oct 20, 2023 21:26
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Charliegrs posted:Like I know Trump's finances are probably taking a hit with all these trials going on but come on really a $5000 fine? Trump probably wipes his rear end with $5000. vvvvvvv Exactly. DTurtle fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Oct 20, 2023 |
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Oct 20, 2023 21:28
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I assume the nominal fine is one more step on the "I'm building a paper trail of your contempt of court for future use" escalator.
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Oct 20, 2023 21:48
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Arsenic Lupin posted:I assume the nominal fine is one more step on the "I'm building a paper trail of your contempt of court for future use" escalator. The nominal fine is because nobody is willing to do the things actually required to stop him from violating judicial orders.
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Oct 20, 2023 22:06
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There’s a ton of eyeballs on this, as we’re getting into uncharted legal waters, and I imagine they don’t want to drop on the ball on some technicality. I mean, you may be right if we get to violation 50 and the judge says this time they’re actually going to slap his wrist instead of just threatening to do so
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Oct 20, 2023 22:35
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DC Circuit shot down the Robertson appeal I don't think it's come up often in the thread, but a Jan6'er appealed his obstruction conviction with a focus on two theories: One was that the jury was improperly instructed on the meaning of "Corruptly" as an element of obstruction charges. His preferred definition required the act to be done dishonestly and with a hope or expectation of financial benefit to oneself or one's associate. There are a number of Jan 6 folks (and unindicted coconspirators with Trump) who were watching this one closely and hoping his definition would prevail - specifically the "dishonestly" portion, which they theorized would bring back a sincere belief Trump had won as a defense. The majority stance? quote:Robertson's contention that his definition of "Corruptly" is the sole and exclusive meaning of that term finds no support in the text, structure, or context of the statute, and is inconsistent with relevant precedents  Second, benefits. "My preferred candidate is elected president", holds many eager onlookers, isn't a benefit for the purposes of the obstruction charge because if it were, the element would be so broad as to be worthless. Here, this also found purchase with the dissenting (Republican appointed) judge. The dissent holds that dicta from previous concurrences has transmogrified in to a holding this Court is bound by. After slapping around that concept for a minute, the majority has a little fun quote:The dissent claims that we are bound by Judge Walker's view that "corruptly" requires the defendant to act with the intent of obtaining an unlawful benefit for himself or another. Fart Amplifier posted:The nominal fine is because nobody is willing to do the things actually required to stop him from violating judicial orders. "We're restricting your rights preemptively because we suspect you may do something impermissible later" is generally and for good reason frowned upon in these settings, regardless of the target.
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Oct 20, 2023 22:36
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Simplex posted:I think it was the twitter case where the judge initially ruled for a pretty puny fine that eventually became a couple hundred thousand, and very quickly could have become larger than the gdp of the US.
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Oct 20, 2023 22:54
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InsertPotPun posted:that fine compounded by day. this is a one time foof. for the moment; his language at the end of the order for "if your conduct doesn't improve I'm going to keep doing sanctions and you'll Iike those a lot less" is p strong for judge-ese
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Oct 20, 2023 23:00
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As we've been over many times before, the court system is hitting him with kid gloves out of an abundance of caution so if they ever do hit him with something harder, no one can say they threw the book at him as a personal vendetta thing. But he will say it anyway, and millions of his dumbass followers will believe it. Yet they continue to give him every possible courtesy.
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Oct 20, 2023 23:01
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Trump will live in poo poo talking central the next few days https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1715459813595889972 https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1715483191333507100
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Oct 20, 2023 23:21
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Jury nullification essentially. Yell a lot and hope you have a chud on the jury who will vote to acquit regardless. Then you have a hung jury and you repeat until either you run into a chudless jury or Trump gets elected and pardons himself. Once President there is a decent constitutional argument barring state level prosecution under federal supremacy doctrine (states can't interfere with the function of the federal government). Kinda nerve wracking that this whole thing might come down to voir dire.
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Oct 21, 2023 00:01
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Shooting Blanks posted:Kinda nerve wracking that this whole thing might come down to voir dire. Voiry dire indeed 
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Oct 21, 2023 01:11
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Paracaidas posted:
Again, he’s done many impermissible things already. But for some reason even though they could be taken notice of, since they are very well documented, they aren’t. In not holding Trump to the same standards as everyone else he is in fact being given extra special treatment.
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Oct 21, 2023 01:32
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Do these guilty pleas make it more likey that Trump's trial will happen on time?
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Oct 21, 2023 02:21
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Murgos posted:Again, he’s done many impermissible things already. But for some reason even though they could be taken notice of, since they are very well documented, they aren’t. No, he's being held to the same standards as everyone else in his tier. I don't know why everyone keeps acting surprised that the US Justice System comes in two tiers, and wondering why the rich guy former President isn't being treated like a poor and weak normal person. Should there be two tiers? No, but that's the reality we live in. As such it's weird that people keep expecting Donald "45" Trump to be treated with the same disrespect shown to someone with a public defender.
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Oct 21, 2023 02:56
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It's not that I don't expect it; it's that the disparity is worth highlighting.
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Oct 21, 2023 03:18
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Gyges posted:No, he's being held to the same standards as everyone else in his tier. I don't know why everyone keeps acting surprised that the US Justice System comes in two tiers, and wondering why the rich guy former President isn't being treated like a poor and weak normal person. There's a difference between "horrified" and "surprised".
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Oct 21, 2023 03:35
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There are two types of people in this country, those that
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Oct 21, 2023 04:27
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Surprised more of the Georgia people haven’t plead out. Lots of small fish in there who I’m sure can’t afford a lawyer for the giant omnibus case with Trump. I would certainly take a misdemeanor probation just to get it done with, especially since they are generally first offense white collar crimes,
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Oct 21, 2023 14:51
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Scratch Monkey posted:I bet Trump is that mytical guy who doesn't wipe his rear end because "it's gay" Absolutely. Having a bathroom attendant do it for you puts all homosexual ideation on the underling and keeps you 100% hetero.
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Oct 21, 2023 15:58
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smackfu posted:Surprised more of the Georgia people haven’t plead out. Lots of small fish in there who I’m sure can’t afford a lawyer for the giant omnibus case with Trump. I would certainly take a misdemeanor probation just to get it done with, especially since they are generally first offense white collar crimes, yeah i think we're going to see more low-level dominos fall relatively quickly. if i was one of those Coffee County guys that isn't famous i would want to get the gently caress out of this trial while it's still possible to get out of likely prison time via cooperation, because that opportunity may disappear eventually
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Oct 21, 2023 16:41
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smackfu posted:Surprised more of the Georgia people haven’t plead out. Lots of small fish in there who I’m sure can’t afford a lawyer for the giant omnibus case with Trump. I would certainly take a misdemeanor probation just to get it done with, especially since they are generally first offense white collar crimes, As we saw with Powell and Chesebro, the pressure doesn't really build on them until the trial date is imminently looming and they've lost all their procedural motions. They generally have Trump-provided lawyers who get them out on bail, it's not like they're sitting in jail for the next six months.
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Oct 21, 2023 16:41
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smackfu posted:Surprised more of the Georgia people haven’t plead out. Lots of small fish in there who I’m sure can’t afford a lawyer for the giant omnibus case with Trump. I would certainly take a misdemeanor probation just to get it done with, especially since they are generally first offense white collar crimes, So either hubris or idolatry. They’ll imagine grand schemes or 12th dimensional scenarios to keep the faith that everything will work out…until they’re finally in a cell. So yeah, a few people are self-preserving enough to flip, but you’ll have a fair amount that will go down to the bitter end.
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Oct 21, 2023 16:46
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