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Cuttlefush
Jan 15, 2014

gotta have my purp

Some Guy TT posted:

whoa im seein double here. eight wars!

8 wars, grimsby

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ProfessorBooty
Jan 25, 2004

Amulet of the Dark
Starting to think the last 300 years wasn't really worth it.

edit: gently caress it, last 3000 years.

hey mom its 420
May 12, 2007

zionists turning out to be real jerks!

Sancho Banana
Aug 4, 2023

Not to be confused with meat.

gradenko_2000 posted:

on the topic of intentionality as a prerequisite for genocide:




now doesn't that all sound familiar

source is Mike Davis's "Late Victorian Holocausts"

Yeah, the "intentionality" argument is really rotten. I'm reminded of the distinction Matthew Restall made between "genocidal in intent" and "genocidal in effect" -

Matthew Restall posted:

There is a final step to take. What we must contemplate are battles comprising hours of casual slaughter, massacres of civilian populations, each side driven by what they have witnessed to commit their own atrocities, internecine violence, mass mutilations of prisoners, entire towns butchered or enslaved, families torn apart, women raped or forced into long-term sexual slavery, an apocalypse of violence striking the center and then devastating one region after another in waves lasting decades. The sum of all this so resoundingly makes the case that the “Conquest of Mexico” should be seen as a war—not a conquest war, not a short war, and certainly not a surprisingly short war, but fully and categorically a war—that it in fact does more than that. It suggests that we might do better to understand it as a genocidal war.

Genocide is, of course, a loaded and controversial term. There has been resistance to the application of the term to the extermination of indigenous peoples in North America—despite exhaustive recent studies that make powerful arguments for its relevance. As a term coined and officially defined by the United Nations in the 1940s, it is also anachronistic to the sixteenth century. A genocide requires, by definition, state policy of the kind not found in the Spanish world of five centuries ago (where the state was a far cry from modern).
[...]
What I am suggesting, therefore, in rhetorical rather than categorical terms, is that the Spanish wars of invasion were genocidal not in intent, but in effect. Within what was in effect the genocidal Spanish-Aztec War, there occurred micro-genocidal moments. In town after town—Cholollan, Tepeaca, Quecholac, Cuauhnahuac, and even Tenochtitlan itself—the slaughter of combatants was followed or accompanied by the massacre of civilians and the enslavement and often deportation of survivors, most notably young women and children. The impact of such attacks on these communities was catastrophic and permanent (genocidal in effect) and tinged with a hint of deliberate destruction (genocidal in intent). For rightly perceiving that there were millions of indigenous Mesoamericans, Spanish captains were willing to obliterate certain communities knowing that there were hundreds of others. The survival of those communities—the cultural and demographic persistence of Nahuas and other indigenous peoples through these wars and up to the present—has helped to mask the fact of those micro-genocidal moments.
Even if we accept that Spanish institutional or governmental policy was not genocidal in intent, and indeed often comprised laws designed to protect and encourage the proliferation of indigenous communities, the fact remains that an invasion war could only be genocidal in effect with official acquiescence. Underlying the sixteenth-century Spanish debate regarding the nature of New World “Indians” lay an assumption that they had no rights until the Crown determined that they did, and that the limits to those rights and the loopholes in the laws permitted Spaniards to behave accordingly. A Spaniard who killed another Spaniard faced judicial retribution (or at least personal retribution that was state-sanctioned); but a Spaniard could kill or enslave an “Indian” with impunity if that victim met two simple criteria— being “Indian” and offering resistance.

From When Montezuma met Cortes.

Sancho Banana has issued a correction as of 09:05 on Oct 21, 2023

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

ProfessorBooty posted:

Starting to think the last 300 years wasn't really worth it.

edit: gently caress it, last 3000 years.

When you look at what's happened now, oh, my god, the rhetoric from both sides. Didn't we learn anything from World War II? Didn't we learn anything from the Holocaust?

Didn't we learn anything from human beings ability to other human beings? To turn them into a thing that's not them, dehumanize them, and that there's this impulse to do so that existed forever.

Because when we were tribal people that barely had a language, you had to be absolutely terrified of marauding male tribes. They came over your border and wanted to kill you and take your resources and steal your women because that's what they did.

And so we have this ability to look at other human beings as an other and get ruthless and horrifyingly violent because that was the only way for us to survive for thousands of years. It's ingrained in our system.

But it now exists in the context of global war. And it exists in a time where you can manipulate media and spread false narratives and governments are allowed to use propaganda, they're allowed to lie to people, if it's for the overall good of the nation.

It's wild. The root of the issue is how every human being sort of reluctantly admits that there's almost no way to stop all wars. Right now, if you had a magic solution to stop all wars in the world, what would it be?

It doesn't exist, that's terrifying because the thing that we are scared of the most is Global Thermonuclear War. The thing that everybody should be the most terrified of is that we get so stupid, that we wipe every human being off the face of the planet, and we're more than capable of doing it some insane number of times over and they're playing with the very first steps of that game.

They've moved the first pawn out onto the chessboard of the Global Thermonuclear War chess game.

Stringent
Dec 22, 2004


image text goes here
can someone who knows something about law explain where this intent bullshit comes from?

like, if you get busted with a pound of heroin, you're getting charged with intent to distribute, regardless of whether that was your intent or not. so how does this intent stuff just start showing up when you're talking about financial crimes, murder, genocide, etc?

DancingShade
Jul 26, 2007

by Fluffdaddy

Stringent posted:

can someone who knows something about law explain where this intent bullshit comes from?

like, if you get busted with a pound of heroin, you're getting charged with intent to distribute, regardless of whether that was your intent or not. so how does this intent stuff just start showing up when you're talking about financial crimes, murder, genocide, etc?

I think this is best explained via the gallon of pcp story: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFUvmZWf4hI

Al-Saqr
Nov 11, 2007

One Day I Will Return To Your Side.
please dont watch this video if youre prone to apocalyptic fits of anueryism-anger like me, but its important to see how depraved and evil israeli society is and why israel must be destroyed

https://twitter.com/_saker__/status/1715275823207350494?s=46&t=kY7HKwmb1RBg9U186lxtbg

Goon Boots
Feb 2, 2020


Sancho Banana posted:

Yeah, the "intentionality" argument is really rotten. I'm reminded of the distinction Matthew Restall made between "genocidal in intent" and "genocidal in effect" -

From When Montezuma met Cortes.

lol micro-genocidal moments, new from precious moments

just a little genoicde, as a treat

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

Al-Saqr posted:

please dont watch this video if youre prone to apocalyptic fits of anueryism-anger like me, but its important to see how depraved and evil israeli society is and why israel must be destroyed

https://twitter.com/_saker__/status/1715275823207350494?s=46&t=kY7HKwmb1RBg9U186lxtbg

hey remember when saying that crisis actors exist used to be the standard by which we decided who was an evil nazi goblin that needed be censored weird how that doesnt seem to apply for this kind of thing

dads friend steve
Dec 24, 2004

thank u genocide Joe for making sure the trucks run on time

Death By The Blues
Oct 30, 2011
Those aid truck is mostly only medical aid and absolutely no fuel so doesn't help with the hospitals remaining open in terms of power.

30.5 Days
Nov 19, 2006

Some Guy TT posted:

hey remember when saying that crisis actors exist used to be the standard by which we decided who was an evil nazi goblin that needed be censored weird how that doesnt seem to apply for this kind of thing

Zionists have been making up stories about crisis actors longer then either of us have been alive ("paliwood")

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

30.5 Days posted:

Zionists have been making up stories about crisis actors longer then either of us have been alive ("paliwood")

do israelis also think that palestinians control the banks because im not sure thats any less bizarre than their thinking that palestinians control hollywood

Sancho Banana
Aug 4, 2023

Not to be confused with meat.

Some Guy TT posted:

hey remember when saying that crisis actors exist used to be the standard by which we decided who was an evil nazi goblin that needed be censored weird how that doesnt seem to apply for this kind of thing

Is she talking about crisis actors or is she just being like "lol doing your makeup while you're being brutally bombed is funny"

hey mom its 420
May 12, 2007

probably only aspirin allowed on those trucks, maybe some bandaids

smarxist
Jul 26, 2018

by Fluffdaddy

DancingShade posted:

I think this is best explained via the gallon of pcp story: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFUvmZWf4hI

its so stupid Trevor Moore wasn't mega famous

salartarium
Sep 7, 2021

ProfessorBooty posted:

Starting to think the last 300 years wasn't really worth it.

edit: gently caress it, last 3000 years.

All has gone downhill since Rome and Carthage made peace in 1985.

Captain Magic
Apr 4, 2005

Yes, we have feathers--but the muscles of men.
the difference between intent and impact is a useful differentiation for interpersonal relations because both matter but one or the other is often ignored; bring it up next time you have a disagreement with a loved one and it’ll probably help!

philosophically it bothers the gently caress out of me when people misread “intent” as “desire.”

like I can desire to drive from New York to LA in one tank of gas, but I could never intend to because I know it’s not possible

so there’s like, “they didn’t intend to kill the civilians, they wanted to get the arms cache!” But they did intend it, though. They know how bombs work, even if they were aiming for something else. They operated with the knowledge that their actions would have a fairly narrow range of consequences.

they were actually aiming for civilians though

Bootleg Trunks
Jun 12, 2020

Al-Saqr posted:

please dont watch this video if youre prone to apocalyptic fits of anueryism-anger like me, but its important to see how depraved and evil israeli society is and why israel must be destroyed

https://twitter.com/_saker__/status/1715275823207350494?s=46&t=kY7HKwmb1RBg9U186lxtbg

i hate that we're subservient to this

BeanpolePeckerwood
May 4, 2004

I MAY LOOK LIKE SHIT BUT IM ALSO DUMB AS FUCK



Zoeb
Oct 8, 2023

Dislike me? Don't spend $10 on a title. Donate to the Palestinian Red Crescent or Doctors Without Borders
https://www.palestinercs.org/en
https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/
Genocide Joe vs Hitler 2.0.

I have skin in this fight. I am genuinely terrified about a second Trump presidency stripping me and my partners of our rights as trans gender people. The dominionists, the white christian fascist chuds terrify me. The rhetoric coming from them is also genocidal, an in particular, genocidal against me and my chosen family. I genuinely don't know what to do. Joe Biden has flat refused to move from his position and we have no alternative. He is 100% eagerly on board with everything the Israel lobby does and says and the party is punishing people who deviate from the party line on this. There is no democracy here. There is no choice here. Bernie Sanders, flawed as he was, was our last off ramp on the highway to the apocalypse when the moderates screwed him and convinced low information voters in South Carolina that he hated Black people and that Biden was the only one who could defeat Trump.

I am so broken right now. I got a call from the DSA asking me to call my representatives. Why?

There's other stuff I feel too that I don't feel comfortable talking about here.

Stinky Wizzleteats
Nov 26, 2015

You must pay the price for this post.
Stop agonizing over the false choice of who to vote for and start agonizing over the real choice of which border to hop

Zoeb
Oct 8, 2023

Dislike me? Don't spend $10 on a title. Donate to the Palestinian Red Crescent or Doctors Without Borders
https://www.palestinercs.org/en
https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/

Stinky Wizzleteats posted:

Stop agonizing over the false choice of who to vote for and start agonizing over the real choice of which border to hop

That falls under the stuff I won't discuss publicly. I am making sure to take classes in graduate school in international accounting on the off chance I might have to flee the country but still want to have a job. Other countries use IFRS while accounting programs in the US mainly teach US GAAP.

Stinky Wizzleteats
Nov 26, 2015

You must pay the price for this post.
Stop paying your taxes too

smarxist
Jul 26, 2018

by Fluffdaddy

Zoeb posted:

That falls under the stuff I won't discuss publicly.

smarter than most of cspam, including me

Zoeb
Oct 8, 2023

Dislike me? Don't spend $10 on a title. Donate to the Palestinian Red Crescent or Doctors Without Borders
https://www.palestinercs.org/en
https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/

Stinky Wizzleteats posted:

Stop paying your taxes too

[redacted]

Cuttlefush
Jan 15, 2014

gotta have my purp

Stinky Wizzleteats posted:

Stop paying your taxes too

allegedly the irs got more people so this strat may no longer be viable at all income brackets

Stinky Wizzleteats
Nov 26, 2015

You must pay the price for this post.
You're right to be cautious, cia stooge Eliot Higgins lurks this thread

toggle
Nov 7, 2005

has there ever been any sanctions against israel? (lmao)

Goon Boots
Feb 2, 2020


Zoeb posted:

[redacted]

irs spook: sorry, could you speak louder into the keyboard please

Al-Saqr
Nov 11, 2007

One Day I Will Return To Your Side.
explosion reported at the israeli embassy in Cyprus

https://twitter.com/alarabytv/status/1715651407125062134?s=46&t=kY7HKwmb1RBg9U186lxtbg

Phigs
Jan 23, 2019

Trump vs Biden is just something we talk about because it can be interesting in an alternative history kind of way. But essentially nobody in CSPAM is going to put any energy into electing either one over the other. The consensus is vote if you want to but don't waste any energy in electoralism as it would be better doing literally anything else to help your fellow human beings.

Cuttlefush
Jan 15, 2014

gotta have my purp

toggle posted:

has there ever been any sanctions against israel? (lmao)

Arab League boycott. a few others I think

Zoeb
Oct 8, 2023

Dislike me? Don't spend $10 on a title. Donate to the Palestinian Red Crescent or Doctors Without Borders
https://www.palestinercs.org/en
https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/
So a complete and utter ding dong from a place that isn't here might make the point that Israel is actually practicing restraint because the Israeli public wants them to be harsher.

This is credulously buying in to the notion that governments represent their people and don't practice PR, propaganda, and other methods of manufacturing consent such as filling texts books with lies about how Israeli settlements are good and protect them from another holocaust. It also demonstrates incredible hubris that reminds me of Gul Dukat from Star Trek DS9 who had a monologue about how, actually, Bajorans should have been grateful for him as the leader of the occupation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HozGJeunqRk

It's a cold blooded and ignorant thing to say. It is abuser talk. Do they seriously want credit that they aren't even more murderous? That they aren't even worse. They clearly do not care one bit about the international community's backlash as their propaganda has smeared the UN as committed to antisemitism. It's like a wife beater demanding credit for going a week without hitting their partner.

Stinky Wizzleteats
Nov 26, 2015

You must pay the price for this post.
Just as revolution cannot occur by voting, neither may apocalypse be averted by it

Sancho Banana
Aug 4, 2023

Not to be confused with meat.

Zoeb posted:

the white christian fascist chuds terrify me.

I'm sorry but I can't take the word "chud" seriously in this context. The biggest mistake the left made with that word was to use it to refer to big bad bigots rather than as an infantilizing insult. It sounds like a baby's nickname. "Who's a little chuddy?" It's only rarely deployed like that.

Sancho Banana has issued a correction as of 10:23 on Oct 21, 2023

Zodium
Jun 19, 2004

i am expanding the scope of burgerposting to include trump chat. all american presidents are hitler.

Cuttlefush
Jan 15, 2014

gotta have my purp
israel = chud state

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Al-Saqr
Nov 11, 2007

One Day I Will Return To Your Side.
https://twitter.com/ajarabic/status/1715643676607594528?s=46&t=kY7HKwmb1RBg9U186lxtbg

israel asks its citizens living in turkey, bahrain, UAE, and those who entered malaysia using their second passport to evacuate and run away immediately

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