|
kingturnip posted:Oponn discussion Wasn't one of the subplots of Ammanas and Cotillion was them reconnecting with their humanity and teaching the other gods they needed to as well?
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2023 23:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 21:17 |
|
|
Cotillion for sure, Ammanas kind of stayed the same.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2023 00:42
|
|
|
You could argue he wasn't much in touch with his human side even as a human, though. e: VVV Oh no it isn't. Wait for Assail. Honestly that's a book I'd even recommend avoiding since while it does explain a bunch of stuff you might be wondering about, all the revelations are incredibly underwhelming and the continent is better left as a mystery. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Oct 23, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2023 13:31
|
|
|
I'm going through the Malazan empire books on audio and I frankly have absolutely no idea what is going in return of the crimson guard except it's boring. I think this is the low point but man it's low
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2023 22:36
|
|
|
Yeah, it's not great. I probably It's also a bit better on a re-read/listen, if only because it makes a bit more sense.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2023 23:04
|
|
|
Submarine Sandpaper posted:I'm going through the Malazan empire books on audio and I frankly have absolutely no idea what is going in return of the crimson guard except it's boring. Yeah Crimson Guard is bad and a big reason why i actively advise against reading Esslemont's stuff. He completely fails to live up to the hype that Erikson presents wrt stuff like the Night of Knives and the Crimson Guard
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2023 23:08
|
|
|
That is the one where things of consequence happen, iirc, unlike most of the rest of it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2023 23:12
|
|
|
Yeah I would recommend that as an 11th book if you were reading them all, just because of what happens. If you skip it I think the event in question is just kind of mentioned offhandedly by Quick Ben during a totally different conversation and then dropped entirely, which was crazy to me
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 01:08
|
|
|
McSpankWich posted:I think the event in question is just kind of mentioned offhandedly by Quick Ben during a totally different conversation and then dropped entirely, which was crazy to me Same
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 02:13
|
|
|
I keep expecting to see that I'm accidentally on the third book because of how short night of knives was. The whole "this was a single night" in the forward threw me, sure seemed like flashback and current. I'm at chapter 17 of 27. I've been dreading looking at how much is left, but at least I might be able to figure out what's gonna happen before things might happen. Probably not. Skinner is bad, traveler walks in a straight line, and there are others I guess. Although perhaps anything Malazan I should read before listening.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2023 02:31
|
|
|
I stopped reading the Esslemont books at some point, but the impression I always got was that they were sort of cohesive except that there was always one plot thread in each one that didn't have much to do with the rest of the book and just sort of happened. Ivanr in Stonewielder and Ghelel in Crimson Guard are two examples I can remember. I guess maybe they might show up in later books or have some background effect on the story or at least give context to the world, but at the time I just felt like they were incredibly tangential.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2023 04:44
|
|
|
The only Esselmont books I've read are the Kellanved/Dancer prequels and I really liked them. Do people not consider them good?
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2023 04:49
|
|
|
I'd say that the first and fourth 'Path to Ascension' books are the best that he's written, particularly the first. I did enjoy an Amazon review for the first which started with "Finally, Esselmont's written an actually good book". The main problem is that so much of what he's writing is linked to Erikson's books that it's hard not to - at the very least - have some expectations going in. You go into Night of Knives knowing that events of the night Laseen took power were awesome and cool and You go into Orb Sceptre Throne knowing that the Seguleh are awesome and cool and there's this apocalyptic event that threatens Darujhistan and You go into Assail with a few tantalising hints of how awesome and cool and terrifying the place is and Worst of all, you go into Return of the Crimson Guard thinking that Iron Bars and his mates were awesome and cool, and then you end up reading about the most miserably boring group of the lot for literally several books. I do think if you picked them up knowing nothing about Erikson's books, you'd probably have an objectively more enjoyable time with them (taking them on their own merit). Assuming you got more than 20% of the way through RotCG.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2023 07:44
|
|
|
TBH I liked RotCG because I was dreading reading another one of his books after Night of Knives, but he improved so much from one to the next that I was pleasantly surprised.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2023 12:59
|
|
|
D-Pad posted:The only Esselmont books I've read are the Kellanved/Dancer prequels and I really liked them. Do people not consider them good? They are one of the rare examples of a work that actively makes the earlier books worse. The Malazan world was full of cool hints and glimpses at a bigger world and an exciting history, then these prequels came along and slapped a coat of young adult paint over the lot of it. All those important people from the history of the entire Malazan empire, turns out they were all there together at the start, every single one of them, right down to the people who were only squaddies decades later. Whiskeyjack got his name because he was called Jack, and then he was drinking whiskey. The highlight of a naming session that destroyed any sense of wonder from the originals. All those cool things happening in the main series, like the K'Chain Kmalle and Jaghut returning? Turns out that actually the Malazans have met them loads of times before. The prequels are just Star Wars expanded universe novels, they reduce everything down to the most basic and childish parts.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2023 14:10
|
|
|
bucketybuck posted:Whiskeyjack got his name because he was called Jack, and then he was drinking whiskey. The highlight of a naming session that destroyed any sense of wonder from the originals.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2023 22:29
|
|
|
bucketybuck posted:Whiskeyjack got his name because he was called Jack, and then he was drinking whiskey. The highlight of a naming session that destroyed any sense of wonder from the originals. What? No. His birth name was Iskar Jarak. But you are correct that Braven Tooth was pretty simple with nicknames (side-eyeing Fiddler here).
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 21:24
|
|
|
Lucid Nonsense posted:What? No. His birth name was Iskar Jarak. But you are correct that Braven Tooth was pretty simple with nicknames (side-eyeing Fiddler here).
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 21:31
|
|
|
I don't remember who it was, but Whiskeyjack was named for drinking whiskey in the second (?) Path to acendency book. Fiddler was named by Whiskeyjack during their trip into rarakku. Fiddler thinks about it in House of chains.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 21:32
|
|
|
Yeah, looks like I was talking smack based on a thought I had in my second read through. It's the Anibar who called him Iskar.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 21:41
|
|
|
Lucid Nonsense posted:Yeah, looks like I was talking smack based on a thought I had in my second read through. It's the Anibar who called him Iskar. I think in MbotF it's almost perfectly ambiguous whether Iskar Jarak is a corruption of Whiskeyjack, or if Whiskeyjack is a very lazy pun given by Braven Tooth, and I'm so salty that Esslemont ruined the joke.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2023 15:55
|
|
|
I think "jarak" might also be the Seven Cities word for a whiskeyjack bird, or some similar bird.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2023 16:29
|
|
|
Lucid Nonsense posted:What? No. His birth name was Iskar Jarak. But you are correct that Braven Tooth was pretty simple with nicknames (side-eyeing Fiddler here). Nicely demonstrating my original point that the prequels actively ruin the originals.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2023 18:37
|
|
|
Started reading Memories of Ice this week. Already having a blast. It's such a good feeling to start a book that begins with two prologues (and 3 epigrams) and instead of thinking "oh christ, really?" I'm actually 100% confident that it's all going to be worth it and not waste my time.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2023 06:53
|
|
|
Starting Memories of Ice for a reread and can’t wait for certain stuff to happen! It’s a good one.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2023 17:12
|
|
|
Memories is definitely the book in the series that took me from "ok, this series is pretty good so far" to "holy poo poo Erikson is the greatest fantasy author alive." Incredibly well paced with phenomenal unforgettable battles, connected by tons of little character moments and setting tidbits that make it very rewarding to revisit.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2023 17:49
|
|
|
Same. Memories is great, possibly my favorite. Midnight Tides is the other possibility for me
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2023 01:37
|
|
|
I meant to read Midnight Tides before Deadhouse Gates this time but I forgot. It totally makes sense that Memories of Ice was written first before it was lost.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2023 02:02
|
|
|
I'm a Midnight Tides/Reaper's Gale guy myself, give me that sweet sweet Letheras.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2023 05:09
|
|
|
About halfway through Deadhouse Gates and it finally got good! I was enjoying it the whole time, except for the dreadful Felisin parts, but was very much a bunch of people (different groups of people!) wandering around a desert having lovely things happen to them. Now stuff has really started happening. There were some surprises, like I expected Kalam taking to book to Sha'ik to be a significant part of his story but nope he gets it and the next time we see him he's delivering it. Pretty funny. Still dunno what the deal with the Red Blades is but apparently they all died anyway. The ghost ship of beheaded corpses is sick, love a good spook and it's a good way to further characterize people who have already had a really lovely time. Climax of the battle at the river, where we finally get to see Coltaine in action and the Malazan sappers doing their thing, is the first part of the book that's been a real page turner for me. Having it from Duiker's perspective was a great choice. As always Mappo and Icarium remain fun to follow and I'm glad they ran into Fiddler and co, who were doing nothing interesting before that. Feel like I've got a grasp on how Erikson writes now and what to expect from the structure of further books. Love the one-off drops of info that seem rather important like Shadowthrone and Cotillion are Kellenvad and Dancer - am guessing that has some pretty significant implications for learning more about the past and future of the story.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2023 15:31
|
|
|
Fobby posted:I think "jarak" might also be the Seven Cities word for a whiskeyjack bird, or some similar bird. It's also the name of the Canada Jay, and SE is canadian. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_jay And it's connected to the mythological figure Wisakedjak, also called Whiskeyjack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisakedjak Seeing as he's an anthropologist, I'm sure it's not accidental.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2023 23:37
|
|
|
my bony fealty posted:About halfway through Deadhouse Gates and it finally got good! I was enjoying it the whole time, except for the dreadful Felisin parts, but was very much a bunch of people (different groups of people!) wandering around a desert having lovely things happen to them. Now stuff has really started happening. There were some surprises, like I expected Kalam taking to book to Sha'ik to be a significant part of his story but nope he gets it and the next time we see him he's delivering it. Pretty funny. Still dunno what the deal with the Red Blades is but apparently they all died anyway. That book is absolutely crammed full of amazing poo poo happening. I am happy you are getting to enjoy it for the first time, I remember how blown away I was by the end.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2023 05:50
|
|
|
Jaxyon posted:It's also the name of the Canada Jay, and SE is canadian. Thats pretty interesting actually. I had assumed after I read the main books that his name being translated loosely to whiskey jack was one of those western type nicknames for a foreign name thats hard to say. Like with some Vietnamese names where the traditional pronunciation might have that cluck sound that westerners can struggle with so it becomes like "win" for "ngyuen".
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2023 04:39
|
|
|
Finished 5 so I'm half-way through the main series. My ranking is 3>5>2=4>1. Debating whether to read the Esselemont stuff or save it for later. Skipping Night of The Knives for sure since nobody particularly likes that one and the summaries make it sound boring.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2023 12:50
|
|
|
Night of Knives is bad. Return of the Crimson Guard has a consequential plot point when read in sequence (between RG and TtH). Also, in terms of writing it's much better than Night of Knives, but still not equal to the main books. I didn't hate reading it and even read the next few. But nothing important happens in any of them so you don't need to read them
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2023 13:00
|
|
|
I personally recommend skipping the Esslemont books as they're not written nearly as well and don't really add that much to the greater plot.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2023 21:02
|
|
|
I do think the Esselmont books are better on a second read. It's just that they're mostly* not very good on a first read. * - the Path to Ascension books are an enjoyable read
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2023 21:59
|
|
|
Power through the 10 then go back and read em if you are desperate for the other (less interesting) pieces of the puzzle.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2023 04:22
|
|
|
You miss little not reading them til done with MBotF, and whether or not you think they're good, they're different. So if you're looking for more SE writing, read his other stuff. If you're just looking for more Malazan, then read the ICE stuff.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2023 04:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 21:17 |
|
|
Is there anything interesting/fun in them? I mostly read the Malazan series for the outre and fun stuff and I've largely checked out on the lore so puzzle pieces aren't attractive. I'll just read a wiki fez_machine fucked around with this message at 08:25 on Nov 12, 2023 |
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2023 08:22
|
|