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Barry Foster posted:Hell yeah, that's my favourite bit too, Kelley kills it throughout the movie really. Bones is my favourite TOS character, love the 'crochety doctor with a heart of gold and absolute moral stances' archetype. I'd say Gunsmoke's Doc Adams fits that description. His interplay with Festus has a similar spirit to that of Bones and Spock as well.
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Oct 23, 2023 08:43
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Barry Foster posted:Hell yeah, that's my favourite bit too, Kelley kills it throughout the movie really. Bones is my favourite TOS character, love the 'crochety doctor with a heart of gold and absolute moral stances' archetype. Kelley's performance during the 'terminally ill father' scene is one of the more underrated performances in Star Trek canon. It was personal for him because iirc, Kelley had (or thought he had) a terminal illness at the time V was being filmed.
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Oct 23, 2023 14:14
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It blows my mind that DeForest Kelley was only 46 at the start of Star Trek and not yet 60 during TMP. He has always seemed ancient.
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Oct 23, 2023 14:25
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bull3964 posted:It blows my mind that DeForest Kelley was only 46 at the start of Star Trek and not yet 60 during TMP. He has always seemed ancient. Skincare did not exist in the 60s, but cigarettes and alcohol sure did
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Oct 23, 2023 14:32
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bull3964 posted:It blows my mind that DeForest Kelley was only 46 at the start of Star Trek and not yet 60 during TMP. He has always seemed ancient. No Dignity posted:Skincare did not exist in the 60s, but cigarettes and alcohol sure did Ethan Peck was 36 when the first season of SNW aired; Leonard Nimoy was 35 when the first season of TOS aired. William Shatner was also 35 in TOS season 1; Kirk first appears in SNW two weeks before Paul Wesley's 40th birthday. It really can't be overstated how "sunscreen and moisturizer" has improved actors' appearances when compared to the days of "two martinis and a pack of Lucky Strikes for lunch."
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Oct 23, 2023 14:44
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Holy poo poo I never realised Beverley's candle ghost was Shakar lol
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Oct 23, 2023 14:56
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Yeah, to be clear I know that's the reason, but it always hits hard when I realize the people in roles I watched growing up are younger than I am now and I'm like "I don't think I look THAT old, do I?" I have to sit back and tell myself "You didn't smoke, you didn't drink daily, you didn't go to war, you never worked in a factory."
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Oct 23, 2023 14:58
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I just watched the final episode of TOS. That sure was an episode. Good riddance to season 3.
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Oct 23, 2023 16:39
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Here’s an obscure Deforest Kelly role I remember from when I was a kid, that time he guest starred in an episode of The Littlest Hobo. It’s the full episode, he appears five minutes in. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LeuJxGZjDwM&pp=ygUdZGVmb3Jlc3Qga2VsbGV5IGxpdHRsZXN0IGhvYm8%3D A stray dog helps a runaway child and a runaway philosophy professor.
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Oct 23, 2023 17:09
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Atlas Hugged posted:I just watched the final episode of TOS. That sure was an episode. My only theory to explain that last episode is that they didn't want another letter-writing campaign.
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Oct 23, 2023 17:12
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Star Trek 5 and Generations are very much of a piece, lots of really solid performances and good vibes and cool-looking shots (except the effects shots in 5 lol), but in service of a script that just has no idea where to go.
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Oct 23, 2023 17:27
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Generations has too much poo poo going on. There are like 3 storylines in one film which would have been better served on a show.
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Oct 23, 2023 17:29
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Atlas Hugged posted:I just watched the final episode of TOS. That sure was an episode. You doing the movies? The bounce from Turnabout Intruder to TMP is JARRING. Like, "Oh poo poo, we're taking this completely seriously now and we've got a budget." I'd say there's not a hint of the old camp in it, but I guess Probe Ilia going about in her 70s disco space girl dress bleating "KIRK UNIT!" fits the bill.
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Oct 23, 2023 17:42
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Bones is my favorite character from TOS. There's several episodes where he goes off against Kirk and later apologizes, and I'm like "nah man, you were totally right"
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Oct 23, 2023 17:43
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Re: From Turnabout Intruder to TMP. That and Bones' disco outfit. But mostly TMP is a very sterile and serious movie, far more than any of the other TOS movies; even Undiscovered Country,. I personally think that one of the movie's problems is that it went too far into the direction of serious.
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Oct 23, 2023 17:44
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I've never cared for TMP. The visual style isn't my taste and is jarring compared to the rest of the movies. It also takes freaking forever for the movie to start, like if 2001 spent an hour waiting for the Discovery One to depart before you get to the HAL parts.
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Oct 23, 2023 17:47
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Sash! posted:I've never cared for TMP. And yes the whole sterile and reserved performances just don’t jive with TOS at all to me.
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Oct 23, 2023 17:56
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Also going from TOS to a movie where you could watch with the colour off and barely notice is a hell of a visual tone shift too.
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Oct 23, 2023 18:02
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Why does V'ger need a starship
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Oct 23, 2023 18:33
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:Re: From Turnabout Intruder to TMP. It went to serious because it was modeled after Close Encounters of the Third Kind, Alien, and the first Star Wars movie plus 2001: Space Odyssey, and retooled from the pilot script for the Phase 2 series. Also, it was the only one where Roddenberry had the driver's seat and the overall plot was already written by him before any of the first three were released. The reason why it didn't fail was that it ran mostly on "hey Star Trek is back!" fumes but the Great Quaalude of the Galaxy got the axe so that the next ones wouldn't be such messes.
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Oct 23, 2023 18:57
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It was also absurdly over budget which is why they cut the budget before WoK
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Oct 23, 2023 18:59
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Well, I love it. It's a whole Trek era unto itself, with its comfy looking pyjama uniforms and general tone. Granted, huge sucker for big mysterious clouds in space. It's basically JERRY GOLDSMITH: THE MOTION PICTURE and that does it for me. Could have done with another 7 minuites of the Enterprise fly by, it's not enough.
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Oct 23, 2023 18:59
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TMP still had one of the best performances of Nimoy. TMP gives Spock complexity in a way that TOS just didn't. His human side was always just a punchline in TOS, here you can actually see the inner turmoil it causes. Without TMP, a lot of ST:IV would lose its emotional core as you see Spock finally embrace his human half in his "rebirth." FlamingLiberal posted:It was also absurdly over budget which is why they cut the budget before WoK Wasn't that a lot of Hollywood accounting to wrap up the Phase II development costs into the movie though?
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Oct 23, 2023 20:12
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TMP's biggest problem by far is those endless scenes where they show abstract shapes on the viewscreen intercut with reaction shots of the actors watching the screen. It's a really cool vibe, but after a certain point you kind of lose the sense of scale and it becomes meaningless.
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Oct 23, 2023 20:14
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I don't know, scale is one thing that TMP does really well. The juxtaposition of the Enterprise on the exterior of V'Ger is one of the few times in the entire franchise that scale is conveyed in a jaw dropping way. That's something I think people miss from the slow start with the flyby of the Enterprise. They take a lot of time establishing how large the ship is compared to people. Showing the scale internally and externally. Then when we jump to V'Ger, the Enterprise is a speck of dust. It's nothing in comparison. That said, of course stuff is all over the place. Exact figures aren't available, but V'Ger is said to be about 80km long. What's shown on screen seems significantly bigger than that. The original dialog had the cloud at 82 AU which would be slightly larger than our whole solar system out to Pluto. It was revised down to 2AU which is still huge, but a bit more proportional.
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Oct 23, 2023 20:30
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bull3964 posted:TMP still had one of the best performances of Nimoy. Hot take that I may have offered before: Shatner's interpretation of Kirk in the movie is actually not bad at all. Kirk was going through a midlife crisis and was supposed to be a dick in the movie. The problem isn't with Shatner's acting but the fact that he not only receives no punishment for being an rear end (aside from a stern talking-to by Bones) but is rewarded with command of the Enterprise. All of that setup to establish Decker and Ilia only for both of them to not survive to the end of the movie. Sometimes there can be good dramatic effect when that happens, but most everything in TMP is so flat (again, aside from Nimoy's performance) that it doesn't really amount to much.
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Oct 23, 2023 20:37
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I think Decker and Ilia were erased from existence because the executives knew by the end that what will sell is a movie series with the TOS characters, since they already canned the Phase 2 development for movies. And at that time as a general rule TV franchises did not jump to movies, and TV stars did not do movies, or vice versa. Columbo being a series of TV movies was pushing the limit, hard. And Clint Eastwood had to go to Europe to do the Dollars trilogy to graduate from TV to movie business. Even in the beginning with TNG this was at times a production problem, as TOS movies were the actual business, and TNG was "just TV show". So TNG were at the times by Paramount considered the "other Star Trek", and they got from movie props what was left over, whereas movies got to use whatever they wanted from the TV show. Der Kyhe fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Oct 23, 2023 |
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Oct 23, 2023 20:42
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Yeah. We did see a more improved Decker and Ilia 2.0 with Riker and Troi, though; especially very early on in TNG's run. It's an almost exact 1:1 aside from Riker having a different personality than Decker. Riker would have never accepted Kirk's usurpation, no matter how storied his career.
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Oct 23, 2023 20:45
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I love how much love TMP (except for those loving costumes). I grew up with just thinking it was “one of the bad ones,” not realizing it had basically set the visual tone for the rest of the franchise for quite a while. Not to mention all of the recycled sets and such for well over 20+ years later. That ending flyby of the Enterprise is so fukken good, and I really hate how they made the ship way more SWOOOOOSHY KICKIN RAD GUYZ for newer poo poo like Strange New Worlds.
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Oct 23, 2023 20:53
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Kirk really escapes punishment all the time and I can't think of really any time that Starfleet has come down hard on him. His biggest punishment from hubris comes from getting Spock and a crew full of cadets killed, but that's only personal anguish. Starfleet did nothing to punish him. jeeves posted:I love how much love TMP (except for those loving costumes). I grew up with just thinking it was “one of the bad ones,” not realizing it had basically set the visual tone for the rest of the franchise for quite a while. Not to mention all of the recycled sets and such for well over 20+ years later. Fun fact, those "loving costumes" were dyed, given some embellishments, and then served as the cadet and enlisted class jumpsuits for the rest of the movies. bull3964 fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Oct 23, 2023 |
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Oct 23, 2023 20:55
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The switch to jiggly ships shooting bolts at each other was a mistake. The constitution and galaxy et al. are heavy cruisers and battleships, they should have a feel of mass and inertia, and they should fire those huge gently caress you death rays and arrays of torpedoes/missiles, not some "piu piu piu" anti air guns and then turn on a dime and run away. I could live in a world where they have close defense weapons that do that piupiupiu stuff but the main guns should have certain gravitas to them. Der Kyhe fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Oct 23, 2023 |
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Oct 23, 2023 20:57
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bull3964 posted:Fun fact, those "loving costumes" were dyed, given some embellishments, and then served as the cadet and enlisted class jumpsuits for the rest of the movies. The Admiral costume was loving great in TMP. I always start the movie going "oh the costumes are not that bad..." realizing it's just the beginning that has him in that one. I honestly like it better than the later "Maroon Monster" uniforms of the rest of the movies. Apparently was supposed to be everyone's uniform... but alas: Memory Alpha posted:This style was identified as an "admiral's uniform" in Star Trek Encyclopedia (1st ed., p. 359). In Robert Fletcher's production notes, it was identified as the "class A uniform," originally intended to be worn by all cast members. (Star Trek: Costumes, p. 43) Director Robert Wise wanted a more monochromatic look, resulting in several additional styles used on screen.
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Oct 23, 2023 21:02
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Agreed: the Admiral's uniform was cool but the rest of those pajama uniforms screamed disco-era '70s. It dates the movie more than almost anything in the others save the '80s synthpop while the crew is walking about 1986 San Francisco.
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Oct 23, 2023 21:04
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:Agreed: the Admiral's uniform was cool but the rest of those pajama uniforms screamed disco-era '70s. It dates the movie more than almost anything in the others save the '80s synthpop while the crew is walking about 1986 San Francisco. I could see Bones wearing that uniform into TNG just because it was an option in the inventory. Like real life military officers and cops who usually are allowed to wear whatever what was approved gear during their career, unless its mission critical safety stuff or was specifically banned. Der Kyhe fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Oct 23, 2023 |
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Oct 23, 2023 21:06
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One of the things I loved about tWOK was how when those ships shot each other they were positively wrecking house. Even though it's all bullshit and the rules are all made up, the fact that a shot was doing visible damage that carried over from scene to scene helped sell the reality of the situation. Pirouetting across the screen and putting on a light show had all the impact from Galaxy Quest where Tim the toolman said "fire the green lasers, fire the blue lasers" in the most disinterested tone he could manage.
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Oct 23, 2023 21:07
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bull3964 posted:I don't know, scale is one thing that TMP does really well. Initially yes. But by the end of the sequence I've just checked out, I have no idea what I'm looking at anymore. Overall I do like the movie a lot, but the need for another edit (which they ran out of time for) was obvious.
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Oct 23, 2023 21:09
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Fornax Disaster posted:Here’s an obscure Deforest Kelly role I remember from when I was a kid, that time he guest starred in an episode of The Littlest Hobo. It’s the full episode, he appears five minutes in. Here's a really obscure role: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2E9I7VqNrH4
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Oct 23, 2023 22:15
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Der Kyhe posted:The switch to jiggly ships shooting bolts at each other was a mistake. The constitution and galaxy et al. are heavy cruisers and battleships, they should have a feel of mass and inertia, and they should fire those huge gently caress you death rays and arrays of torpedoes/missiles, not some "piu piu piu" anti air guns and then turn on a dime and run away. Was Defiant the first Trek ship to really indulge in the swoopy dynamic WWII Fighter Plane visual vocabulary? Because right choice in that specific case to sell what a weirdo it is, imo, but after that having your immense multi-deck ships scoot around like fighters is a very hard toy to put back in the box Aside from that though I always did love the Enterprise-D's linear phaser arrays. Gets you that visual power buildup in a unique way.
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Oct 23, 2023 23:28
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My wife and kid are out of town so yes I was planning on watching TMP tonight. I've seen it before, but this will be the first time in a long time and the first time with all of TOS under my belt.
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Oct 24, 2023 00:12
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Insurrection: I got about a third of the way through this and realised I was quite enjoying it. It was very light and fun, even a little cartoony at times, Data's weird flotation device gag in particular. There was quite a powerful scene with Geordi where he gets his sight back and watches a sunrise. And then it cuts to a fleet of really bad looking CG ships and I felt that was the switch that flipped. The second act is a drag, lots of hot milf romance, running through caves and shooting at crappy little drones. The third act, ACTION SCHLOCK A-GO-GO. Anthony Zerbe gets his head stretched yet again. Picard swings around in a vest, through a particularly ugly set. I was always convinced that set was due to some unfinished effects work, that they'd run out of money and had to just leave the blue screens in the background, but no. The whole Son'a ship vibe is huge blue accents, it's basically just keeping in with that design and it's very bad. Speaking of ship vibes, I didn't mention this during First Contact, but the E's bridge is the worst goddamn thing, no depth whatsoever, just cramped and miserable looking. The stupid joystick popping up is possibly the stupidest thing I've ever seen in one of these films. Riker's beard is RIPPED FROM US. But Tracy* is there for a small moment, STILL, SOMEHOW. Goldsmith's score this time around is particularly gorgeous, with some lovely delicate pieces. Everybody's giving it their best and they look like they're having fun, it just doesn't translate to me, the audience. I'd say it's a step up from Generations, mind you. Not as muddled, not as overstuffed. Just... Eeeh. Eeeh. What a let down after that first act. (*I did get curious and finally bother to look her up, it's actually Tracee Lee Cocco and as well as being that one background character, she had loads of parts as odd background aliens throughout the series. I wonder how many actors there are like that? I wonder how many times the guy who plays Morn walked across the background of a scene as just some Starfleet guy or something. I feel like that'd be a thing.)
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Oct 24, 2023 00:27
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