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Anne Frank Funk posted:Could be troubling enough if people who voted him in are actually cool with these particular issues. It doesn't matter though? It's not relevant what issues individual citizens have on their personal wishlist; it matters whether they vote for representatives willing to pass those laws. Nobody's views align 100% with their party of choice, of course, but as long as the abortion issue is not enough of a priority for people to vote in pro-choice candidates, we won't have pro-choice laws. Sadly opposition voter concerns of the past 8 years have been overwhelmingly strategic rather than substantial, all about "how can my vote most effectively topple PiS". Thus Poland's current weird phenomenon where a well-documented, major rise in center-left views in society has led to a rise in votes for center-right parties. Hopefully things will reshuffle a little when we once again see diverse parties actually negotiating and voting on substantial matters (remember when that was a thing?). TD's big gains were IMO a mix of tactical voting and the tried and true method of "act nice, dodge policy commitments, and let people project their own views onto you"... but they happened and for now they sadly have the mandate to push their platform.
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Oct 17, 2023 12:41
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Guildencrantz posted:Sadly opposition voter concerns of the past 8 years have been overwhelmingly strategic rather than substantial, all about "how can my vote most effectively topple PiS". The left isn't really an option for your regular voters (SLD was turbolibs and the sort of pensioners that ended up falling into PiS's arms, Razem is spooky pope-hating plankton screeching about the pronouns and wanting to take our money to give away to lazy bumbs) and given that Left is Lava assumption, your options are either PO or equally spineless flavor of the month "I swear it'll be different this time" PO clone: your Palikots, Petrus, Biedrońs and Hołownias. Right now we were at the tail end of Hołownia's five minutes of fame, but there's no-one mainstream pushing for a more center-left position steadfastly. Biedroń sort of was in the best position to do that - even if it would largely end at throwing a bone to gay rights because that was his centrist feelgood gimmick - but even he has immediately crumbled in the run-up to last elections. Alas, other than waiting for all of the solidaritypilled boomers to finally die out, the only way out is for the next flavor of the month centrist to try pulling a Mentzen and really bank on mobilizing discouraged non-voters. To be clear, I agree as to Third Way voters honestly getting what they voted for, but I also believe that a big chunk of them doesn't really think about fine details beyond "what's the current not-PO?". PS. If you really need some hopium, consider that perhaps Kosiniak-Kamysz is running his mouth before anything is signed to make a little show and cover his rear end before agreeing to more moderate proposals (civil unions instead of marriage, reverting previous abortion laws as they are). Civil unions are really what Tusk promised (once again, lol) so by bitching about gay marriage that wasn't ever really on the table they could have their cake and eat it too, doing the cool progressive thing while also steadfastly defending against the spooky gay menace.
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Oct 17, 2023 13:26
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Over 81% turn out in cities over 250,000 people. Warsaw had an almost 85% turnout.
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Oct 17, 2023 13:31
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Yeah, gay marriage is definitely out of the question and I don't think anyone was seriously expecting otherwise. I'm also not holding my breath for civil partnerships but I don't think it's outright impossible. And yeah, it *is* silly to make it a distinct category (and it's silly that it matters so much for some people that it be a distinct category), but on the other hand, most other countries had to pass through this transitory stage, so it's not hugely surprising for Poland to follow a similar trajectory. And from my selfish point of view, having my relationship legally recognized in *some* way sooner rather than later is still preferable to holding out until it can be officially called marriage (and I think marriage equality is more or less inevitable once civil partnerships become a thing).
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Oct 17, 2023 14:35
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Lichtenstein posted:Alas, other than waiting for all of the solidaritypilled boomers to finally die out, the only way out is for the next flavor of the month centrist to try pulling a Mentzen and really bank on mobilizing discouraged non-voters. We've just had 73% turnout in parliamentary elections. I don't think there's any more discouraged non-voters to mobilise at this point, not in any significant numbers, anyway. People who did not vote this year are people who have no capacity to vote for whatever reason, no interest in politics, or no willingness to compromise on radical positions.
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Oct 17, 2023 14:44
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Tevery Best posted:We've just had 73% turnout in parliamentary elections. I don't think there's any more discouraged non-voters to mobilise at this point, not in any significant numbers, anyway. People who did not vote this year are people who have no capacity to vote for whatever reason, no interest in politics, or no willingness to compromise on radical positions. But that turnout is the discouraged voters. It's those very people who sat back and didn't vote through Schetyna's bullshit. PiS did a great job antagonizing everyone, leading to 10+% election-to-election rise in turnout, but that's not going to last forever. As the numbers inevitably go down eventually (you can only go so far on PiS panic, Tusk-less PO has proven time and time again) here's hoping that the next PO clone will figure out those same people could very well return instead of banking on the LaBiLnY eLeKtOrAt bullshit time and time again.
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Oct 17, 2023 15:18
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armpit_enjoyer posted:But did the doggo get adopted I've checked, he used photos of four different dogs, all of them got adopted.
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Oct 17, 2023 17:28
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Tbf I'm in a deep liberal city and my social circles are mostly millennial intelligentsia types, which is, demographically, the core electorate for the Left. My experience has been been watching folks around me continuously slide left for the past decade, now complaining a lot how KO is too conservative and boomer-y and needs to get with the times on abortion, secularism, and LGBT rights, ditch the free-market fundamentalism and the Giertych types, and so on... and then most of them just keep voting KO out of a mix of habit and anti-PiS "tactical" voting. This is probably not reflective of the general population outside my bubble. Still, maybe you're right and there is just some kind of unspoken deep taboo about voting for something identifiable with the bad L word, even among people who don't subscribe to the usual Polish phobias.
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Oct 17, 2023 20:12
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 Concerning.
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Oct 24, 2023 09:16
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Don't threaten us with good time!
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Oct 24, 2023 09:45
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Yes please.
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Oct 24, 2023 09:53
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German chancellor? How many Panzer divisions does he have?  https://www.euronews.com/2023/09/06/poland-said-its-army-will-soon-be-the-strongest-in-europe-but-is-that-possible quote:If Deputy Prime Minister Jarosław Kaczyński gets his way, military spending in Poland could be increased to 5% of the country’s GDP in the next decade, as he has suggested. so basically the future looks very 
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Oct 24, 2023 19:02
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I for one, welcome our new Polish overlords. EU was dumb anyways.
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Oct 24, 2023 19:29
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I like that the map is basically Settling_Old_Grudges.jpg
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Oct 24, 2023 19:41
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Mr. Apollo posted:I like that the map is basically Settling_Old_Grudges.jpg It's strangely not including Sweden as part of Poland but has Finland, when the claim to Finland comes from the period when Sigismund, the son of Swedish King John III and his Polish wife, had been elected the king of the commonwealth and then his uncle Charles said that nah we're keeping the Swedish crown in Swedish protestant hands and a big war kicked off during which the leading nobleman in Finland Klaus Fleming sided with Sigismund and the rebelling peasants sided with Charles and Fleming slaughtered the peasants but then Charles defeated Fleming. But for a moment Sigismund took Stockholm and this means that Sweden (and all lands that ever were part of Sweden, like Norway and some parts of America) are natural parts of PLC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_against_Sigismund
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Oct 24, 2023 19:57
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when are they gonna install a new false dmitry the tsar pushka has been idle for too long
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Oct 24, 2023 20:14
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IF you lay claim to Finland, it's strange that you would be willing to let Russia retain the parts of Finland it took.
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Oct 24, 2023 22:51
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All those past grievances getting resolved, and yet no PLC Konstantynopol/Constantinople? Did the Battle of Vienna mean nothing???
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Oct 24, 2023 23:24
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burnishedfume posted:All those past grievances getting resolved, and yet no PLC Konstantynopol/Constantinople? Did the Battle of Vienna mean nothing???
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Oct 24, 2023 23:39
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Had a doctor (Australian in the states) today that wanted to make political small talk ask about Poland’s problem with Russia when we’ve historically had plenty of adversaries, like the mongols, yet don’t hold a grudge against them. Also brought up the Maidan “coup”, and German tankers in Ukraine that no one’s talking about. I think it was Epoch Times assisted brain rot.
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Oct 24, 2023 23:47
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Torrannor posted:IF you lay claim to Finland, it's strange that you would be willing to let Russia retain the parts of Finland it took. But only north of Ladoga, for reasons.
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Oct 25, 2023 16:06
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Nenonen posted:But for a moment Sigismund took Stockholm and this means that Sweden (and all lands that ever were part of Sweden, like Norway and some parts of America) are natural parts of PLC.
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Oct 25, 2023 17:29
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Oracle posted:You will take Minnesota over our dead, lutefisk-ridden bodies! I think the offer was to move all Finns who could escape to Alaska should USSR manage to fully occupy and annex the country. Offering Minnesota instead is just unnecessary cruelty.
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Oct 25, 2023 18:14
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New Sweden was around Delaware actually. There was also a Caribbean colony in St. Barhelemy that Swedes wanted because you weren't one of the cool kids in Europe if you didn't have some slaves in hellish conditions. (     )Btw. Alaska should also be Polish because the chief of Russian American Company in Alaska was Finnish until it was sold. From sea to shining sea...
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Oct 25, 2023 18:29
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Nenonen posted:Btw. Alaska should also be Polish because the chief of Russian American Company in Alaska was Finnish until it was sold. From sea to shining sea...
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Oct 25, 2023 19:20
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https://x.com/simonmontefiore/status/1717209843637866575?s=20 I could make the effort to get past they paywall, but I feel like I don't need to.
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Oct 26, 2023 01:14
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This entire case was an absolute shitshow, bunch of priests basically raped a sexworker (who never agreed to group sex), and when said sexworker passed out, one of priests called ambulance, but rest of them did not allowed medics inside rectory. Medics had to call the police. And said bishop made an official nonapology in which he literally stated "I'm sorry if anyone is offended".
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Oct 26, 2023 01:42
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"Warto przeczytać, jaka jest definicja orgii" O M G
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Oct 26, 2023 01:51
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Maybe they think it’s like a Roman orgy from Asterix, where everyone is having way too much fondue?
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Oct 26, 2023 01:58
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Maybe they were doing sexorcism on a possessed worker?
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Oct 26, 2023 13:48
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So, for those not in the know: PKN Orlen is Poland's state-owned petrochemical company that PiS has made the personal fief of their loyal lackey Daniel Obajtek. Obajtek used it to employ family members for obscene amounts of money and almost certainly to embezzle even more to who-knows-where. The government then merged Lotos, the other state-owned petrochemical corporation which owned assets in the PO bastion Pomerania, into Orlen, but the European Commission would not approve of the merger unless Lotos divested most of its retail stations and plenty of other assets. This included selling off a 30% share in the Gdańsk Petrochemical Plant, the second-largest in the country, to Aramco. But it was all worth it, you see, because now the Obajtek clan had a lot more taxpayer-funded jobs to hand out, and any negative consequences would be felt mostly in Pomerania. Following that success, the state-owned gas company PGNiG was also merged with Orlen. Naturally, Obajtek, knowing which way his bread is buttered, ordered Orlen to start mass buying local media outlets under the label Polska Press. These immediately got put to work on pulling the PiS party line with complete disregard for fact or reason. But if that wasn't enough, Obajtek also ordered all Orlen stations and wholesale centres to dramatically lower fuel prices for the electoral campaign despite rising oil prices, undercutting everyone else by insane margins. This lead to giant lines at Orlen stations and shortages of fuel, supposedly to the point where the military fuel reserve was released to Orlen stations, but we cannot know, because the company officially denied any shortages, with its workers reportedly being instructed to label pumps that ran out of fuel as broken rather than empty. And now reports are coming in that just that fuel price farce has cost Orlen 3-4 billion PLN (so ca. EUR 700-900 mln). https://businessinsider.com.pl/biznes/orlen-stracil-miliardy-na-obnizce-cen-paliw-wkrotce-wszystko-stanie-sie-jasne/1jw6e2y Boy I sure hope there's a paper trail because if that's not a campaign finance violation I don't know what is
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Oct 26, 2023 14:56
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Best part is, it didn't even work  Super curious to see what happens to Polska Presse. Local media is important, but it might have been spoiled like TVP.
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Oct 26, 2023 17:17
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Probably the new management will be kindly asked to divest the hobby projects.
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Oct 26, 2023 18:23
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First Sejm session coming up soon, and Duda has a decision to make about who the presiding Marshal will be. Options include Ryszard Terlecki, Antoni Macierewicz and Kaczynski. Whichever one wins, it’ll be a shitshow.
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Oct 30, 2023 17:31
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I was under the impression that Duda would be heavily inclined to choose Kaczynski and could do so because formally that's the legal choice: first offer the largest party the chance to form a government, regardless of the situation otherwise.
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Oct 30, 2023 18:38
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Oh the Marshal thing is a one time nomination for the first Sejm session. It has no bearing on the ongoing negotiations.
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Oct 30, 2023 18:42
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Ah, I see--I misread there. Thanks.
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Oct 30, 2023 19:08
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Xotl posted:I was under the impression that Duda would be heavily inclined to choose Kaczynski and could do so because formally that's the legal choice: first offer the largest party the chance to form a government, regardless of the situation otherwise. This is incorrect. There are no restrictions on whom the president may designate as Prime Minister, only a set of deadlines to do so. Under Article 154 of the Constitution, the president must nominate a Prime Minister within 14 days of the first session of the Sejm, and that Prime Minister must, within 14 days, name their cabinet and secure a vote of confidence from the Sejm. (I'm actually dumb and don't know if he can try again at this point - the constitution says he may do so within 14 days of the dismissal of the previous cabinet, but I'm not sure if failing to secure a vote of confidence counts as a dismissal in these terms. I think it does? Not sure.) If this fails, within 14 days, the Sejm nominates its own candidate by majority vote with a 50% quorum. If that fails as well, under Article 155 the President gets a second chance under similar deadlines as before, and if that fails as well, a new election is held. Tevery Best fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Oct 30, 2023 |
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Oct 30, 2023 21:11
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I could have phrased that better: I said "formally", but then muddled it with "legal". Essentially what I meant was that, as I understand it, precedent / tradition has had it that the largest party is given the first opportunity. I understand though that this is not enshrined in law, which is why the whole question of what exactly will wind up happening is up in the air in the first place.
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Oct 30, 2023 21:21
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Nah, I think at least one prime minister was designated (and voted in) from the not-majority party (Pawlak in 93). They went with a coalition with the leading party though anyway.
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Oct 30, 2023 23:14
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