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Nobody as self-interested as these folks would hold out even if Trump did pay them
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Oct 24, 2023 14:39
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Small fish, big fish, in the middle?
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Oct 24, 2023 14:44
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Nervous posted:Ah, the quantum defense. Too bad that defense is error prone and has a tendency to being destabilized when actually measured by a judge. Quantum defense isn't a bad comparison for presenting legal theories about innocence. Some of them might be mutually exclusive, but so long as any particular valid set of facts can resolve to innocent the machine shouldn't return guilty. Unfortunately it's being done by ape neuron activation and not our future blind idiot ai overlords.
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Oct 24, 2023 14:47
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Sarcastro posted:I don't know how I'm still somehow amazed at Trump's lack of foresight for things like that. Tbf, I convinced he is actually poor at this point. Between the various ongoing cases, I'm fairly sure he has blow through a lot of his on hand cash. With the NYC case putting his business Under scrutiny he can't just launder a bunch of Russian money either. I genuinely suspect he can't afford it.
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Oct 24, 2023 14:47
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Charlz Guybon posted:Small fish, big fish, in the middle? Middle. She is a trump campaign lawyer which ties it to him. But we already had the cracken. At this point the only people who could flip and be a real blow would be Rudy or Eastman.
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Oct 24, 2023 14:50
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Caros posted:Tbf, I convinced he is actually poor at this point. Agreed, but I do think he'd still be happy to stiff as many people who aren't him as possible even if he weren't broke. It's just who he is.
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Oct 24, 2023 14:51
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Caros posted:At this point the only people who could flip and be a real blow would be Rudy or Eastman. With each flip the plea offers are going to get less and less generous, so one of them better make up their mind quick
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Oct 24, 2023 14:56
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Would they even let Rudy flip?
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Oct 24, 2023 14:58
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Tayter Swift posted:Would they even let Rudy flip? Ehhhh? At this point I wouldn't because they have the deck so heavily stacked that they are really just worried about jury nullification. That said, civility politics might give him a plea deal just to say they did.
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Oct 24, 2023 15:04
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rudy could always plead guilty and i'm sure there's useful things prosecutors could potentially learn from him but he's the least reliable and least credible witness humanly imaginable, like all the problems with michael cohen times a million
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Oct 24, 2023 15:12
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They'd probably take almost any plea, because at the end of the day the only person who matters is Trump. If you can give evidence against him you can get something because there's one defendant history will remember.
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Oct 24, 2023 15:19
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Jenna Ellis flipping is amusing to me because she has several podcasts and radio shows in Evangelical MAGA land, where she has spent the last several months declaring that she 100% stands with President Trump and no she didn't have to admit in court that she lied about the election, that was Fake News, but also if you have the transcript she was totally coerced into saying it and didn't really mean it. Coming up next, Christian Nationalism: could it be a Good Thing?? Like definitely small potatoes in terms of the grand scheme of things but she's well on her way at being un-personed in a lot of lovely spaces and I'm totally fine with that.
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Oct 24, 2023 15:23
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Any plea is also more certain than a trial. Even an open-and-shut case relies on not making a clear mistake that sets up an appeal, not having a juror who goes off their own way, and not having a judge somewhere in the appeals chain with a wild hair up their rear end. Not to mention it gets the punishment now, rather than at the end of a multi-year appeals strategy.
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Oct 24, 2023 15:26
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Crunch Buttsteak posted:Jenna Ellis flipping is amusing to me because she has several podcasts and radio shows in Evangelical MAGA land, where she has spent the last several months declaring that she 100% stands with President Trump and no she didn't have to admit in court that she lied about the election, that was Fake News, but also if you have the transcript she was totally coerced into saying it and didn't really mean it. Coming up next, Christian Nationalism: could it be a Good Thing?? I'm pretty OK with these skidmarks on the underwear of humanity flipping and getting light sentences because there is still a ton of lovely stuff headed their way that they so richly deserve and the court cases are getting benefits from playing the game this way. Getting cast out of MAGA cult as a heretic and a betrayer means they are going to be absolutely reviled and quite possibly literally targeted by their former fellow travelers. If I were being morally consistent I should stand against that but I'm not and they're fascists so gently caress them I'll shed no tears if someone breaks in to their house with a hammer and beats the loving tar out of them. They're dead to the entire right wing machine, and the rest of civilized society isn't going to be too eager to rub elbows with them either.
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Oct 24, 2023 15:33
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https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1716815647030784497 Sure In New York, trial was postponed yesterday due to COVID exposure in the AG's office with 4 members of the team testing positive. It's resuming today and Kise is very upset: https://twitter.com/eorden/status/1716818184328863893 Not mad or concerned enough to mask, mind. But very upset: https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/1716821305935437920
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Oct 24, 2023 15:54
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skeleton warrior posted:Not to mention it gets the punishment now, rather than at the end of a multi-year appeals strategy. Ah, the time-value theory of prison. Fascists imprisoned now are worth more than fascists imprisoned in the future. I like it.
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Oct 24, 2023 16:11
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Has Trump said he didn't know Jenna Ellis and she just brought him coffee yet?
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Oct 24, 2023 16:17
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Dammit I was getting Jenna ellis and Pam Bondi confused.
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Oct 24, 2023 16:21
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Yeeeaaah, I'd be a lot more receptive to a doe-eyed "I was just a tiny widdle lawyer who made a mistake and got in over her head" explanation if she didn't spend the last few years portraying herself as Trump's One True Loyal Ally who fought for him every day because he was the only way we're going to get True Christian Values back into government, and that nobody in his inner circle had done anything wrong, ever. She's gonna get a slap on the wrist due to the plea deal, but this amount of kayfabe-breaking means she is not going to be welcome in the circles she was in before this.
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Oct 24, 2023 16:32
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It warms my heart to see so many flips.
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Oct 24, 2023 16:38
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Sarcastro posted:Agreed, but I do think he'd still be happy to stiff as many people who aren't him as possible even if he weren't broke. It's just who he is.
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Oct 24, 2023 16:40
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if Sydney and Jenna were never his lawyers, then nothing he said to them is privileged Bing Bong, so simple
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Oct 24, 2023 16:40
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Paracaidas posted:https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1716815647030784497 Trump is a huge germaphobe but what are the chances he’s gotten a booster since he left office? Like the first bout with Covid almost killed him so maybe? But then again, Trump.
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Oct 24, 2023 16:41
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Caros posted:Tbf, I convinced he is actually poor at this point. He's probably been technically poor since the 80s/90s, but functionally rich because he's leveraged beyond the hilt. Even now, once the NY ruling is fully enforced and most of his empire is liquidated, he'll remain functionally rich. He's long since transitioned from the bulk of his money coming from shady business to it coming from straight swindling. All his actual legal expenses are being paid for by campaign donations, and MAGA's full transition to a cult seems sufficient to last until he finally dies. Hell, there's a decent chance that dissolving all his businesses puts his assets into the black for the first time in decades while several big money lenders get soaked. I wonder if Ivanka's already taken most things of actual value from Trump Inc and moved them to her and Jared's competent idiots holdings.
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Oct 24, 2023 17:11
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Another thing about Ellis that I had forgotten about until I saw someone mention it on twitter is that she quite publicly fundraised for legal fees leading up to this. Even non-evangelical types like Mark Levin told their audiences to pitch in. Crowdfunding got her over 200K just from one site. I mean, sure, it's possible she had a change of heart once others started to flip, but I'd bet more on her wanting to get a nice chunk of change from her audience before torching her career entirely.
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Oct 24, 2023 17:21
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Murgos posted:Trump is a huge germaphobe but what are the chances he’s gotten a booster since he left office? Like the first bout with Covid almost killed him so maybe? But then again, Trump. So he probably does get boosters due to it giving him an ego boost and also because he’s high-risk.
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Oct 24, 2023 17:27
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Gyges posted:He's probably been technically poor since the 80s/90s, but functionally rich because he's leveraged beyond the hilt. Even now, once the NY ruling is fully enforced and most of his empire is liquidated, he'll remain functionally rich. I dunno. Trump strikes me as the sort that finances everything through constant rotating loans. I'd personally be shocked if there was anything of substance left when the music stops and everyone has to tally up. I can see MAGA cash keeping him from dying in a cardboard box. But I don't think he stays rich if he starts defaulting. Guess we'll probably see, though.
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Oct 24, 2023 17:33
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Murgos posted:Trump is a huge germaphobe but what are the chances he’s gotten a booster since he left office? Like the first bout with Covid almost killed him so maybe? But then again, Trump. He's also a huge hypocrite so he's probably vaxxing up immediately
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Oct 24, 2023 17:38
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Angry_Ed posted:He's also a huge hypocrite so he's probably vaxxing up immediately For the million true bad things that can be said about Trump he’s never been against the vaccine, has he? He just takes all the credit for it.
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Oct 24, 2023 17:46
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he's really in a tight spot because his business is in dissolution and not bankruptcy. He doesn't get chapter 7 protection, and has already lost the corporate personhood protection that separated personal assets from company ones (though he so blatantly used the org as a personal debt card it's unlikely those protections would have survived adverse legal actions). His impermissible uses of campaign funds are equally comical. He's absolutely his own worst enemy, can't keep his thumb out of the pie.
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Oct 24, 2023 17:47
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Fork of Unknown Origins posted:For the million true bad things that can be said about Trump he’s never been against the vaccine, has he? He just takes all the credit for it. He may never have specifically said "do not get the vaccine" but he also pushed all the quack poo poo like ivermectin, refused to mask and ordered others not to mask, and said covid wasn't a big deal to begin with so he doesn't get net points in his favor for not being antivaxx
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Oct 24, 2023 17:49
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Caros posted:Between the various ongoing cases, I'm fairly sure he has blow through a lot of his on hand cash. Most rich people are really cash-poor, and at any point have much more debt than cash. This is both because they can loan money at very favorable rates, giving them an advantage if they invest it, and because it's tax-optimal. Trump definitely still has a bunch of hard assets. The way you usually use those as cash without having to sell them is you take debt against them. However, judgements have priority over debt, and there are a whole bunch of cases that could be very expensive ongoing against him, meaning that lenders might be unwilling to deal with him. So he'd have to sell to have cash, and that would be newsworthy on it's own.
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Oct 24, 2023 18:04
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Also aren't a lot of those hard assets being basically shattered apart bit by bit?
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Oct 24, 2023 18:09
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Michael Cohen is testifying today in the fraud case. A taste of it from The Guardian's coverage:quote:Moments after Cohen resumed his testimony against Trump, he immediately detailed his alleged collusion with Weisselberg to gin up the former president’s net worth on financial documents.
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Oct 24, 2023 20:07
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Oct 24, 2023 20:29
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Seems bad... for Trump! https://twitter.com/KFaulders/status/1716919618055647430
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Oct 24, 2023 22:02
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Meadows should not be getting an immunity deal. He should be in the probation boat with Powell et al at best.
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Oct 24, 2023 22:12
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Maybe he had some really juicy documents that he was willing to part with for immunity.
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Oct 24, 2023 22:13
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Meadows should not be getting an immunity deal. He should be in the probation boat with Powell et al at best. Insiders protecting each other at the last minute... he's still under threat in George, right?
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Oct 24, 2023 22:13
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I just want all these fuckers to have a felony record. I don't care past that.
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Oct 24, 2023 22:35
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