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Josef bugman posted:I would assume Afghanistan for one, don't really know the second. He's talking about Ukraine. I don't know why he's pussyfooting around it. Also he's saying it's a "US war" and that it's already lost so that right there pretty much ruins his credibility.
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Oct 24, 2023 16:12
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Mid-Life Crisis posted:Have they publicized an outcry for external helicopter transport to get the critical out so they can move the rest who are naively thinking the hospital at this point is a shelter, or have they just been crying victim to hope to affect the outcome of the war? The Hippocratic oath persuades them to heal anyone who comes, even if they grab a gun and shoot their neighbor after recovering. It doesn’t demand they put thousands in harms way to save a few. The doctors are effectively using the civilians sheltered there as shields at this point. There’s not 5000 critical patients in the hospital, but there are people. The doctors are effectively playing politics and it’s emotional at this point to argue otherwise. Who is going to offer helis? And claiming doctors sitting a dark hospital doing what they can to help the injured are using patients as shields for political purposes is just stunning.
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Oct 24, 2023 16:13
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'why are the doctors using corner-store vinegar to disinfect full-body burns on five-year-olds* not organising helicopter fleets to airlift their entire hospitals to South Gaza where they will absolutely, definitely not be bombed' is a question so detached from the practical reality of the ongoing crisis that it doesn't seem to me like it deserves an answer, only a request for a permaban because seriously, what is this absolute freak even adding to these forums? * not hyperbole, but a reference to the ongoing horror-show that is Ghassan Abu-Sitta's Twitter account.
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Oct 24, 2023 16:23
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Mid-Life Crisis posted:Have they publicized an outcry for external helicopter transport to get the critical out so they can move the rest who are naively thinking the hospital at this point is a shelter, or have they just been crying victim to hope to affect the outcome of the war? The Hippocratic oath persuades them to heal anyone who comes, even if they grab a gun and shoot their neighbor after recovering. It doesn’t demand they put thousands in harms way to save a few. The doctors are effectively using the civilians sheltered there as shields at this point. There’s not 5000 critical patients in the hospital, but there are people. The doctors are effectively playing politics and it’s emotional at this point to argue otherwise. Good lord. This is monstrous. Nobody is offering helicopter transport or any other sort of transport....anywhere. Israel would totally shoot down any and all helicopters, for starters. "IDK man, Hamas might have been in those helicopters. You can't prove they weren't" Not sure where they're supposed to go, either. Israel wants Gazans to evacuate the north so they can annex it but there's nowhere to go! "Just go out to the loving desert or something idk just not here where you lived your whole life"
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Oct 24, 2023 16:26
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Darth Walrus posted:'why are the doctors using corner-store vinegar to disinfect full-body burns on five-year-olds* not organising helicopter fleets to airlift their entire hospitals to South Gaza where they will absolutely, definitely not be bombed' is a question so detached from the practical reality of the ongoing crisis that it doesn't seem to me like it deserves an answer, only a request for a permaban because seriously, what is this absolute freak even adding to these forums? Yeah, it's time to ban him. It has been time. It's a loving disgrace.
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Oct 24, 2023 16:29
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hawowanlawow posted:Yeah, it's time to ban him. It has been time. It's a loving disgrace. i know koos allows people to support literal genocide as long as you are calm enough and pretend to be doing Purely Rational Debate but, even with those incredibly low expectations, it's been loving staggering to see what they're letting people post as with previous failures along these lines, perhaps the policy of "as long as you're the nerdiest most insufferable debate guy alive you can post about how palestinians deserve murder" isn't good eke out fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Oct 24, 2023 |
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Oct 24, 2023 16:31
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I got probed for calling someone a coward but apparently that poo poo flies just fine. Saying that doctors are using their patients as human shields is beyond disgusting, and absolutely deserves a ban. I’m sure I’ll get probed for this post too, so I’ll go out with a bang: MLC, you’re a loving evil prick. Go gently caress your self. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 24, 2023 16:37
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Nobody with a functioning brain is ever going to buy "it was a PJI rocket misfire" because the IDF is still repeating claims debunked two weeks ago (as shown in the replies this happened in the IDF-backed Sabra and Shatila massacre over 40 years ago). They continue to fabricate evidence (or claim certain documents are things they are not) about Hamas terror manuals that even a child could see through. They also of course did the "PJI rocket misfire" lie during the last bombardment when they killed five kids. https://x.com/IDF/status/1716462311370633484?s=20 Jakabite posted:I got probed for calling someone a coward but apparently that poo poo flies just fine. Saying that doctors are using their patients as human shields is beyond disgusting, and absolutely deserves a ban. I’m sure I’ll get probed for this post too, so I’ll go out with a bang: MLC, you’re a loving evil prick. Go gently caress your self. It is pretty silly that insults are against the rules since insults are fundamental to posting. Especially when people will post without knowledge of the subject they're posting about fairly frequently. People have to be put in their place.
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Oct 24, 2023 16:37
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Mid-Life Crisis posted:Have they publicized an outcry for external helicopter transport to get the critical out so they can move the rest who are naively thinking the hospital at this point is a shelter, or have they just been crying victim to hope to affect the outcome of the war? The Hippocratic oath persuades them to heal anyone who comes, even if they grab a gun and shoot their neighbor after recovering. It doesn’t demand they put thousands in harms way to save a few. The doctors are effectively using the civilians sheltered there as shields at this point. There’s not 5000 critical patients in the hospital, but there are people. The doctors are effectively playing politics and it’s emotional at this point to argue otherwise. Attempting to move the patients would absolutely be a violation of the Hippocratic Oath (which is not necessarily what is sworn by). There is no safe way to move them.
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Oct 24, 2023 16:44
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hawowanlawow posted:Yeah, it's time to ban him. It has been time. It's a loving disgrace. Jakabite posted:I got probed for calling someone a coward but apparently that poo poo flies just fine. Saying that doctors are using their patients as human shields is beyond disgusting, and absolutely deserves a ban. I’m sure I’ll get probed for this post too, so I’ll go out with a bang: MLC, you’re a loving evil prick. Go gently caress your self. D&D premise is inherently liberal, it's that rational discussion can change minds. The authoritarian impulse to silence someone you disagree with isn't how functioning liberalism works.
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Oct 24, 2023 16:54
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The rest of the internet is calling for the genocide of Palestinians. It's not hard to find the kinda no nuance conversation that helps support Israel and its war effort. The posters who support that can "move down south," maybe a helicopter will come help them! In actual news, hostages have begun talking about their experiences https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-10-24-23/index.html?tab=Freed%20Hostages they were treated well, but conditions in the tunnels understandable were not good. Described as wet and dark, which I mean, tunnels be like that of course. One of the hostages described the network of tunnels as a massive spiderweb, lending to the belief that Israel has not actually succeeded in taking out the large network of tunnels in Gaza, that they believed they did in 2021. Hamas also had paramedics and doctors among their ranks, and they were seeing to any medical care the hostages needed. The hostages are also lending new criticism to Israeli security and the lie that they were able to keep Israeli citizens safe. Describing how they saw first hand how the entire system failed them and allowed them to be captured in the first place.
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Oct 24, 2023 17:02
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I said come in! posted:The hostages are also lending new criticism to Israeli security and the lie that they were able to keep Israeli citizens safe. Describing how they saw first hand how the entire system failed them and allowed them to be captured in the first place. Was there confirmation that Israel didn't want to accept these two hostages at first? That really baffled me.
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Oct 24, 2023 17:06
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wins32767 posted:D&D premise is inherently liberal, it's that rational discussion can change minds. The authoritarian impulse to silence someone you disagree with isn't how functioning liberalism works. There still has to be a point where some views are so abhorrent that they can't be tolerated. Saying that not only did the victims of warcrimes bring it on themselves, but that they also outright deserve it (and how else is someone supposed to interpret "Doctors are playing politics and using their patients as human shields"?) Is well past that point.
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Oct 24, 2023 17:08
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wins32767 posted:D&D premise is inherently liberal, it's that rational discussion can change minds. The authoritarian impulse to silence someone you disagree with isn't how functioning liberalism works. This site has always had a principle of probing/banning reality-detached psychoposting in order to facilitate saner, more functional conversations. What on Earth are you on about here?
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Oct 24, 2023 17:13
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Fairly clear why Israel is reluctant to negotiate for hostages; all signs suggest that Hamas is observant of the Quran with regards to treatment of captives. It makes the already-absurd argument that this is an existential war of defense against Jew-haters harder to sell. It's heartening to hear that the hostages are doing well, that Hamas' network is still alive, and that survivors & hostages have easily been the sanest voices in the conflict. I imagine part of that is getting extended time to interact with each other, but I believe either Emanrescu or Alzhared pointed out that the kibbutz bordering Gaza are more left-leaning than others; possible that a lot of the hostages are predisposed to understanding. Her interview mentions that the hostages were hit with sticks on their way to Gaza; in line with Shalit, where emotional fighters vent on the hostages, but by the time they're transferred kinder heads administrate. Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Oct 24, 2023 |
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Oct 24, 2023 17:13
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Mid-Life Crisis posted:Have they publicized an outcry for external helicopter transport to get the critical out so they can move the rest who are naively thinking the hospital at this point is a shelter, or have they just been crying victim to hope to affect the outcome of the war? The Hippocratic oath persuades them to heal anyone who comes, even if they grab a gun and shoot their neighbor after recovering. It doesn’t demand they put thousands in harms way to save a few. The doctors are effectively using the civilians sheltered there as shields at this point. There’s not 5000 critical patients in the hospital, but there are people. The doctors are effectively playing politics and it’s emotional at this point to argue otherwise. This is the most disgusting thing I have ever read on SA
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Oct 24, 2023 17:13
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shades of blue posted:This is the most disgusting thing I have ever read on SA Don't worry... a rational discussion will surely change minds here...
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Oct 24, 2023 17:15
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I would like to attempt to offer a gentle reminder of something that seems do get lost in the outrages we see happening right now, and we had a pretty much platonic ideal of an example earlier in this thread, viz:Pvt. Parts posted:Many reasons which are maybe not even fully understood by people firing said rockets themselves. And that's not a "hurr hurr look at these barbarians, violent in nature!" jab at the Palestinians/Hamas, but more of a recognition of the extremely long historical tentacles which emanate from the conflict. Sometimes the best reason people have for feuding is, like many aspects of culture, "because that's what we've always done, and that's how it's always been". I am not quoting this to get another kick in, but to make the point that the background for this conflict is not at all ancient, but very, very recent. Using myself and my own family as an example, I am in my 40s now, along with a lot of others here on this board. My father is now just approaching 70. And yet, things that I have a tendency to consider as "ancient history" is, to him, living memory. He can remember the Cuban misslie crisis. He can remember where he was when JFK was assassinated. He remembers being part of the crowd trying to catch a glimpse of Martin Luther King Jr. when he was awarded the Nobel Peace prize. These are events that he lived through - albeit at the periphery, since, well. He's Norwegian, as am I. All of us here, discussing this, have parents and grandparents, and if you're lucky, your grandparents are still alive, unlike mine. And if they are 85 or 90 years old? They were alive when the Holocaust happened. And when the Nakba happened. For a good portion of their lives, the US South was a segregated society. For the majority of their lives South Africa was an Apartheid state. I say all this to make the point that, just like those events and contrary to what we very easily end up thinking, the Nakba and the Holocaust are not ancient, but loving raw, bloody, recent history. There are still people alive today who were there for it, who experienced it, and they have told their children and grandchildren. The Founding Generation of Israel as a state may be gone - or near enough - but their children are in their 60s and 70s, and run the country. The survivors and victims of the Nakba, likewise, are fading fast, but they and their children have lived either as refugees, or with the brutal, degrading and humiliating occupation imposed on them by Israel. And now the children of the Nakba generation run Hamas and the PLO. My point is that we tend to forget just how absolutely, bone-deep, and intensely personal this is for the people involved in the leadership both in Israel and in Palestine. The Israel-Palestine conflict* as it exists today is very, very recent development, relatively speaking. You don't have to go back to the Crusades or the Ottomans. It 'hasn't always been that way'. It began in the early 1900s with Zionist immigration to Mandatory Palestine, gathered steam in the run-up to WW2, and was turbo-charged by the horrors of the Holocaust. It's about the children of the survivors of one atrocity inflicting further atrocities on someone else. And the people in charge do it with the fervor and the conviction of people for whom this is personal, who have 'made the hard choices'. To dismiss it as "ancient history" is to profoundly underestimate just how recent the history really is, and how powerfully they shape things today. Objects in the historical mirror are always, always, a lot closer than they appear. ed: * I hate to use the word 'conflict'. It's more like a slowly running war, sometimes hot, sometimes cold, but always on, always ready to break out. But Conflict is what we've apparently decided to call it, so that's what it is, I guess. TLM3101 fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Oct 24, 2023 |
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Oct 24, 2023 17:17
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Randalor posted:There still has to be a point where some views are so abhorrent that they can't be tolerated. Saying that not only did the victims of warcrimes bring it on themselves, but that they also outright deserve it (and how else is someone supposed to interpret "Doctors are playing politics and using their patients as human shields"?) Is well past that point. The ACLU used to defend literal Nazis before that was a term flung around willy nilly. If you aren't actively exhorting someone who can do so to cause imminent physical harm, you're on the safe side of the line. If you believe that rational debate and discussion can work, why would it be any other way? Abhorrent ideas should be trivial to refute and if you ban someone for wrongthink you're never going to persuade them to your way of thinking. EDIT: Not about I/P so I'll stop the derail. wins32767 fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Oct 24, 2023 |
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Oct 24, 2023 17:18
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wins32767 posted:The ACLU used to defend literal Nazis before that was a term flung around willy nilly. If you aren't actively exhorting someone who can do so to cause imminent physical harm, you're on the safe side of the line. If you believe that rational debate and discussion can work, why would it be any other way? Abhorrent ideas should be trivial to refute and if you ban someone for wrongthink you're never going to persuade them to your way of thinking. Not everyone can be convinced and not everyone is worth taking the time to convince. Likewise, in a community, there is no obligation to tolerate abhorrent people and their abhorrent opinions.
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Oct 24, 2023 17:21
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wins32767 posted:The ACLU used to defend literal Nazis before that was a term flung around willy nilly. If you aren't actively exhorting someone who can do so to cause imminent physical harm, you're on the safe side of the line. If you believe that rational debate and discussion can work, why would it be any other way? Abhorrent ideas should be trivial to refute and if you ban someone for wrongthink you're never going to persuade them to your way of thinking. I don't think they should be punished but we should be free to insult them to our heart's content. Also nobody believes rational discussion works on everyone or most everyone - the richest man alive believes the dumbest wrongest things it's possible to believe. An irrational person cannot be made rational through facts and it feels good to insult stupid people.
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Oct 24, 2023 17:23
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Mid-Life Crisis posted:Have they publicized an outcry for external helicopter transport to get the critical out so they can move the rest who are naively thinking the hospital at this point is a shelter, or have they just been crying victim to hope to affect the outcome of the war? The Hippocratic oath persuades them to heal anyone who comes, even if they grab a gun and shoot their neighbor after recovering. It doesn’t demand they put thousands in harms way to save a few. The doctors are effectively using the civilians sheltered there as shields at this point. There’s not 5000 critical patients in the hospital, but there are people. The doctors are effectively playing politics and it’s emotional at this point to argue otherwise. As a Muscogee Creek, it is appalling to me how badly you misappropriated the Trail of Tears to justify your equally appalling stance that Palestinian civilians must die to get sympathy. Utterly disgusting take and one of the record holders for misuse of historical comparisons.
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Oct 24, 2023 17:26
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ill agree to not banning them as long as i can call them a piece of poo poo for 'doctors using patients as human shields' without a probe
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Oct 24, 2023 17:27
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TLM3101 posted:My point is that we tend to forget just how absolutely, bone-deep, and intensely personal this is for the people involved in the leadership both in Israel and in Palestine. The Israel-Palestine conflict* as it exists today is very, very recent development, relatively speaking. You don't have to go back to the Crusades or the Ottomans. It 'hasn't always been that way'. I can understand and even sympathize with this, but unfortunately it shows just how awful and out of place some of these leaders are, primarily on the Israeli side, really exclusively this is all on Israel. Part of being a good world leader is being able to set aside your biases, and differences, and find a peaceful solution that benefits everyone and most importantly secures the freedom and basic needs of everyone within your country and around you. Sadly Israel's leadership is ran by pure hatred and bigotry. I know this would be an extremely tough pill to swallow for the United States and other western powers, but the right thing to do here is to break ties with Israel and demand that they cease their attacks on Palestinians, and for the western super powers to enact justice on behalf of Palestinians. Israel has taken advantage of the U.S. for too long in order to carry out their genocidal campaign against the native population in their region, and its time they finally face consequences for doing that.
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Oct 24, 2023 17:28
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A general problem of discussion of I/P is that there information environment is thoroughly contaminated; while all sources of information are imperfect, here virtually everything is legitimately suspect. The setting is an absolute playground for every kind of mis- and disinformation, from just about every actor, made all the worse by the heightened emotions of the subject. In this environment, there are many, many, many circumstances and situations where you just do not have good information- and a strong pressure to fill that gap with an assumption grounded in your prior beliefs. These gap-filling practices in turn become unexamined premises and points of severe conflict. Discussion would probably be more productive if it were grounded in what we do know rather than trying to compare the moral weight of different prior assumptions about things we don't know. wins32767 posted:D&D premise is inherently liberal, it's that rational discussion can change minds. The authoritarian impulse to silence someone you disagree with isn't how functioning liberalism works. I don't understand the connection you are drawing between D&D's "premise" and liberalism. pro starcraft loser posted:Was there confirmation that Israel didn't want to accept these two hostages at first? That really baffled me. I do not believe there was. Darth Walrus posted:This site has always had a principle of probing/banning reality-detached psychoposting in order to facilitate saner, more functional conversations. What on Earth are you on about here? Koos has an inconsistently applied practice of explicitly not punishing viewpoints; coupled with an extreme hesitancy to punish bad faith and a general lack of consistent moderation, it's basically an invitation to trolls. The thread has actually been much cleaner than one would expect under the circumstances.
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Oct 24, 2023 17:29
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wins32767 posted:D&D premise is inherently liberal, it's that rational discussion can change minds. The authoritarian impulse to silence someone you disagree with isn't how functioning liberalism works. e: actually re-reading that statement I now understand it's actually true. BUUNNI fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Oct 24, 2023 |
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Oct 24, 2023 17:36
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wins32767 posted:D&D premise is inherently liberal, it's that rational discussion can change minds. The authoritarian impulse to silence someone you disagree with isn't how functioning liberalism works. I am not at all interested in having my mind changed with respect to the apartheid and genocide of Palestinians.
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Oct 24, 2023 17:40
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Randalor posted:There still has to be a point where some views are so abhorrent that they can't be tolerated. Saying that not only did the victims of warcrimes bring it on themselves, but that they also outright deserve it (and how else is someone supposed to interpret "Doctors are playing politics and using their patients as human shields"?) Is well past that point. Discussions about sensitive topics that involve controversial viewpoints are fine and can even be really fun. Where poo poo gets aggravating and unproductive is when people reduce their arguments down as far as possible (whether you want to call it a "hot take" "sound byte" "slogan" or whatever) and just shout them at each other without engaging at all. This problem isn't unique to this thread, incidentally, it's endemic to pretty much all political discourse in the US right now. It's always been an undercurrent, but has gotten really pronounced in the last decade. I'd probably peg Gingrich's opposition to Clinton as the first place where it really started entering the political mainstream, but like I said you can find hints of it wherever you look. Since day one my main objective for this thread has been to tone down on people shouting past each other and dial up actual discussions that engage with each other. That's why the first thing I did was implement my "argue the point, not the poster / no insults" rule, because that was the biggest, most obvious symptom of the larger issue. It's a lot easier to simply dismiss someone who says something you don't like than engage with the argument. Moving forward I really, REALLY want to see people put at least some nominal effort into engaging with each other. That's what I was eyeballing when I flirted with imposing something similar to D&D's rules. I'm still trying to figure out how to make that work, but I think the best start is to be explicit about what would be great to see. Mid-Life Crisis. made a great post. Agree with it or disagree with it there's at least substance there and logic. This is a good thing and I would LOVE to see more of it. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 24, 2023 17:44
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brugroffil posted:Discussions about sensitive topics that involve controversial viewpoints are fine and can even be really fun. Where poo poo gets aggravating and unproductive is when people reduce their arguments down as far as possible (whether you want to call it a "hot take" "sound byte" "slogan" or whatever) and just shout them at each other without engaging at all. syq (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 24, 2023 17:45
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BUUNNI posted:I don't think blaming the literal child victims of the US military industrial complex is a tenet of liberalism It kind of is, but that's very much a discussion for another thread. In other news, arguing against the entire principle of bans and probations on a paid-membership forum on civil-rights grounds makes you look like a dingus even when you're not doing so to defend the 'hospitals have it coming' guy, and oh yes, the UN may be ceasing operations in Gaza due to a lack of resources: https://x.com/alextomo/status/1716812730781389133?s=46&t=ARI_L-v32Oind1-d9B3a3Q
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Oct 24, 2023 17:46
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Neurolimal posted:Fairly clear why Israel is reluctant to negotiate for hostages; all signs suggest that Hamas is observant of the Quran with regards to treatment of captives. It makes the already-absurd argument that this is an existential war of defense against Jew-haters harder to sell. The testimony of hostages released thus far does contradict the popular sentiment pushed online by Israeli supporters. That the hostages are being raped and tortured by the bestial Hamas.
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Oct 24, 2023 17:47
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brugroffil posted:
A great post doesn’t illicit nothing but visceral anger and disgust. By that logic I could make an effort post arguing that I think all Palestinians are rabid dogs, deserve to die, and I hope all 2 million in the Gaza Strip are massacred brutally, and you’d be applauding my well thought out reasoning or whatever. Fwiw I think Koos has done a decent job of moderating a very difficult to moderate thread, I just think MLC has posted some stuff that’s utterly beyond the pale. We wouldn’t accept a Nazi, we wouldn’t accept a rabid homophobe, I don’t see why we should welcome someone who seems to be implicitly endorsing an ongoing genocide. Like, so ongoing that in the time it took you to read this, multiple children were probably killed.
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Oct 24, 2023 17:56
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Jakabite posted:A great post doesn’t illicit nothing but visceral anger and disgust. By that logic I could make an effort post arguing that I think all Palestinians are rabid dogs, deserve to die, and I hope all 2 million in the Gaza Strip are massacred brutally, and you’d be applauding my well thought out reasoning or whatever. Check the dude's post history. I think he's doing a bit. Seems like a very tasteless and inappropriate bit, admittedly, but maybe I'm missing some context here.
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Oct 24, 2023 17:57
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Neurolimal posted:Fairly clear why Israel is reluctant to negotiate for hostages; all signs suggest that Hamas is observant of the Quran with regards to treatment of captives. It makes the already-absurd argument that this is an existential war of defense against Jew-haters harder to sell. Ummmm….what do you mean by this? This part to me reads as if you’re supportive of Hamas, is that a correct interpretation?
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Oct 24, 2023 18:01
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jfc It's Cyrano's infamous response to PCOS Bill's 'well-sourced' anti-islam rant. The idea that we must let all ideas be heard/posted in order to have true liberal discourse reminded me of it. I think the original thread (circa 2017) is long since gassed, but here's an ancient QCS thread quoting the original PCOS Bill post (which was in response to a Cyrano mod challenge!) and Cyrano's response. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3931083&userid=0&perpage=40&highlight=pcos,bill&pagenumber=1 e: here's the original thread and post.https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=3816810&pagenumber=202&perpage=40#post474357135 My syq was indirect commentary on the idea that brutal, vile posting should be allowed in the name of discourse/being open to new ideas. brugroffil fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Oct 24, 2023 |
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Oct 24, 2023 18:01
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Darth Walrus posted:This site has always had a principle of probing/banning reality-detached psychoposting in order to facilitate saner, more functional conversations. What on Earth are you on about here? This site bans both insane poo poo and also has had a history of mods banning good-faith posts based on their personal politics.
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Oct 24, 2023 18:07
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mannerup fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Nov 5, 2023 |
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Oct 24, 2023 18:07
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Darth Walrus posted:It kind of is, but that's very much a discussion for another thread. Yea I realized how stupid my statement sounded so I edited my post. You're correct that its absolutely a tenet of liberalism.
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Oct 24, 2023 18:07
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Kalit posted:Ummmm….what do you mean by this? This part to me reads as if you’re supportive of Hamas, is that a correct interpretation? Honestly I don't think there is anything wrong with supporting hamas. I don't full on agree with their methods, but they are freedom fighters, not a terrorist group. They are doing what they need to in order to secure freedom for the Palestinians and there is absolutely no choices they can make that is correct. But also no matter what they do, no one forced Israel to collectively punish the Palestinians, something Israel was already doing regardless of Hamas actions. They are also most likely not the barbaric butchers on October 7th that we are being led to believe. Many of the deaths on October 7 were actually caused by the IDF but we will likely never have an exact count https://mondoweiss.net/2023/10/a-gr...campaign=buffer mannerup posted:are you seriously framing beating, robbing and forcefully kidnapping an 85 year old woman as "emotional fighters vent[ing] on the hostages" and then continuing to detain her against her will as effort by "kinder heads"? they also continue to hold their husbands hostage, where their public statements need to be taken in the context they still have friends and family held by Hamas who are using their lives as political bargaining chips. I mean Israels response would be to kill both the hostage takers and the hostages. Neither is good though. I said come in! fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Oct 24, 2023 |
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Oct 24, 2023 18:10
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| # ? May 19, 2024 19:38 |
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Jakabite posted:
Actually until June 2023 D&D rules explicitly permitted arguing for Nazism, homophobia, or any other bigoted position as long as it followed all the other rules (calm, posting with effort, not calling another poster names like doodyhead). It took intervention by site admins to finally get this changed, and the modified rule is a passive-aggressive statement that Koos Group will not punish bigotry so you have to email the admins if you see it quote:III
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Oct 24, 2023 18:12
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