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Bear Retrieval Unit
Nov 5, 2009

Mudslide Experiment

well if you look at it from the standpoint of america deserving 9/11,

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Centrist Committee
Aug 6, 2019

Ardennes posted:

I can see that the US is panicking a bit here, on one hand, they are still trying to cool this thing down publicly.

information control – cooling things down “publicly” – doesn’t mean poo poo imo, the global majority can see the ongoing genocide and senses the weakness of the hegemon

skipmyseashells
Nov 14, 2020

Grem posted:

Lol the very idea that Israel looked at Russia and said "you're next"

not when they can call up america and get you guys to do it all for them

Zoeb
Oct 8, 2023

Dislike me? Don't spend $10 on a title. Donate to the Palestinian Red Crescent or Doctors Without Borders
https://www.palestinercs.org/en
https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/

Brogeoisie posted:

It is open and shut but Bellingcat is funded by NED, which is a known CIA front organization that exists solely to sound less scary. Read Rogue State by Willam Blum for some cliffnotes on this.

This is Bellingcat giving us its most scathing "Israel did it" evidence without calling it out directly. They're probably hoping it won't get them in trouble and give them credibility, but guaranteed they will get a call from their handlers telling them to walk it back and Arics post won't be there in a couple weeks.

Can you talk a little bit more about the national endowment for democracy? Wikipedia of course has an article about them that I could just read but I'm beginning not to trust them. I respect Robert Evans, I find his podcast very engaging and I am skeptical that he is a CIA agent like people are claiming that he is. Merely working for bellingcat is hardly proof. If he is a CIA agent he has made me more left-wing and not less so he's probably not very good at his job.

Lpzie
Nov 20, 2006

all the worst posters like him. that's all the proof I need.

The Oldest Man
Jul 28, 2003

Zoeb posted:

Can you talk a little bit more about the national endowment for democracy? Wikipedia of course has an article about them that I could just read but I'm beginning not to trust them. I respect Robert Evans, I find his podcast very engaging and I am skeptical that he is a CIA agent like people are claiming that he is. Merely working for bellingcat is hardly proof. If he is a CIA agent he has made me more left-wing and not less so he's probably not very good at his job.

are you familiar with the concept of a usual idiot

DancingShade
Jul 26, 2007

by Fluffdaddy

Zoeb posted:

Can you talk a little bit more about the national endowment for democracy? Wikipedia of course has an article about them that I could just read but I'm beginning not to trust them. I respect Robert Evans, I find his podcast very engaging and I am skeptical that he is a CIA agent like people are claiming that he is. Merely working for bellingcat is hardly proof. If he is a CIA agent he has made me more left-wing and not less so he's probably not very good at his job.

The National Endowment for Democracy (NED) is located in Washington, DC at:

1201 Pennsylvania Ave, NW, Suite 1100
Washington, DC 20004
Phone: (202) 378-9700
Fax: (202) 378-9407
E-mail: info@ned.org

https://www.ned.org/contact/

Don't worry I'm sure they're a fully independent body and quite trustworthy.

Zoeb
Oct 8, 2023

Dislike me? Don't spend $10 on a title. Donate to the Palestinian Red Crescent or Doctors Without Borders
https://www.palestinercs.org/en
https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/

Lpzie posted:

all the worst posters like him. that's all the proof I need.

You have very high standards

Zoeb
Oct 8, 2023

Dislike me? Don't spend $10 on a title. Donate to the Palestinian Red Crescent or Doctors Without Borders
https://www.palestinercs.org/en
https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/

The Oldest Man posted:

are you familiar with the concept of a usual idiot

Do you mean to say useful idiot?

smarxist
Jul 26, 2018

by Fluffdaddy
*makes some marks on a paper sheet of wavy lines being fed out by a strange machine*

The Oldest Man
Jul 28, 2003

Zoeb posted:

Do you mean to say useful idiot?

Yes!

Comrade Koba
Jul 2, 2007

Zoeb posted:

Can you talk a little bit more about the national endowment for democracy? Wikipedia of course has an article about them that I could just read but I'm beginning not to trust them. I respect Robert Evans, I find his podcast very engaging and I am skeptical that he is a CIA agent like people are claiming that he is. Merely working for bellingcat is hardly proof. If he is a CIA agent he has made me more left-wing and not less so he's probably not very good at his job.

apart from being CIA funded robert evans is also a war tourist who worked with the cops during the BLM protests and has posted on these very forums to brag about how much money he makes from podcasting.

he’s a loving dipshit who can be safely ignored until he inevitably gets #metoo:ed

DancingShade
Jul 26, 2007

by Fluffdaddy

Zoeb posted:

Do you mean to say useful idiot?

Usual and useful can probably be used interchangably in terms of reference of issue or financially motivated actors.

The Oldest Man
Jul 28, 2003

DancingShade posted:

Usual and useful can probably be used interchangably in terms of reference of issue or financially motivated actors.

I mean this also

Ardennes
May 12, 2002

Centrist Committee posted:

information control – cooling things down “publicly” – doesn’t mean poo poo imo, the global majority can see the ongoing genocide and senses the weakness of the hegemon

The question does DC pull back form the brink, humiliated, but with minimal material losses or goes in. I would argue though the situation isn't entirely in US/Israel's control and obviously particularly Hezbollah could turn the heat up if they wanted to.

Al-Saqr
Nov 11, 2007

One Day I Will Return To Your Side.
ashkelon, zekim and areas around gaza gettinf rocketed

https://x.com/alarabytv/status/1717060150479945875?s=46&t=kY7HKwmb1RBg9U186lxtbg

hamas are in perfect tactical control.

https://x.com/alarabytv/status/1717055522241663108?s=46&t=kY7HKwmb1RBg9U186lxtbg

8 syrian soliders died fron israeli bombing.

hadji murad
Apr 18, 2006

Rubellavator posted:

Hamas threatens the entire middle east? lol

it’s giving people ideas

fizzy
Dec 2, 2022

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Al-Saqr posted:

ashkelon, zekim and areas around gaza gettinf rocketed

https://x.com/alarabytv/status/1717060150479945875?s=46&t=kY7HKwmb1RBg9U186lxtbg

hamas are in perfect tactical control.

they’re a disinformation mediator with deliberately opaque funding. Al-Saqr is generally the target demo for their Arabic language material.

The Oldest Man
Jul 28, 2003

Ardennes posted:

The question does DC pull back form the brink, humiliated, but with minimal material losses or goes in. I would argue though the situation isn't entirely in US/Israel's control and obviously particularly Hezbollah could turn the heat up if they wanted to.

The US and Israel are politically paralyzed. They've already stated the goals: completely eliminate Hamas and pacify Gaza totally. Anything less is politically unacceptable and the amount of doubling and tripling down on that is only going to increase. Meanwhile, Hamas sent frogmen into an Israeli military base today and it's pretty clear neutralizing them is not within the empire's military capabilities short of Doing A Genocide. And obviously the imperial apparatus is a totally immoral killing machine so not doing a genocide is way less politically palatable than making terms with Hamas at this moment.

Orbis Tertius
Feb 13, 2007

Oglethorpe posted:


I PITY THE PROLE

erosion
Dec 21, 2002

It's true and I'm tired of pretending it isn't

Morbus posted:

These sound similar to injuries that were reported during cast lead and other IOF bombings. They are probably from bombs that use either inert or reactive metal powders to increase lethality in the near-field and increase the blast impulse at the expense of fragmentation.

These are sometimes billed as "lower collateral effect" munitions but the reality is they have more in common with enhanced blast or "thermobaric" weapons and they are used for similar reasons. Also there seems to be a trend away from "inert" metal powders like tungsten and towards more reactive but still-dense ones like tantalum, which really puts them more in the category of high blast weapons rather than any bs about reducing collateral damage. The wounds from these weapons are horrific and basically impossible to treat.

White phosphorus rounds are commonly used to illuminate areas, although deliberate use against human targets is strictly prohibited.

Ardennes
May 12, 2002

The Oldest Man posted:

The US and Israel are politically paralyzed. They've already stated the goals: completely eliminate Hamas and pacify Gaza totally. Anything less is politically unacceptable and the amount of doubling and tripling down on that is only going to increase. Meanwhile, Hamas sent frogmen into an Israeli military base today and it's pretty clear neutralizing them is not within the empire's military capabilities short of Doing A Genocide. And obviously the imperial apparatus is a totally immoral killing machine so not doing a genocide is way less politically palatable than making terms with Hamas at this moment.

It's dark but I don't know if a genocide would be enough to get rid of Hamas, the Israelis could wipe the civilians of Gaza out completely, and the Hamas would likely still be in operation. They obviously still have tunnels open into Egypt and are getting some supplies; it isn't enough for 2 million people but probably enough for the 35,000 soldiers they have.

They don't need "just" a genocide; they need the Israelis to engage in a ruin by ruin battle for the entity of the strip, this has to go on despite the huge Ls Israel has already taken. They have to turn the entire place over completely. Not only would they get a black mark in front of humanity by killing 2 million people, they it wouldn't give them any strategic leverage.

They can't use their nukes either, and bunker busters aren't accurate enough for what they hope to accomplish.

Ardennes has issued a correction as of 07:25 on Oct 25, 2023

Al-Saqr
Nov 11, 2007

One Day I Will Return To Your Side.

fizzy posted:

they’re a disinformation mediator with deliberately opaque funding. Al-Saqr is generally the target demo for their Arabic language material.

i could really use some opaque funding right now not gonna lie

Orbis Tertius
Feb 13, 2007

Al-Saqr posted:

i am reading a bunch of weak kneed shitlibs online saying we shouldnt have stalinists and grifters like jackson hinkle and such have a platform.

listen, we all know theyre pieces of poo poo, but you work with the allies you have first, you use every weapon in the arsenal, jackson is a piece of poo poo? yes. but hes doing numbers, hes "on our side" for now and ratio-ing the president of the united loving states of america. loving stop whining and keep posting death to israel.

Centrist Committee
Aug 6, 2019

The Oldest Man posted:

The US and Israel are politically paralyzed. They've already stated the goals: completely eliminate Hamas and pacify Gaza totally. Anything less is politically unacceptable and the amount of doubling and tripling down on that is only going to increase. Meanwhile, Hamas sent frogmen into an Israeli military base today and it's pretty clear neutralizing them is not within the empire's military capabilities short of Doing A Genocide. And obviously the imperial apparatus is a totally immoral killing machine so not doing a genocide is way less politically palatable than making terms with Hamas at this moment.

yeah and more than that they’re all on autopilot. even biden, the nominal head of empire, clearly has no affirmative vision or sense of agency. the problem is that there’s no material consequences for anyone in power. number go up regardless what any of the handsome generals or haters and loser as state think. on the other hand you have the wretched of the earth who have quite literally grown up under imperial domination and are materially invested in liberation. the only response the us can muster is PR crisis management. everything else has been outsourced to proxies.

Pomeroy
Apr 20, 2020

Neurolimal posted:

Went to check out the Haaretz article and lmao



Zelensky-rear end relating

They are getting worse at this propaganda thing every single day, aren't they?

zetamind2000
Nov 6, 2007

I'm an alien.

The Oldest Man posted:

Meanwhile, Hamas sent frogmen into an Israeli military base today

does anyone have a news story about this that isn't from an idf source? there was something posted earlier but I can't remember what page it's on

Centrist Committee
Aug 6, 2019

Zoeb posted:

Can you talk a little bit more about the national endowment for democracy? Wikipedia of course has an article about them that I could just read but I'm beginning not to trust them. I respect Robert Evans, I find his podcast very engaging and I am skeptical that he is a CIA agent like people are claiming that he is. Merely working for bellingcat is hardly proof. If he is a CIA agent he has made me more left-wing and not less so he's probably not very good at his job.

yeah that’s the problem with people like evans, he’ll lead you to “left-wing” politics but not marxism/communism

Al-Saqr
Nov 11, 2007

One Day I Will Return To Your Side.
the boys are back in town, the band is back together

https://x.com/spectatorindex/status/1717065229996290328?s=46&t=kY7HKwmb1RBg9U186lxtbg

FlapYoJacks
Feb 12, 2009
Hamas and the Islamic Jihad is a good band name.

Sancho Banana
Aug 4, 2023

Not to be confused with meat.

M.W.A

gently caress THE IDF

salartarium
Sep 7, 2021

Pookah posted:

I was watching a bunch of steve1989 MRE review videos, a few weeks ago, and the IDF one was just so bad - it was basically nothing but cans of plain tuna and maybe some instant coffee.
Steve explained it's like this because Israeli soldiers can nearly always order pizza instead.

Yes I found this one interesting. Maybe because other countries have exotic stuff like reindeer, the IDF one was very disappointing to me. It was like someone went to a Dollar General and bought anything that was shelf stable. The other, video of his that I found interesting was when he went to the hospital after eating the PLA one and he later stated that his research shows that many in China complain about the food safety of their rations. I think the only other fresh one that he got sick from was Ukrainian.

DancingShade
Jul 26, 2007

by Fluffdaddy

erosion posted:

White phosphorus rounds are commonly used to illuminate areas, although deliberate use against human targets is strictly prohibited.

Honestly I'm surprised Israel hasn't got spare naval targeting lasers in place specifically to flash gaza and blind anyone they can see. Though I suppose dropping phosphor is a lot more practical and it stops snipers from shooting out your toy.

Not So Fast
Dec 27, 2007


Centrist Committee posted:

yeah that’s the problem with people like evans, he’ll lead you to “left-wing” politics but not marxism/communism

its this, the anarchist or OSINT sphere exists to look good and left-wing in a performative way, and they can even criticise the CIA or Israel sometimes as a treat, but they exist to herd people into a dead-end that doesn't organise or achieve anything

Votskomit
Jun 26, 2013

Zoeb posted:

Can you talk a little bit more about the national endowment for democracy?

China's consulate in Malaysia has a really good fact sheet on NED.


http://penang.china-consulate.gov.cn/eng/zt_19/zgwj/202205/t20220511_10684485.htm

Some quotes:


quote:

As early as in 1991, the founder of NED Alan Weinstein put it bluntly in an interview with the Washington Post that a lot of what they were doing was what the CIA had done 25 years ago. NED was therefore known globally as the “second CIA”.
...


NED was seen behind color revolutions instigated and orchestrated by the United States, including the disintegration of the Soviet Union, the Rose Revolution in Georgia, the Orange Revolution in Ukraine, and the Arab Spring. 

..

While commenting on NED’s activities in Belarus, Dmitry Yegorchenkov, a Russian expert on international relations, said that NED funded many “independent media”, and while the funding for any individual media outlet may not look that significant, the recipients are many. According to the NED website, between 2016 and 2020, NED funded 119 projects in Belarus under the category of “Freedom of Information”, spending an average of 50,000 US dollars on each project. This particular category received more funding than any other category for five consecutive years.

...

Supporting pro-US political forces in the central American country of Nicaragua was among the first programs of NED after its inception in 1983. Between 1984 and 1988, NED provided about 2 million US dollars of funds to the opposition forces in Nicaragua, helping their leader Violeta Chamorro to become president-elect in 1990. As of today, NED is still channeling funds to the opposition and right-wing media outlets in Nicaragua via the Violeta Barrios de Chamorro Foundation for Reconciliation and Democracy established after Violeta Chamorro stepped down.

...

According to data released on its website in 2020, NED provided over 10 million US dollars of grants for 69 China-related programs within one year which were aimed to deliver various activities endangering China’s political and social stability.

...

On 11 July, large-scale anti-government demonstrations broke out in many cities, including the capital Havana. Investigations by the Cuban government found close ties between US government agencies and the demonstrations, in which NED played an important role. In the weeks before the demonstrations, anti-government messages surged on social media, which effectively manipulated public sentiments, caused dissatisfaction and incited protests. In the days shortly before the demonstrations, a large number of new accounts popped up on Twitter, which liked and retweeted unverified anti-government posts, all with the hashtag #SOSCuba. According to the Cuban foreign minister, investigations showed close links between these accounts and a company based in Miami, Florida.

...

Spreading the “political virus” and politicizing COVID-19 origins-tracing. Since the start of the pandemic, the NED-funded “Uyghur American Association” and its affiliates continuously peddled right-wing conspiracy theories, blaming China for the pandemic and all related deaths, and circulating rumors that China is waging a “virus war” on the world and “purposefully, intentionally exporting the virus to cause the pandemic”. Such rumor-mongering fed anti-China and anti-Asian sentiments in the United States and other Western countries.

...

Fueling tensions and hyping up the concept of “sharp power”. In November 2017, NED’s Vice President for Studies and Analysis Christopher Walker and Senior Program Officer Jessica Ludwig wrote an article on Foreign Affairs titled “The Meaning of Sharp Power: How Authoritarian States Project Influence”, marketing the concept of “sharp power” for the first time and whipping up a new round of “China threat theory”. In December 2017, NED issued a report titled Sharp Power: Rising Authoritarian Influence, demonizing China and Russia by alleging that for more than a decade, the two countries have spent huge funds on influencing target countries or groups with non-conventional means such as division, purchased loyalty and manipulation in an attempt to shape global opinion and perception.



One way to think of it is to see that the NED tends to fuel Pro-Democracy, anti-government and anti-authoritarian (anarchist) movements and sentiments. One reason being that those ones are easy to manipulate or ignore.

When people listen to Robert Evans talk poo poo about Lukashenko or Putin or Xi or Castro, or about some American billionaire or politician, it either serves their interests or makes no difference to them. People getting mad at individuals and having this vague sense of anger and frustration without being organised or disciplined suits the NED just fine.

This is doubly true if you see that Evans praises failed anarchist revolutions, and never praises a successful revolution like USSR, China, Vietnam, Cuba, Laos, or the DPRK.

Votskomit has issued a correction as of 07:47 on Oct 25, 2023

mcclay
Jul 8, 2013

Oh dear oh gosh oh darn
Soiled Meat
Evans isn't bad for like, general news and poo poo so long as you just tune him out whenever he talks about anything releated to historical communism. It Could Happen Here's stuff on Stop Cop City down in Atlanta is pretty good.

Its pop, vaugely left radio. I don't think Evans is a CIA dude, I think hes just a dumb anarchist who likes military geekery so much that he was happy to work with OSINT freaks like Brown Moses.

Anyways DTI, you do not have to hand it to Jackson 'one of like 4 actually existing Nazbols' Hinkle and Gaza will win. All power to the PFLP and the DFLP. Palestine will be Bibi's grave

Morbus
May 18, 2004

erosion posted:

White phosphorus rounds are commonly used to illuminate areas, although deliberate use against human targets is strictly prohibited.

Yeah but doctors in Gaza are very familiar with wounds created by WP as it's use is both common and longstanding (dti)

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

https://twitter.com/khalilasslan/status/1716938905000575351?s=46&t=UyfxoSAUKW7QZlR_GhkuYA

this was the IDF column that entered Jenin before having to call air support because the Palestinians shot back.

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

https://twitter.com/seamus_malek/status/1717070164108382591?s=46&t=UyfxoSAUKW7QZlR_GhkuYA

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mcclay
Jul 8, 2013

Oh dear oh gosh oh darn
Soiled Meat

lmao

dti

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