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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:The moral complexity comes from the fact that the imperium is so pointlessly oppressive and cruel that individuals continue to routinely make pacts with daemons that feed on the specific type of fear you generate when you see your children skinned alive. chaos is always, unequivocally 100% evil but it’s also sometimes very tempting, and that’s an interesting story to tell! Exactly. A character can potentially gain a respite from suffering for themselves, by inflicting even worse suffering on others - that's good material for storytelling, and the daily horror of life as a slave (quasi or literal) in the Imperium is easily enough to drive many to exactly that. The complexity isn't in the Ruinous Powers themselves, it's in their mortal servants.
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Oct 25, 2023 16:51
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What recent AoS novels/audio dramas/whatever have been good?
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Oct 25, 2023 17:02
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Hiro Protagonist posted:What recent AoS novels/audio dramas/whatever have been good? Yndrasta by Noah van Nguyen (all his AoS books are good), Prince Maesa by Halye is decent , Last Volari is fun if you like vampires (hollow king is kinda whatever)
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Oct 25, 2023 17:10
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:yeah i mean the only reason the imperium even remotely makes sense diegetically is if there’s an even worse horror out there it’s protecting people from. without the external threat of chaos the imperium could never survive, that type of callousness and brutality is absolute poison to governments. Yup and the origins of a lot of the horrible bullshit is somewhat explored in the siege of tera books
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Oct 25, 2023 20:15
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Someday I'm going to finish this Cypher book
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Oct 25, 2023 20:51
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Black Griffon posted:The thing about true evil is that if you start veering into The Great Four Centrism it just kinda muddies the abject horror of true evil. I think that we search for reasons and explanations for evil acts out of instinct, because it can either help us see the good in something or rationalize awful things by pointing to external factors and nurture rather than nature. To have something be undeniably cruel and evil makes us feel powerless, and to know that it will remain evil throughout eternity no matter what we do is an overwhelming and hopeless feeling, as it should be. i think its also partly that most the people in the books explaining or defending chaos are deeply broken people and are so sunk cost in it that they come up with cope reasons. lorgar is fun because he is weirdo who desperetly wanted to find that would make him feel small and loved and something he could worship. if it wasnt Big E or the chaotic combo, it would have been something else. they guy needed a big mommy or daddy to make him feel rightness in the galaxy. so when he found it, he bent the knee even though he knows its utterly evil and horrible, it told him the truth and their can be no going back. DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:yeah i mean the only reason the imperium even remotely makes sense diegetically is if there’s an even worse horror out there it’s protecting people from. without the external threat of chaos the imperium could never survive, that type of callousness and brutality is absolute poison to governments. yeah. i like how you can see the beginnings of it and the justifications of it with in the heresy novels. chaos operates on narratives so of course demons need angels to fight them with flame and fury.
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Oct 25, 2023 21:03
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I feel like its been a decade since The End and The Death part 1. And now I see theres a secret 3rd book because Dan Abnett cant be stopped by any editor known to man. Any indication of when the 2nd book will be out? They teased the cover like 6 months ago and all of the expected launch dates have come and gone.
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Oct 25, 2023 21:25
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They literally sold the second book this past weekend, should be out in a week or so.
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Oct 25, 2023 21:31
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It comes out next weekend sometime I believe?
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Oct 25, 2023 21:32
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Week after, the 4th. They've moved to a 2 week pre-order time from the preview in the past couple of months.
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Oct 25, 2023 21:45
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I'm terrified of what kind of ridiculous poo poo Dan is going to make canon now to stretch this out over 2 books.
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Oct 25, 2023 21:49
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sharknado slashfic posted:I'm terrified of what kind of ridiculous poo poo Dan is going to make canon now to stretch this out over 2 books. The Inevitable City has manifested on Terra and time and space are now opinions, so, probably an impossible odyssey across an infinite mad city. Guilliman is a day away. He has been a day away for months, possibly years.
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Oct 25, 2023 21:55
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By God let Dan's freak flag fly is my opinion.
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Oct 26, 2023 00:23
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serious gaylord posted:I feel like its been a decade since The End and The Death part 1. And now I see theres a secret 3rd book because Dan Abnett cant be stopped by any editor known to man. Yeah, volume 2 is real close to release, and volume 3 is early next year, February I think? Volume 4 will be next fall most likely  After all the well-deserved complaining about Abnett rushing his endings that has happened over the years, now of course people are complaining about him not rushing the endings, just can't please everyone I guess.
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Oct 26, 2023 00:29
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wiegieman posted:Book 2 is a week away. It has been a week away for months, possibly years.
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Oct 26, 2023 01:08
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Benagain posted:Guys? I've got a shiny dollar coin that says Malal is name dropped as an alternate title for the Dark King.
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Oct 26, 2023 01:18
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 I had an actual Siege of Terra dream after the second time I read The End and the Death. No violence, just marching with a bunch of people towards a destination, only to realize after being told that the destination was "three hours away" that we would never be able to reach it because time no longer existed. Also I was trying to keep track of time by drumming on a log with a pair of entrenching tools in a particular pattern and counting how many times I'd repeated the pattern.
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Oct 26, 2023 01:41
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IshmaelZarkov posted:I've got a shiny dollar coin that says Malal is name dropped as an alternate title for the Dark King. This would unironically be the coolest thing they could do. It won't happen, but I would absolutely lose my poo poo if it did.
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Oct 26, 2023 02:13
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Kylaer posted:
Hot drat that's a good one. Send it to Abnett.
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Oct 26, 2023 02:37
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Kylaer posted:
Don't follow the patterns. That way lies Heresy.
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Oct 26, 2023 02:46
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Arc Hammer posted:Don't follow the patterns. That way lies Heresy. The pattern was left right left left right left right right, very simple because I don't know anything about drumming. I just realized the pattern has eight beats.
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Oct 26, 2023 02:50
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Kylaer posted:The pattern was left right left left right left right right, very simple because I don't know anything about drumming. Remain calm. A team of inquisitorial stormtroopers is on its way to your location, to help.
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Oct 26, 2023 04:28
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DaysBefore posted:The Chaos gods represent all their loosely connected emotions but the negative ones are more powerful and/or prevalent. Still, them also being seen through their good aspects is always an interesting way to explain why people worship them the problem is, none of these things stop. Chaos has no sense of moderation, which is why Nurgle's bounteous life is just endless explosion of germs and cancer, Slaanesh's inspiration inevitably leads to obsession, Khorne's veneration of warriors is veneration of indiscriminate murder, and Tzeentch's grand cosmic order is grand cosmic entropy so complete that any understanding achieved of it is enough to break you. Then still having these initial positive aspects on discovery is totally compatible with the setting's premise, but the setting as an ongoing story isn't about discovery; it's about consequences.
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Oct 26, 2023 06:20
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Have I seriously missed the pre order and its out on Saturday? Or does it go up for Pre-Order on Saturday?
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Oct 26, 2023 13:06
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serious gaylord posted:Have I seriously missed the pre order and its out on Saturday? Or does it go up for Pre-Order on Saturday? It went up for preorder last Saturday. However the regular hardback can still be preordered on the regular preorder page. It’s just the limited edition you missed.
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Oct 26, 2023 13:36
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Sinner Sandwich posted:This would unironically be the coolest thing they could do. It won't happen, but I would absolutely lose my poo poo if it did. It’s some legal poo poo where they can’t say Malal or use any of that lore? Maybe they can describe something with malicious intent that can never be named and such.
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Oct 26, 2023 13:57
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MariusLecter posted:It’s some legal poo poo where they can’t say Malal or use any of that lore? Maybe they can describe something with malicious intent that can never be named and such. Yeah, an old legal issue with the folks who made the comics that Malal and Kaleb Daark originally showed up in. It's why there was mention of a minor chaos God called Malice in 40k, complete with an affiliate chaos warband, the Sons of Malice. So, I guess the workaround is already there if they want to use it. Squats are back, minor chaos gods show up in AoS, why not our boy Malal?
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Oct 26, 2023 14:10
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Sons of Malice are funny. Militant atheist Chaos followers is such an ironic contradiction. Also their paint job is neat.
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Oct 26, 2023 15:35
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Personally I like to view the chaos gods when taken to their extreme. For example Nurgle is viewed as a god of decay and despair but in reality he is a god of life, and not just selective life like Alarielle. Nurgle rightly views bacteria and fungus as life as well. Bacterial decay and disease are usually at war with a healthy body, but for a worshiper of Nurgle, this war and conflict has ended and the body is able to live in harmony with the microbial and fungal life. In this way, Nurgle attempts to create a universe of homeostasis where there is no death or decay, just stagnation and status quo. Khorne is not so much endless bloodshed but instead focused on the drive to be better than others in martial prowess and the sense of satisfaction one gets from violent pursuits and besting an opponent. It's not so much the killing, but the fight itself and post fight satisfaction that matters. This is why a Khorne champion doesn't get much enjoyment from, and usually is depicted as being annoyed by, killing weak chaff. It's also why it doesn't matter who bleeds because it is about the fight itself, the blood just being the representation of the energy of combat and testing yourself, and the skull being a representation of victory over a tough opponent. In this way, Khorne favors the weak over those who are stronger. Tzeench is the true god of excess and overstepping boundaries. It's seeking knowlege without ethics, which includes medical experimentation which in my opinion means that Fabius Bile is more Tzeenchian than Slaaneshi. It also represents creating change at any cost, which is why betrayal and elaborate schemes are in its purview. It isn't the scheme itself, it is the desire to create a change in the status quo that feeds it. As for Slaanesh, it is the god of obsession and fixation, and how the pursuit of obsession affects the individual. Slaanesh is one of the most interesting gods because ALL worship feeds it. A khorne warrior focusing on martial prowess feeds Slaanesh. The Eldar path system where they obsess exclusively over a single aspect for centuries at a time until they perfect it feeds slaanesh, with those lost to thr path of the exarch essentially becoming trapped by obsession. Even the Imperium's focus on genetic purity, human superiority, and worship of the Emperor ends up feeding Slaanesh. In fact all devotion, in its own way, will feed Slaanesh a little bit. Especially cults like the Adeptus Mechanicus, which obsessed over replacing flesh with the perfection of the mechanical, even to their own detriment. The focus on sensation isn't so much the essence of Slaanesh but instead the byproduct of obsession where only the product of the obsession will provide the proper feeling of pleasure. It's essentially the extreme version of ADHD, a disorder where the brain doesn't produce dopamine properly and only produces it when the afflicted individual is either working on their current fixation or has surrounded themselves with as much external stimulation as possible in order to trigger dopamine release. Or the use of stimulant prescription drugs to slow absorption of dopamine. Slaanesh causes that in its followers. An extreme need to hyperfixate on the current obsession as well as fill one's every moment with as much external stimulation as possible at the expense of impulse control. Which essentially becomes an addiction to Slaanesh more than any other. It is this combination of obsession combined with addiction that results in the excess that is attributed to Slaanesh, though I'd argue that the excess is more of a byproduct of Slaanesh than its essence.
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Oct 26, 2023 16:12
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Mazed posted:the problem is, none of these things stop. Yes and that's why it's cool. You get the suckers in with the harvest god and ten years later they are eating babies and wearing skull necklaces. We have *extremely huge nerd voice* textual examples of places like Colchis where entire societies worshipped the Gods without it being a planet entirely composed of people that look like this  Nevermind that that's exactly how it works for many societies in Fantasy and there was never any real difference between Chaos in the two settings. Infinitely more intersting to show people who live normal lives under a wacky system than a never-ending horde of mindless berserkers
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Oct 26, 2023 18:22
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DaysBefore posted:Yes and that's why it's cool. You get the suckers in with the harvest god and ten years later they are eating babies and wearing skull necklaces. We have *extremely huge nerd voice* textual examples of places like Colchis where entire societies worshipped the Gods without it being a planet entirely composed of people that look like this i haven’t read the Lorgar Primarch novel, which is as far as i know the only real insight we have into pre-imperial Colchis. I’m interested in what it says about how that society ran.
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Oct 26, 2023 18:29
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Kindle pre-orders for EatD vol 2 are up! https://www.amazon.com/End-Death-Horus-Heresy-Siege-ebook/dp/B0CKVZPHHJ/
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Oct 26, 2023 18:33
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Nine loving days! That's too long. Why can't I just get everything I want immediately 
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Oct 26, 2023 20:04
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Fall of Cadia is out this weekend to tide you over I think.
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Oct 26, 2023 21:08
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I recently relistened to the Valdor Birth of the Imperium audiobook and this passage stood out to mequote:Malcador nodded. ‘A risk. But we did not get where we are now without taking risks.’ He reached out and clapped Valdor’s arm. ‘We shall speak of this again. You shall speak of this with Him too, when He returns. Hone your arguments – I judge that He is determined to hunt for them. He has taken to referring to them as His “sons”. Can you imagine that? Neither could I, until I heard it from His own lips. There might even be some lingering attachment, there, though how long it will last I cannot say.’ Makes me wonder how much Big E had to sacrifice to make the primarchs/steal power from Chaos
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Oct 26, 2023 21:36
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Improbable Lobster posted:I recently relistened to the Valdor Birth of the Imperium audiobook and this passage stood out to me The ol' "he had to put something of himself in each primarch" ?
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Oct 27, 2023 05:55
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Valdor is a very good book. The intro also raises a lot of questions about what the hell is going on re: Emperor, his powers and the Chaos Gods. The audiobook is absolutely superb and the final scenes between Valdor and Ushotan has Pacey giving it his all.
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Oct 27, 2023 06:57
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von Metternich posted:Fall of Cadia is out this weekend to tide you over I think. It seems weird to me they're doing a 'Fall of Cadia' book now. I mean wasn't that Cadia Stands plus the short stories and all the background text in that campaign book literally called 'The Fall of Cadia', and these are all 5+ years old now. I thought they'd moved on to 'What happens to the survivors of Cadia' as the thing now.
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Oct 27, 2023 15:56
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I'm glad they're doing it because Robert Rath is a Good Writer and the other stuff IIRC was written by people who were not Good Writers. I am hype for it and will be reading it right away.
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Oct 27, 2023 16:15
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Deptfordx posted:It seems weird to me they're doing a 'Fall of Cadia' book now. well well well someone is trying to not never forget segmentum obscurus 9/11. jé telephoné la inquisitión.
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Oct 27, 2023 16:42
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