Strategy & Wargames - middlebrow autodidact "history buffs" who yearn to pull levers

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > Strategy & Wargames - middlebrow autodidact "history buffs" who yearn to pull levers

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Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

Charging through minefields and committing war crimes are pretty niche skills, but the SS found a way to win lasting fame through them regardless.

# ? Oct 26, 2023 17:47

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# ? May 29, 2024 13:58

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Frosted Flake posted:

Charging through minefields and committing war crimes are pretty niche skills, but the SS found a way to win lasting fame through them regardless.

Thus forever proving that where there is a Will there is a way.

# ? Oct 26, 2023 18:43

my dad: Oct 17, 2012; this shall be humorous

Still planning to do the Dom5 posting, but life's been kinda hectic lately and while I'm not particularly short on time, I'm very short on focus and brainpower. Haven't even done anything Dom6 beta related for days.

# ? Oct 26, 2023 19:18

Fuligin: Oct 27, 2010; wait what the fuck??

started the Kursk dlc for UoC and got done with Prokhorovka. It was a very fun scenario, had to restart it thricely and it played out v differently depending on RNG each time

# ? Oct 26, 2023 20:29

StashAugustine: Mar 24, 2013; Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

Anyone have good recs for phone grog war games?

# ? Oct 26, 2023 20:59

Megamissen: Jul 19, 2022; any post can be a kannapost
if you want it to be

the changes made to race creation in aow4 in the upcoming expansion, from one body and one mind trait to a points based system like in stellaris was needed
i would have prefered the new class to have been more "stately" themed instead of conquistador raiders but i still get to blast things with muskets and cannon so im happy

# ? Oct 26, 2023 23:50

BadOptics: Sep 11, 2012

StashAugustine posted:

Anyone have good recs for phone grog war games?

There used to be the John Tiller games, but since he died and the company bought by some other group I don't see them in the Google store anymore.

Edit: also my copy of Iron Curtain: NATO�s Central Front, 1945-1989 comes in tomorrow; may post unboxing photos. Unfortunately I will probably have to play it solitaire style...

# ? Oct 27, 2023 00:43

mcclay: Jul 8, 2013; Oh dear oh gosh oh darn; Soiled Meat

What was the actual different in RL between Rifle Divisions, Rifle Corps and Guard Corps? More dudes? Better training? More mechanized poo poo?

# ? Oct 27, 2023 00:47

FirstnameLastname: Jul 10, 2022

corps is multiple divisions

# ? Oct 27, 2023 00:51

BadOptics: Sep 11, 2012

mcclay posted:

What was the actual different in RL between Rifle Divisions, Rifle Corps and Guard Corps? More dudes? Better training? More mechanized poo poo?

Guards would have better equipment and probably better trained/experienced men. I believe though in "When Titans Clashed" the units on the Southern portion of the front had more experience/success than the northern/Leningrad front. As for Corps vs Division, if Wikipedia is right (lol) corps were just larger units made up of multiple divisions which eventually went away as the Red Army gained more experienced combat commanders.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifle_corps_(Soviet_Union)

# ? Oct 27, 2023 00:54

Minenfeld!: Aug 21, 2012

StashAugustine posted:

Anyone have good recs for phone grog war games?

I like the pixel soldier games for Android. Though I suppose they're kinda grog-lite.

# ? Oct 27, 2023 03:07

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

Per Glantz, after the Red Army was shattered in 1941, they started using smaller formations due to the shortage of officers and heavy weapons. They also fed them piecemeal into ongoing battles to stem the tide. This is when they started using Tank Brigades as opposed to Corps, for instance.

As they rebuilt in 1943, they were able to outfit Rifle Corps again, as well as furnish them with the required artillery, signals, engineering assets etc. and have enough officers to lead and staff them.

A rule of thumb for the Red Army in WW2 is that they are roughly the size and have the capabilities of a Western Allied formation the next step down. A Soviet Corps would have about 14k men, and in terms of fire support and other supporting assets, would be on par with a British Infantry Division. This is also because they typically preferred to raise new units rather than replace losses in existing ones, and during operations would swap units out of the line when they were fought out rather than reinforcing in place. That's a long way of saying they were always, always understrength, especially as they had an infantry replacement problem after early 1943, much like the Western Allies did after the winter of 1944.

That last bit is particularly important because contrary to the human waves thing, the Soviets were hard up for infantry through the back half of the war, and on the drive to Berlin were not eager to press attacks, using tanks and artillery to shoot the Germans off terrain. Like the Western Allies, they got a shot in the arm liberating Poland and Belorussia, with the LWP able to take on fresh soldiers once they entered Poland, the same way the Free French, Dutch and Belgians were for the Allies. At the same time, like in France, Belgium and the Netherlands, liberating Belorussia created tension within the Red Army as the liberated partisans were both an attractive source of manpower, and resented being conscripted. They did not take easily to being uniformed soldiers and believed that their war was over.

All of this to say, on the tactical level, Red Army formations in 1944-45 typically were far more up to strength in support weapons than soldiers, and so blazed away with mortars and machine-guns while their rifle platoons might be missing an entire section, companies a platoon, battalions a company and so on.

Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 03:20 on Oct 27, 2023

# ? Oct 27, 2023 03:07

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

mcclay posted:

What was the actual different in RL between Rifle Divisions, Rifle Corps and Guard Corps? More dudes? Better training? More mechanized poo poo?

a division is a formation of approximately 10,000 men

a corps is composed of three divisions (or, again approximately, 30,000 men)

in wargame terms, for the Axis, three divisions would operate as separate and independent units on the map, with the Corps as a headquarters unit; then three Corps would report to an Army headquarters

the Soviets were operating under a similar model in 1941, but as FF said, the losses in the immediate aftermath of Barbarossa meant that they didn't have nearly enough officers to maintain this model, and so they eliminated the Corps level of organization entirely, and divisions would report directly to an Army HQ (that is, nine divisions to an Army)

once the Soviets were rebuilding their organization, they were able to create Rifle Corps, but in wargame terms, a Soviet Rifle Corps is a single unit, with all of the concentrated firepower implied in "we put three divisions worth of men and equipment into a single chit"

___

"Guards" is a designation assigned to a unit that has performed in an exemplary manner as an honorific. Materially speaking, Guards units were more lavishly equipped, and had a greater share of combat veterans, and were used as especially powerful formations, and wargames tend to confer combat power bonuses to them as a result (i.e., an "elite" unit with better stats)

# ? Oct 27, 2023 03:41

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

Frosted Flake posted:

> President of Russia Vladimir Putin congratulated officers and personnel of the 126th Separate Guards Coastal Defence Brigade and the 155th Separate Guards Marine Brigade on receiving the honorary title of Guards.

I realize Coastal Defence is a more complicated issue in the AFRF, but I�m wondering how they saw enough action in the conflict to be made Guards? Mariupol?

quote:

The Red Star newspaper reports that under the command of Lieutenant Colonel Andranik Gasparyan, the brigade acted skillfully and decisively. During the defense of the crossing in the Kherson region, the brigade's units repelled nine attacks and destroyed 23 units of the enemy's military equipment.

"During the capture of the crossing, a T-72B3 tank under the command of the commander of the tank company of the detachment, Senior Lieutenant Anton Starostin, was among the first to break into the bridge and ensured the approach of the main forces to hold the area of the dam across the North Crimean Canal," the paper said.

The high title of Hero of Russia was also deservedly conferred on another tanker, Senior Sergeant Yuri Nimchenko of the contract service. Under his command, the T-72B3, repelling a night counterattack by the enemy, during 40 minutes of combat, hit six tanks and three BTR-80s, and destroyed a significant number of infantry.

So a lot of this seems maybe a bit exagerated, but at least the reports make it sound like the 126th were leading the spearhead from Crimea on the southern front in Ukraine and made two river crossings.

Dunno what happened with the 155th, but they're in the news a lot because they were at Ugledar.

Lostconfused has issued a correction as of 04:12 on Oct 27, 2023

# ? Oct 27, 2023 04:02

KomradeX: Oct 29, 2011

I got into the ___Leader series this year and why they seemed slightly more openly reactionary than the GMT games I'm used to. That they have an Israeli Defnese Leader or whatever has maybe colored my opinion on that

# ? Oct 27, 2023 05:22

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

https://www.reddit.com/r/CitiesSkylines/comments/17had80/all_resource_management_in_the_game_is_a_deception/

quote:

TLDR: If you expect the in-game economy simulation to include features like supply chains, exports, and imports of goods, and resource processing, it doesn't. Here are the main issues:

First Part: Your city doesn't generate a 'demand' for goods. When you build a cargo terminal, the assigned ships or trains will deliver ALL resources in the game to it, even garbage. They deliver an amount equal to (terminal storage)/70 of one of the resources at a time. A cargo port has 15,500 storage capacity, so you will see ships carrying 222 metal ore, 222 food, and so on.

These deliveries occur even if your city has no commercial and/or industrial zones.

Second Part: Shops in commercial zones and industrial facilities will never use these resources. I tested this by placing a cargo port, cutting all highway connections in the city, deleting all industrial zones, and creating new commercial zones near the port. Commercial buildings spawn with a certain amount of goods to operate with, according to their type. You can see this by clicking on a delivery truck and checking its owner. There's an invisible warehouse inside every commercial or industrial building.

I waited until their storages depleted (without any interaction from customers btw), and the port's storage filled with goods (222 food, 222 plastics, etc).

So, I had commercial zones with no goods, no highway connections, and a port full of goods. Do the shops send their trucks to pick up goods from the port? No, they just stand without goods to sell but still generate income and pay taxes! They won't go bankrupt.

Third Part: You already know that exports are broken, but I tried to test it. I placed a train cargo hub near a forestry industry and cut all highway connections. I had over 700 tons of surplus wood and no industry to process it. Check this gif to see what happens next.

Why don't they deliver wood to the terminal? Because they can deliver wood ONLY to logs storage, which can randomly appear in an industrial zone. If there are no storages, the trucks will simply disappear, even if they could export wood logs. So, if you have no logs storage in your city, all your timber factories will buy logs from the outside.

But maybe they export logs by teleporting them? Nope. I forced one of the invisible forestry storages to have 65.9 out of 60 tons of logs, and they remained at 65.9.

To summarize:

Shops and factories don't need goods/resources to generate income.

You can't import goods by trains or ships to be used by shops or factories. They will stay in the terminal storage indefinitely.

You can't export anything.

This post may seem chaotic because I'm frustrated that this game offers nothing more than the ability to place houses everywhere. My apologies.

The last screenshot of my city.

# ? Oct 27, 2023 05:28

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

fifth scenario of Kursk done; Rumyantsev - with all objectives achieved

SS Das Reich made another appearance on this go-round, crushed under the treads of three Tank Corps. SS Wiking decided to fortify itself inside Kharkov, so I bypassed the city and let it wither on the vine.

I finished the scenario in a little over half the allotted turn limit, 7 out of 12 turns, but it was actually an hour of gameplay, but you don't notice it from how engrossed you are in picking over the various moves.

# ? Oct 27, 2023 07:01

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

Desert Rats is still my favourite but this is really, really, good.

# ? Oct 27, 2023 14:32

StashAugustine: Mar 24, 2013; Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

Extremely niche history question for UoC (probably FF can answer): why does artillery not work in the specific context of defender being in a forest and being entrenched?

# ? Oct 27, 2023 15:17

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

StashAugustine posted:

Extremely niche history question for UoC (probably FF can answer): why does artillery not work in the specific context of defender being in a forest and being entrenched?

Because it's hard-to-impossible to observe the fall of shot in a forest, tree trunks, stumps, and felled trees absorb fragments, and projectiles will burst prematurely when they impact the canopy or trunks. If you think about how trenches and dugouts are improved by adding even a few layers of thick logs, a forrest affords layers of partial protection in all directions. Shells practically have to burst right on top of something for the fragments to have any effect, and as I said, particularly in summer, you can't actually see what you're shooting at.

Historically, woods clearing is one of the most difficult operations at all tactical levels. Starting a forest fire is only a partial solution, because just like in urban terrain, if you don't seize the position when it's temporarily vacated due to the fire, it's even harder to clear out afterwards. Otherwise, you have to try to flatten the woods which takes weeks of sustained artillery operations and creates - if thing's weren't bad enough - even more defensible terrain.

# ? Oct 27, 2023 15:26

StashAugustine: Mar 24, 2013; Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

Thanks. I remembered a lot of talk from veterans of the Bulge that artillery in forests caused a lot of fragmentation due to hitting the trees, but yeah being terrifying when directly under it doesn't always translate to being effective overall (see also poison gas). I guess that's why a unit moving into the forest is still vulnerable (though having a defensive shift and protected from armor) but once entrenched its much harder to dig them out

# ? Oct 27, 2023 15:31

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

StashAugustine posted:

Thanks. I remembered a lot of talk from veterans of the Bulge that artillery in forests caused a lot of fragmentation due to hitting the trees, but yeah being terrifying when directly under it doesn't always translate to being effective overall (see also poison gas). I guess that's why a unit moving into the forest is still vulnerable (though having a defensive shift and protected from armor) but once entrenched its much harder to dig them out

Tree bursts are dangerous, and veterans remember them vividly, but a lot of the danger, just like with shellbursts, comes from not being dug in. Also in that instance, the wood was frozen which for a bunch of botany reasons that are unknown to me makes a difference. Frozen ground is much harder to dig shell scrapes, foxholes and trenches in too, so in that instance the season was working against them.

If you consider the mountains of shells Bradley and Patton fired at Germans in the forests of Alsace-Lorraine and the German frontier that autumn, to very little effect, famously in the Hurtgen, you can see how much cover forests can provide.

# ? Oct 27, 2023 15:43

Danann: Aug 4, 2013

Frosted Flake posted:

Dishonor Before Death: Those Black SS Pieces

...

So black-and-white counters added nothing to your color costs, and that explains why the scheme was used at all. But how it became associated with the Waffen SS, Germany's criminal gang of Nazi enforcers, is much less clear. It probably has some psychological underpinning of black = evil, but by the time I was playing wargames in high school, the association was definitely very strong that the black units were the SS. And in most of those games, there was no particular reason for the SS to have its own color scheme. But they did anyway.

Blue and yellow colors are going to be the biggest expense for wargamers of the rules based international order eh.

# ? Oct 27, 2023 15:55

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

Danann posted:

Blue and yellow colors are going to be the biggest expense for wargamers of the rules based international order eh.

For sure.

# ? Oct 27, 2023 17:16

StashAugustine: Mar 24, 2013; Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

This is a weird interface issue, but im UoC2 when you earn a card with a full hand the game prompts you to take the reward, but I cannot figure out where that is

# ? Oct 28, 2023 18:37

BearsBearsBears: Aug 4, 2022

Lum_ posted:

also, wargaming in general has always had an ahistorical hardon for the SS as "elite troops in cool black uniforms, so let's make sure their counters are BLACK and give them HIGH NUMBERS"

in reality, the SS was never an elite force, its only advantages were two: they would be oversupplied with the best equipment because himmler played political games with procurement, and SS troops wouldn't surrender as often because they knew they'd be accountable for their many and copious warcrimes.

during the invasion of Poland the SS' first divisional combat outing was when they chased a Polish infantry division into the town of Pabaniece. They had the typical Nazi sneering dismissal of inferior slavs and assumed it would be an easy cleanup job. The Poles baited them into an encirclement and proceeded to kick their teeth in; the regular army had to send a few divisions to rescue them from their idiocy. After the invasion the Army tried to use the battle of Pabianece as justification for taking the SS' toys away, but Hitler overruled them.

any wargame that rates SS units as "better" for any reason other than having more tanks that day is delusional.

I think you could also justify better morale due to their fanaticism/upcoming warcrime executions. For the few wargames that simulate internal politics you could also give them a political power bonus. They also did get priority on non-tank weaponry and equipment as well.

The SS were also terrible at the boring bureaucratic parts of war. If I recall correctly, one of the (many) reasons that the the Waffen-SS lost at the Battle of the Bulge was that they didn't have enough traffic cops and their tanks got caught in a terrible traffic snarl. So better equipment, but often worse at actually using it.

Edit: There were also vast differences between the "elite" German Waffen-SS units and the foreign ones that were basically Auxilia units that mostly specialized in warcrimes/anti-partisan operations. Probably best to separate those two types in any wargames that feature both.

BearsBearsBears has issued a correction as of 19:13 on Oct 28, 2023

# ? Oct 28, 2023 19:00

V. Illych L.: Apr 11, 2008; ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

StashAugustine posted:

This is a weird interface issue, but im UoC2 when you earn a card with a full hand the game prompts you to take the reward, but I cannot figure out where that is

you have to make space on your hand and then you click the little message saying "claim reward"

it's the single weirdest thing in an otherwise pretty well designed interface

# ? Oct 28, 2023 19:17

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

BearsBearsBears posted:

The SS were also terrible at the boring bureaucratic parts of war. If I recall correctly, one of the (many) reasons that the the Waffen-SS lost at the Battle of the Bulge was that they didn't have enough traffic cops and their tanks got caught in a terrible traffic snarl. So better equipment, but often worse at actually using it.

They didn�t have enough staff (because everyone wanted to be commanding in the field, and they didn�t really have the institutions to train them) so they designated staging areas for tens of thousands of men that had like two hardtop roads, in Belgium, in the winter.

As for why the SS military police were not good at directing traffic, you can guess what they had spent the wars years doing up to that point.

I think it was Gradenko who pointed out that they planned on the assumption that there would be no Allied interdiction or CAS, �due to weather�, because the magical realism of the plan was not sustainable otherwise, but they didn�t actually plan with a meteorological section on their staff.

So, you know, as soon as the clouds broke, RIP Bozos.

Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 19:42 on Oct 28, 2023

# ? Oct 28, 2023 19:37

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Don't forget though that these absolute loser clowns which had been all but fought out and whose entire societal and industrial support structure was on its last legs still managed to achieve strategic surprise and smash a bunch of american infantry divisions. Should be something to be really goddamn embarrassed about.

# ? Oct 28, 2023 19:47

StashAugustine: Mar 24, 2013; Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

What was the intelligence failure at the Bulge anyway? I understand the general take in Market Garden was incredibly overconfident planning, but idk why they missed the Ardennes offensive

# ? Oct 28, 2023 22:01

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

StashAugustine posted:

What was the intelligence failure at the Bulge anyway? I understand the general take in Market Garden was incredibly overconfident planning, but idk why they missed the Ardennes offensive

From a photo recon point of view Germans carried out all of their marches to the assembly areas by night, the assembly areas were all well camouflaged in forested terrain. It was also overcast most of the time.

For once, the Germans had great signals discipline and also set up dummy headquarters that spoofed radio traffic. They also faked road and rail traffic to those fake headquarters, unloading and moving cargo to their real supply points by night.

The Americans were using the Ardennes for R&R and weren't too aggressive in their patrolling, and didn't patrol to the depth of the German assembly areas anyway, so there was no practical way to detect the presence of new formations in the area.

So, not only were German camouflage and deception efforts usually good (for them), the Allies were not particularly interested in that area (no Allied offensive was planned on that axis) and so their intelligence gathering efforts were routine.

# ? Oct 28, 2023 22:06

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

What I don't get is when I look at the OOB and a deployment map for the 16th covering not just the attacked area but the whole front, ie. this one: https://www.loc.gov/resource/g5701s.ict21195/?r=0.473%2C0.054%2C0.761%2C0.448%2C0&st=image

Why the absolute gently caress is the density of divisions so low right smack in the middle of your line? Like compare the sector of the VIII (106th down to 4th) with everything to it's north and south.

And then on top of that you have what FF is saying about that the guys who were in what was by *far* the thinnest portion of the line also felt like they didn't really need to take defending that line all too seriously. It all reeks of massive failure to me.

# ? Oct 28, 2023 22:21

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

Orange Devil posted:

What I don't get is when I look at the OOB and a deployment map for the 16th covering not just the attacked area but the whole front, ie. this one: https://www.loc.gov/resource/g5701s.ict21195/?r=0.473%2C0.054%2C0.761%2C0.448%2C0&st=image

Why the absolute gently caress is the density of divisions so low right smack in the middle of your line? Like compare the sector of the VIII (106th down to 4th) with everything to it's north and south.

And then on top of that you have what FF is saying about that the guys who were in what was by *far* the thinnest portion of the line also felt like they didn't really need to take defending that line all too seriously. It all reeks of massive failure to me.

I found a defence journal article about it, The Ardennes Campaign: The Impact of Intelligence which includes something that floored me:

"Then we found out the Germans were issuing very strict orders on saving gasoline. We interpreted that to mean that they were about to run out of gasoline. The point was that it was a part of a strict conservation program to make sure there was enough gasoline for the attack. But again we were standing these things on their head because the theory was that if an attack was imminent Ultra would have told us."

# ? Oct 28, 2023 22:39

StashAugustine: Mar 24, 2013; Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

I really want someone to do a WW2 strategic/operational game where you only play as the intelligence agencies and the actual combat is largely out of your control

# ? Oct 28, 2023 22:45

The Chad Jihad: Feb 24, 2007

I need to track down that battle of the bulge book by toland again

# ? Oct 28, 2023 23:25

Malleum: Aug 16, 2014; Am I the one at fault? What about me is wrong?; Buglord

StashAugustine posted:

I really want someone to do a WW2 strategic/operational game where you only play as the intelligence agencies and the actual combat is largely out of your control

its a few years too late for ww2 but
https://store.steampowered.com/app/871530/Radio_Commander/

an rts where your only interface is a radio and a map, and you have to interpret the movement of your guys and the enemy by whatever some panicked corporal is yelling at you over the horn

# ? Oct 28, 2023 23:30

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Frosted Flake posted:

I found a defence journal article about it, The Ardennes Campaign: The Impact of Intelligence which includes something that floored me:

"Then we found out the Germans were issuing very strict orders on saving gasoline. We interpreted that to mean that they were about to run out of gasoline. The point was that it was a part of a strict conservation program to make sure there was enough gasoline for the attack. But again we were standing these things on their head because the theory was that if an attack was imminent Ultra would have told us."

Lol holy poo poo

The ~~Russians~~ Germans are about to run out of ~~ammo~~ gas

# ? Oct 28, 2023 23:41

Endman: May 18, 2010; That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die

That�s very funny given that just a couple of years earlier in Africa the British were paranoid that relying too heavily on Ultra would give the game away

# ? Oct 29, 2023 00:07

skooma512: Feb 8, 2012; You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.

Malleum posted:

its a few years too late for ww2 but
https://store.steampowered.com/app/871530/Radio_Commander/

an rts where your only interface is a radio and a map, and you have to interpret the movement of your guys and the enemy by whatever some panicked corporal is yelling at you over the horn

They made a sequel in WW2, specifically one Canadian unit in France after the invasion.

# ? Oct 29, 2023 00:10

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# ? May 29, 2024 13:58

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Interpreting an early warning about an attack as a reason you have nothing to worry about and the other side can�t do anything sure is something.

# ? Oct 29, 2023 07:19

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > Strategy & Wargames - middlebrow autodidact "history buffs" who yearn to pull levers

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