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Old World is interesting. I like the dynasty mechanics and the narratives it creates. But I find the whole experience falls apart by turn 80-100 or so in singleplayer. On moderate difficulties, the AI starts with more cities, which puts them unimpeachably far ahead. This also means they get a big military quickly and then spend all their time cleaning out tribals, so the tribal mechanic basically gets killed by the ai quickstart before it amounts to anything. Fortunately (?) the AI is trash at building cities, so the player will inevitably catch up, at which point you probably go fight a war because you're sick of paying off the AIs. During the war you get to deal with units zooming in from outside the fog of war and (seemingly) across half the map just to gank ur dudes as an unfortunate downside of the orders system. It does make the AI moderately more effective than usual for civ-likes, but can still usually be handled by a 4x veteran. After you win that war you might as well quit because there won't be any challenge left. I wouldn't qualify it as low micro. Managing your dynasty, family politics, and city optimization takes a decent degree of mental effort and time, especially for a new player. TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Oct 26, 2023 |
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Oct 26, 2023 22:32
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:After you win that war you might as well quit because there won't be any challenge left. ah, a proper 4x game
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Oct 26, 2023 22:35
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Joe Chill posted:Checkout youTuber Sullla and his plays of MOO1. Thank you for this recommendation btw. I watched his intro video and he explains the game really well. It was a nice accompaniment to this review of Remnants of the Precursors on explorminate, which i haven't read in full yet but which also covers the basic themes of MOO1: https://explorminate.co/remnants-of-the-precursors-review/ I don't think I could possibly get into MOO1 with its dated AI and graphics but I'm now having a bit of fun in RotP.
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Oct 26, 2023 22:38
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Btw, I recently discovered explorminate has a rather comprehensive database of 4x games, thorough enough to include 4x-alikes and games that really stretch the 4x definition. I'm working my way through the links to pick out any gems i might want to try (or watch on youtube) - worth a look if you're in the mood to try something new.
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Oct 26, 2023 22:44
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Tree Bucket posted:e: are there any space 4x games where the bird-people suck at space combat? That'd be a fun twist. There was a game or lovely space opera where the bird people couldn't handle the acceleration of other races and so were at a disadvantage but i can't think of what one now.
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Oct 26, 2023 23:44
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Lichtenstein posted:Old World is best in class when it comes to 4X games, but I wouldn't exactly call it low micro. I mean it sure doesn't have poo poo like old civ REX with lovely little towns planted every three hexes, but there's a lot going on. It's a very dense game with some real decision fatigue that wants you to throw fairly big carpets of doom into the meatgrinder.
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Oct 27, 2023 00:07
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In The Last Federation the bird people are the pacifist communal race that's bad at space combat and ground combat but good at planetary bombardment as suicide bombers.
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Oct 27, 2023 00:12
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Iirc in Sword of the stars the bird people were really advanced but most of your pops had to be in space stations because gravity?
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Oct 27, 2023 01:43
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BadOptics posted:Iirc in Sword of the stars the bird people were really advanced but most of your pops had to be in space stations because gravity? Sword of the stars was great because it appealed to my drive to go really slow in huge fleets and build stargates
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Oct 27, 2023 02:17
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It was a culture thing, men past a certain age are all supposed to be spacers culturally and all have to be in orbit or in ships, children and women are allowed on ships on occasion but are mostly meant to be limited to planet surfaces, the sexual dimorphism present with the Morrigi is mostly based on growing up in microgravity vs full gravity, also their entire culture had a very big shitfit when the evil space dolphins, morally equivalent to the regular perfect and blissful dolphins, used psychic powers in space to gently caress the warships crewed by Morrigi men, the Eternal Shame Of The People and Fleet is that warships crewed by women, who have an innate psychic defence field they can activate, managed to give the dolphins a drubbing, and then the entire Morrigi society slipped into rabid reactionary fascism at this violation of norms. They still trade, though, because money is nice to have.
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Oct 27, 2023 02:19
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Jarvisi posted:Sword of the stars was great because it appealed to my drive to go really slow in huge fleets and build stargates Hello Hiver buddy!
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Oct 27, 2023 02:20
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It appealed to my disgust at the idea of having to manually build buildings on planets and also enabled my dolphin murder addiction. Also I liked the Morrigi ship designs, they had semi sane turret and point defence placement.
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Oct 27, 2023 02:23
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Did anyone ever play that SotS dungeon crawler/rogue like? I have it but never got around to trying it.
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Oct 27, 2023 02:39
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What was the name of that HoMM-like that came out a few months ago, where you're a wizard in a wizard tower and you have to race against other wizard dudes to build up your wizard poo poo? All I remember was a) it was pretty fun, b) it was surprisingly hard, c) it was 7gb-ish on disk.
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Oct 27, 2023 03:06
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Spellforce: Conquest of Eo
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Oct 27, 2023 03:14
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BadOptics posted:Did anyone ever play that SotS dungeon crawler/rogue like? I have it but never got around to trying it. It was okay. That's all I've heard about it. Man they could have done so much with the sequel
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Oct 27, 2023 03:36
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Jarvisi posted:Man they could have done so much with the sequel Making a game that actually worked, for one.
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Oct 27, 2023 03:54
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BadOptics posted:Did anyone ever play that SotS dungeon crawler/rogue like? I have it but never got around to trying it. Some people were a big fan of it. Myself and most of the roguelike thread were not. There's a lot you can say about it, but what comes to mind about 8 years after I last touched it? A game of attrition. Equipment has durability, every skill check is a die roll, somewhat awkward skill training system, some doors (with an initially unknown marking) can destroy a random item, crafting was unappealing. I'm used to scarcity of ammo/food in roguelikes but wasn't a fan of it's implementation here. A lot of the recipes were metaknowledge/unlocks. It leans towards the slow death spiral more than the sudden splat. Don't discount it based on my take, however. Try to find a positive opinion as counterbalance. Maybe watch an old VOD uploaded to YouTube by TorNis if you want to see someone good at and enjoying the game. IIRC the roguelike thread was really getting tired of item destruction at that time - DCSS was still popular, and IIRC still had a strong item destruction component that was removed maybe a year or later. The biggest caveat is that my take is all first impressions, with very casual revisit later. Four DLCs and a few years of post release support may have changed things significantly, or it might just be that the attrition doesn't bother you as much.
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Oct 27, 2023 04:18
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While we're talking historical 4X, has anyone tried out Ozymandias? https://store.steampowered.com/app/1768280/Ozymandias_Bronze_Age_Empire_Sim/ I was reviewing my backlog of humble choice options and nabbed it, but haven't had a chance to try it yet
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Oct 27, 2023 04:22
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toasterwarrior posted:Spellforce: Conquest of Eo That's the one!! Thanks a ton 
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Oct 27, 2023 08:28
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Azhais posted:While we're talking historical 4X, has anyone tried out Ozymandias? I refunded it after two hours, felt more like a puzzle game.
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Oct 27, 2023 08:35
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Azhais posted:While we're talking historical 4X, has anyone tried out Ozymandias? It's not bad, but... really feels like a tabletop eurogame, rather than a 4X. Complete with fixed starting setups to crack like a puzzle.
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Oct 27, 2023 09:09
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also I realize it's far afield from 4xs, but I'd heartily recommend checking out Against the Storm if you haven't heard of it and you're into city builders at all - it does some really unique things that scratch a lot of the itches I had for the 4x genre basically condensing down the interesting early game part where you're constantly making decisions that matter, and just when you're about to hit that point where the game goes on autopilot, everything resets and you go again with a new settlement
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Oct 27, 2023 11:04
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victrix posted:also I realize it's far afield from 4xs, but I'd heartily recommend checking out Against the Storm if you haven't heard of it and you're into city builders at all - it does some really unique things that scratch a lot of the itches I had for the 4x genre I would argue against the storm covers at least 3 of the 4 x, the only one not covered would be exterminate as the game lacks a military system, but the exploring of the forest and the glades, the exploitation of the resources you find inside and the expansion of your settlement are all in there.
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Oct 27, 2023 13:15
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no one likes the exterminate phase beyond the start of it anyways, that's like 90% of the cleanup make-work
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Oct 27, 2023 15:15
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LordSloth posted:somewhat awkward skill training system,
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Oct 27, 2023 16:10
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papasyhotcakes posted:I would argue against the storm covers at least 3 of the 4 x, the only one not covered would be exterminate as the game lacks a military system, but the exploring of the forest and the glades, the exploitation of the resources you find inside and the expansion of your settlement are all in there. If we can suddenly recommend our favorite three x games (not to be confused with triple x) I would highly recommend Terraformers, which is a really addictive game about terraforming Mars (not to be confused with any board games that cover this concept) Terraformers might be my current game of the year. Veryslightlymad fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Oct 27, 2023 |
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Oct 27, 2023 16:27
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X4 is a good 4X game, if not obvious.
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Oct 27, 2023 21:31
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Mokotow posted:X4 is a good 4X game, if not obvious. I've been stuck in an infinite loop on X4 for like a year, where I go "This is incredibly overwhelming," spend 45 minutes on the controls tutorial, go "That was a lot, I wanna take a break before I start a campaign," then like six months later I go "...gently caress, I forgot everything I learned in the tutorial and also to start a game."
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Oct 28, 2023 08:20
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Omi no Kami posted:I've been stuck in an infinite loop on X4 for like a year, where I go "This is incredibly overwhelming," spend 45 minutes on the controls tutorial, go "That was a lot, I wanna take a break before I start a campaign," then like six months later I go "...gently caress, I forgot everything I learned in the tutorial and also to start a game." ... Are you me?
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Oct 28, 2023 11:29
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distortion park posted:I didn't know about that orders system in Old World, sounds like a really smart setup The order system is easily the best big innovation in 4x design since the 90s.
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Oct 28, 2023 12:40
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Orange Devil posted:The order system is easily the best big innovation in 4x design since the 90s. I'd like to see it in a game that isn't half crusader kings (not an indictment, just not my jam)
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Oct 28, 2023 13:03
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Personally I like the addition of CK-eque characters the most. Not on its own, mind you - it sure isn't Crusader Kings and you shouldn't expect it to carry the name on the strength of procgen narratives alone. But I think it was incredibly smart to see it as a really useful tool to shore up some gaps the genre has always had. It's a single, universal mechanic that does so much. There's actual internal politics at last! There's something going on in AI diplomacy other than cheesing trade screens to get +0.001 balance on whatever you want! There's room for semi-autonomous entities (religion) without wresting control away from the player! It just fills so many gaps.
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Oct 28, 2023 13:05
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Omi no Kami posted:I've been stuck in an infinite loop on X4 for like a year, where I go "This is incredibly overwhelming," spend 45 minutes on the controls tutorial, go "That was a lot, I wanna take a break before I start a campaign," then like six months later I go "...gently caress, I forgot everything I learned in the tutorial and also to start a game." Lol this is me with DCS.
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Oct 28, 2023 13:35
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Lichtenstein posted:Personally I like the addition of CK-eque characters the most. I agree with all of this and still dislike it - the cognitive load in Old World is really high. Again, not an indictment, just very specifically not my jam  For the type of player who absorbs family tree mechanics at a glance it's probably a lot of fun to tinker with, but that's not me.
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Oct 28, 2023 13:36
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:no one likes the exterminate phase beyond the start of it anyways, that's like 90% of the cleanup make-work True, that's why alternate victory conditions became a thing. Even beyond that, games like Stellaris award you point victories even if you're really determined to roleplay Tyranids. (In Space Empires V for an older example, you can graciously allow the AI to completely surrender, which it will do if it feels it's too weak to do anything anymore.)
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Oct 28, 2023 13:42
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Libluini posted:True, that's why alternate victory conditions became a thing. Even beyond that, games like Stellaris award you point victories even if you're really determined to roleplay Tyranids. (In Space Empires V for an older example, you can graciously allow the AI to completely surrender, which it will do if it feels it's too weak to do anything anymore.) Of course, sometimes you get self-sabotaging players that just turn off the alternate victory conditions... (Similar to the players that always choose the largest allowed map size and number of opponents, even when the game is better with a smaller scale)
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Oct 28, 2023 18:03
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Given the option, I turn off all victory conditions and just sandbox until I get bored. There’s nothing lamer than a game suddenly ending with an arbitrary points victory.
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Oct 28, 2023 18:07
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chglcu posted:Given the option, I turn off all victory conditions and just sandbox until I get bored. There’s nothing lamer than a game suddenly ending with an arbitrary points victory. It can be a lot of fun to win an eco victory or science victory narrowly by burning down your empire in the process. I'm a fairly big fan of euro board games though, so that's partially to blame.
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Oct 28, 2023 18:11
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On indie, doomed dev hell of "why the hell did I make a MOO clone when it's a saturated nightmare market:" https://store.steampowered.com/app/437440/Lord_of_Rigel/ Well we did just get another patch in with a lot of the stuff people had been asking for- namely an overhaul on AI aggression and UI skin color options. Plugging away on the SoTS like grand menaces, research victory, refitting, and likely adding in a more HOI-style leader system. The note about largest map scales even when a game plays better on smaller maps is definitely true. Finding that 128 stars for a game like this is really the best paced and the whole 512, 1024 thing really is a novelty and isn't honestly as fun. It's also interesting seeing people having issues with an unbalanced economy when they're in an end game and converted every planet into Dyson Spheres, like that that point you should be able to win whenever you want so of course your income is out of control. Even end game monster threats are hard to balance when that type of economy exists. ...and the "you built a giant megastructure so you get a tiny +0.001" bonus was never going to be the case.
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Oct 28, 2023 18:25
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