NFC East 2023: Everyone's a Contender* (No, not really New York)

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Football Funhouse > NFC East 2023: Everyone's a Contender* (No, not really New York)

«‹›228 »

Biggest disappointment of 2023?
	The Dallas Cowboys (gently caress 'em)
	The New York Giants
	The Philadephia Eagles
	The Washington Washingtons
	Myself for watching NFC East Clownball

[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

View Results

Alfred P. Pseudonym: May 29, 2006; And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss goes 8-8

I guess my main opinion is that Eli was mediocre and belongs nowhere near the Hall of Fame.

# ? Oct 27, 2023 16:33

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 24, 2024 14:19

Diqnol: May 10, 2010

blarzgh posted:

A) 13-3 record - 488 passing attempts, 63.7% completion percentage, for 3565, with 19 touchdowns and 12 interceptions

B) 13-3 record - 476 passing attempts, 69.1% completion percentage, for 3978, with 27 touchdowns and 13 interceptions

Try and guess:
- The year
- The QB

A) is Joe Montana's 1981 ~~MVP season~~he finished 2nd in MVP voting;
B) is Jimmy Garoppolo's 2019 season, where he finished 12th in passing, and received zero MVP votes.

My guess is that neither of these QBs is the worst modern HoF QB by statistics. What do I win?

# ? Oct 27, 2023 16:34

Febreeze: Oct 24, 2011; I want to care, butt I dont

Alfred P. Pseudonym posted:

I guess my main opinion is that Eli was mediocre and belongs nowhere near the Hall of Fame.

My opinion is that the Cowboys belong nowhere near a super bowl

Eli reaching the Hall of Fame is going to be the 9/11 for advanced stats spreadsheet dorks and I'm so here for it

# ? Oct 27, 2023 16:35

blarzgh: Apr 14, 2009; SNITCHIN' RANDY; Grimey Drawer

Heres another good one:

A) 11-5 record - 596 passing attempts, 68.8% completion percentage, for 4,449 yards, with 37 touchdowns and 10 interceptions

B) 11-5 record - 570 passing attempts, 63.0% completion percentage, for 4,413 yards, with 38 touchdowns and 13 interceptions

B) Brett Favre's 1998 MVP season;
A) is Dak Prescott's 2021 season.

# ? Oct 27, 2023 16:38

Cartoon Man: Jan 31, 2004

I swear this thread does nothing but cycle discussion about the same three quarterbacks every other week. Romo, Eli, and Troy. Get some new material!

# ? Oct 27, 2023 16:38

fartknocker: Oct 28, 2012; Damn it, this always happens. I think I'm gonna score, and then I never score. It's not fair.; Wedge Regret

blarzgh posted:

I just saw that and fixed

It�s also worth noting him finishing 2nd in MVP that year requires some historic context, and the vote wasn�t that close. The 49ers had the best record in the NFL running an innovative offense that a large part of the league and fans fully didn�t understand, thinking it was a gimmick that would fail at any time. Montana finished second with 15 votes, but Anderson got 46, coincidentally running a similar offense.

# ? Oct 27, 2023 16:39

blarzgh: Apr 14, 2009; SNITCHIN' RANDY; Grimey Drawer

Cartoon Man posted:

I swear this thread does nothing but cycle discussion about the same three quarterbacks every other week. Romo, Eli, and Troy. Get some new material!

# ? Oct 27, 2023 16:39

blarzgh: Apr 14, 2009; SNITCHIN' RANDY; Grimey Drawer

fartknocker posted:

It�s also worth noting him finishing 2nd in MVP that year requires some historic context, and the vote wasn�t that close. The 49ers had the best record in the NFL running an innovative offense that a large part of the league and fans fully didn�t understand, thinking it was a gimmick that would fail at any time. Montana finished second with 15 votes, but Anderson got 46, coincidentally running a similar offense.

"requires context" is the point though.

# ? Oct 27, 2023 16:40

Diqnol: May 10, 2010

I'm just glad me and the Cowboys Stats nerd agree that Troy Aikman is the worst modern QB in the Hall of Fame. Its good to be honest about things

# ? Oct 27, 2023 16:42

fartknocker: Oct 28, 2012; Damn it, this always happens. I think I'm gonna score, and then I never score. It's not fair.; Wedge Regret

Cartoon Man posted:

I swear this thread does nothing but cycle discussion about the same three quarterbacks every other week. Romo, Eli, and Troy. Get some new material!

Throwback time: Phil Simms and Jeff Hostetler were cool.

Randall Cunningham is the best player in Tecmo Super Bowl. Yes, better than Bo.

Washington sucks.

gently caress the Cowboys.

_{_{The Cardinals also technically existed in the NFC East and are a better offense in Tecmo than Dallas or Washington}}

# ? Oct 27, 2023 16:42

Alfred P. Pseudonym: May 29, 2006; And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss goes 8-8

The best QB, without adjusting for era, is Dandy Don Meredith

# ? Oct 27, 2023 16:43

blarzgh: Apr 14, 2009; SNITCHIN' RANDY; Grimey Drawer

A) 11-5 record - 543 passing attempts, 68% completion percentage, for 4,169 yards, with 24 touchdowns and 11 interceptions

B) 12-4 record - 566 passing attempts, 67.0% completion percentage, for 4,267 yards, with 29 touchdowns and 10 interceptions

B) Peyton Manning's 2003 MVP season;
A) is Phillip River's 2020 Indianapolis Colts/retirement season.

# ? Oct 27, 2023 16:50

biceps crimes: Apr 12, 2008

Asproigerosis posted:

Eli is infinitely more legitimate for the HoF than Aaron Rodgers.

lol

# ? Oct 27, 2023 16:51

blarzgh: Apr 14, 2009; SNITCHIN' RANDY; Grimey Drawer

Diqnol posted:

I'm just glad me and the Cowboys Stats nerd agree that Troy Aikman is the worst modern QB in the Hall of Fame. Its good to be honest about things

"Modern."

My man, the 1993 superbowl win is further away from today than the Kennedy Assassination is from the 1993 superbowl

# ? Oct 27, 2023 16:52

Diqnol: May 10, 2010

blarzgh posted:

"Modern."

My man, the 1993 superbowl win is further away from today than the Kennedy Assassination is from the 1993 superbowl

My oh my, it really has been a while since you guys won one, hasn't it

# ? Oct 27, 2023 16:53

blarzgh: Apr 14, 2009; SNITCHIN' RANDY; Grimey Drawer

Diqnol posted:

My oh my, it really has been a while since you guys won one, hasn't it

yes

# ? Oct 27, 2023 16:54

Cartoon Man: Jan 31, 2004

blarzgh posted:

We only discuss real top 5 quarterbacks not fake ones.

# ? Oct 27, 2023 16:55

fartknocker: Oct 28, 2012; Damn it, this always happens. I think I'm gonna score, and then I never score. It's not fair.; Wedge Regret

I hope they never win one again

# ? Oct 27, 2023 16:55

blarzgh: Apr 14, 2009; SNITCHIN' RANDY; Grimey Drawer

fartknocker posted:

I hope they never win one again

Rude!

I, quite frankly, Hope they win one again, ANd Soon!

# ? Oct 27, 2023 16:56

Forrest on Fire: Nov 23, 2012

blarzgh posted:

"Modern."

My man, the 1993 superbowl win is further away from today than the Kennedy Assassination is from the 1993 superbowl

Three Decades of Spectacular Failure

# ? Oct 27, 2023 16:59

Diqnol: May 10, 2010

fartknocker posted:

I hope they never win one again

A blessed, evergreen post. It stands tall amongst the soil fertilized by the bodies of cowboys stats nerds, felled by the reality of the only SB winning QB of their lifetimes being the worst one of all of those in the HoF.

# ? Oct 27, 2023 17:03

Doltos: Dec 28, 2005; 🤌🤌🤌

Eli isn't better than Aaron Rodgers come on.

He was an amazing QB that was way better than his stats and was also one of the better playoff QBs of his era but he wasn't Aaron Rodgers.

# ? Oct 27, 2023 17:08

Doltos: Dec 28, 2005; 🤌🤌🤌

blarzgh posted:

A) 11-5 record - 543 passing attempts, 68% completion percentage, for 4,169 yards, with 24 touchdowns and 11 interceptions

B) 12-4 record - 566 passing attempts, 67.0% completion percentage, for 4,267 yards, with 29 touchdowns and 10 interceptions

B) Peyton Manning's 2003 MVP season;
A) is Phillip River's 2020 Indianapolis Colts/retirement season.

So in 17 years of progress in the NFL you get 5 extra TDs and 98 yards on 23 more attempts?

# ? Oct 27, 2023 17:09

CapnAndy: Feb 27, 2004; Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

I know a stat

gently caress the Cowboys and they suck, if you adjust for era they always suck, they have a Suck Over Replacement Rate of 1000%

# ? Oct 27, 2023 18:00

biceps crimes: Apr 12, 2008

The only thing wrong with the Cowboys is Jerry Jones

# ? Oct 27, 2023 18:18

Ayudo: Mar 30, 2006

biceps crimes posted:

The only thing wrong with the Cowboys is Jerry Jones

# ? Oct 27, 2023 18:20

Forrest on Fire: Nov 23, 2012

biceps crimes posted:

The only thing wrong with the Cowboys is Jerry Jones

Counterpoint: gently caress The Cowboys

# ? Oct 27, 2023 18:20

Shinjobi: Jul 10, 2008; Gravy Boat 2k

Doltos posted:

Eli isn't better than Aaron Rodgers come on.

He was an amazing QB that was way better than his stats and was also one of the better playoff QBs of his era but he wasn't Aaron Rodgers.

Nope sorry if Rodgers was better than Eli then maybe he'd have beaten up more than the Cowboys in the playoffs

# ? Oct 27, 2023 18:22

fartknocker: Oct 28, 2012; Damn it, this always happens. I think I'm gonna score, and then I never score. It's not fair.; Wedge Regret

CapnAndy posted:

I know a stat

gently caress the Cowboys and they suck, if you adjust for era they always suck, they have a Suck Over Replacement Rate of 1000%

How many dicks per second is that?

# ? Oct 27, 2023 19:03

The Dave: Sep 9, 2003

Eli's stats shouldn't allow him to sniff the hall of fame but stopping 18-0 deserves him that, a senate seat, hell rename that bread sticks at Olive Garden after him.

# ? Oct 27, 2023 19:12

biceps crimes: Apr 12, 2008

Eli being admitted as the Tom Brady slayer is a compelling argument

I don't think he's a better QB than Aaron Rodgers, but he has his place simply for owning the pats

# ? Oct 27, 2023 19:23

fartknocker: Oct 28, 2012; Damn it, this always happens. I think I'm gonna score, and then I never score. It's not fair.; Wedge Regret

Let�s not forget, Eli also stopped Favre in his last game as a Packer, and Rodgers during his 15-1 season. Plus, he pissed off Jerry Jones more than once, such as the 2007 Divisional round, winning the NFC East in the last game of 2011, and winning the first game in JerryWorld and signing the locker room wall.

# ? Oct 27, 2023 19:29

indigi: Jul 20, 2004; Can't post for 5 hours!

even if we pretend that Eli was a bad quarterback for 14 seasons, those two superbowl wins put him in unanimous first ballot. it's the Hall of Fame not the Hall of Egghead Approved Analytic Benchmarks

# ? Oct 27, 2023 19:52

Febreeze: Oct 24, 2011; I want to care, butt I dont

Eli reads this thread

https://twitter.com/EliManning/status/1717920987172200877?t=eqL7MZOAQVgOd2b4DA_7Ng&s=19

# ? Oct 27, 2023 22:14

euphronius: Feb 18, 2009

I�m surprised Eli isnt already in the hof?? He should be a lock

# ? Oct 27, 2023 22:19

blarzgh: Apr 14, 2009; SNITCHIN' RANDY; Grimey Drawer

Doltos posted:

So in 17 years of progress in the NFL you get 5 extra TDs and 98 yards on 23 more attempts?

I'm not comparing to MVP season 17 years apart

I've comparing the best season in 2003 to an average season in 2020.

I know You understand?

# ? Oct 27, 2023 22:27

Cartoon Man: Jan 31, 2004

Probably waiting to rig the voting so him and his brother can get in the same year.

# ? Oct 27, 2023 22:27

blarzgh: Apr 14, 2009; SNITCHIN' RANDY; Grimey Drawer

Febreeze posted:

Eli reads this thread

https://twitter.com/EliManning/status/1717920987172200877?t=eqL7MZOAQVgOd2b4DA_7Ng&s=19

He absolutely belongs in the Hall of Fame of funny quarterbacks

# ? Oct 27, 2023 22:27

Doltos: Dec 28, 2005; 🤌🤌🤌

blarzgh posted:

I'm not comparing to MVP season 17 years apart

I've comparing the best season in 2003 to an average season in 2020.

I know You understand?

The reason that adjusted for era is stupid is the same reason Jalen Hurts is a way better QB than Eli despite having an inaccurate noodle arm.

QB stats don't matter because there's no defined concept of an ideal QB. Even if you have a guy that can pass and run with the best of them, is that person even better than someone who specializes in one way? Someone said earlier Troy Aikman threw bullets short yardage, and he's right. He was really good at that particular thing. When he threw medium or deep the ball was a garbage duck. Was it better than Elway? No. Did it win more? Yes. Would other players be better in the situation? Well that only suits the argument that you want to pull for because it never occurred.

Now ignoring that, extrapolated magnitude is a statistic fallacy that plagues stats right now. People will research a population of 1000 people, find that 10 suffer from diabetes, someone finds that and says that extrapolated out over 1 million people 1% have diabetes. With adjusted for era the guy is essentially using a weighted formula for statistics that he finds to be more impactful. That's it.

https://www.footballperspective.com/adjusting-passer-rating-for-era-part-vi-career-passer-ratings/

This is all of football perspective's takes on it and where you're getting your stats from. He takes these stats:

code:

C2 = Attempts
D2 = Completions
E2= Passing Yards
F2 = Passing Touchdowns
G2 = Interceptions

Puts them into this formula:

=IF(C2>223,SUM(MEDIAN(0,2.375,(D2/C2-0.3)*5),MEDIAN(0,2.375,[1])/6*100,0)

And weighs them differently using league averages per year:

quote:

Adjusted Completion Percentage

For completion percentage, we can do a simple era adjustment because the multiplier is not directly tied to league average. Instead, league average is intended to be 20% higher than the floor, which is 0.30 in the original formula. So we need to rewrite completion percentage as simply

A = (Cmp% � (League_Avg_Cmp% � 0.20) ) * 5

So in an environment where the league average completion percentage was 50%, you would insert 0.3 in the blue parenthetical; in 2016, tho, you would insert 43.0%.

Which you cannot do. The formula invents plays out of thin air. They say that because there's more plays that these results will occur which is a statistical fallacy. Stats analyzes a population, it doesn't make assumptions unless there is a significance. Correlation and causation are two completely different ways to analyze stats, not what actually occurs. It's why adjusted for era is such bullshit. It's literally warping numbers without a population. It's not real. It doesn't take into account any outside variables like advancements in nutrition, training, coaching, quality of player, meta of the game, offseason maintenance, in season maintenance, medical, social, personal, or any other reason that a player could or could not play better. It's why you can't swap QBs on teams and expect one to do better. You don't know. You're just assuming.

# ? Oct 27, 2023 23:25

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 24, 2024 14:19

Mr. Nice!: Oct 13, 2005; bone shaking.
soul baking.

I found that pro football reference has a hall of fame monitor stat and Troy Aikman is second worst QB in the list. Only Jim Kelly is worse. So, Aikman isn't the worst QB in the hall of fame.

# ? Oct 27, 2023 23:29

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Football Funhouse > NFC East 2023: Everyone's a Contender* (No, not really New York)

«‹›228 »