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Google Jeb Bush posted:The latter seems unlikely, seeing how whiny Israeli hawks keep being about it. The Biden admin has a surprisingly strong record in backroom talks, foreign and domestic... but there's only so far that can go with Israel if they're really dedicated to the ethnic cleansing etc. This makes it sound like america is a client state to Israel. Can’t be much of a strong record if they’re letting israel go unleashed in a genocide
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Oct 27, 2023 22:04
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https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-10-27-23/index.htmlquote:Izzat al-Rishq, a senior member of the Hamas political bureau, said Friday that Hamas is ready to defeat Israeli forces if they enter the Gaza Strip. Wishing hamas all the best against these cowards. They are severely out gunned but they are going up against an largely untrained conscript army that is not ready for urban warfare. The US takes a real long time to train its marines in urban warfare settings and they still got dunked on hard in Iraq. also from the same source quote:The United Nations approved a resolution that called for a ceasefire in the war between Israel and Hamas on Friday in the face of strident objection from the US and Israel. Not entirely sure what all this means or what the consequences are for israel should they ignore this. I said come in! fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Oct 27, 2023 |
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Oct 27, 2023 22:07
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Google Jeb Bush posted:The latter seems unlikely, seeing how whiny Israeli hawks keep being about it. The Biden admin has a surprisingly strong record in backroom talks, foreign and domestic... but there's only so far that can go with Israel if they're really dedicated to the ethnic cleansing etc. yeah our hands are really tied here, not so tied that we cant give them billions of dollars in aid and deploy troops to prevent anything bad from happening to them but you get the idea
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Oct 27, 2023 22:07
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Per the Washington Post, here is a snippet of the reporting of what Hamas was offering in exchange to free the hostages. Which if correct is extremely generous. I get the impression that a ceasefire is now not going to happen, because a lot of outlets are reporting that Israeli bombs and possible artillery have increased in Gaza significantly in the last few hours. https://twitter.com/TVietor08/status/1717991207664767060?s=20
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Oct 27, 2023 22:11
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FlamingLiberal posted:Per the Washington Post, here is a snippet of the reporting of what Hamas was offering in exchange to free the hostages. Which if correct is extremely generous. I get the impression that a ceasefire is now not going to happen, because a lot of outlets are reporting that Israeli bombs and possible artillery have increased in Gaza significantly in the last few hours. Important to note this is only civilian hostages, which, as far as I can tell, is only like 15-20 people? It's really not clear.
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Oct 27, 2023 22:21
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Isn’t a military “hostage” just a POW? Why don’t we use that language for them?
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Oct 27, 2023 22:22
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punishedkissinger posted:Important to note this is only civilian hostages, which, as far as I can tell, is only like 15-20 people? It's really not clear. I mean that seems a perfectly reasonable exchange for 15-20 people even on just a cold hard logic viewpoint.
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Oct 27, 2023 22:23
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mannerup fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Nov 5, 2023 |
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Oct 27, 2023 22:24
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punishedkissinger posted:yeah our hands are really tied here, not so tied that we cant give them billions of dollars in aid and deploy troops to prevent anything bad from happening to them but you get the idea I tried to be pretty grammatically clear there. If the US wants to actually constrain Israel, it'll havd to involve more than backroom talks and pressure. The value of those looks like it's reached its limit.
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Oct 27, 2023 22:30
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mannerup posted:it’s for foreign civilian hostages, Israeli civilian hostages will require swaps i've only seen the same 15-20 names/pictures in any of the articles on this topic. if anyone has more info i'd love to see it.
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Oct 27, 2023 22:32
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Google Jeb Bush posted:The latter seems unlikely, seeing how whiny Israeli hawks keep being about it. The Biden admin has a surprisingly strong record in backroom talks, foreign and domestic... but there's only so far that can go with Israel if they're really dedicated to the ethnic cleansing etc. us gov very much contains multiple camps on this issue but notably the leadership of agencies that are most relevant to how the us actually responds are die-hard unconditional israel supporters. additionally the iran hawk and pro-israel camps are basically a unified bloc at the moment
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Oct 27, 2023 22:41
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Google Jeb Bush posted:The latter seems unlikely, seeing how whiny Israeli hawks keep being about it. The Biden admin has a surprisingly strong record in backroom talks, foreign and domestic... but there's only so far that can go with Israel if they're really dedicated to the ethnic cleansing etc. Biden sent two carrier groups to back up Israel.
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Oct 27, 2023 22:46
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mannerup fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Nov 5, 2023 |
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Oct 27, 2023 22:52
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So we're up to 27 journalists killed in Gaza. The last few had bombs dropped directly on their houses. https://twitter.com/pressfreedom/status/1717640815810359800 That number was 26 before I posted....
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Oct 27, 2023 22:52
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Herstory Begins Now posted:us gov very much contains multiple camps on this issue but notably the leadership of agencies that are most relevant to how the us actually responds are die-hard unconditional israel supporters. additionally the iran hawk and pro-israel camps are basically a unified bloc at the moment I mean, yes, I think the US actually pushing Israel into settling down before they're good and ready (optimistically, tens of thousands dead and more swathes of Northern Gaza razed) is what you would call a low probability outcome. That's the thing I said in those two posts: it's about time to put up or shut up and it doesn't look like the US is going to put up. BUUNNI posted:Biden sent two carrier groups to back up Israel. still trying to untangle how I feel about preventing a regional war if there would in fact have been one, tbh the carriers aren't bombing Gaza
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Oct 27, 2023 22:53
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Google Jeb Bush posted:still trying to untangle how I feel about preventing a regional war if there would in fact have been one, tbh because they’re making sure nobody else can stop the bombing of gaza. This is hair splitting that the international community and even voters don’t buy, come on Edit: all the bombs being used in the bombing of gaza are American too. Its like a mob boss trying to get out of murder charges cause he let someone else do the hit
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Oct 27, 2023 22:55
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https://www.businessinsider.com/gay-israeli-soldier-says-he-will-to-fly-lgbtq-flag-on-tank-to-fight-hamas-2023-10?IR=T remember when "some of our drone operators are nonbinary" was just a stupid meme?
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Oct 27, 2023 22:56
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mannerup posted:that seems like a poor heuristic to estimate the amount of civilian hostages That doesn't give the number of civilians. It's likely to be right that they're mostly civilians but Israel should know the actual number. It's the same problem with casualties of Hamas's attack - Israel hasn't been open about how many were civilians so people keep running with "1400 civilians" when we know a sizable number must've been IDF and cops.
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Oct 27, 2023 22:56
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Szarrukin posted:https://www.businessinsider.com/gay-israeli-soldier-says-he-will-to-fly-lgbtq-flag-on-tank-to-fight-hamas-2023-10?IR=T lol if this dumbass thinks his own government isnt coming after him sooner or later. With how extreme right their government is now, and constant new laws that take away rights of everyone in the country.
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Oct 27, 2023 23:02
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mannerup posted:that seems like a poor heuristic to estimate the amount of civilian hostages even that article is ambiguous though quote:The hostages are believed to be mostly civilians,. probably true, but i'd love to see some actual numbers
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Oct 27, 2023 23:05
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Google Jeb Bush posted:
They are there to ensure the destruction of Gaza can continue unabated.
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Oct 27, 2023 23:09
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mannerup fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Nov 5, 2023 |
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Oct 27, 2023 23:09
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Is there a storm going on over Gaza right now? There's a lot of really bright white flashes on the Gaza live streams and they look a lot different than the bombs Israel is dropping on them.
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Oct 27, 2023 23:27
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Charliegrs posted:Is there a storm going on over Gaza right now? There's a lot of really bright white flashes on the Gaza live streams and they look a lot different than the bombs Israel is dropping on them. It's God signaling the end times are upon us
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Oct 27, 2023 23:29
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It's the secret hamas fuel depots
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Oct 27, 2023 23:31
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mannerup posted:the closest breakdown I’ve seen for October 7 is 808 civilians identified so far and more than 300 part of security forces, but I’m guessing it will take more time for any solid figure I have no notion that the Israelis are telling the truth about how many people are killed. I’m sure innocents have been killed, and it’s the price of occupation
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Oct 27, 2023 23:39
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The hamas weather control device is ready to be deployed
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Oct 27, 2023 23:40
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mannerup fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Nov 5, 2023 |
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Oct 27, 2023 23:41
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mannerup posted:can you clarify what you mean by "the price of occupation" when referring to civilians, including women and children, being killed? He's being coy about what the US state department said (same words, but about Hamas and civillians.)
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Oct 27, 2023 23:43
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Interesting take from a Democratic Senator: a ceasefire would not be helpful to the Palestinians living in Gaza. https://twitter.com/ballesteros_312/status/1718019197366669344 Bombs away, then, I guess.
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Oct 27, 2023 23:46
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Neurolimal posted:He's being coy about what the US state department said (same words, but about Hamas and civillians.) More specifically, Biden said that.
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Oct 27, 2023 23:48
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edit: just deleting this, since i really didn't read things properly. fatelvis fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Oct 28, 2023 |
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Oct 27, 2023 23:51
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mannerup fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Nov 5, 2023 |
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Oct 27, 2023 23:51
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mannerup posted:ah, the "price of waging a war" comment. yeah minimizing or dismissing civilians casualties as just some inevitable by-product and not an active choice by the perpetrator of those atrocities is pretty hosed up.
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Oct 27, 2023 23:56
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Neurolimal posted:In my personal opinion: Israel failed to realize that a large-scale Hamas attack, trained in advance for a year, where Hamas trained soldiers to use paragliders in broad daylight, was going to occur. Anyone who believes they actually have an extensive map of Hamas' underground tunnel & base network is looking for a reason to support the bombing. You were stroking Israel's "security capibilities" dick yesterday because they operate a 2 million people prison. Running your mouth about them exporting it all over the world because they are so advanced! And now "its impossible they know about tunnels they've been working on for 10 years!" Make your mind up dude. Whatever fits your narrative I guess
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Oct 28, 2023 00:18
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It's been funny (well, no, nothing loving funny about this) to see the thirst for brown muslamiac blood all over the 'West' flare up again, because not that long ago the reactionary/conservative axis was not so subtly making peace with aspects of Islam. Andrew Tate and his chud army hyping it as a way to be a strong manly man, culture warriors praising how there's no woke LGBTQ or trans issue 'over there', and even the White house sweating blood to make sure all the Gulf monarchies finally make nice with Apartheid Israel so everyone can get back to keeping gas prices low and Shia populations contained. Liberals and conservatives even pretended to give a toss about Uyghurs! But now it's back to "these beasts will slash your throat with a curved blade the moment you let your guard down" on one side and "Welp, I'll be looking the other way while the blood flows, too bad so sad" on the other of official business.
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Oct 28, 2023 00:21
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Viller posted:You were stroking Israel's "security capibilities" dick yesterday because they operate a 2 million people prison. Running your mouth about them exporting it all over the world because they are so advanced! Cops aren’t notorious for being discerning customers. They buy that fraud-rear end ShotSpotter thing still. The way that Israel treats Palestinians is a marketing program for them. Do you think cops care more about effectiveness than looking cool and having new toys to point at poor people? That’s a market that doesn’t punish functional failure.
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Oct 28, 2023 00:23
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mannerup fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Nov 5, 2023 |
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Oct 28, 2023 00:24
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It loving loving loving sucks how "Israel good, Palestine bad" has embedded itself as the mainstream normie political position where even a vast bulk of democrats and even celebrities that aren't right-wing cranks are pro-Israel. A genocide is happening and the people who care are being demonized
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Oct 28, 2023 00:26
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Viller posted:You were stroking Israel's "security capibilities" dick yesterday because they operate a 2 million people prison. Running your mouth about them exporting it all over the world because they are so advanced! Has Israel demonstrated any capability to assess where Hamas' underground infrastructure is located. So far we've about 14 dead "Hamas Officials", who can be anyone from a military commander to the accountant at a food bank. Many if not all of which died at their homes, not underground. Also, I said that they were making money off of Palestinians. I didn't say that they were invincible. You have hit on something though: for all their machismo, for all their propaganda about how Israel is an incredibly powerful security state capable of managing millions of underclass humans, for all the extolling of the tactical competency of the IDF, they're being embarrassed by an imprisoned city with an exponentially smaller economy, their far less sophisticated military equipment, and the proxy force of a proxy state. I wouldn't be surprised if, outside of bribed deals, the images of Hezbollah taking out Merkavas, blowing up radar towers, and Hamas breaching the wall, ends up having an impact on their security industries. It's clear that they do not in fact have a airtight seal on Gaza, which leaves the less impressive "We're good at administrating checkpoints in the region with the collaborator government" selling point. Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Oct 28, 2023 |
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Oct 28, 2023 00:30
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