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HolHorsejob posted:lol, 2 weeks later... I was wondering what came of that. It looks like nobody had anything to say anywhere. I think my advice on what to do in pizza ovens is broken because I'm Mr Big-Wood-Fired and just throw in all kinds of stuff in pans and dutch ovens after the heats dropped back and we're done with pizzas.
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Oct 24, 2023 01:13
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Someone a while back was looking for other things to use a pizza oven for and somehow i'd never heard of this and it looks pretty great: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI6uAJNqt0g
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Oct 29, 2023 18:27
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I guess I'm going to risk it: Modernist Pizza is in the wind as of last week, and it is a tome. It is gorgeous, but it also goes hard on theory, and now I have months of experimentation ahead of me.
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Oct 31, 2023 01:06
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A friend taunted me with pictures of delicious pizza, so I'm taking my first swing at deep dish. A well-greased cast iron with olive oil and butter, 700g of my standard sourdough crust, maybe 75ml of sauce, and a heap of cheese and peps. Pre-cooked for a few minutes on a hot burner, just went into a 550 oven  e:  HolHorsejob fucked around with this message at 06:01 on Nov 2, 2023 |
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Nov 2, 2023 05:02
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Coke scale acquired, and you know what that means: It's micro yeast poolish experimentation time, Edison style. I'm barely started and I'm already sick of it.
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Nov 2, 2023 16:08
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HolHorsejob posted:A friend taunted me with pictures of delicious pizza, so I'm taking my first swing at deep dish. whoa dayum, looks tasty.
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Nov 2, 2023 16:29
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I had a pizza steel forever ago but it was a smallish 1/4" and I (somehow) lost it in a move. Been pining for shaking some pizza off a peel, so I got a piece of 3/8" thick 16x18 steel ($40!), stripped off the mill scale with a little hydrochloric acid and cleaned up the edges. Seasoned up, slapped some dough on it.  Made 4 pizzas in 2 days, all more or less NY style. I could use more heat from the top faster, but I'm pretty happy with the underside.   Also made a tomato pie/apizza sorta thing, which was nice.
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Nov 4, 2023 01:38
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Very nice shaping. Looks like a perfect circle
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Nov 4, 2023 02:00
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A litany of failure: On to round 2
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Nov 4, 2023 16:26
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Skinnymansbeerbelly posted:A litany of failure: Are you allowing the yeast anytime at a more happy temperature? 55F is a temp where they’re going to need a long time to develop the poolish properly. As it’s not even the full ferment why not give them some love and raise the temp closer to a happy number for the yeast?
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Nov 4, 2023 18:42
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I plan to increment from 55, to 60, to 65. This is for a 48 hour poolish. I started with 55 because of this right here: I want that heterofermentative flavor, without keeping a sourdough starter.
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Nov 4, 2023 21:10
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Skinnymansbeerbelly posted:I plan to increment from 55, to 60, to 65. This is for a 48 hour poolish. I started with 55 because of this right here: Where’s the lactic acid bacteria coming from, the wheat? I’ll be interested in seeing if this works for you, but it doesn’t make a lot of sense from a sourdough direction or from my yeast/bacteria farming for brewing. LAB do function slowly at that temp, but they’re not going to multiply and act really slowly. Maybe that’s the idea, but then you’re relying on picking up enough from the kitchen to go into the poolish in the first place.
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Nov 5, 2023 00:59
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When you make deep dish, what changes do you make to the dough? I'm making cast iron deep dish and my first attempt yielded a pizza that was too puffy and didn't flatten out right
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Nov 5, 2023 04:06
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Jhet posted:Where’s the lactic acid bacteria coming from, the wheat? I’ll be interested in seeing if this works for you, but it doesn’t make a lot of sense from a sourdough direction or from my yeast/bacteria farming for brewing. LAB do function slowly at that temp, but they’re not going to multiply and act really slowly. Maybe that’s the idea, but then you’re relying on picking up enough from the kitchen to go into the poolish in the first place. Yeah, from the flour itself. The thing is, I know that I can get that nice funk from a low temperature-ish 48 hour ferment because I made a dough with wonderful flavor from a 48 hour room temperature no-knead once. Unfortunately that was made before I began controlling fermentation temperature with an iron fist, so I do not know what the exact fermentation temperature was, other than fall to winterish. My hope is that if I cycle though some combinations and essentially try to split the difference between fermenting a poolish and a sourdough starter with the ridiculously low yeast %age/low temp combination that I might end up with one of them having a pleasant funkiness. Modernist says 55 is ideal, other pizza nerds suggest 65 is better. Skinnymansbeerbelly fucked around with this message at 05:51 on Nov 5, 2023 |
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Nov 5, 2023 05:37
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HolHorsejob posted:When you make deep dish, what changes do you make to the dough? I'm making cast iron deep dish and my first attempt yielded a pizza that was too puffy and didn't flatten out right Any chance you have pics? How big of a cast iron, and how much dough do you put in? How much sauce are you putting on? For a 10" pie here is my dough: 240g bread flour (King Arthur blue bag, or special patent) 4g salt Yeast (depends on how long I want to ferment, usually 1-2g) 170g water I have pizza hut 12" pans too, for those I use roughly the same ratio: 312g bread flour 6g salt 2g yeast 225g water In both cases, my dough stretches out to a pretty thin disc, and barely stretches to the edge of the pan. The final product ends up being roughly 1/2" thick or so. The first time I made a pan pizza, I did a 300g flour recipe in a 10" skillet, and it ended up being like focaccia thick, maybe 1-1.5". It was good but, more like a loaf of bread than a pizza.
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Nov 5, 2023 13:04
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Skinnymansbeerbelly posted:Yeah, from the flour itself. The thing is, I know that I can get that nice funk from a low temperature-ish 48 hour ferment because I made a dough with wonderful flavor from a 48 hour room temperature no-knead once. Unfortunately that was made before I began controlling fermentation temperature with an iron fist, so I do not know what the exact fermentation temperature was, other than fall to winterish. My hope is that if I cycle though some combinations and essentially try to split the difference between fermenting a poolish and a sourdough starter with the ridiculously low yeast %age/low temp combination that I might end up with one of them having a pleasant funkiness. Modernist says 55 is ideal, other pizza nerds suggest 65 is better. This link you posted is a much longer way of writing down my questions for why you went colder. 65F is the lowest temp I’ll do when co-fermenting with yeast and LAB for beer, and that’s going to give me a clean acidity and yeast profile for most strains. But the LAB also is much slower than if I give it a head start at 90F or higher. Good luck finding your ideal ferment, it’s a lot of dough to make and eat.
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Nov 5, 2023 17:47
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I'm doing kenjis foolproof pan pizza recipe and I haven't made it in a while. His recipe says it makes two ten inch cast iron pizzas. https://www.seriouseats.com/foolproof-pan-pizza-recipe I doubled the recipe since I'm using two twelve inch cast iron rather than two ten inch cast irons. I haven't done real math since junior year of high school. Any recommendations on how much dough I should use for each one? Either by weight or just cutting it into thirds instead of halves?
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Nov 7, 2023 01:20
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i would guess to use about a third more dough for each ball, given the difference in area
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Nov 7, 2023 01:29
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bartlebee posted:I'm doing kenjis foolproof pan pizza recipe and I haven't made it in a while. His recipe says it makes two ten inch cast iron pizzas. https://www.seriouseats.com/foolproof-pan-pizza-recipe I would do 550g (ish) of dough and see what it looks like in the pan.
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Nov 7, 2023 03:40
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I've discovered that you can put 3x as much dough and 2x as much cheese into a pan pizza, but it will still feed just as many people as a neopolitan of the same diameter
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Nov 7, 2023 07:28
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Thank you. That seems about right but I remember there was some study about how the volume increases by a huge percentage the more you increase the diameter and then I remembered I didn't take calculus 20 years ago so I could take two choir classes instead and decided to bail on attempting the math.
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Nov 7, 2023 19:59
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This comes up enough that we should just slam down a formula. Now, I did calculus in college and was somehow actually pretty good at it, but I also paradoxically suck at algebra, so here goes nothing. The thing you want when adjusting a recipe for a different size is a surface area change, not volume, because the thickness should stay the same. So I believe the formula is: Factor = (new width)^2 / (old width)^2 It's two pizzas, but if you're trying to still poop out two pizzas on the other end, then the factor still holds. So going from a 10-inch pizza to a 12-inch pizza: Factor = (12)^2 / (10)^2 Factor = 144 / 100 Factor = 1.44 So you'd multiply all the ingredients by 1.44. But wait, surface area uses radius! But proportionately, you're dividing by the same amount, so it doesn't matter. If you're not sure, then it would be 36 / 25 = 1.44. It's true that it's hard to estimate area and volume changes. Going up just two inches like that basically means you have to add a half more dough than you already had. Edit: I'm kind of going by the Internet theory that if nobody's posting something, then post it wrong and you'll get it as a correction. I kind of want to get this formula down too since I have to do this from time to time.
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Nov 7, 2023 20:31
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So, shots fired: Italian food was invented during/after WW2 from heavy American influence https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZZfwyKa0Lc Some fun words about the Magherita origin story: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/263340437_Folklore_Fakelore_History_Invented_Tradition_and_the_Origins_of_the_Pizza_Margherita
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Nov 7, 2023 22:51
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:This comes up enough that we should just slam down a formula. Now, I did calculus in college and was somehow actually pretty good at it, but I also paradoxically suck at algebra, so here goes nothing. Crazy enough I was double checking kenji's recipe and one of the top comments: "For a single pie in a 12" cast iron pan using the "multiply by 1.44 for 12"" and "divide in half for 1" formula" and then they list the recipe scaled down for one pizza in a twelve inch pan so I'm going to take that as confirmation that your math was correct.
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Nov 8, 2023 16:49
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Poofy chewy cuppy goodness 
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Nov 9, 2023 17:18
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Hypnolobster posted:Poofy chewy cuppy goodness Please deliver directly to my gaping maw.
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Nov 9, 2023 19:24
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I'm using a wood-fired ooni knockoff and I cannot get a decent bake on the underside for love nor money. I'm cooking 175g doughballs stretched across a 12" x 12" x 1/4" stone, using a thin spread of sauce and a relatively light topping load. When I have enough fire that the stone heats up to 950, the top cooks too quickly. If I let the heat go past that crest, the stone cools down in lockstep. Do I just need a 1/2" steel plate for an unreasonable amount of thermal mass? Use ridiculously small/thin doughballs? Rig something up to heat from both above and below?
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Nov 14, 2023 06:54
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Hypnolobster posted:I had a pizza steel forever ago but it was a smallish 1/4" and I (somehow) lost it in a move. Been pining for shaking some pizza off a peel, so I got a piece of 3/8" thick 16x18 steel ($40!), stripped off the mill scale with a little hydrochloric acid and cleaned up the edges. Seasoned up, slapped some dough on it. Some really good looking pizza 🔥 Got some nice NY slices going  Been working on the square pie game - Grandma style for now  Sausage and Pepp Tomato Pie with Garlic Lemon Ricttoa Dollops  Annnnd our thanksgiving sando The Dang It, Bobby! Confit turkey, Mom’s cranberry sauce, Boursin cheese spread, herb aioli, fried shallots, Brioche bun, served with chicken schmaltz gravy on the side for dipping 
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Nov 15, 2023 04:30
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ogopogo posted:Some really good looking pizza 🔥  loving incredible
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Nov 15, 2023 08:14
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HolHorsejob posted:I'm using a wood-fired ooni knockoff and I cannot get a decent bake on the underside for love nor money. I'd look at the stone first. I feel like with how quickly the temperature changes and for how thin that stone is, it's going to just crack anyways. Before that, you can see if you can go cooler and then lift the pizza up to the roof with a peel (recommend metal) to get some final leoparding from the cooler overhead temperature.
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Nov 15, 2023 23:04
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3 weeks, 10 pounds of flour, and 72 poolishes later, and the results thus far for a 48 hour 55° poolish: total failure. A few got halfway risen, but for the most part, they failed to fizzle even a little. The bread puns are endless: What am I trying to prove? What indeed. 55° is not it. On to 60°. Also I have concluded that much like homebrewing, at no point in hobby pizza making do you ever actually spend less money. Rather, the quality of the pizza rises, while money continues to get spent on ticky tacky bullshit. Last month was the milligram scale. Next month is a heating pad for my fermentation station: the oven light method doesn't quite offer enough control. It never ends.
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Nov 20, 2023 17:03
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Skinnymansbeerbelly posted:3 weeks, 10 pounds of flour, and 72 poolishes later, and the results thus far for a 48 hour 55° poolish: total failure. A few got halfway risen, but for the most part, they failed to fizzle even a little. The bread puns are endless: What am I trying to prove? What indeed. 55° is not it. On to 60°. Goondolences. Sometimes that's how science goes. I've been working on my sourdough crust recipe for about 3 months at this point and I feel like no closer than when I started.
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Nov 20, 2023 18:19
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I said some stuff about my poolish experience at some point, but I don't remember when. Going back something like over a decade ago, my first pizza recipe had a poolish step. I screwed around with it, but I always ended up adding yeast when making real dough out of it. I would say it wasn't for nought. The hydration was particularly useful and equalized a lot of flours. With a poolish, I could get comparable dough performance from a mix of the cheapest AP supermarket flour boosted with vital wheat gluten as I would get from King Arthur bread flour without poolish. Wow, that was a run-on. I have more recently messed with sourdough starters and figured out a few things about the critters from that. If I have an old, dead starter, I can get it kicking if I double the mass of it out on the counter for a half day before fridging it. Then it would start a prison riot in the fridge. So I would say if you want that poolish to do all the work that you will have to step up to the final volume. I don't think that is unusual.
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Nov 21, 2023 21:21
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I'm not sure I understand. I'm doing a backslop, 50% by weight, at the 24 hour mark on half the samples. Is that what you mean?
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Nov 22, 2023 03:12
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I can't figure out what "backslop" is. The comparison to my starter is probably trickier, since that is an ongoing party of critters that have risen and fallen multiple times over the past few years. My anecdote of doubling it and letting it warm a bit on the counter probably doesn't transfer 100% to a new poolish.
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Nov 22, 2023 04:24
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For the backslop cultures: I halve the starting mass, ferment 24 hours, then add that other half back in, and wait another 24 hours.
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Nov 22, 2023 15:18
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Can someone explain what a “backslop” culture is? I want to do a little write up of my process working with my sourdough poolish, but I’ve never heard the phrase backslop before in baking.
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Nov 22, 2023 17:12
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I'm just gonna post the pages where I first heard the term  Basically my terminology is all hosed up because I'm trying to split the difference between a poolish and a starter 
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Nov 22, 2023 17:29
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Skinnymansbeerbelly posted:For the backslop cultures: I halve the starting mass, ferment 24 hours, then add that other half back in, and wait another 24 hours. This isn’t backslop culturing. To backslop you take a bit of the previous cycle (some dough you didn’t use to bake, some kombucha you didn’t bottle) and add it to the new batch. It serves the purpose of lowering the starting pH into a range more ideal for the microbes you want, and into a less ideal range for the ones you really don’t. So you can take a bit of the fermented sourdough and add it back into your starter, but you’re basically doing it already when you remove the part you’re using for dough and then just normally feed the starter. The backslop is what’s left of the starter in this concept.
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Nov 22, 2023 17:34
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Bear with me for a moment: so for a proper backslop, you remove half of the existing culture, and then add flour and water to replace the lost mass. Repeat a few times, and it only grows more flavorful, yeah? But is there a reason you couldn't just start off with, say, 1/8 the mass of your desired end product, (ferment & double) x 3, and then end up with the same effect?
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Nov 22, 2023 17:54
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