|
I get a sense that the arguments that are made against voting for Democrats in online leftist spaces can (and would) be extended to the point where, as long as any problems or injustices exist, Democrats are responsible for them, and so are those who vote for Democrats. (I'm not ascribing that behavior to anybody here; just noting that it's the direction these conversations tend to go in.) So I'm afraid I'm going to have to agree with those who are questioning the fruitfulness of the discussion. It appears to be an inflexible decision, made out of emotion, searching for its own intellectual justification. I may be misunderstanding, but if that's the case, I think I am probably not going to ever understand. It's just yet another new front of mutual unintelligibility on the American political spectrum... :/
Misunderstood fucked around with this message at 04:54 on Oct 31, 2023 |
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 04:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 01:43 |
|
|
Misunderstood posted:I get a sense that the arguments that are made against voting for Democrats in online leftist spaces can (and would) be extended to the point where, as long as any problems or injustices exist, Democrats are responsible for them, and so are those who vote for Democrats. (I'm not ascribing that behavior to anybody here; just noting that it's the direction these conversations tend to go in.) So I'm afraid I'm going to have to agree with those who are questioning the fruitfulness of the discussion. It appears to be an inflexible decision, made out of emotion, searching for its own intellectual justification. I may be misunderstanding, but if that's the case, I think I am probably not going to ever understand. I think it's mostly confirmation bias, wrt the "Dems are to blame for everything" rhetoric. If that's what you're looking for, you're going to end up finding it to the exclusion of most else, just like if you were looking for "Dems can never fail and can only be failed" or "It was Agatha all along!", you'd be finding majorities of that. In a broader scope, the Democrats get a lot more heat (here at least) because the Republicans are expected to be utter human garbage. That's probably the one thing we all actually manage to agree on here, is that Republicans are going to have a Bad Take on any given subject. Dems, on the other hand, are often held up as the Good Cops. They're the ones who are supposed to operate on a higher standard and NOT be god-loving-awful, so it contrasts that much more when examples of them being god-loving-awful do frequently pop up.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 04:55
|
|
|
the_steve posted:I think it's mostly confirmation bias, wrt the "Dems are to blame for everything" rhetoric. If that's what you're looking for, you're going to end up finding it to the exclusion of most else, just like if you were looking for "Dems can never fail and can only be failed" or "It was Agatha all along!", you'd be finding majorities of that. How is this anything but "your assumptions about my side are wrong but all my assumptions about your side are right"
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 05:12
|
|
|
Elephant Ambush posted:Voting for Democrats does not result in good things. It results in slightly less bad things and the difference between what Democrats deliver and what Republicans deliver is almost imperceptible. I voted for Democrats last election and in my state they got rid of Right to Work, repealed anti-abortion laws, added LGBTQ protections to our anti-discrimination laws, and passed universal free meals for all public school children. The difference between what the Republicans were going to deliver is quite perceptible.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 05:18
|
|
|
Elephant Ambush posted:The difference between what Democrats deliver and what Republicans deliver is almost imperceptible. Republicans will invade Mexico if they win in 2024.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 05:23
|
|
|
Elephant Ambush posted:I know you're probed and can't respond to this but this is for the thread in general. The governor of California, a Democrat, recently vetoed a law that would protect trans kids. I know that's just one state but it's always brought up as the most progressive state that chuds hate the most. You seem to be mistaking "better" with "perfect in every way". California is hilariously far from perfect, but here as a trans person I have legal protection against employment discrimination. I have an attorney general who is suing a school district that is trying to force teachers to notify parents if their kids change their pronouns. https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/29/us/california-schools-gender-change-notification/index.html The same Governor you're painting as anti-trans signed a law protecting trans kids who are fleeing persecution in other states. https://www.kqed.org/news/11929233/california-becomes-first-sanctuary-state-for-transgender-youth-seeking-medical-care If for some reason I were to be incarcerated I don't have to fear being put into a men's prison (and you'll never guess what governor signed it). https://www.justice-firm.com/blog/sb-132-the-transgender-respect-agency-and-dignity-act/ Trans people in California have these things because we have elected Democratic governments. If Republicans were in power these things would be under attack, like they are in Republican controlled states today. It isn't just California. In general, trans people have better protection when Democrats are in power. Elephant Ambush posted:Voting for Democrats does not result in good things. It results in slightly less bad things and the difference between what Democrats deliver and what Republicans deliver is almost imperceptible. It is imperceptible to you. It is life and death to me.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 05:25
|
|
|
Bugsy posted:Good news, that just might be happening.  loving can't wait to see Apartheid Clyde actually have to deal with proper militarized unions instead of the nascent unions he's crushed before they could get started.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 05:40
|
|
|
Alkydere posted:
Wonder if he will start silencing pro union tweets.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 05:42
|
|
|
I'd be curious to see how many of the hardline anti-dems are people stuck in hell states. Cause, like, yeah, everything people have said about what the Republicans will do to the vulnerable is true, so when I walk in to vote knowing that they're going to win up and down the ballot and it's not even going to be close it kills pretty much any and all enthusiasm I might have for Voting. We might keep Beshear, maybe, but that's going to be it. Or, not to call Fister Roboto out, but a few pages back they said Fister Roboto posted:If you want to have an actual impact, there are several things you can do: And that's a harsh and sad lol all on its own.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 06:07
|
|
|
Elephant Ambush posted:I know you're probed and can't respond to this but this is for the thread in general. The governor of California, a Democrat, recently vetoed a law that would protect trans kids. I know that's just one state but it's always brought up as the most progressive state that chuds hate the most. And to extend that to women, the Democrats got leaked a Supreme Court decision that was going to overturn Roe vs Wade and they did nothing. They had a majority and could have codified abortion as being legal nationwide but instead they said "hey donate a bunch of money and maybe we'll do something". They did not codify abortion as legal in this country because they did not want to. Democrat party leaders are also on record multiple times endorsing anti-choice Democrats who are running against pro-choice Democrats in certain House races I always find it interesting that right wingers don't have the same cadre of people who believe electoralism doesn't work. The hard right has voted ceaselessly since 1992 to turn the US into a fascist nation. They vote every drat election and every drat primary, and they have succeeded in getting closer to what they want over time. We're about to do away with these electoral formalities entirely. You'd think if voting didn't matter, and all Democrats were as terrible as Debbie Wasserman Schultz, that Republicans wouldn't be so committed to the project of gerrymandering, kicking voters off the rolls, felony disenfranchisement, and taking over all election boards and stuffing them with sycophants. What are they afraid of? I've always wondered if it's some kind of psyop that has been very effective in pacifying the left in the US. I understand that it is very lovely having to vote again and again just to keep things from getting worse while waiting on demographics to save the day but that's pretty much the play.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 06:23
|
|
|
Bodyholes posted:I always find it interesting that right wingers don't have the same cadre of people who believe electoralism doesn't work. The hard right has voted ceaselessly since 1992 to turn the US into a fascist nation. They vote every drat election and every drat primary, and they have succeeded in getting closer to what they want over time. We're about to do away with these electoral formalities entirely. You'd think if voting didn't matter, and all Democrats were as terrible as Debbie Wasserman Schultz, that Republicans wouldn't be so committed to the project of gerrymandering, kicking voters off the rolls, felony disenfranchisement, and taking over all election boards and stuffing them with sycophants. What are they afraid of? Russian propaganda targeting the US, including leftists in particular, has historically focused heavily on deteriorating participation in civic systems. It's the same throughline they use domestically.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 06:28
|
|
|
Yeah even the libertarians have managed to take over and ruin a town or two, have the leftists managed the same anywhere?
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 06:29
|
|
|
The US has spent the last 125 years relentlessly crushing domestic leftism, up to and including assassination. But yeah, sure, it's those dastardly Russians and lazy lefties to blame.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 06:43
|
|
|
Byzantine posted:The US has spent the last 125 years relentlessly crushing domestic leftism, up to and including assassination. But yeah, sure, it's those dastardly Russians and lazy lefties to blame. Is the threat of assassination the reason so many on the left are telling us not to vote in this thread?
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 06:44
|
|
|
Bodyholes posted:I always find it interesting that right wingers don't have the same cadre of people who believe electoralism doesn't work. Republican politicians try very hard to get and keep the votes of committed republican voters. Republicans voters are, despite this, willing to say they hate republican politicians and demand more extreme ones. This in turn leads to more ideologically committed republican politicians. They work to please their right flank. Committed democratic voters, in contrast, spend a lot of time and effort coming up with reasons for why democratic politicians not doing what they want is actually smart, realistic, appropriate, and consequently something they and all smart voters should tolerate. This in turn creates a very different set of incentives for dem politicians. The left liberal vote is generally secure. It’s the right wing of the party and swing voters that must be chased.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 06:57
|
|
|
socialsecurity posted:Is the threat of assassination the reason so many on the left are telling us not to vote in this thread? It's a major reason why American socialists (to distinguish from the broader 'the left' that some use to include the Democrats) are a nebulous blob of directionless, leaderless malcontents operating on vibes. socialsecurity posted:Yeah even the libertarians have managed to take over and ruin a town or two, have the leftists managed the same anywhere? There's that Seattle Autonomous Zone the anarchists set up in 2020. Lasted less than a month before the cops marched in on orders from the (Democratic) mayor, because the government will allow libertarians to control entire cities, but drops the hammer on anarchists.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 07:01
|
|
|
Byzantine posted:It's a major reason why American socialists (to distinguish from the broader 'the left' that some use to include the Democrats) are a nebulous blob of directionless, leaderless malcontents operating on vibes. I mean the libertarians were elected like in that town they let get taken over by bears. I'm not aware of any libertarians just declaring several city blocks their own government and getting away with it so this seems like a very dishonest comparison.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 07:06
|
|
|
Bodyholes posted:I always find it interesting that right wingers don't have the same cadre of people who believe electoralism doesn't work. The hard right has voted ceaselessly since 1992 to turn the US into a fascist nation. They vote every drat election and every drat primary, and they have succeeded in getting closer to what they want over time. We're about to do away with these electoral formalities entirely. You'd think if voting didn't matter, and all Democrats were as terrible as Debbie Wasserman Schultz, that Republicans wouldn't be so committed to the project of gerrymandering, kicking voters off the rolls, felony disenfranchisement, and taking over all election boards and stuffing them with sycophants. What are they afraid of? Up until the 1970s, American Evangelicals/fundamentalists, for example, weren't that politically involved compared to today. Despite a generally more religious population at the time, that meant that its influence on politics was predictably different. That changed in large part in reaction to how important electoralism was in furthering progressive causes of the time like the civil rights movement and women's lib, both of which had religious backlash. For instance, anti-abortion became a rallying cry among churches who had previously not cared much about it before Roe, largely because their actual grievances about integration were too publicly unpalatable to say out loud by then. But either way, they were followed by other factions and the Republicans ended up with a right flank that's guaranteed to show up to every election, and the only question is who they primary for.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 07:10
|
|
|
Best Friends posted:Republican politicians try very hard to get and keep the votes of committed republican voters. Republicans voters are, despite this, willing to say they hate republican politicians and demand more extreme ones. This in turn leads to more ideologically committed republican politicians. They work to please their right flank. On the contrary, democratic voters are very fickle. They don't show up for midterms or primaries, and they decide every few election cycles to try throwing an election to see if they start getting better democrats from it, and it never happens. But this never stops them from spending a lot of time and effort coming up with reasons why this strategy is very effective. After all, it's in the book!
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 07:10
|
|
|
Best Friends posted:Republican politicians try very hard to get and keep the votes of committed republican voters. Republicans voters are, despite this, willing to say they hate republican politicians and demand more extreme ones. This in turn leads to more ideologically committed republican politicians. They work to please their right flank. It sounds like the solution is to have leftists vote in Democratic primaries so that Democratic politicians are as afraid of primary challengers from the left as Republican ones are from the right.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 07:22
|
|
|
I make a clear distinction between Democrats in local elections and Democrats in the fed. The latter have been neocons in disguise for decades now and deserve 0 support. Neither do mainstream Republicans. Republicans get talked about like they’re a singular religious group, which is far from the truth, and ignores the pandering Democrats do to Christians and Zionists as well. Biden is doing nothing for UAW. Don’t take their individual win away from them. Just last year Biden was actively undermining the railroad strike over basics like sick leave. The Fed has to change. Gallup polls have shown clear majority support for a third party for over a decade now. Similarly, only a third have faith in current parties. https://news.gallup.com/poll/512135/support-third-political-party.aspx That doesn’t get accomplished by not voting. Single issue voting reform is the only peaceful way. Enough people see it and it has a chance. Nowadays the media won’t even discuss 3rd party numbers even when it gets up to 30% in some areas. They know once it becomes a discussion it has legs and has chance to spoil the status quo. There are spoilers from many angles coming up in the next federal election (see link). It is going to be the center of discussion this next cycle. Biden vs Trump isn’t a choice the majority wants. https://www.theindianalawyer.com/articles/how-third-party-and-independent-candidates-could-threaten-democrats-and-republicans-in-2024 And countries rarely do any electoral changes incrementally - they’ve all needed revolutions to put people protections into place. You want to mock me as an idiot for trying to accomplish things peacefully then don’t take offense when I point out you are actively supporting genocide with your decisions. You are. The people affecting your kids rights are down ticket, vote who you want there. Not at the fed Mid-Life Crisis fucked around with this message at 07:48 on Oct 31, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 07:46
|
|
|
DeadlyMuffin posted:It sounds like the solution is to have leftists vote in Democratic primaries so that Democratic politicians are as afraid of primary challengers from the left as Republican ones are from the right. In places where they left liberal bloc is significant that’s feasible. That’s the aoc origin story. Whether that actually moved the party anywhere is a larger discussion. But to bring it back to the comparison of left dems versus right republicans: a) there’s simply a lot more right republicans and b) moderate republicans are much more amenable to them than their dem analogues. The majority of dems do, and forever will support the party, leaving the left end without great options. It’s very hard to make the case that left dems have a viable electoral path to accomplish left goals in a party whose members mostly enjoy talking themselves into accepting whatever democratic politicians support, up to and including literal ethnic cleansing.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 07:50
|
|
|
Byzantine posted:The US has spent the last 125 years relentlessly crushing domestic leftism, up to and including assassination. But yeah, sure, it's those dastardly Russians and lazy lefties to blame. Pretty much. By design Leftism in the West has been constructed to be extremely divisive, fragmented, terrified of success, and without a history. That its ideas have as much support as it does is a testament to how enduring those ideas are, even when they're watered down and delegitimized. It's been built around make-work solutions and stripped of understanding of what actually makes change happen; Threat.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 08:02
|
|
|
Raenir Salazar posted:I don't agree that it was obvious since that wasn't what I was specifically addressing in my original post, which would mean that it's a bit of a non-sequitor to reply to me with that. Sorry, it did seem obvious to me but perhaps it was because I was reading several pages to catch up with the thread rather than being in it posting, gave me a different perspective. Bodyholes posted:I always find it interesting that right wingers don't have the same cadre of people who believe electoralism doesn't work. The hard right has voted ceaselessly since 1992 to turn the US into a fascist nation. They vote every drat election and every drat primary, and they have succeeded in getting closer to what they want over time. We're about to do away with these electoral formalities entirely. You'd think if voting didn't matter, and all Democrats were as terrible as Debbie Wasserman Schultz, that Republicans wouldn't be so committed to the project of gerrymandering, kicking voters off the rolls, felony disenfranchisement, and taking over all election boards and stuffing them with sycophants. What are they afraid of? I think the perceived difference is not in the efficacy of voting per se (even though many would frame it as such) but that, in the eyes of many, there is a tremendous difference in the willingness to utilize power when they win it. GOP voters turning out reliably is only part of the equation - the other part is that when it results in Republican legislatures and executives, they absolutely use it to do anything they think they can get away with. Dems meanwhile are taken by the left of their base to be either in hock to interests who don't want a bunch of stuff to change, or simply operating on a cowardly inside-the-beltway mentality where they're so afraid of wasting political capital or losing swing voters that they never actually get anything done. There are definitely plenty on the left who won't be happy with the Democrats because they want actual overturning of the social and economic order (And for transparency's sake, I'm among this group) but there are also a lot who would be far more ready to hold their nose if they believed they saw the Dems actually fighting, like willing to throw out executive orders to do Good Thing and fight about it in the courts, or the starting point for legislation being a full wish-list rather than starting out already striking half the contents on the assumption other legislators would appreciate this and meet them halfway. Just look at how enthusiastic a lot of the left was about Bernie (and with a similar story, Corbyn in the UK, where both got ratfucked by their own party's right) even though many of us are far more radical than him and considered him to be the reasonable compromise; being willing to actually call it like he saw it, and projecting the idea he would be willing to direct his administration to fight for his policies, made up a hell of a lot of the distance between the far left and where he was.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 09:09
|
|
|
Ah, we're back to fight rhetoric. The Biden administration has in fact taken a number of the unlawful executive actions that the left is supposedly, and lost in court, as was predicted, and are now being blamed for the consequences of losing in court. Explaining how or why the executive does not function as a dictatorship and is in fact restrained by courts or laws or physics is itself attacked as excuse-making, the ongoing exercise of rejecting falsifiable specific statements for broad content-free attacks. The Republicans are not particularly effective at accomplishing their stated goals. Their stated goals are easier when they involve destroying things. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 09:52 on Oct 31, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 09:49
|
|
|
I was very much trying to present those as arguments made by the left to explore the differences that were being talked about, rather than pushing them as an actual position to be debated on their own merits.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 10:58
|
|
|
Byzantine posted:There's that Seattle Autonomous Zone the anarchists set up in 2020. Lasted less than a month before the cops marched in on orders from the (Democratic) mayor, because the government will allow libertarians to control entire cities, but drops the hammer on anarchists. TBH, Seattle probably laid the hammer down on CHOP/CHAZ because they felt threatened that their security might start stealing jobs from the police. They already had the shooting/murdering Black teenagers for being a “threat” thing down pretty well.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 11:43
|
|
|
You can't compare the left's place in the Democrats with the ultra-right's place in the GOP. They're completely different because of how the last party realignment has shaken out. When the realignment began, there was some trading of demographics and shaking out party planks. However as it was really getting going, it changed from a realignment to a refinement. The Democrats sought to expand their coalition, and the Republicans decided that the best way forward was to sit in the fire and purge the impurities. Every year we trend towards the wholly homogeneous and pure True Right. As time has gone on we've become more and more the parties of Conservative Purification and Everyone Else. Republican Libertarians, Evangelicals, and other Psychopaths aren't fighting in their primaries with a wide array of views. They're fighting within 3 degrees of political agreement. Meanwhile the Democrats are now a party that spans the distance from Leftists all the way to Never-Trumpers who were lifelong Republicans until yesterday. Of course Leftists, a group that has been violently and ruthlessly targeted since their inception, are going to be far more likely to question whether they should vote for the party or not. Especially since so many of them live in areas where their one vote doesn't matter due to the Electoral College. Meanwhile Nazis, a group that has been coddled since their inception, are more than happy to vote since their wildest political dreams have been coming true within the party. Especially since the Republicans keep quadrupling down on going further right, and that Nazi's power within the party is only growing as all the RINOs are driven out.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 11:49
|
|
|
The nazis ran in the primary. They showed up to vote for other nazis. They fund raised for the most nazi of the potential candidates, even if none of them were quite nazi enough. They talked to all their non nazi friends and got them to come to their nazi church if they could. They shared nazi poo poo on social media constantly and talked to all their family about how much we really need nazis right now. as a result, over 20 years, the republican party has moved in their direction. They didn't just refuse to vote until the republican party changed all by itself.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 12:24
|
|
|
Best Friends posted:there’s simply a lot more right republicans If you think there are more right Republicans than left Democrats (which, of course, you are completely correct about), insisting that we must have a leftist government, and completely refusing to participate otherwise, is just a wholesale rejection of democracy. Neurolimal posted:Pretty much. By design Leftism in the West has been constructed to be extremely divisive, fragmented, terrified of success, and without a history. That its ideas have as much support as it does is a testament to how enduring those ideas are, even when they're watered down and delegitimized. It's been built around make-work solutions and stripped of understanding of what actually makes change happen; Threat. Even if the left was "constructed" to be divisive, you don't have to indulge that "construction" by telling people not to vote for politicians that are to the left of the ones they are running against.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 12:48
|
|
|
Also, in a system that runs on money, donations and graft, nazi billionaires/multimillionaires funding entire factions is increasingly a thing, while 'leftist billionaire' is an unfunny joke.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 12:50
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:Pretty much. By design Leftism in the West has been constructed to be extremely divisive, fragmented, terrified of success, and without a history. That its ideas have as much support as it does is a testament to how enduring those ideas are, even when they're watered down and delegitimized. It's been built around make-work solutions and stripped of understanding of what actually makes change happen; Threat. leftism in the West is 30% secret policemen by weight which also doesn't help
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 12:54
|
|
|
Misunderstood posted:There is discussion on this very page of major gains being made in the union movement, and massive concessions won by the UAW, with plans to expand. This was done with the direct support of the President, who has supported unions for his entire 50-year career and walked the picket line with workers.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 12:58
|
|
|
Gort posted:leftism in the West is 30% secret policemen by weight which also doesn't help And no, anecdotes about the Cold War CIA don't count. It's 2023. In any case, we know for a fact that Feds embed themselves in far right groups (remember those idiots who went along with a "kidnap Gretchen Whitmer" plot some FBI guy roped them into?), and it doesn't stop the far right from being politically effective.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 12:58
|
|
|
Misunderstood posted:Do you have a citation for this? https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/15/undercover-police-spies-infiltrated-uk-leftwing-groups-for-decades quote:The list so far compiled, however, suggests police spies overwhelmingly monitored leftwing and progressive groups that challenged the status quo, with only three far-right groups infiltrated – the British National party, Combat 18 and the United British Alliance.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 13:18
|
|
|
Gort posted:https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/15/undercover-police-spies-infiltrated-uk-leftwing-groups-for-decades Just to be clear, this is UK related when we’re in USCE. But, I’ll go along with it: quote:At least 144 undercover officers are estimated to have been deployed to infiltrate political groups since 1968
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 13:21
|
|
|
Gort posted:https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/15/undercover-police-spies-infiltrated-uk-leftwing-groups-for-decades Kalit posted:If all of these groups only have a collective of ~500 people since 1968, I think they just might have a recruiting problem…
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 13:24
|
|
|
"leftism in the West" is what was discussed. But I'm sure there's plenty of similar stuff in the US.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 13:27
|
|
|
Gort posted:"leftism in the West" is what was discussed. But I'm sure there's plenty of similar stuff in the US. But the larger conversation is about voting in the US, and Democrats (and their contrast with Republicans, who we should be sure to mention in these discussions). Being "sure" there's "plenty of similar stuff in the US" is not really a demonstration thereof. One thing that makes a difference in the way the US and UK treat protest groups is the first amendment. No, the first amendment isn't (and can't be) treated as an absolute, and no, the government is not always appropriate with their restrictions on it, but it does make a huge difference in how law enforcement handles dissent.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 13:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 01:43 |
|
|
Misunderstood posted:Do you have a citation for this? Here's an Intercept article about a 2020 FBI op All of FBI history has shown that they're far more interested in spying on and destroying anyone even vaguely extra-liberal. Meanwhile their efforts to infiltrate the right are hamstrung by themselves being comprised of fascists and whores of capital. The number of domestic activists and organizers who have been killed by the US Government vs domestic right wing agitators is so unbalanced that to say it's exponentially greater is to under sell.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2023 13:38
|
|