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Pvt. Parts posted:Literally yes. Which may sound funny but for anyone actually looking to approach things systematically it's not nothing. Imagine someone on trial for a crime they admit to vs. someone who does not, very different situations and it should be obvious why to anyone trying to play third-party. Thanks, I understand your argument now (although I disagree with the second sentence).
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Oct 31, 2023 22:25
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https://x.com/muhammadshehad2/status/1719333402308927628?s=20 (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 31, 2023 22:27
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Pvt. Parts posted:It also brings credence to the idea that IDF can be a trusted voice on their bombing campaign if they admit to striking a refugee camp. Maybe that "Israeli airstrike" that hit that hospital parking lot that had 500 confirmed deaths not even a few hours later wasn't the doings of IDF, as they seem to be openly reporting their targets. And so on. I understand that he's currently probated, but I just want to point out:  There's no universe where Israel could ever deny this. Not even the most fantastical story of tunnels and air cannisters and ammo depots could sell this. They're admitting to it so they can try to get ahead of it, and say they killed Hamas members. Anyways, I came here to share this, which I suppose relates well enough: Military briefing: How Hamas fights quote:The examples were aplenty. In 2018, Hamas released images of Israeli soldiers in the crosshairs of its snipers — the shot never taken, even as the Israelis shot at protesters at the border fence. Another video showed militants destroying a military bus with a Kornet missile — but waiting for the soldiers to disembark and the driver to take a cigarette break. Have we considered the possibility that the IDF aren't lying constantly, but are in fact goldfish levels of stupid?
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Oct 31, 2023 22:43
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Neurolimal posted:I understand that he's currently probated, but I just want to point out: it's even more disgusting since they're only claiming to have killed one Hamas guy with this. theyre just too out of touch to know how to lie about this any more. like, gameshow contestant looking over their shoulder for audience approval, rapidly adjusting a dial that reads "War Crimes".
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Oct 31, 2023 22:47
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mannerup posted:there are (some) boots on the ground from the United States per The New York Times if their entire job is advice on hostage stuff, seems fine? presumably better than whatever the Israel-only process would be
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Oct 31, 2023 22:55
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Alchenar posted:40% support for the guy who's literal first act last time around was an actual muslim ban. A good chuck of Arab Americans are Arab Christians who were driven out of their communities during the collapse of the ottoman empire.
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Oct 31, 2023 23:09
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Per The Guardian's Live Ticker: https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...f089b59d570dbef 5m ago18.05 EDT US and Israel considering peacekeeping force in Gaza - report The US and Israel are considering the possibility of a multinational force that could include American, UK, French troops in the Gaza Strip, in the event that Israeli forces are successful in ousting Hamas, according to a report. US and Israeli officials exploring options for the future of Gaza have also discussed a second option that would establish a peacekeeping force modeled on one that oversees a 1979 Egypt-Israel peace treaty, Bloomberg reported, citing people familiar with the conversations. A third option would see Gaza put under temporary UN oversight, it said. The sources noted that the conversations are still at an early stage and much could change. The US secretary of state, Antony Blinken, alluded to the challenge of coming up with a plan for the future of Gaza when he addressed a Senate panel on Tuesday. “We can’t have a reversion to the status quo with Hamas running Gaza,” Blinken told the Senate appropriations committee. “We also can’t have — and the Israelis start with this proposition themselves — Israel running or controlling Gaza.” He added: Between those shoals are a variety of possible permutations that we’re looking at very closely now, as are other countries. _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Yeah that went real loving well in Iraq and Afghanistan didn't it? It's like Joe Biden is getting actively loving stupider the longer this goes on.
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Oct 31, 2023 23:13
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Google Jeb Bush posted:if their entire job is advice on hostage stuff, seems fine? presumably better than whatever the Israel-only process would be Little weird how often people in the US still brag about our hostage rescue teams being trained by the IDF these days.
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Oct 31, 2023 23:13
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karthun posted:A good chuck of Arab Americans are Arab Christians who were driven out of their communities during the collapse of the ottoman empire. I would imagine that very, very few Arab Americans had anything happen to them during the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. Maybe that's what happened to their ancestors, but thinking they're their ancestors is political malpractice.
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Oct 31, 2023 23:13
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"If Israel successfully cleanses Gaza it will become a base for the US and France to manage their colonial assets abroad" sounds like an excellent thing to announce if your goal is to ride the Houthi declaration into a fully regional war.
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Oct 31, 2023 23:17
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Jiro posted:Yeah that went real loving well in Iraq and Afghanistan didn't it? It's like Joe Biden is getting actively loving stupider the longer this goes on. The situation would be fundamentally different. Unlike in Iraq and Afghanistan, where it was essentially impossible to regulate the flow of fighters, weapons, and ammunition into the country, Gaza would represent a tiny area where all access into and out of the area can be tightly controlled provided that whoever ends up administering the strip has sufficient personnel to enforce borders and law and order. The question would be whether this third party has any ability to really impact the long-standing political, territorial, and economic issues of the Gaza Strip and whether they can win buy-in from the populace.
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Oct 31, 2023 23:22
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If the U.S. and U.N. are willing to fit the bill on rebuilding Gaza, and that includes making Gaza self sufficient, with clean water, and electricity, that Israel cant just turn off at a moments notice, then I can see that being good. But I suspect that will not happen, and Palestinians will just suffer even harder. Another requirement should be that Palestinians get free movement into Israel, and no more wall around the city.
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Oct 31, 2023 23:23
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MikeC posted:The situation would be fundamentally different. Unlike in Iraq and Afghanistan, where it was essentially impossible to regulate the flow of fighters, weapons, and ammunition into the country, Gaza would represent a tiny area where all access into and out of the area can be tightly controlled provided that whoever ends up administering the strip has sufficient personnel to enforce borders and law and order. The question would be whether this third party has any ability to really impact the long-standing political, territorial, and economic issues of the Gaza Strip and whether they can win buy-in from the populace. it's just going to end up being the US enforcing peace in Gaza while settlers in the west bank continue cleansing the area right?
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Oct 31, 2023 23:24
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Just a reminder of how far the US's rhetoric has shifted regarding Israel: https://twitter.com/YousefMunayyer/status/1719417687674163453
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Oct 31, 2023 23:26
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MikeC posted:The situation would be fundamentally different. Unlike in Iraq and Afghanistan, where it was essentially impossible to regulate the flow of fighters, weapons, and ammunition into the country, Gaza would represent a tiny area where all access into and out of the area can be tightly controlled provided that whoever ends up administering the strip has sufficient personnel to enforce borders and law and order. The question would be whether this third party has any ability to really impact the long-standing political, territorial, and economic issues of the Gaza Strip and whether they can win buy-in from the populace. don't worry, this time the war will be over before Christmas This is pure loving arrogance.
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Oct 31, 2023 23:29
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I said come in! posted:If the U.S. and U.N. are willing to fit the bill on rebuilding Gaza, and that includes making Gaza self sufficient, with clean water, and electricity, that Israel cant just turn off at a moments notice, then I can see that being good. But I suspect that will not happen, and Palestinians will just suffer even harder. Soo.. nation building?
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Oct 31, 2023 23:29
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TGLT posted:don't worry, this time the war will be over before Christmas the idf is collapsing according to twitter so yes
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Oct 31, 2023 23:31
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When's the last time the United States actually rebuilt a state/city/country that they had a significant hand in destroying? Are they still pushing that "what if Belt-And-Road, but entirely privatized by US grifters" plan? Pitching out there a cooperation between the United States, the United Kingdom, and France feels like someone was taking the piss and brainstorming what the perfect storm of countries that the rest of the world hates would be. Good news! All the colonial powers got together to make you a BIG birthday cake! They're also all the ones that most eagerly endorsed Israel bombing your city to the ground! It's pure fantasy building either way, seeing as Israel is taking significant vehicle losses, are incredibly reluctant to actually invade Gaza on-foot, and now have two armies bombing them (one of which just bypassed their air raid sirens), but it's still incredibly comical, and probably speaks to how thin-skinned Israel is. Turkey would be the obvious answer for "Arab state that is aligned with the West but has clout in the Middle East, and has a sizable army & economy to support reconstruction & defense", but they've performed the bare minimum of pushback against the genocide, so I imagine they were wiped off the list early on.
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Oct 31, 2023 23:32
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Pvt. Parts posted:It also brings credence to the idea that IDF can be a trusted voice on their bombing campaign if they admit to striking a refugee camp. Maybe that "Israeli airstrike" that hit that hospital parking lot that had 500 confirmed deaths not even a few hours later wasn't the doings of IDF, as they seem to be openly reporting their targets. And so on. Completely absurd logic. Admitting to one atrocity which they very obviously committed does not mean they are not lying constantly about other ones, especially the airstrike where they tried multiple explanations that were shown to be false. This undermines your entire argument of just looking for the facts. The IDF should be treated as an extremely unreliable source if not disregarded altogether.
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Oct 31, 2023 23:34
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Neurolimal posted:When's the last time the United States actually rebuilt a state/city/country that they had a significant hand in destroying? Are they still pushing that "what if Belt-And-Road, but entirely privatized by US grifters" plan? Atlanta, GA and even then they kind of gave up at that and a lot of the American South still hasn't recovered.
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Oct 31, 2023 23:35
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Pobrecito posted:Just a reminder of how far the US's rhetoric has shifted regarding Israel: Jesus christ when even George Bush is more human than god drat Biden. I cannot loving fathom how democrats thought this senile gently caress was the best option.
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Oct 31, 2023 23:37
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MikeC posted:The situation would be fundamentally different. Unlike in Iraq and Afghanistan, where it was essentially impossible to regulate the flow of fighters, weapons, and ammunition into the country, Gaza would represent a tiny area where all access into and out of the area can be tightly controlled provided that whoever ends up administering the strip has sufficient personnel to enforce borders and law and order. Do you think Israel has not tried to prevent weapons and ammunition from entering Gaza or do you think they have tried and have been successful (in which case I have many other questions)? Or is there some American can-do magic that would make them better at this than Israel?
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Oct 31, 2023 23:39
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Jiro posted:Yeah that went real loving well in Iraq and Afghanistan didn't it? It's like Joe Biden is getting actively loving stupider the longer this goes on. Thinking it's a good idea for America to deploy a ton of ground troops to occupy and pacify a populace that just saw their whole world and families destroyed by our client state should be grounds for invoking the 25th Amendment. I'm really hoping this is just the natsec blob floating some bullshit trial balloon because the idea so loving stupid the idea anyone in the WH takes it seriously is terrifying.
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Oct 31, 2023 23:42
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mannerup fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Nov 5, 2023 |
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Oct 31, 2023 23:45
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MikeC posted:The situation would be fundamentally different. Unlike in Iraq and Afghanistan, where it was essentially impossible to regulate the flow of fighters, weapons, and ammunition into the country, Gaza would represent a tiny area where all access into and out of the area can be tightly controlled provided that whoever ends up administering the strip has sufficient personnel to enforce borders and law and order. The question would be whether this third party has any ability to really impact the long-standing political, territorial, and economic issues of the Gaza Strip and whether they can win buy-in from the populace. Just like the fantastic success Israel had controlling the flow of fighters, weapons and ammunition into the country for the last 20 years with complete control of all the borders but the one with Egypt!
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Nov 1, 2023 00:00
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https://x.com/derspiegel/status/1715336949932974577?s=20 tl;dr - No paywall. Former Israeli PM interview. Completely destroys Netanyahu, he explains why and despite the war wants still wants a two-state solution.
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Nov 1, 2023 00:04
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Pobrecito posted:Just a reminder of how far the US's rhetoric has shifted regarding Israel: Seems like the people with the most horrid views on the ME managed to join the Biden administration, because how else would you explain this change?
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Nov 1, 2023 00:16
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MikeC posted:The situation would be fundamentally different. Unlike in Iraq and Afghanistan, where it was essentially impossible to regulate the flow of fighters, weapons, and ammunition into the country, Gaza would represent a tiny area where all access into and out of the area can be tightly controlled provided that whoever ends up administering the strip has sufficient personnel to enforce borders and law and order. The question would be whether this third party has any ability to really impact the long-standing political, territorial, and economic issues of the Gaza Strip and whether they can win buy-in from the populace. Because Israel had such an uneventful time occupying Gaza the last time around. E: Ehud Barak is a noted war criminal responsible for the deaths of thousands of Palestinians. Shageletic fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Nov 1, 2023 |
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Nov 1, 2023 00:21
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Pobrecito posted:Just a reminder of how far the US's rhetoric has shifted regarding Israel: Is this the same Bush who said Israel are a chosen people who can forever count on US support against their enemies Hamas and Iran? So, no, it hadn't really shifted
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Nov 1, 2023 00:30
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Shageletic posted:E: Ehud Barak is a noted war criminal responsible for the deaths of thousands of Palestinians. Yeah there's not much interesting there, other than the fact that he's slightly to the left of Netanyahu in that he makes lip service at a 2 state solution. He's happy to justify murdering civilians.
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Nov 1, 2023 00:30
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Alchenar posted:Just like the fantastic success Israel had controlling the flow of fighters, weapons and ammunition into the country for the last 20 years with complete control of all the borders but the one with Egypt! Are there many foreigners among Hamas fighters in Gaza? Do they have tanks or other armoured vehicles? How many rockets that are not made of pipes and fertiliser do they have? How many fighters are equipped with something better than a 50-year-old AK-47 and patriotic zeal? Do they have access to a sizeable fleet of drones? To my knowledge, answers to all those questions indicate that Israel was indeed successful in controlling the flow of fighters, weapons, and ammunition. This heavily editorialised CNN article that tries to portray Hamas' arsenal as seriously dangerous only shows that their equipment is mostly obsolete, and whatever new stuff they managed to smuggle from Iran is not available in large numbers. https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/13/middleeast/hamas-weapons-invs/index.html Hamas had the element of surprise on their side on Oct 7, but they only have their tunnels and general advantage from being on the defence in urban combat. It doesn't look like either Hezbollah oh Houthis managed to inflict any considerable damage on Israel, so it remains to be seen if their involvement will result in anything tangible.
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Nov 1, 2023 00:34
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Alchenar posted:Just like the fantastic success Israel had controlling the flow of fighters, weapons and ammunition into the country for the last 20 years with complete control of all the borders but the one with Egypt! Shageletic posted:Because Israel had such an uneventful time occupying Gaza the last time around. Plus others: This is why I specifically say that buy-in from the populace is important with respect to whatever this hypothetical new governance arrangement will be, and that requires whoever ends up controlling Gaza to produce advancements on the issues mentioned. Israel never could get buy-in from the Arab population. The odds of this third party achieving the latter of course is slim while Israel continues to enjoy seemingly international limitless immunity to its agenda. The point of the post was to counter the assertion that just because Afghanistan and Iraq ended in failure (Iraq isn't a total basket case today) doesn't mean a third party coming in is doomed by default. ISAF managed to gain control of a huge swath of Afghanistan and get significant buy-in from major segments of the Afghan population before mass corruption from the Afghan government soured the goodwill while the safe haven of the Pakistani tribal regions allowed the Taliban to regroup and rearm for several years before their major return in the summer of '07. If a third party could get similar buy-in and both the Egyptians and Israelis assist in border controls in good faith then there is no reason to assume a degree of success to be impossible, apriori. Gaza will likely never be solved by either the Palestinians or Israelis alone.
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Nov 1, 2023 00:39
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Any plan like that needs involvement from regional Arab governments too or else it will just be one group handing the keys of the concentration camp to another in an attempt to legitimize the genocide.
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Nov 1, 2023 00:49
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moreover I'm extremely curious how the gently caress they would get anyone to agree to take on some of that responsibility after Israel has finished spending 6 months or whatever reducing Gaza to rubble
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Nov 1, 2023 00:54
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Herstory Begins Now posted:moreover I'm extremely curious how the gently caress they would get anyone to agree to take on some of that responsibility after Israel has finished spending 6 months or whatever reducing Gaza to rubble It would be extremely expensive, and U.S. Congress would push back extremely hard on that.
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Nov 1, 2023 01:02
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I said come in! posted:It would be extremely expensive, and U.S. Congress would push back extremely hard on that. can't wait to hear republicans talk about how joe biden's military will be enforcing mandatory wokeness on the gaza strip
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Nov 1, 2023 01:12
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Pobrecito posted:Just a reminder of how far the US's rhetoric has shifted regarding Israel: It's worth noting that the Israel/Palestine situation was substantially different at the time, which influenced the political considerations. At the time, a lot of foreign policy folks were still riding high on managing to negotiate the Oslo Accords, and thought that we were thiiiiiiiiis close to having a final Israel-Palestine peace deal that solved the conflict forever. Clinton and Bush both really wanted to be the president whose name went down in history as ending the Israel/Palestine conflict forever. So although they were still firmly and obviously on Israel's side, they loudly urged the Israelis to not do anything that might offend the Palestinian negotiators too badly. Of course, the Israelis didn't give a poo poo and did it anyway while US diplomats limply protested, which led to the Second Intifada. Around the time this happened, the US was desperately trying to get Arafat to end the intifada and come back to the negotiating table, so they were extra interested in not looking too biased. Once Arafat died and was replaced by Abbas, a spineless loser who desperately needed foreign backing to shore up his own weak domestic position, the US dropped any pretense of sympathy. Crosby B. Alfred posted:https://x.com/derspiegel/status/1715336949932974577?s=20 As Netanyahu's Minister of Defense at the time, Ehud Barak was directly responsible for totally blockading Gaza, turning it into an open-air prison, and carrying out the first anti-Hamas military invasion of Gaza. This motherfucker is in no position to talk poo poo about anyone. The thing about the two-state solution is that just because someone says they want a two-state solution, that doesn't mean they actually want a remotely reasonable or realistic two-state solution. You always have to ask about the details, and this ultra-softball interview didn't pressure him on that or literally anything else.
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Nov 1, 2023 01:21
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eke out posted:can't wait to hear republicans talk about how joe biden's military will be enforcing mandatory wokeness on the gaza strip GOP will say that, and simultaneously complain about Biden not exporting the entirety of the US military industrial complex's production to Israel with "do whatever you want" tags attached. In conclusion, America is a land of dumb contradictions. 10 years ago Obama would have pushed for the US to govern the strip as the "reasonable" player and it would have happened, and locked the US in an additional decade of Middle East occupation. The old guard of US politics will still push for that today but it is already blowing up in their face before they even get it off the drawing board. The UN is the only agency I can imagine with the ability and will to take over governance for whatever's left of Gaza after this. Unless Israel does just say screw it and fully annex the territory after killing or displacing all residents. Which is insane and unlikely, but the wheels are flying off the last 30 years of the world's status quo so who the hell knows.
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Nov 1, 2023 01:23
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In a show of solidarity The Egyptian Prime minister has said his county is ready to sacrifice millions of lives to......................keep Palestinians out of Egypt. https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/is...6KFfn4RsltJ3PYe
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Nov 1, 2023 01:25
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mannerup posted:I think Trump has already narrowed his domestic messaging on the issue, but I can't rule out him posting some absolute bangers about Bibi calling him and begging him like a dog for advice on how to make Hezbollah target Iran with their beautiful missiles instead and how Bibi is only prime minister because of Trump's 2013 endorsement. I don't see the asterisk for Jamal Khashoggi. What kind of a weakling piece of poo poo would let a scumfuck terrorist country like Saudi Arabia (home to 80% of the 9/11 hijackers!) just murder and cut up an American citizen and do nothing about it? I bet it was BIDEN who did that feckless cowardly poo poo, no way TRUMP would do something that pathetically gutless.
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Nov 1, 2023 01:47
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