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Google Jeb Bush posted:I've been pretty sus of it the last couple times it's come up. Do you have a particular corroborating link or two or something I can review? Google Jeb Bush posted:Yeah that'll do. Preemptive "please don't post memri translations" while I haul this to the dnd mod hive mind. I/we will probably note it in the OP soon. So i wanted to wait to respond about the Hamas/Memri video that i posted to see if there was going to be any replies about the veracity of the translation, and i haven't seen anyone dispute the translation yet. 1) Searching twitter for the Hamas spokesman's name gives a ton of the top tweets related to him and i don't see anyone saying it was mistranslated https://twitter.com/search?q=Ghazi%20Hamad&src=typed_query 2) Here's an article about that video by haaretz, easily israel's only liberal/leftwing newspaper who basically translated the exact same thing as what i said in my original post about the spokesman. It seems haaretz is respected here enough here that they wouldn't repeat these quotes if they were lies, right?: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...9b-ebdfbee90000 quote:Hamas Official: We Will Repeat October 7 Attacks Until Israel Is Annihilated quote:A senior Hamas official said in an interview aired last week that the October 7 attack against Israel were just the beginning, vowing to launch "a second, a third, a fourth" attack until the country is "annihilated." quote:Israel has no place on our land. We must remove the country because it constitutes a security, military and political catastrophe." quote:"we must teach Israel a lesson, and we will do this again and again." quote:Hamas did not want to harm civilians, but there were complications on the ground." Hamad added that "everything we do is justified." 3) Are we going to apply the same standards to papers like the New York times who unironically repeated the lie from hamas that a) israel bombed the hospital in gaza b) that there were 500 killed and c) used a completely different photo of a completely bombed out building that was not the hospital in question instead of the hospital parking lot that was incinerated? Also, don't forget the attempts by the posters in this thread to try to act like they're investigating the JFK assassination with wild conspiracy theories about how it actually was israel who fired the missle into the hospital and doing their own version of the 2nd shooter on the grassy knoll.
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Nov 2, 2023 14:20
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On the other side of the wall, and still related to Oct 7, Middle East Eye claims to have talked to a couple of Hamas sources, some of the more interesting details:quote:Hamas said they also needed time to collect all the hostages, who are spread throughout Gaza and held by different militant groups and others who followed Hamas into southern Israel after the Israeli army’s Gaza Division collapsed. Opinion on MEE is unnecessary; if they're a biased outlet with Hamas/Palestinian ties, then that only makes it more likely that these are Hamas' stances. So to summarize them: - They still stand by their defense that other groups besides Hamas escaped at the same time, and caused chaos. - They are using that defense to inform the hostage situation; hostages obtained are spread between multiple sects and groups, hostage deal would take some time to implement, if one ever surfaces. - Two deals on the table: All for All, or Women/Children/Foreigners for X Palestinians - Allege that the vast majority of the Hamas forces it sent into Israel returned alive. Possibly bullshit, though worth noting that at least one instance of the IDF stripping a group of 'Hamas operatives' nude and then executing them turned out to be regular Palestinian workers, so it's hard to judge how many of their trophy tweets and instagrams and etc were actually Hamas soldiers. - They expected 20-30 hostages. - They expected IDF forces to show up much sooner; they had a list of military targets to hit before retreating, but they burnt through all their military targets and were still in fighting shape, and then groups started targeting anything else nearby. - Mohammed Deif allegedly said not to target women/children/elderly, that only uniformed irregulars were Hamas. - Israel and the USA are apparently still in panic mode behind the scenes, pushing Qatar to disown Hamas contacts despite the fact that these contacts are only beneficial to Israel and the USA. - Israel took a swing at Qatar, then immediately backtracked when they threatened the hostage negotiations.
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Nov 2, 2023 14:24
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i see the zionists are the point where the NY Times is too unfairly biased against Israel to trust anymore lol
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Nov 2, 2023 14:24
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eke out posted:yeah there is a small percentage of the population that believes that insane millenarian poo poo, but it's dwarfed by conservatives that just like Israel because it's a far-right religious state that we have been allies with forever and also all that bible stuff you mention above. I wish it was at least disregardably small, but it's a big ol chunk of evangelicals, and even more deeply universally embedded in evangelical leadership. And, consequently our government, whole states are managed by millenarian "boy i sure hope i get to watch war in Isreal being back Jesus and the apocalypse, let's help that along" psychos Neurolimal posted:The Houthis have formally joined the war; they complimented this with a drone strike that hit Eliat without triggering any air raid sirens. The Houthis have quite a bit of experience winning against Western equipment & wanton slaughter, hopefully they escalate further. "Hopefully" lol this place
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Nov 2, 2023 14:26
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punishedkissinger posted:i see the zionists are the point where the NY Times is too unfairly biased against Israel to trust anymore lol Oh this is nothing new, it happens every time Israel's in the news. Reminiscent of when the NYT was decried as antisemitic for publishing articles about the horrible educating and outright fraud at private Hasidic schools in NYC. I've had people say to my face that Haaretz is antisemitic. Staluigi posted:"Hopefully" lol this place Just to make sure, these are the same Houthis whose official motto and flag say "God is the greatest, Death to America, Death to Israel, Curse on the Jews, Victory to Islam"? Civilized Fishbot fucked around with this message at 14:38 on Nov 2, 2023 |
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Nov 2, 2023 14:28
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Mister Fister posted:3) Are we going to apply the same standards to papers like the New York times who unironically repeated the lie from hamas that a) israel bombed the hospital in gaza Since it apparently didn't penetrate the last time, I would like to again repeat that Israel has not released a new claim on what blew up the hospital parking lot, and the last video they pointed to has since been discredited by the New York Times' investigation. Not even Israel is keeping up the charade anymore. quote:b) that there were 500 killed The Ministry of Health has since posted an extensive and exhaustingly detailed list of everyone who had died in the conflict up to that point, which factored in the 500 killed; these names were provided with ID. Staluigi posted:"Hopefully" lol this place I'd prefer if Israel is forced to end its invasion and mass-bombing (I might also add that, as if to spite international response, they bombed the Jabalia Refugee Camp two more times since the backlash). That's going to require a threat more significant than the backlash ending the war would cause. That threat is not going to come from the US, and the US is holding the rest of the world back. That necessitates that, instead, Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis are successful in preventing a genocide.
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Nov 2, 2023 14:34
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NovemberMike posted:No, I asked what colonies came from ideologies. And I meant in a way that's completely divorced from a parent nation-state. Libertarians in New Hampshire? Sea stedders? Suburbia? Divorcing the colony from the state means you're asking for examples for displacement without the power to perform it.
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Nov 2, 2023 15:02
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Neurolimal posted:Since it apparently didn't penetrate the last time, I would like to again repeat that Israel has not released a new claim on what blew up the hospital parking lot, and the last video they pointed to has since been discredited by the New York Times' investigation. Not even Israel is keeping up the charade anymore. What does this have to do with the claim you’re responding to? Hell, even NYT backtracked and admitted they relied too much on claims from Hamas: https://www.instagram.com/p/Cyvf6ZmxhV3/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA%3D%3D
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Nov 2, 2023 15:05
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Kalit posted:What does this have to do with the claim you’re responding to? It wasn't a "lie from Hamas", it was the actual truth, as anyone capable of basic pattern recognition would have guessed. That Israel chose this specific tragedy of 500 out of the 7000+ dead Palestinians at the time to temporarily dispute, is not on the NYT. The obsession with "impartial language" at the expense of truth is a great example of the quest for Objectivity being weaponized. The lesson to be learned from this is that a nation's army with a history of lying in the past, blatantly lying, shouldn't have this level of pull. quote:Hell, even NYT backtracked and admitted they relied too much on Hamas’ word: https://www.instagram.com/p/Cyvf6ZmxhV3/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA%3D%3D The only thing they needed to apologize for was getting browbeaten away from the original, correct headline. Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Nov 2, 2023 |
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Nov 2, 2023 15:10
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The hospital bombing which killed hundreds of people somehow being a Hamas rocket has always been a wingnut conspiracy theory. It has been thoroughly discredited by non-IDF sources and we should never have entertained it to begin with given what we know about Israel's attitude towards bombing civilians. they've been saturation bombing a refugee camp for the past couple days ffs.
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Nov 2, 2023 15:12
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It's true that that one piece of video evidence was shown to be unrelated. The evidence we have still points to it being a Palestinian rocket though, particularly the mysterious disappearance of all physical remains of the explosive from the scene (which Hamas had control of).
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Nov 2, 2023 15:15
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Irony Be My Shield posted:It's true that that one piece of video evidence was shown to be unrelated. The evidence we have still points to it being a Palestinian rocket though, particularly the mysterious disappearance of all physical remains of the explosive from the scene (which Hamas had control of). The video IDF and defenders of the "misfired PIJ rocket" claim point to shows the rocket disintegrating. There wouldn't have been enough rocket fuel to set off the explosion seen. Anyway the civilian death toll in Gaza is likely to eclipse the Ukrainian civilian death toll for a war that's lasted more than a year and a half within the next week. I don't see how anyone would take issue with someone hoping outside parties intervene militarily to halt Israel's slaughter. Groovelord Neato fucked around with this message at 15:20 on Nov 2, 2023 |
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Nov 2, 2023 15:16
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I have a piece of the rocket I will sell you
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Nov 2, 2023 15:18
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Neurolimal posted:It wasn't a "lie from Hamas", it was the actual truth, as anyone capable of basic pattern recognition would have guessed. That Israel chose this specific tragedy of 500 out of the 7000+ dead Palestinians at the time to temporarily dispute, is not on the NYT. It absolutely was a lie from Hamas, they claimed that the hospital was the target. It only came out later that the bomb was adjacent to the hospital. Unless you want to claim that Israel tried to hit the hospital but somehow failed, I guess Also, I didn’t realize there was definitive proof on whose bomb that was. Can you please provide a source demonstrating this proof?
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Nov 2, 2023 15:20
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yes what a huge lie, they claimed the hospital was targeted, but it was only the parking lot/courtyard of the hospital!!!! I'm going to again, go out on a limb, and assume that the nation with munitions capable of killing hundreds of people at once is the one responsible for killing hundreds of people with one munition.
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Nov 2, 2023 15:23
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Irony Be My Shield posted:It's true that that one piece of video evidence was shown to be unrelated. The evidence we have still points to it being a Palestinian rocket though, particularly the mysterious disappearance of all physical remains of the explosive from the scene (which Hamas had control of). I'm interested in seeing this evidence that has not been contested by: The New York Times Al-Jazeera English Channel 4 Forensic Architecture (Preliminary) That is also not immediately discredited by either an incorrect timestamp or literally showing the hospital smoking before rockets are fired. Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Nov 2, 2023 |
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Nov 2, 2023 15:24
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Out of curiosity, what is it about the Al-Ahil story that fascinates people so much? Is it because people need proof that Israel is conducting a slaughter of the residents of Gaza safely and securely from the air? Is it because people need a fig leaf to show there are depths of civilian slaughter to which Israel will not sink? Why is the story so compelling to people, like what difference does it make?
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Nov 2, 2023 15:25
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Stringent posted:Out of curiosity, what is it about the Al-Ahil story that fascinates people so much? It's another example of Israel lying. They've so lazily forged evidence multiple times in this conflict and they shouldn't be allowed to get away with it any time they do it. You already see a change in reporting afterwards - headlines were calling the bombing of the refugee camp a "blast" or "explosion" prior to the IDF admitting they did it. If they hadn't admitted to it it'd probably still be reported as a he said she said. Same thing happened when they bombed the church. It was obviously Israel but the reporting was a "blast" or "explosion". Then to exonerate themselves they show a video where they say oh we were targeting across the street showing them directly hitting a building in the church complex. Groovelord Neato fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Nov 2, 2023 |
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Nov 2, 2023 15:28
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Kalit posted:It absolutely was a lie from Hamas, they claimed that the hospital was the target. It only came out later that the bomb was adjacent to the hospital. Unless you want to claim that Israel tried to hit the hospital but somehow failed, I guess It hit the refugee camp occupying the courtyard and car park at the centre of the hospital complex, which was specifically there as a designated refugee shelter protected under international law. Please demonstrate a more basic grasp of the facts if you want to accuse anyone of lying.
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Nov 2, 2023 15:28
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Irony Be My Shield posted:It's true that that one piece of video evidence was shown to be unrelated. The evidence we have still points to it being a Palestinian rocket though, particularly the mysterious disappearance of all physical remains of the explosive from the scene (which Hamas had control of). From what I understand an Israeli DIME munition could have produced that effect on a small, densely packed crowd, without leaving much at all in the way of explosive remnants.
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Nov 2, 2023 15:30
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Stringent posted:Out of curiosity, what is it about the Al-Ahil story that fascinates people so much? TBH, I wonder the same thing about people who need to prove that this was most definitely Israel’s bomb. I think everyone can agree that regardless whose bomb it was, Israel’s at least partially/mostly responsible for it. Even if it was a misfired rocket from within Gaza  Darth Walrus posted:It hit the refugee camp occupying the courtyard and car park at the centre of the hospital complex, which was specifically there as a designated refugee shelter protected under international law. Please demonstrate a more basic grasp of the facts if you want to accuse anyone of lying. Yes. Which is not the hospital. Which was initially claimed. Those are the facts
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Nov 2, 2023 15:33
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Stringent posted:Out of curiosity, what is it about the Al-Ahil story that fascinates people so much? The IDF apologists went to the mat trying to blame Hamas with a series of claims by the IDF. First a video that turned out to be from several years ago, then a phone call which turned out to be completely fabricated and full of broken Arabic and finally with another video that has been completely discredited by the NY Times. They are now claiming that it was still Hamas because there's no evidence that it wasn't Hamas. These are not reasonable or serious thinkers we're dealing with.
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Nov 2, 2023 15:35
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Stringent posted:Out of curiosity, what is it about the Al-Ahil story that fascinates people so much? A parade of people insist on reheating the same discredited hypotheticals for a major mass casualty event that lacked even plausible deniability. Often using discredited evidence to argue directly against the refutation of that same evidence.
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Nov 2, 2023 15:37
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punishedkissinger posted:The IDF apologists went to the mat trying to blame Hamas with a series of claims by the IDF. First a video that turned out to be from several years ago, then a phone call which turned out to be completely fabricated and full of broken Arabic and finally with another video that has been completely discredited by the NY Times. They are now claiming that it was still Hamas because there's no evidence that it wasn't Hamas. These are not reasonable or serious thinkers we're dealing with. Actually they blamed a misfired Palestinian Islamic Jihad rocket - the same thing they blamed for their murder of 5 children during the last Gaza bombardment until they admitted it was them weeks later when nobody was paying attention. People were sharing videos claiming to be that misfired rocket all over Twitter at the time too.
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Nov 2, 2023 15:39
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The long and short of it is that Israel has invested so much into this specific bombing that it's become a trial of sorts for Israel's credibility in general. Either Israel did it, and they've spent an incredible amount of time repeatedly lying to the public, the press, and their own allies; Or Palestine is lying, in which case you're now free to accuse every tragic bombing of being an Ahli-Arab scenario. Whether or not a definitive answer that cannot ever be contested by Israel shows up, and whether or not it would even see enough coverage to matter, is another story. Israel seems to want it to fade away at this point, otherwise they'd be loading up Audacity again.
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Nov 2, 2023 15:40
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I think it would be better to move on and focus on the many war crimes that were definitely done by Israel (such as the multiple strikes against Jabalia) rather than going back and trying to argue the facts on the one where there is substantial evidence suggesting it was not them. Look at how rattled those IDF spokesmen are when talking about Jabalia, compared to Al-Ahli where they can point to the missing evidence at the scene, the fact that the damage caused by the blast is not consistent with an Israelli airstrike etc.Neurolimal posted:I'm interested in seeing this evidence that has not been contested by: quote:Hamas told the New York Times that the missile had disintegrated beyond recognition. "The missile has dissolved like salt in the water. It's vaporised. Nothing is left," said Ghazi Hamad, a senior Hamas official. Hieronymous Alloy posted:From what I understand an Israeli DIME munition could have produced that effect on a small, densely packed crowd, without leaving much at all in the way of explosive remnants. https://www.wired.com/2009/01/mystery-weapon/ Irony Be My Shield fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Nov 2, 2023 |
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Nov 2, 2023 15:42
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Main Paineframe posted:Based on the known casualty counts so far, Israel has done the equivalent of eight 10/7s over the past three-ish weeks. If 10/7s are bad for peace, then Israel is certainly doing plenty to prevent peace. I don't agree with the response from Israel but the point is Hamas isn't looking for peace. Main Paineframe posted:That said, when a faction currently under heavy military assault says that they're going to do more 10/7s, what that means for peace very much depends on context (which is why the clear signs of editing in the MEMRI clip are important). If he were actually saying that no amount of military force would prevent them from doing more 10/7s, and that Israel must bring them to the negotiating table if they want peace, then that would in fact encourage peace. Granted, I doubt he would have actually explicitly said the second part of that under the current circumstances, but it does overall line up with Hamas' clear strategy to force Israel to the negotiating table by being a major pain in the rear end and demonstrating that only negotiations will make the pain go away. https://x.com/ArmandDoma/status/1719738583089824086?s=20 Is this modified in anyway that that is misleading or inaccurate because I don't think it is and if it is I'd like to know the correct translation. I struggle to understand how Hamas publicly stating that they are gonna keep kidnapping, torturing, raping and killing is somehow going to reduce violence or that that will lead to some kind of negotiation especially one with a larger power vs one much, much smaller.
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Nov 2, 2023 15:43
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Mister Fister posted:3) Are we going to apply the same standards to papers like the New York times who unironically repeated the lie from hamas that a) israel bombed the hospital in gaza b) that there were 500 killed and c) used a completely different photo of a completely bombed out building that was not the hospital in question instead of the hospital parking lot that was incinerated? Also, don't forget the attempts by the posters in this thread to try to act like they're investigating the JFK assassination with wild conspiracy theories about how it actually was israel who fired the missle into the hospital and doing their own version of the 2nd shooter on the grassy knoll. Israel did fire the missile, though. Multiple investigations have debunked the misfired rocket explanation given by the IDF. Reik fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Nov 2, 2023 |
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Nov 2, 2023 15:45
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Kalit posted:TBH, I wonder the same thing about people who need to prove that this was most definitely Israel’s bomb. I think everyone can agree that regardless whose bomb it was, Israel’s at least partially/mostly responsible for it. Even if it was a misfired rocket from within Gaza 'The refugee camp in the hospital complex (which was created precisely in order to shelter people within internationally-protected hospital grounds) is not the hospital' is a really exciting definition of 'fact' you're choosing to run with here. This is a really useful example of why people get hung up on al-Ahli - allowing these kinds of gleefully bad-faith distortions of reality to go unaddressed is extremely bad for our understanding of the reality of the conflict, and encourages racists and useful idiots to cloud even more of the IDF's most extreme atrocities behind a veil of 'controversy'. Darth Walrus fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Nov 2, 2023 |
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Nov 2, 2023 15:46
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:I don't agree with the response from Israel but the point is Hamas isn't looking for peace. Of course they aren't looking for peace - the only reason they exist and ever gained power was because Israel isn't. Nothing Hamas officials say is going to lead to a ceasefire.
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Nov 2, 2023 15:50
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Irony Be My Shield posted:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67216929 Considering the fact that five hundred people in the courtyard died, I can absolutely assume that whatever scraps or particulate were displaced in the mad dash to find survivors, attend to the dead, clean up the area for new incoming refugees, etc. In any case, I don't think Hamas saying "we don't have any shrapnel" is as much a smoking gun as lying several times over about a weapon that has caused exponentially more damage than a Hamas weapon ever has, while also having shelled the same hospital three days prior, while conducting airstrikes on other targets in the same area, prior to blowing up a refugee camp and causing another bundle of deaths. With all due respect considering the massive death toll of the war and the destruction it's wrought, the onus should probably be on the army actually capable of killing 500 people with one blast, to prove they didn't do it again. This isn't a court of law, and nobody involved is going to ever see the inside of one; we do not need to abide by "Innocent Until Proven Guilty".
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Nov 2, 2023 15:52
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Darth Walrus posted:'The refugee camp in the hospital complex (which was created precisely in order to shelter people within internationally-protected hospital grounds) is not the hospital' is a really exciting definition of 'fact' you're choosing to run with here. Let me see if an analogy will help you understand. Pretend that someone made a home insurance claim and stated that their house burned down. But then when the adjuster made a visit out to the site, the house itself was fine, it was a detached shed that got burned down. Would you say that this person did or did not lie to the insurance company? E VVVVVV: It’s an analogy, of course it’s not the exact same situation? Kalit fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Nov 2, 2023 |
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Nov 2, 2023 15:59
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Kalit posted:Let me see if an analogy will help you understand. Pretend that someone made a home insurance claim and stated that their house burned down. But then when the adjuster made a visit out to the site, the house itself was fine, it was a detached shed that got burned down. Would you say that this person did or did not lie to the insurance company? in this case, hundreds of people were documented to have been killed by the courtyard blast. A better metaphor would be "my house has been hit by an explosion" and then you show up and you're like "ahh yes but clearly only the front door was hit by an explosion". punishedkissinger fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Nov 2, 2023 |
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Nov 2, 2023 16:01
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Irony Be My Shield posted:
Because many see/view what they want to hear, and despite there being little evidence of bomb particles (suggesting a clean up), it being not a direct hit, and lack of corroborating reliable evidence on the ground, it should be far from settled. The retrading on this hospital bombing is because many want to prove intent that the IDF is targeting civilian hospitals. Neurolimal posted:Considering the fact that five hundred people in the courtyard died, I can absolutely assume that whatever scraps or particulate were displaced in the mad dash to find survivors, attend to the dead, clean up the area for new incoming refugees, etc. So you have literally admitted having absolutely no evidence and this is all based on assumption. quote:In any case, I don't think Hamas saying "we don't have any shrapnel" is as much a smoking gun as lying several times over about a weapon that has caused exponentially more damage than a Hamas weapon ever has, while also having shelled the same hospital three days prior, while conducting airstrikes on other targets in the same area, prior to blowing up a refugee camp and causing another bundle of deaths. Again, you are arguing in completely bad faith in this regard because you're straight up saying that Hamas statements deserve benefit of the doubt while the IDF should be regarded as guilty war criminals from the first position. i fly airplanes fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Nov 2, 2023 |
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Nov 2, 2023 16:03
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i fly airplanes posted:Because many see/view what they want to hear, and despite there being little evidence of bomb particles (suggesting a clean up), it being not a direct hit, and lack of corroborating reliable evidence on the ground, it should be far from settled. The retrading on this hospital bombing is because many want to prove intent that the IDF is targeting civilian hospitals. But they are targeting civilian hospitals? Are you saying that Israel is not bombing civilian hospitals?
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Nov 2, 2023 16:04
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We don't have strong reliable evidence on who was responsible for the hospital explosion either way. What little evidence exists is quite sketchy and incomplete, but the political importance of the event has led both government and non-government actors to express dubiously high confidence levels about what's happened. There's also been signs that neither side has been completely honest and transparent about exactly what happened, but even if that were only coming from one side, it still wouldn't be conclusive proof of responsibility. However, the way that muddle of competing claims and various propaganda efforts from both sides has somehow morphed into "the hospital explosion has clearly been shown to be the fault of the side I dislike, and the side I like has been proven to be untrustworthy liars" in some people's minds is a great example of just how propaganda can be effective: it often doesn't really need to be convincing, it just needs to provide people a justification for believing whatever they already wanted to believe in the first place. Crosby B. Alfred posted:I don't agree with the response from Israel but the point is Hamas isn't looking for peace. There's several extremely obvious jump cuts in MEMRI's clip. Without knowing what they cut out, it's impossible to say whether it's an accurate presentation of his overall message. MEMRI has been caught clipping things out of context to alter the apparent meaning of what people are saying before. Even in that heavily-cherrypicked clip, he states that Israel must be removed because it is a "security, military, and political catastrophe" for the Palestinian nation - in other words, that the Palestinians cannot feel safe or have a stable independent state as long as Israel is pursuing these sorts of policies toward them. Not only is that a reasonable claim, but it's very much a mirror of Israeli rhetoric toward Palestinians, which frequently cite "security considerations" as excuses to demand limits on Palestinian sovereignty or engage in bloody military atrocities against Palestinians. The effectiveness of popular insurgent resistance rests in the fact that they cannot be stopped via military force alone. They simply cannot be bombed into submission. If the occupying power wants to stop their violence, its choices are to either enter negotiations and make some real concessions, or to ethnically cleanse the region and completely remove or destroy the civilian population they recruit from. As such, it's pretty important for their representatives to stubbornly assert that the current ongoing mass reprisals won't dissuade them.
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Nov 2, 2023 16:05
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Kalit posted:Let me see if an analogy will help you understand. Pretend that someone made a home insurance claim and stated that their house burned down. But then when the adjuster made a visit out to the site, the house itself was fine, it was a detached shed that got burned down. Would you say that this person did or did not lie to the insurance company? The central courtyard of your hospital complex, which has been converted into a crowded refugee centre/open-air medical ward, getting turned into a bowl of human soup by an explosion that shakes and damages the surrounding buildings is exactly like a house's detached shed burning down. Yes, this is definitely an extremely useful analogy that in no way shows your contempt for human life.
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Nov 2, 2023 16:13
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In a more "regular" scenario thinks would look off from all sides on it, but Israel has a incredibly negative amount of goodwill so it's really on them to prove they didn't do it and they have absolutely not done it. If anything the nonsense they have put forth as evidence has hurt their case.
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Nov 2, 2023 16:19
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I think it’s also worth reiterating that the Al-Ahli discussion was a lot more relevant at the time it happened, which was many thousands of civilian deaths ago and also before the occupation forces spent three days bombing a refugee camp and taking responsibility for it.
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Nov 2, 2023 16:19
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i fly airplanes posted:You seem to be engaging in bad faith at this point. i fly airplanes posted:I'm not sure if you're asking these questions in good faith here, it seems you're just trying to set up a 'gotcha' trap. i fly airplanes posted:Again, you are arguing in completely bad faith in this regard because you're straight up saying that Hamas statements deserve benefit of the doubt while the IDF should be regarded as guilty war criminals from the first position. And the posts were reported, which is why it deserves mentioning. Rebel Blob fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Nov 2, 2023 |
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Nov 2, 2023 16:30
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