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Dick Burglar posted:Goons, I'd like to graduate from car camping to backpacking eventually, and would like to get a starter pack. This alnilam posted:A better way to test-run backpacking imo is to find a place with suitable campsites that are like 1/4 mile or less from the car. ... is good advice. Basically everything I would've said but I'll give my 2¢ as well. Start out small. Agreed with doing a short distance trail that way you can easily back out etc if needed. I won't lie, I went through a bit of anxiety on my first few trips. You can feel a bit vulnerable being so far away from things in a remote part of the backcountry, far away from help. With time and experience it goes away but some people experience it, others not so much. Overpacking is a big deal. Most beginners worry so much about forgetting things they might need that they bring a lot of extra junk. I'll give a few gear guidance recommendations though. Backpacking is like stripped down camping. You need most of the same systems but in a smaller, lighter package. The more you go, the more you will notice what you need, what you don't. Its nice to keep a list the first few times to keep track of what you used, what you didn't, and what you might want to add. Base weight is the gear needed for a trip minus food and water. Trip length and weather are the biggest variables on your pack weight. Your base weight will be mostly the same for a 2 day as a 7 day trip. Food and water will be what adds the most weight. I would recommend to aim for a 20-30lb base weight, 30-40lb fully loaded pack weight for your first few trips. That includes water/food. Food is a tricky thing as each person will have their preferences. The freeze dried stuff is convenient but expensive and doesn't always taste great. There are some smaller boutique brands making better stuff but its pricey. Things like jerky, tortillas, cheese, dried sausage and cured meats, nuts, dry soup kits, noodles, instant sides like Knorr brands, peanut butter, honey, rice etc are all easy to bring and last without refrigeration. There are trail focused cookbooks to help with eating on trail. Here are the basics: Pack (for 3+ days I would recommend a 60L pack. Its just the right size for most people. Osprey atmos is my absolute favorite I will recommend to everybody) Shelter (tent, tarp, bivvy etc: Usually a 2 person tent under 5 lbs, REI passage 2 is a good entry level backpacking tent, nemo hornet for upgraded option) Sleep (sleeping bag, pad. I generally recommend a 15-20ºF bag under 3lbs if you can. Kelty cosmic 20 down is the go to recommendation. Also love big agnes insulated air pads as they're very plush) Cooking (stove/jet boil, pot/bowl, food, lighter/matches. This is a tough one. MSR pocket rockets are well loved, as are jet boils. Pros and cons with each but its a personal preference) Hydration (water storage (bladder or bottles), water filter for purifying. Bottle or cup for drinking while at camp or mixing drinks) Clothing (pants, undies, socks, base layer, mid layer, outer layer, rain/snow gear if appropriate) I generally bring far fewer clothes nowadays. Darn tough wool socks, exofficio boxer briefs, and one outfit with maybe a shirt or two to change out. I usually wear the same convertible pants for the course of a trip. First aid/toiletry (first aid kit for common injuries, prescription meds, allergy stuff, pepto tablets). This can be as small as a ziplock baggie since you're not doing combat trauma on the trail. Cuts, burns, stings, upset stomach, pain relief and allergy are the most common things to have to deal with. Also look for a pocket sized wilderness first aid guide to keep with it for basic guidance. I look at my first aid kit as a toiletry kit so toilet paper and/or nature wipes, hand sanitizer, soap, chap stick. Navigation (map, compass, gps, beacon if desired). I usually only bring GPS on new trails or places I'm not familiar with. Tools (small knife, paracord, tent pole repair tube, small bit of duct tape, air mattress patches if using one) You don't need a rambo knife to kill a moose or chop down a tree with. Leave the hatchet at home. A small swiss army knife or a single blade knife is most all you need for opening packages, cutting food, cutting cord etc. Lighting (headlamps). Headlamps are the most useful light. Bring a battery bank or spare batteries to keep it going. Lanterns and string lights are okay but a headlamp is a must. This technology is getting so cheap now that you can buy a black diamond or petzl but you can also buy a cheaper amazon no name for insanely cheap. Protection (bugs, sun, sunglasses). Some places are worse than others but play to the area you're going. Small form factor is ideal. Sunglasses are crucial on sunny places without much cover. Hiking poles are one of those things I rarely use on day hikes but I use on my backpacking trips. It saves my knees and hips on long or steep days. Extras These are your creature comforts like a book or kindle, a deck of cards, hammock, chair, battery bank/solar panel, camera gear, coffee making stuff. Every ounce counts and you feel it with every step so you'll need to justify what's worth the added weight. REI rents out most backpacking items so you can try things out before investing. You can easily spend a thousand or more on gear to go backpacking. The great thing is it can mostly be shared with someone else. Each person doesn't need their own tent, stove or water filter. I would recommend trying it before you buy it. Shop used if you can for things like packs and stoves. Verman fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Oct 31, 2023 |
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Oct 31, 2023 21:31
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its all nice on rice posted:Rei and kelty make good starting gear that won't break the bank. A good sleep system is key to a comfortable experience IMO. Thanks for this. I've got a Kelty cosmic down 20 bag and a sleeping bag liner, but I think I'm going to get a camp blanket for warmer nights. I started off with the crappy folding foam sleeping pad, and yeah they're miserable. I also get hip/back pain if I sleep on my back while camping (don't usually have that problem in a bed, though I did have it crop up briefly after being abroad for several weeks), so it's even more insufficient. I just ordered a Klymit insulated static V pad. I know they're not great, but it was relatively cheap ($70 via Costco) and I figure it should work well enough until I get a feel for what kind of pad I want. Also got a Coleman self-inflating pad that I got for like $20 when it was linked in this thread as a backup, but lol. Definitely going to get a good camp pillow because the camp pillow I was gifted is less than ideal. I've heard good things about the Nemo Fillo. I have some hiking boots but they're not super great. I think next pair of hiking shoes I get are going to be trail runners, and I can pair them with some gaiters for ankle coverage. I've got some REI-brand merino wool socks that worked well enough for now. Eventually I'll probably grab some Darn Toughs. Also heard Bombas wools are pretty good? Pocket rocket looks good. I forget which youtuber recommended it (Dan Becker maybe?), but they suggested a long plastic spoon for like a dollar from Walmart. I've got it on the camping list. Definitely need to get a water filter, so good to know, thanks. Edit to address some of Verman's list: Will look into the Osprey Atmos. I've got a simple REI Trail Hut 2 tent. Works well enough as a starter. I'll look at both pocket rocket and jet boils. The backpacking youtube channels I've been watching seem to recommend using Smartwater bottles for water storage and filtering water into them. Even if it's not perfect, it's a cheap and easy way to start, so I figure I'll start with that. I've definitely been overpacking clothes. Thanks for the rec on underwear, I'll try those. I've been bringing a basic ouchy bag and a tourniquet on my day trips and car camping trips. I hope I never need the tourniquet but, if I ever do, I don't want to gently caress with trying to jerry-rig one out in the field. Navigation is something I am very not-great with. I'd be a lot more comfortable if I took a map-reading/land nav class, even if modern GPS solutions are far and away the better option. For tools, how do you feel about a folding saw? My guess is probably unnecessary unless you're looking to build your own shelter. How much paracord is a goo amount to pick up? I was thinking of getting 200 feet because that's almost certainly more than I'd need, but I'm probably gonna ruin some of it doing stupid poo poo so best to have some extra. I've got a Black Diamond headlamp. It's a AAA using kind, not a rechargeable kind, but it works for now. Definitely can never have too many pairs of cheap sunglasses. I've been watching channels like TA Outdoors and I think it'd be fun to try super low profile camping with a bivy and a simple tarp, but that's probably best reserved for when I better know what I'm doing. But it's fun to imagine, at least? Thanks for the information and the recommendations. I'll consider renting some stuff from REI when next I go camping. Any more suggestions for brands to look into or to absolutely avoid, I'm all ears! Dick Burglar fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Oct 31, 2023 |
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Oct 31, 2023 21:38
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I assume anyone that backpacks with just a Z-lite must be a back sleeper because I cannot figure out how to side sleep on one of them without murdering my hips
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Oct 31, 2023 21:40
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Clothing is definitely a place you can save space and weight for little to no cost. Extra socks is the only place I don't skimp. I usually have one extra of everything otherwise. When you're out in the wilderness for a while, you don't tend to notice everyone smelling. There are wash cloths/towlettes that come in large pill size (think a little bigger than mentos) you get them wet and they unfold into a good sized wipes that are reusable (depending on what you wiped down with them.) Most of them say they're naturally degrading, but just practice pack it in pack it out. One or two gallon zip top bags should be enough for your trash. A folding saw is useful if you need to cut up larger pieces of wood. Keep in mind the rules tend to be "don't burn anything larger than your forearm." A good idea is to take a notepad & pen (or just take notes on yours phone) format noting what you do(n't) use and what would've been useful. This will help you dial in your gear. Freaquency posted:I assume anyone that backpacks with just a Z-lite must be a back sleeper because I cannot figure out how to side sleep on one of them without murdering my hips That's how I feel. Even when I was an invincible kid in scouts I didn't like them. But I'm a side/stomach sleeper.
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Oct 31, 2023 23:30
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The difference of trying to sleep on a z lite and a big Agnes 4" air pad is the difference of not sleeping and hurting in the morning, or sleeping nearly as good as home. I'm a side sleeper so it's impossible to use a folding pad. A good pillow helps. Inflatable pillows sort of suck but it's better than nothing.
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Nov 1, 2023 01:33
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The og fillo is the best pillow I've used so far and I've got months worth of sleep on it. It's not the lightest and it doesn't pack down the smallest but that layer of foam makes it just good enough to get a good sleep. Still isn't as cozy as a normal pillow but that's life. I am a side sleeper and sleep well on the wide thermarest pads (currently got an xtherm, I tend not to tent camp in the heat of summer).. inflate it stiff enough and my hip doesn't dig into the ground at all. When it eventually pops beyond repair I'll replace it with one of those big agnes thick pads though. They look pretty amazing.
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Nov 1, 2023 01:57
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I love my sleep system. NEMO Disco 15 sleeping bag, Sea to Summit Comfort Light sleeping pad, and a Therm-a-rest pillowcase stuff sack full of my clothes.
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Nov 1, 2023 02:06
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Getting myself one of these bad boys in 2 weeks! And pairing it with a titanium four dog stove! - https://fourdog.com/ultra-light-ii/ This will be the most absurdly comfortable winter camping setup ever. Cant wait to use it this year!
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Nov 1, 2023 02:33
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BaseballPCHiker posted:Getting myself one of these bad boys in 2 weeks! Hell yeah fellow hot tenter. Keep in mind that you’re still gonna need 0 degree bags, because you’re certainly not gonna get up every 1.75 hours to feed the stove.
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Nov 1, 2023 03:02
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Dr. Lunchables posted:Hell yeah fellow hot tenter. For sure. I'm a gear junkie, this is just my base camping hot tent. I have a backpacking one too that I've been using for years in addition to the old base camping hot tent I had previously.
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Nov 1, 2023 03:38
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I'm looking for a new pair of boots. I'm currently wearing a pair of Lowa Renegade 100 GTXs. I love these boots, by far the best boot I've ever owned. Nearing 2 and a half years old, these things have been across Algonquin Park as well as on multiple trips to the backcountry, and have lived up to the daily abuse of walking the dog on my local trails and assorted yard work including snow blowing. Unfortunately, the soles are starting to wear, but I think I have another 6 months or so left before they wear out. I've used these boots in the winter generally without issue, but on the coldest days they aren't warm enough and harden up reducing traction. Being in Northern Ontario, we're only talking maybe 10-15 days a year where these boots aren't up to it. I have giant winter boots for doing stuff outside in deep snow or otherwise extreme conditions, but I hate wearing these and would rather not go out that wear them. I've been looking for something that would bridge the gap, where I could have a Summer boot and a Winter boot, allowing me to extend both of their lives by not using them in conditions they aren't suited for. I've seen some "warm" versions of hiking boots that add a Thinsulate layer. I just don't think that this layer would be enough for the coldest days, but maybe I'm overthinking it.
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Nov 1, 2023 17:48
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I've got these - https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/reviews/shoes-and-boots/winter-boots/vasque-snowburban-ii-ultradry And they've worked really well for me over the years. When these eventually wear out I'll definitely get another pair. Only real issue is the lacing system, but I modified it slightly and its been fine since.
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Nov 1, 2023 18:00
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Minister Robathan posted:I'm looking for a new pair of boots. I'm currently wearing a pair of Lowa Renegade 100 GTXs. I love these boots, by far the best boot I've ever owned. Nearing 2 and a half years old, these things have been across Algonquin Park as well as on multiple trips to the backcountry, and have lived up to the daily abuse of walking the dog on my local trails and assorted yard work including snow blowing. Unfortunately, the soles are starting to wear, but I think I have another 6 months or so left before they wear out. Do yourself a favor and get two separate boots. Any boot that is good in the summer will not be good in the deep winter and vice versa.
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Nov 1, 2023 18:49
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Lows will resole your boots, though it costs more than a pair of Merrells at retail https://www.lowaboots.com/boot-repair-resole
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Nov 1, 2023 20:20
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BaseballPCHiker posted:I've got these - https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/reviews/shoes-and-boots/winter-boots/vasque-snowburban-ii-ultradry Personally for non-winter use I also prefer not having a waterproof membrane (but I also prefer trail runners rather than boots for non-winter use)
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Nov 1, 2023 21:06
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Dick Burglar posted:Thanks for this. - I'd recommend looking at the gravity water filters like the platypus gravityworks or equivalent. There's something to be said for just scooping some water into a bag and hanging it on a tree or your poles. - I'd honestly recommend a Nalgene wide mouth or compatibly-threaded wide mouth water bottle. Many water filters have adapters directly to them, and they're built like tanks. My wife and I both carry a 1.5 litre Nalgene that fits in our side pockets of our backpacks perfectly. They're like $20. - highly recommend merino wool base layers, with a loose and lightweight pants/shirts over top. They're naturally stink resistant and stay reasonably warm even when wet, so you can get away with fewer changes of clothes that way. - for most backpacking in designated parks areas, it's illegal to go around and harvest wood for a fire anyways. Skip the saw and hatchets, unless you're going into unrestricted natural areas and plan to use them explicitly - you don't need miles and miles of Paracord, despite what the survivalist YouTubers might say lol. 100' is plenty. 200' is approaching overkill, unless you're actually using it as part of one of your shelter systems. LED battery powered headlamps are good, because you can carry an extra set or two of batteries. Rechargeable ones are fine as long as you've tested it's actually useful battery life. -definitely don't go straight into ultralight minimalist camping. Start thinking about that after you have a couple hundred/thousand km's of backpacking behind you. You'll know what you want and what you actually need at that point
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Nov 1, 2023 21:30
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Clark Nova posted:Lows will resole your boots, though it costs more than a pair of Merrells at retail Ah man, they don't have this option on the Canadian site that's so cool! Unfortunately, they don't do Renegades. Oh well. I destroy Merrells, or really any cheaper boot, in about 9 months to a year. I just don't find they are dependable enough to warrant spending 200 bucks on every year. I'm gonna get a second pair of winter specific boots as suggested, those Vasques look pretty cool. I forget which pair exactly, but the Vasques were the runner up when I picked out my Lowa's. quote:platypus gravityworks These things are absolute game changer's for canoe camping, or really any group backcountry activity. It's so convenient at camp, and we found that there's enough height difference to even make a little bit of water in the boat! Canoeing, we bring 2 in separate boats and literally never worry about water, it's so great. quote:folding saws In our parks, we can harvest deadfall for campfires, and the folding saws come in handy. I don't bother bringing it hiking most of the time though. I always bring my hatchet though, especially solo (well, plus the dog) camping. This is as much because I feel more confortable and safe with it as for firewood.
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Nov 2, 2023 15:15
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I've never used a cutting tool for campsite firewood in my life. It's always easy to find wood in the Southeast though. Does anyone else still carry an MSR Mini/WaterWorks filter? It looks like they've gotten smaller since I got mine 10+ years ago. Everyone's all about the squeezes and gravities these days.
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Nov 2, 2023 15:36
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Fitzy Fitz posted:I've never used a cutting tool for campsite firewood in my life. It's always easy to find wood in the Southeast though. Yeah I'm still all about the pump filter. When i combined stuff with my wife we kept her slightly nicer condition katadyn hiker pump, but i liked my msr just fine too Ever since i experienced a worse-than-expected water supply and had to pump from the tiniest dribbling stream, i insist on having a pump with a tube. You can't dip a gravity/squeeze filler bottle into that.
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Nov 2, 2023 15:49
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alnilam posted:Yeah I'm still all about the pump filter. When i combined stuff with my wife we kept her slightly nicer condition katadyn hiker pump, but i liked my msr just fine too Kind of a niche tip here, but I did a trip in death valley where there was a guaranteed water source but it could be a very shallow & thin stream. I just have squeeze/gravity filters. I brought a ~80ml squeeze bulb and used that to fill the pouch for the filter. Worked surprisingly well.
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Nov 2, 2023 17:55
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PackWizard has some pretty decent example pack lists that I've found to be useful references as I upgrade my own kit. Some good beginner-friendly lists: https://www.packwizard.com/s/AFsRHqE https://www.packwizard.com/s/EUNX2o4 Also just generally a useful tool for keeping track of what you have, what it weighs, and what you're packing. It's also been a useful reminder that this poo poo doesn't really have to be break-the-bank expensive. Can even turn a gear list into a packing checklist if you're so inclined.
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Nov 2, 2023 18:51
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Thoughts on windbreakers? I had a Marmot DriClime that served me well but I did the REI gear trade in thing along with some other stuff I had hanging around and have a decent chunk of money to blow on a new one. So long as they sell it on REI I guess.
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Nov 4, 2023 02:31
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I really like my patagonia houdini
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Nov 4, 2023 02:37
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The Fool posted:I really like my patagonia houdini 
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Nov 4, 2023 03:00
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REI flash windbreaker is super great. Maybe not the lightest or the most featureful but it does the job and has a good price.
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Nov 4, 2023 04:14
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The Fool posted:I really like my patagonia houdini I am liking my patagonia houdini *so far*.... my goal was to get a windbreaker/light rainshell that did not have any of that stupid X.5 layer construction bullshit with the spray-on coating on the inside that seems to flake off after a few months. Still waiting for some rain to test the waterproofness, though.
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Nov 4, 2023 06:45
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I picked up a Rab Vital when REI was out of my size for the Houdini, and I've liked it a lot. Plus it has two hand pockets. All the runners in my area use the Houdini or the Brooks RunVisible convertible, if that helps you make a decision. effika fucked around with this message at 14:09 on Nov 4, 2023 |
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Nov 4, 2023 14:07
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Houdini for me for 3 season wear. An Empire Wool & Canvas Snowshoe Hare for winter usage.
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Nov 4, 2023 20:18
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Montbell makes some nice Houdini-likes that have two hand pockets and some similar nice features. They come in a few different weights too from light to extremely light. If you find one for 10 bucks at the used gear store that’s ideal (humblebrag). Houdini is totally adequate otherwise and packs just a little smaller than the Montbell I have.
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Nov 5, 2023 05:18
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Anachronist posted:Montbell makes some nice Houdini-likes that have two hand pockets and some similar nice features. They come in a few different weights too from light to extremely light. If you find one for 10 bucks at the used gear store that’s ideal (humblebrag). Houdini is totally adequate otherwise and packs just a little smaller than the Montbell I have. wait, montbell as in the Japanese brand? you jammy bastard.
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Nov 5, 2023 05:58
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Anachronist posted:Montbell makes some nice Houdini-likes that have two hand pockets and some similar nice features. They come in a few different weights too from light to extremely light. If you find one for 10 bucks at the used gear store that’s ideal (humblebrag). Houdini is totally adequate otherwise and packs just a little smaller than the Montbell I have. Are you talking about the montbell tachyon jacket? I have the EX light parka which is the JP version of that without hand pockets, it's really nice and weighs/packs down to nothing. The lower denier you go with windbreakers the more trashbag-like the fabric will look and feel though, it's very much active-use only
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Nov 5, 2023 16:16
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cerious posted:Are you talking about the montbell tachyon jacket? I have the EX light parka which is the JP version of that without hand pockets, it's really nice and weighs/packs down to nothing. The lower denier you go with windbreakers the more trashbag-like the fabric will look and feel though, it's very much active-use only No I think I have the UL Stretch wind jacket or something similar that's been discontinued. Slightly less trashbag-like than the tachyon. A friend does have the tachyon and enjoys it as well.
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Nov 6, 2023 16:18
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Verman posted:The difference of trying to sleep on a z lite and a big Agnes 4" air pad is the difference of not sleeping and hurting in the morning, or sleeping nearly as good as home. I'm a side sleeper so it's impossible to use a folding pad. A good pillow helps. Inflatable pillows sort of suck but it's better than nothing. I've found that even though I'm packing an extra pound or two, the great sleep I get from my comfy sleep setup lets me hike longer and more enjoyable then next day. So even though I'm carrying more, I feel better than being light and feeling like poo poo.
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Nov 8, 2023 19:53
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BaseballPCHiker posted:Getting myself one of these bad boys in 2 weeks! Let us know how it is. This looks like something that Instagram hikers would get but could possibly be trash. Looks cozy as hell though.
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Nov 8, 2023 19:57
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Ulesi posted:I've found that even though I'm packing an extra pound or two, the great sleep I get from my comfy sleep setup lets me hike longer and more enjoyable then next day. So even though I'm carrying more, I feel better than being light and feeling like poo poo. 100% and it doesn't have to weigh a ton. I have a Big Agnes rapide sl, an r4.2 insulated pad that weighs 1lb 3oz. It's fantastic. It packs small, is warm, and thick/comfortable. The valves are so much better now. Using a light weight pump bag, it inflated quickly and deflates instantly. Not exactly as comfortable as my old big Agnes insulated q core from 2015 (r5) but it weighed nearly double and packed slightly larger but it was heavenly to sleep on. The rapide is nearly that but not quite as plush.
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Nov 8, 2023 21:41
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Just a few oz of extra insulation in a sleeping bad or bag can extend the comfort range by 10's of degrees. For high fill power down in sleeping bags, its around 10 degrees F per 3 oz down, which is insane. The difference between a r=2.5 pad and a r=4.5 pad is like 4 oz. There is no better comfort/weight tradeoff than that.
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Nov 8, 2023 22:21
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Ulesi posted:Let us know how it is. This looks like something that Instagram hikers would get but could possibly be trash. Looks cozy as hell though. Theyre a legit company, been around for years. I know some of the people who have sewn for them. But still waiting for a good winter landscape to set it up with my stove! Just hasnt gotten colder than about 30F here in MN yet.
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Nov 8, 2023 22:58
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BaseballPCHiker posted:Getting myself one of these bad boys in 2 weeks! Im curious to know how warm this will be once the stove runs out! let us know
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Nov 9, 2023 01:52
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Bingemoose posted:Im curious to know how warm this will be once the stove runs out! let us know In my experience, If you fill the stove and adjust the flu and dampers properly, you’ll be roughly 20-25 F above outdoor temps in the morning. This will vary on tent and stove size, as well as snowfall due to insulating properties, but it’s a significant difference compared to just sleeping in the cold. If you wake up for the Night Pee ™ and toss extra on there you might wake up to a comfortable 50 inside the tent.
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Nov 9, 2023 17:11
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The canvas material wont really insulate you well at all, certainly worse than your typical double layer backpacking tent. The big advantage for winter camping is in handling condensation. With a properly functioning and sized wood stove though you can get any tent extremely warm. I've had a Snowtrekker be a comfy 80F in -20 weather before.
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Nov 9, 2023 22:04
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