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FFT posted:What, no, the whole point is "that could be you, in this instant" as a combination with simulation theory/basically The Matrix. But if you're the copy then the AI already exists so you don't need to create it and literally can't because you're not real, you can't affect the real world the computer exists in. So either the AI doesn't exist and can't torture you, or the AI already exists and torturing you is pointless.
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Nov 4, 2023 15:56
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Arivia posted:Sleeping is good yeah Been saying this
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Nov 4, 2023 15:56
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Tiggum posted:"I liked Andor. I liked it. It was a good show, it was fine, it was cosy, it was also extremely boring and made me fall asleep". I guess he likes being bored and falling asleep. That's my favorite bit about this, is that literally the only way it works on you is if you already believe it will work on you. It's Pascal's Wager, but only if you opt in, and anyone who just goes "this sounds dumb" would never have infinite AI selves tortured because the computer knows their mind wouldn't have been changed by the idea that they might be an AI about to get tortured.
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Nov 4, 2023 15:59
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OwlFancier posted:But if you're the copy then the AI already exists so you don't need to create it and literally can't because you're not real, you can't affect the real world the computer exists in. Tiggum posted:This is where Yudkowsky's idea of "timeless decision theory" comes in. As I understand it, he essentially states that the future can effect the past because we can predict the future and alter our behaviour accordingly. So the AI has to torture copies of people in the future in order to effect its own creation in the past. That's the key piece of nonsense that makes the whole thing hold together. Because otherwise you can simply reason that, having no way to influence events that have already taken place, the future AI will have no reason to create any copies of people to torture. If I tell you not to do something or I'll punish you, and then you do it, punishing you may serve the purpose of discouraging you from doing it again as you now know that the threat is genuine. But the AI, firstly, never made the threat, and secondly, doesn't need to encourage people to create it again because it already exists, so there's nothing to be gained.
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Nov 4, 2023 16:16
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It's just tech bros trying to fill the god-shaped hole in their hearts with the singularity. Logic doesn't really enter the picture here because if the premise is flawed in the first place you can say whatever bullshit you want and convince yourself it makes sense
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Nov 4, 2023 16:24
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Gonna brush up on theology to see if I can make some tech idiot computer arguments for being a halfway decent person. Gonna invent computer st francis
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Nov 4, 2023 16:34
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Kit Walker posted:It's just tech bros trying to fill the god-shaped hole in their hearts with the singularity. Logic doesn't really enter the picture here because if the premise is flawed in the first place you can say whatever bullshit you want and convince yourself it makes sense It's literally Southern Baptist 'live in fear of an angry god' + Pascal's Wager. In both cases the all powerful entity will punish you for upsetting it, and in both cases you need to live in constant fear of that. It's neither cleverer nor more complicated than that, except having some slight twistiness in how it explains why the AI version of god will become upset and what you can do to avoid it.
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Nov 4, 2023 16:47
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If there is any supernatural force governing the universe, it surely does not resemble the Abrahamic god. I mean come on, the theme of almost every story in the Bible is "Do what your betters say or else God will gently caress you up." That's clearly not a mythology, it's a scheme to control your subjects.
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Nov 4, 2023 17:13
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Is ai good? Who can tell? https://twitter.com/sublunaryeds/status/1720634595094536311?t=hDStcoEMB-VI0T4UljIetw&s=19
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Nov 4, 2023 17:16
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Tech bros are so dumb
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Nov 4, 2023 17:21
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You can simply counter the whole thing by imagining another AI doing simulations where it doesn't torture people. The number of simulations it does is an infinity a billion times bigger than the infinity of Roko's basilisk. Now there's only a one in a billion chance you live in the torture simulation and it would be foolish to live as if you were. Bish bash, impeccable logic across the whole line.
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Nov 4, 2023 17:21
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Piell posted:That's my favorite bit about this, is that literally the only way it works on you is if you already believe it will work on you. It's Pascal's Wager, but only if you opt in, and anyone who just goes "this sounds dumb" would never have infinite AI selves tortured because the computer knows their mind wouldn't have been changed by the idea that they might be an AI about to get tortured. What if I don't want to help build the AI because I know I'd be poo poo at it
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Nov 4, 2023 17:22
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Ghost Leviathan posted:What if I don't want to help build the AI because I know I'd be poo poo at it What if we purposely build it wrong, as a joke
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Nov 4, 2023 17:22
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The Saddest Rhino posted:Is ai good? Who can tell? ai is good, it got us a new beatles song
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Nov 4, 2023 17:31
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Bloody Hedgehog posted:Oh, you've allowed yourself to be be condemned to the hoary netherworld?
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Nov 4, 2023 17:50
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Hey as a tangent this "new Beatles song" is loving gross, just looting John Lennon and George Harrison's castoffs.
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Nov 4, 2023 17:51
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Kenning posted:Fukkin Calvinists.
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Nov 4, 2023 17:54
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Cloacamazing! posted:It's the same with people who go to church and pray and then head outside and do a bunch of stuff like hate thy neighbors. Organized religion teaches us that those people are going to Christian heaven, but someone who spends their entire life working to make the world a better place but happens to be born Muslim doesn't. Seems legit. quote:The God my mom believes in doesn't care if you believe in him or not, as long as you're a good person. Collateral posted:The god of Muslims, Jews, and Christians is the same dude, they differ entirely on who is the most important prophet. Yeshua was born and died a Jew. He is a prophet according to Islam. Christianity only became a thing after Saul rocked into town 30 years after the main man was dead. Basically, people who talk about "the Abrahamic religions" are like the people who say "Judeo-Christian": in most cases both terms work out to be "Christian, plus maybe some other folks."
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Nov 4, 2023 17:58
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Arsenic Lupin posted:The Jews would wholeheartedly disagree with you. They don't think Jesus was any kind of prophet; they think he was part of a long series of false Messiahs. In particular, they think that Christians who believe in the Trinity are worshiping multiple Gods and are Right Out. Islam claims Jesus as a great prophet, but Muhammad was a much, much more important prophet, and both the Jews and the Christians are Wrong. Come on, I didnt say how Jews view jesus, only that he was born and died Jewish. Its why I have always dispised the narrative of Christians through the ages, of using the "Jews killed Jesus" to persecute Jews. Its pure sophisty.
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Nov 4, 2023 18:51
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Like, Jews and Christians don't think Muhammad was a prophet either.
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Nov 4, 2023 18:56
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Collateral posted:Come on, I didnt say how Jews view jesus, only that he was born and died Jewish. Its why I have always dispised the narrative of Christians through the ages, of using the "Jews killed Jesus" to persecute Jews. Its pure sophisty. Which every time I see it I’m like, yeah, and? Wasn’t that the whole point?
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Nov 4, 2023 19:04
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i don't care about your middle eastern shipping war, everyone knows Muhammad x Christ is toxic anyway. take it back to the fandom wiki
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Nov 4, 2023 19:05
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Collateral posted:Come on, I didnt say how Jews view jesus, only that he was born and died Jewish. Its why I have always dispised the narrative of Christians through the ages, of using the "Jews killed Jesus" to persecute Jews. Its pure sophisty.
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Nov 4, 2023 19:11
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The Italians killed Jesus.
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Nov 4, 2023 19:12
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MuhammadXChrist sounds like a grindcore band.
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Nov 4, 2023 19:13
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tokin opposition posted:i don't care about your middle eastern shipping war, everyone knows Muhammad x Christ is toxic anyway. take it back to the fandom wiki i had to check  surprising
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Nov 4, 2023 19:24
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repiv posted:i had to check Be the change you want to see in the world.
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Nov 4, 2023 19:25
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Sadly not a lot of fan art opportunity for the Prophet pbuh so I see why it isn’t a big ship
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Nov 4, 2023 19:52
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Baron von Eevl posted:Hey as a tangent this "new Beatles song" is loving gross, just looting John Lennon and George Harrison's castoffs. that's what bands do though? like, it's not even notable that it's happening with two dead members, because tons of bands will take demos/songs/tracks written by dead members and use them on future recordings as tributes or memorials. it's notable just because it's the beatles. it's a song that was authentically started by lennon for the band, that the three others tried to work on in the 90s but couldn't get lennon's demo cleaned up for. now using an AI to clean it up made it possible, so they used lennon's demo, harrison's recording from the 90s, and then mccartney and ringo starr finished it off. everyone involved (either the artists themselves or their surviving partners) signed off on it, and it's only different from a standard studio recording set up because there were gaps of decades between various parts (which again, happens not infrequently with musical artists with huge back catalogues of unreleased material). everyone involved was trying to make this happen. it just took technology time to make it possible. it's as artistically pure as this poo poo gets, which is why it's nice. it's not apple records feeding old recordings of lennon into a neural net to try and get new songs they can sell with no actual human input. it's not some billionaire who's never actually written a song signing off on using an old track of harrison's. it's the band, collectively, working to get one last song out over the decades, and it involves a bunch of people because that's the people the beatles members worked with (giles martin and peter jackson.) you just get to enjoy an actual real authentic one more beatles song in tyool 2023 by the actual artists, without capitalism taking a giant poo poo over it and perverting the idea. it's a nice little bit of "oh, when we aren't loving up our culture technology can make amazing things possible." just enjoy it. or don't. but it's not gross.
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Nov 4, 2023 19:55
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Sadly not a lot of fan art opportunity for the Prophet pbuh so I see why it isn’t a big ship Also the ChristX space is currently filled with ChristXBuddha
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Nov 4, 2023 19:59
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Jesus Christ.....
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Nov 4, 2023 20:05
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This derail is over. No more Roko's basilisk or religion chat, thanks.
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Nov 4, 2023 20:07
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Arivia posted:that's what bands do though? like, it's not even notable that it's happening with two dead members, because tons of bands will take demos/songs/tracks written by dead members and use them on future recordings as tributes or memorials. The original demo is front the late 70s and wasn’t intended as a Beatles track but otherwise… yeah. What’s the big deal? It’s not really any different than the two tracks they did in the mid 90s. McCartney mentioned AI though and some people are having a fit.
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Nov 4, 2023 20:22
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Tony Phillips posted:The original demo is front the late 70s and wasn’t intended as a Beatles track but otherwise… yeah. What’s the big deal? It’s not really any different than the two tracks they did in the mid 90s. McCartney mentioned AI though and some people are having a fit. yeah i guess there's a theoretical argument for john lennon in heaven/nirvana/(i forget where he was spiritually when he got shot) shaking his fist and going "NO THAT TAPE WAS NEVER MEANT TO BE IN PAUL'S GRUBBY HANDS" (my mistake for interpreting the origin of the demo tape incorrectly) but also i really can't blame yoko as executor of his estate for going "hey you three were his main musical collaborators in life, please do something with his final recording [because you'll respect it]" which is the provenance of the 90s songs and now the new one.
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Nov 4, 2023 20:36
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Arivia posted:i really can't blame yoko Fake Beatles fan.
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Nov 4, 2023 20:46
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Philippe posted:This derail is over. No more Roko's basilisk or religion chat, thanks. 
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Nov 4, 2023 20:59
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Nov 4, 2023 20:59
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Nov 4, 2023 21:00
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Is that the canine plane or are there just way more canine furries than anything else?
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Nov 4, 2023 21:10
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they're dressed as animals not teeth
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Nov 4, 2023 21:26
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