(Thread IKs:
fatherboxx)
|
Add another to the list of "ships lost to a country without a navy" for that Kerch shipyard strike earlier: https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1721584186824196514?s=20
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2023 19:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 11:33 |
|
|
that kind of damage has to be approaching the point where it's more cost effective to scrap the ship and build a new one i'm curious, does russia manage to get these kind of damaging hits on high value ukrainian military assets and ukraine is just better at information control, or is there really just some kind of ukrainian advantage when it comes to long range strikes (maybe western intelligence?)
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2023 19:16
|
|
|
GhostofJohnMuir posted:that kind of damage has to be approaching the point where it's more cost effective to scrap the ship and build a new one Ukraine doesn't have big ships like this that can be easily threatened. Russia can't move these ships out of the Black Sea, where Ukraine can hit them, so they're continuously under threat. They want to build a new naval base in occupied Georgia but that's a little hilarious since the whole point of this war has been to protect their naval facilities in Crimea. Russia does occasionally pull off a strike like this, like when they hit an awards ceremony and killed ~20 Ukrainian servicemen a week or so ago, but mostly they just shoot up apartment buildings.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2023 19:19
|
|
|
That ship is brand new, too. If it's still floating, it could be repaired but in practice they'll probably tow it to a shipyard and park it next to the other ships that have been waiting for repairs for a decade, then strip it for parts to keep others of the class running.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2023 19:26
|
|
|
FuturePastNow posted:That ship is brand new, too. If it's still floating, it could be repaired but in practice they'll probably tow it to a shipyard and park it next to the other ships that have been waiting for repairs for a decade, then strip it for parts to keep others of the class running. It is still floating. Don't need to tow it much, either, it was at a shipyard when it was hit....
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2023 19:34
|
|
|
I wish the Ukrainians had the ability to hit the command and supply positions around Avidivka like they can hit Russian ships.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2023 19:36
|
|
|
Video of the hits, apparently: https://twitter.com/RebeccaRambar/status/1721593539493011816#m  just in case...
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2023 19:40
|
|
|
The X-man cometh posted:I wish the Ukrainians had the ability to hit the command and supply positions around Avidivka like they can hit Russian ships. They can and have been with ATACMS, a better question is why Ukraine can't stop Russian glide bombs despite their significant anti-air capabilities.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2023 20:46
|
|
|
Speaking of long range hits on Ukrainian targets...quote:Ukrainian major killed by birthday gift bomb Has echoes of the targeted killing of Vladlen Tatarsky back in April when he opened a gift that was a bust of himself only to have it explode. Russia reminding everyone that their security services are still operational and capable.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2023 21:12
|
|
|
FuturePastNow posted:That ship is brand new, too. If it's still floating, it could be repaired but in practice they'll probably tow it to a shipyard and park it next to the other ships that have been waiting for repairs for a decade, then strip it for parts to keep others of the class running. Structural integrity will be iffy after the fire, my unprofessional opinion is that's a scrapper.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2023 21:24
|
|
|
Vietnom nom nom posted:Speaking of long range hits on Ukrainian targets... Or maybe not? 🤔 https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1721634493365154191
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2023 22:06
|
|
|
didn't the exact same thing happen to some polish police chief a while back?
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2023 22:11
|
|
|
GhostofJohnMuir posted:didn't the exact same thing happen to some polish police chief a while back? OddObserver posted:Video of the hits, apparently:
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2023 22:29
|
|
|
Mr. Apollo posted:It was a rocket launcher that he was showing off to other police officers in the police station when he accidentally fired it. 3 successful intercepts of SCALP-EG missiles by the Russian Navy. By the ships hull.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2023 22:33
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/Tatarigami_UA/status/1720814139600232737#m Tatarigami, who has been one of the more commonly retweeted OSINT guys and supposedly a Ukrainian officer, is finally dropping names on who should get fired. It would be real weird if twitter campaigns to fire generals become the norm, but there are definitely historical analogues. Yeah, US civil war newspaper campaigns was also what I was thinking. V WarpedLichen fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Nov 6, 2023 |
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2023 22:46
|
|
|
the american civil war was full of general's using friendly newspapers to call for other generals to be fired or demoted. i can't recall a newspaper campaign that was ever the explicit cause of a command shakeup, but the pr for each union general was something lincoln had to wrestle with the whole war
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2023 22:49
|
|
|
khwarezm posted:https://twitter.com/I_Katchanovski/status/1717738123893817350 Regarding this, I've seen Katchanovski popping up recently, probably due to the culmination of some trials re Maidan in Kiev. I assume that the "media silence" about the "findings" that he describes is due to the findings not actually supporting his conclusions. Reading through his Twitter feed, he seems to be an academic that went off the deep end at some point. What is this journal? How trustworthy is it? What's the manner of peer review for a publication like this?
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2023 23:31
|
|
|
small butter posted:What is this journal? How trustworthy is it? What's the manner of peer review for a publication like this? It's an open access (i.e. pay to publish) journal that has in the past published an article claiming dongs are a social construct.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2023 00:23
|
|
|
Jasper Tin Neck posted:It's an open access (i.e. pay to publish) journal that has in the past published an article claiming dongs are a social construct. I think “social construct” might be a translation issue here, it should be “friendly erection”.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2023 01:38
|
|
|
Jasper Tin Neck posted:It's an open access (i.e. pay to publish) journal These are not the same thing please do not equate them thanks.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2023 02:08
|
|
|
What about the trial verdict that he's claiming corroborates the Maidan conspiracy theory? Is there any place where I can read an analysis of this, preferably in English?
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2023 04:05
|
|
|
Hmmm, this doesn’t sound very democratic … https://thehill.com/policy/international/4296123-ukraine-russia-war-volodymyr-zelensky-not-the-right-time-elections/ quote:Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said in a Monday address that it is “not the right time for elections” in Ukraine as the end of his five-year term approaches. Seems like a dangerous precedent to set. What’s to keep Zelenskyy from suspending elections indefinitely?
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2023 04:35
|
|
|
a maiden protest i suppose
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2023 04:51
|
|
|
The Top G posted:Hmmm, this doesn’t sound very democratic … Yeah there's no good answer here, widely spread out diaspora, soldiers on the front lines, potential for bombing of polling places (which by nature have to be advertised in advance) on election day. The Financial Times Europe editor had a nice piece on this in September: quote:Russia and Ukraine are both supposed to hold presidential elections next March. Autocratic Russia will go ahead. But for democratic Ukraine, under constant threat of Russian attack and constrained by martial law, it is a lot more complicated. Parliamentary elections due next month have already, in effect, been cancelled.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2023 05:02
|
|
|
WarpedLichen posted:https://twitter.com/Tatarigami_UA/status/1720814139600232737#m Tatarigami's been making GBS threads on Syrski for a long time now. I think at least in June when the first minefields were hit during the counteroffensive, I remember seeing some strong words given.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2023 05:50
|
|
|
It's a open question, but democratic states pausing elections during war isn't unusual - there was 8 years between parliamentary elections in the UK due to WW1, and 10 years because of WW2. Of course, the UK is a parliamentary system not as presidental one, and both of those wars did feature governments of national unity and a change of Prime Minster mid-war, even with the same parliament. War didn't stop politics, it just constrained it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2023 06:06
|
|
|
Vietnom nom nom posted:The Financial Times Europe editor had a nice piece on this in September:  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2023 07:42
|
|
|
The Top G posted:Hmmm, this doesn’t sound very democratic … Russia could stop invading.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2023 09:46
|
|
|
It's definitely difficult to see how an election can be run properly and safely, given the combination of factors that have disrupted everything. The best I can think of is that you do not have any polling locations, or any in-person voting at all. You do the entire thing with mail-in ballots. Lets you mostly sidestep the issue of displaced people and removes the danger of polling sites getting missiles rained on them. Plus you could try to work out an agreement with the EU to have the postal votes taken into Poland or something and counted there by Ukrainians, to keep them safe from Russian attempts to burn down the warehouse holding them or something. No idea if any of that would be at all feasible in logistical terms. I guess the alternatives are you run the thing normally as best you can and take whatever hits Russia deals and whatever imperfections arise, or you suspend elections until peace is signed and then have immediate snap ones, though I guess that's not necessary an easy thing to do in legal terms depending on how their constitution sets stuff up.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2023 10:00
|
|
|
Well Russia is having elections on schedule. Makes you think, huh?? You have to judge it in the light of Ukraine's constitution, which I'm no expert on. But it seems like elections can be postponed for force majeur reasons such as an invader bombing your cities and holding one fifth of it under occupation and millions of people being refugees. Ultimately it will fall to courts to decide whether there are legal grounds for that.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2023 10:15
|
|
|
The Top G posted:Hmmm, this doesn’t sound very democratic … This is dumb, how would you hold fair elections with 20% of Ukraine occupied, a large percentage of the population living outside Ukraine as refuges etc. for comparison, the UK suspended elections during WW2 for similar reasons. Secondly, I believe the Ukrainian constitution suspends election during martial law, a bit like the German does. It's really silly to expect a country in a defensive war, fighting an enemy that have qualms with targeting civilians, to somehow hold elections.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2023 10:15
|
|
|
According to this article, the Ukrainian constitution forbids parliamentary elections during martial law. Presidential elections are ruled out by statutory laws.quote:The prohibition of wartime elections is established in statutory law. Article 19(1) of the Law of Ukraine „On the Legal Regime of Martial Law“ prohibits the holding of elections for the President of Ukraine, as well as elections to the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine, the Verkhovna Rada of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, and local self-government, under martial law. The Electoral Code of Ukraine also provides for the suspension of any electoral process from the moment martial law is introduced (Article 20).
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2023 10:31
|
|
|
Nenonen posted:Well Russia is having elections on schedule. Makes you think, huh?? as it does, like clockwork have they even bothered to conjure up 2024's designated fail opposition yet truly, i am excited for the first russian presidential elections since 2012 where, well, idk, what are we paying attention to this time? the war? new ballot stuffing techniques? i mean goddamn something amusing will happen, surely, but something meaningful is fffffff to be clear, i have no disagreement with op; i am venting about things i shouldn't really care about
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2023 10:48
|
|
|
Qtotonibudinibudet posted:as it does, like clockwork I'm looking forward to seeing another installment of the 'lady nonchalantly sticks some balloons in front of the monitoring camera to stuff the ballot box'. Though I may be mistaking her from the Belarusian elections. Why they even bother with that, instead of making up numbers, I don't know.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2023 10:54
|
|
|
I'm pretty sure both Putin and Batka would legit win the elections by sheer internal propaganda and playing on the fears of unknown. Probably not 90%, but easy 65% of legit votes.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2023 11:17
|
|
|
mmkay posted:I'm looking forward to seeing another installment of the 'lady nonchalantly sticks some balloons in front of the monitoring camera to stuff the ballot box'. Though I may be mistaking her from the Belarusian elections. Why they even bother with that, instead of making up numbers, I don't know. Belarus had the lady that climbed out of a window with a bag of ballots. Or just some random boxes/stacks of paper they had laying around the polling location that they had to evacuate down a ladder. Could be either, really. Holdings elections in Ukraine during wartime seems like a dangerous undertaking. Physical voting is probably going to lead to missile strikes, keeping most reasonable people away from going. Mail votes would probably work, but Ukraine does still have a corruption problem that I'd fear influences the vote.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2023 12:12
|
|
|
Elections under martial law seem like a really bad idea. The ruling government has legal powers to seriously interfere with opposition campaigns (they can arbitrarily limit freedom of assembly, freedom of speech, public media access, military security forces can be used to intimidate voters, etc.) I'm not surprised that many countries just forbid it. An unpopular government could use such an election to try to stay in power past the end of the emergency situation and appear legitimate.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2023 12:28
|
|
|
I doubt there are many people that would argue against the points raised. You can’t even have a proper campaign, as any political rally has a decent chance of being targeted by Russia..
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2023 12:42
|
|
|
Any Ukrainian elections during wartime will be a prime target for Russian disinformation and attacks, turning it into a real mess. It's really too unstable an environment to be twittering on about "democratic rights" during a fight to exist.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2023 12:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 11:33 |
|
|
The Top G posted:Hmmm, this doesn’t sound very democratic … Do you seriously believe he wants to make himself president for life? Do you have any evidence or indication that this is likely?
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2023 12:56
|
|
