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STONE COLD 64 posted:Yeah when Fury said Francis was an awkward boxer i wonder if the inexperience meant that his odd timing made it harder to gauge what speed and range his punches were going to come from My overall suspicion is that this and Fury’s legitimate fear of Francis’ punching power is why fury looked so bad. But more than anything, Lmao.
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Oct 29, 2023 22:50
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please keep bang bang zhang away from ngannou for at least the first couple years i wanna see him have a chance to develop
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Oct 30, 2023 03:55
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Honestly Ngannou looked way better than I expected. At the sametime it's possible Tyson Fury didn't train 100% for this.
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Oct 30, 2023 23:38
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STONE COLD 64 posted:please keep bang bang zhang away from ngannou for at least the first couple years i wanna see him have a chance to develop i think he's there and the fight would be incredible.
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Oct 31, 2023 00:06
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I think Francis definitely benefited from fighting a not particularly hungry Tyson Fury already looking past him, but also he did look very good for a heavyweight, with enough foundational skills and certainly enough punching power to threaten other contenders. I don't know if I would pick him to beat Big Andy for example but I think the odds he could are high.
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Oct 31, 2023 00:24
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The Ninth Layer posted:I think Francis definitely benefited from fighting a not particularly hungry Tyson Fury already looking past him, but also he did look very good for a heavyweight, with enough foundational skills and certainly enough punching power to threaten other contenders. I don't know if I would pick him to beat Big Andy for example but I think the odds he could are high. ruiz and zhang i think would be tougher matches for sure
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Oct 31, 2023 00:29
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nearly beating a fury that made the walk and was fighting for real is loving incredible. fury looked the worst i've ever seen him, sure, but i think francis has a legitimate chance against literally anyone in the top ten.
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Oct 31, 2023 00:57
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Marching Powder posted:nearly beating a fury that made the walk and was fighting for real is loving incredible. fury looked the worst i've ever seen him, sure, but i think francis has a legitimate chance against literally anyone in the top ten. I’m not as high on Ngannou as others, and feel like his performance against Fury is not indicative of how he’d fare against other heavyweights. Fury looked the worst I’ve ever seen him look, physically. Fury’s boxing style is based off of his excellent movement and feinting. Feints are something that work on experienced boxers, because those boxers have seen shots that look like that coming before, and know how to counter (or at least dodge) so they react. I think Ngannou didn’t react to the feints because he didn’t know how to react, he hadn’t seen that type of movement before. Them being feints, he didn’t get punished at all for ignoring them. Another big fury skill is his clinch work and, well, you’re not beating Francis Ngannou with clinching. Two of fury’s big skills are therefore nullified. This led to a lot of confusion for fury, and his retreat to keeping the distance and jabbing. Ngannou can’t just stand there against Zhang, and he can’t do that against wilder. He might be able to stand in against Andy Ruiz, but I think Ruiz will be fast enough to stick and move to a points win.
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Oct 31, 2023 01:20
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Marching Powder posted:nearly beating a fury that made the walk and was fighting for real is loving incredible. Yeah, even factoring in a lot of bravado, Fury has said poo poo like he slammed 14 pints before destroying three sparring partners. Fury’s skill level wasn’t going down to zero no matter what. That a combo of sheer power and a bare minimum set of tactics to land the power was able to match up on any form of Fury is impressive but also extremely HW. Mr. F! posted:Feints are something that work on experienced boxers, because those boxers have seen shots that look like that coming before, and know how to counter (or at least dodge) so they react. I think Ngannou didn’t react to the feints because he didn’t know how to react, he hadn’t seen that type of movement before. Them being feints, he didn’t get punished at all for ignoring them. kimbo305 fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Oct 31, 2023 |
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Oct 31, 2023 01:23
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But he did bite on feints. Plenty of em. He was just biting by throwing counter punches at nothing.
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Oct 31, 2023 03:40
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CommonShore posted:But he did bite on feints. Plenty of em. He was just biting by throwing counter punches at nothing. I should rewatch but I only recall him countering and missing once Fury had already landed. He didn’t bothered with the small stuff Fury was doing on the outside.
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Oct 31, 2023 03:44
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kimbo305 posted:I should rewatch but I only recall him countering and missing once Fury had already landed. He didn’t bothered with the small stuff Fury was doing on the outside. Jack Slack had clips of this in his (paywalled) article on the fight. Not all of them became full punches, like Francis would fire a punch and then pull it back when he realized that he had bitten on a shoulder feint.
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Oct 31, 2023 04:03
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Mr. F! posted:I’m not as high on Ngannou as others, and feel like his performance against Fury is not indicative of how he’d fare against other heavyweights. if francis demonstrated anything it's that even in boxing, getting hit by him loving sucks and at heavyweight, there's few greater boons. i'm not saying he'd beat anyone in the top 10, but i am saying it would be a loving fight.
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Oct 31, 2023 05:13
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wilder has the most dog poo poo fundamentals in pro boxing but because he hit really loving hard he won a world championship and it took a prime fury to definitively beat him. repeatedly. francis would do alright against anyone in the top 10 and i'd pay to see it.
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Oct 31, 2023 05:14
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It doesn't take a ton of skill to compete at heavyweight, just being big and athletic will get guys very far. And it helps that most big athletic guys end up in other sports that hurt less and pay more.
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Oct 31, 2023 06:20
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The Ninth Layer posted:It doesn't take a ton of skill to compete at heavyweight, just being big and athletic will get guys very far. And it helps that most big athletic guys end up in other sports that hurt less and pay more. Yup, I was going to make a similar observation; if you're 5'6" and a lean 125lbs you could be an athletic phenomenon with generational speed and power and the big team sports will still have no use for you. If all that's true and you're six inches taller and a hundred pounds heavier, you're not boxing. Isn't there also something to the idea that, once the fighters are clocking in at two hundred plus pounds, everyone has fight ending potential in their punches, whereas in lighter weight classes that's an uncommon attribute?
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Oct 31, 2023 14:45
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Jack B Nimble posted:Isn't there also something to the idea that, once the fighters are clocking in at two hundred plus pounds, everyone has fight ending potential in their punches, whereas in lighter weight classes that's an uncommon attribute? Yes and no. There's power and there's power, which is the uncanny fight-ending "jesus he killed him" power that some people just have. I don't feel that "he's dead" power is more or less common at any weight, but what I will give is that there are fewer fighters in the heavier weight classes that seem to completely lack the ability to end fights with strikes, though pillow fisted heavyweights still exist.
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Oct 31, 2023 15:16
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Jack B Nimble posted:Isn't there also something to the idea that, once the fighters are clocking in at two hundred plus pounds, everyone has fight ending potential in their punches, whereas in lighter weight classes that's an uncommon attribute?  https://www.fightmatrix.com/ufc-records/ufc-fight-outcomes-by-weight-class/ They claim that’s kept up to date. Submission rate is surprisingly constant. Power:chin resistance obviously rises as weight increases, at least matching intuitive perception. Though it’s not a sure thing, it’s certainly valid to be more worried about getting your clock cleaned at HW. kimbo305 fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Oct 31, 2023 |
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Oct 31, 2023 15:57
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CommonShore posted:Jack Slack had clips of this in his (paywalled) article on the fight. Not all of them became full punches, like Francis would fire a punch and then pull it back when he realized that he had bitten on a shoulder feint. I need to rewatch but I feel like ngnannou didn’t really start biting until round 6.
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Oct 31, 2023 22:21
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Crossposting from the MMA thread: Some amusing screenshots I got of the fight   If yall didn't know the name, quote:Ngannou spoke about GIMIK Fight Promotions and noted that UFC president Dana White was unintentionally instrumental in his decision. He mentioned that White's insults towards the discussions for his boxing bouts being gimmick fights led him to use the name.
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Nov 1, 2023 07:37
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Rewatched it. Before, I watched Gabriel Varga's analysis of it. His main argument is that Ngannou never bothered to to try to slip the smaller punches in an offensive sequence, keep balance, and then throw the counter. He was throwing the left hook as soon as he could tell that Fury was throwing for real, so frequently within a half beat. So he took a lot of risk of getting hit hard to have a fast response given his very limited reading ability.CommonShore posted:But he did bite on feints. Plenty of em. He was just biting by throwing counter punches at nothing. Leading up to the R3 knockdown, Ngannou either ignored or didn't see anything twitchy Fury was reading. He also did not care about about Fury trying to mess with distance by dipping forward and to the left. He did sometimes shift back in response to some of Fury's slower and higher amplitude steps. I think I saw a read on roughly 50% of the feints, and he did something on half of those. Ngannou was throwing the left hook in response to anything Fury was coming forward and landing on, and getting close a few times. His own offense was mostly fast straight punch combos and the occasional body shot. Mid R2 is when he threw a few uppercuts/shovel hooks in a tie up that changed Fury's expression a bit. Up until mid R4, Tyson has a mild upper edge in posturing in clinches. But then in one clinch, Ngannou just shucks him off violently from a Thai plum to corner him, going into another clinch where he noticeably starts using more strength to muscle Fury around. Fury's feint rate starts going down, but he does land more. He sometimes bounces/pendulum steps and Ngannou doesn't do anything off of those. I see twitches where Ngannou does nothing but inch forward and threatens to land another bomb. Maybe that's one of the key ways Fury's getting thrown off, not getting tactical respect from half of his feints, so he doesn't know where Ngannou will be a split second later. By R5, I'm mystified by Fury's inconsistency. He's very defensively responsible and parrying a lot of Ngannou's reaching crosses. But his jab is way off. He could be firing from further out, holding Ngannou back with more body jabs, but he's not doing any of that. He's able to jab and duck under the answering left hook to wrap Ngannou up pretty consistently, at least. Ngannou has landed enough grazing stuff that I think Fury has a decent measure of his power and the fact that it's still there. So far, Ngannou's major reason by far for missing the left hook is first getting jabbed on his head or guard and being off balance. When he does react to feints, it's usually to cover up really quick, not to counter. Ooh, 1:20 left in R7, Ngannou gets a very solid, definitely unintentional (he was trying yet another counter left hook) headbutt from southpaw on a closing in Fury. One of the better strikes he landed by Fury's reaction. By R8, Fury is trying to step up the tempo on Ngannou who's gasping a bit. But every time he lands a bit harder, Ngannou manages to put him on the ropes and land a visually strong punch on the guard, or tie up with the upper hand strength wise. 2nd half is as much of a slugfest as the fight gets, with Ngannou invigorating with a huge crowd reaction to his success. I don't remember this phase being that bad for Fury, but rewatch has me agreeing with commentator "I've never see Tyson Fury looking so ragged!" This is a more impressive display of Ngannou's boxing potential than the knockdown. He takes a few punches but otherwise is clubbing Fury's guard, landing frequently, dominating the clinch visually. I don't see his face head on, but I think Ngannou's smiling and thinking he can go the distance now. R9 and 10, feints are pretty much gone. Some pendulum stepping, but a lot more staying out at range, not popping up the shoulder. I think overall, the fight matches my recollection. Ngannou mostly set the distance independent of what Fury was doing, and generally only threw the hook after a jab had landed. A lot of what would have moved other heavyweights got no reaction from Ngannou, so I think that did work in his favor.
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Nov 1, 2023 09:54
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Fury interview 2 days after the fight https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTOFDVNzMM0&t=50s I haven't really ever seen him talking after a fight (after leaving the ring, I suppose), so I dunno if this is how he normally is or if he's especially muted or humbled cuz of the closeness of the fight.
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Nov 3, 2023 17:15
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Fury is a marketing guy, his personality is whatever suits him best in the moment.
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Nov 4, 2023 16:29
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I don't have the link handy but Jack Slack made his 3000 word technical breakdown available to all outside of the paywall.
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Nov 4, 2023 17:40
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Found it to read later https://www.fightprimer.com/how-francis-ngannou-killed-the-king
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Nov 5, 2023 01:25
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Apparently the PPV buys were really bad for it and now a bunch of boxing matchmaking geniuses are sure that Francis is actually unmarketable. Goddamn the internet makes you stupid.
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Nov 5, 2023 02:44
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thats surprising
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Nov 5, 2023 03:13
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kimbo305 posted:Found it to read later i really liked the bits on how the clinch is used in boxing. not something i knew anything about
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Nov 5, 2023 03:25
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ilmucche posted:i really liked the bits on how the clinch is used in boxing. not something i knew anything about its like 90% of what made floyd so untouchable
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Nov 5, 2023 03:38
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Wow that was a great read.
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Nov 5, 2023 08:24
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And, as the article points out, most MMA fighters are actually much more skilled and practiced in framing away clinches than most boxers. You really don't want to give a wrestler unimpeded chest to chest contact, so they have a lot of reps, and a lot more institutional knowledge, at framing on the shoulders, the arms, framing with the head, etc.
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Nov 5, 2023 19:19
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Louis Theroux interviews Anthony Joshua came out last night. It's on BBC. Louis is a British kooky documentary maker. He has a personable style that disarms people and gets them to be quite open. After watching AJ.... He (as always) seems like a nice guy. But I will be betting against him at his next fight.
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Nov 8, 2023 10:25
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Jake Paul returning on 12/15 against a 10-1 cruiserweight. Respect to him for taking on a real boxer and not putting this on ppv. https://twitter.com/MichaelBensonn/status/1722268813318832311 https://twitter.com/MichaelBensonn/status/1722270190631879048
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Nov 9, 2023 01:55
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The SituAsian posted:Jake Paul returning on 12/15 against a 10-1 cruiserweight. Respect to him for taking on a real boxer and not putting this on ppv. https://twitter.com/aaronbronsteter/status/1722276335098441755 https://twitter.com/RodDelCampo/status/1722271860535210167
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Nov 9, 2023 03:44
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yeah that's about where he should be realistically. good luck jake paul with your strategy of becoming a such a detestable wealthy person that you had to take the redemption route to respectability usually only reserved for the poors: brain damage for entertainment.
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Nov 9, 2023 03:59
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Imagine being the boxer singled out as a can for that. Wonder if it’ll be better than average payday for him.
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Nov 9, 2023 04:34
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I'd do it for free drinks after because I would absolutely be able to lay at least one good one on Jake Paul which would feel good.
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Nov 9, 2023 04:44
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If you look at the guy who’s beaten august before he’s banned from unarmed sports indefinitely lmao
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Nov 9, 2023 05:54
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Mr. F! posted:If you look at the guy who’s beaten august before he’s banned from unarmed sports indefinitely lmao lol boxing
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Nov 9, 2023 05:59
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Mr. F! posted:unarmed sports ....... just unarmed?
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Nov 9, 2023 06:51
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