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goferchan posted:I am very, very late to the party but been playing NGU and just got to where I can comfortably kill Uug. I have been completely neglecting maxxing my boosts for the 2% bonus and just sort of did the math on how easy it would be to get a few done and how much the bonuses would add up and jeeze, I feel silly. There are at least a few points in the progression like this. On more than one occasion I only ended up making progress because I tripped over a new mechanic I'd either never noticed or had neglected because it was initially a wall I couldn't interact with.
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Nov 6, 2023 07:54
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most features in ngu are not very strong when you get them but eventually become a cornerstone of your power, which is kind of nice because you can familiarize yourself with them first
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Nov 6, 2023 14:26
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Does NGU offline mode cap at 365 days? I don't believe that I last logged on exactly 1 year ago. Anyway coming back after a yearish and don't remember anything and wow it's complicated. Probably should just hard restart if I want to do this.
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Nov 8, 2023 18:45
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Sibling of TB posted:Does NGU offline mode cap at 365 days? I don't believe that I last logged on exactly 1 year ago. somethinggg is so lazy probably doesn't even track leap years properly
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Nov 8, 2023 18:55
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Devor posted:somethinggg is so lazy i hope the lukewarm reception to Industry didn't put them off entirely. ngu is a banger (I just started a new run about a month ago) and it'd be a shame to never get a spiritual successor from them
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Nov 8, 2023 20:58
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There's some screen shots of ngu2 with a megaman battlenetwork looking system in this thread
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Nov 8, 2023 21:06
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I'm making my own incremental idle game and am currently thinking through what that will look like. Putting some survey questions out there:
* I should clarify with regards to multiplayer. I'm more thinking optional/passive kinda stuff. Stuff like: "PLAYER_NAME encountered RARE_THING!", global statistics, A chance to receive a short-term buff/assist from another player's "Ghost" (and if your Ghost helps someone else you get a currency spike or something). neurotech fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Nov 8, 2023 |
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Nov 8, 2023 22:17
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- I like interesting ways to make the number go up, with regular unlocks and mechanics to tend to. - I do not like multiplayer in idlers - I will pay 5-20 usd for an idler as long as there's no f2p stuff. Dlc or expansions are okay. My favorite ones are Logistical, Melvor, and Orb of Creation. I guess also Arknights but I play that for the tower defense and visual novel elements.
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Nov 8, 2023 22:59
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[*] What attracts you to, and keeps you coming back to, your favourite incremental/idle game(s)? I like number to go up. For me, I like breaking up my play into 3 flows: short term fiddling in an evening (Orb of Creation), medium term play that lasts two weeks (Ironwood RPG), and community college mastery (melvor idle). I like feeling clever in making number go up faster after pressing a few buttons and pulling a few levers. [*]How important do you think it is to have multiplayer elements in incremental/idle games?* Oh it's not, I didn't like the economy of Ironwood. I've never used the social features in any idle game. [*]Are you comfortable paying for an incremental/idle game? I paid for Melvor on sale. I put in $10 starter pack for Dungeons And Dragons Idle game. I know the story of both Drizzit and the Penny Arcade adventuring crew, but I'm absolutely not paying 10-20 bux for them. If you ain't got Genshin quality waifus then you just can't make a lootbox compelling enough for an idler. I think idle games should be to purchase whole mechanics or features, after I give you money I don't want to give you more money to make number go up more. [*] If yes: What kind of price point do you feel is appropriate? 5 bux. The Melvor folks got $15 out of me, but they have Runescape backing them up, soooooooooooo if you got runescape credentials idk maybe you could charge more. [*] If no: Why?
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Nov 8, 2023 23:45
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neurotech posted:I'm making my own incremental idle game and am currently thinking through what that will look like. Putting some survey questions out there: Every multiplayer idler us going to be gamed and there is 0% chance people won't. If you have even a modicum of popularity, people will set up discords and subreddits and boost each other or make an arky of alts. I've tried several idlers with multiplayer features and it almost always boiled down to begging my friends to visit my farmville or looking at mega guilds dominating a leaderboard and thry all sucked and I didn't stick with any of them. On the upside, I'm pretty sure thats an easy avenue for a dev to cash in, so good luck. As far as things I want in an idler: • Actual idle gameplay that doesn't take weeks to unlock. • No 24hour fixed loops, because the math on that always sucks. • As much info about the game should be communicated through clear menus/tutorials/tooltips. If you must have an external wiki/resource, make it an official one. I never want to have to track down discords/reddits/google docs to understand what the buttons in your game do. • Don't do a realm grinder and make the only proper progression an exact meta build do that I'm not playing so much as repeating a set of guided instructions. • Don't make a browser game that is so needy that you need a grease monkey script to automate it. I'm not even playing at that point. I will (and have) pay for an idle game when: • It's an up front cost for a complete client (content can be incomplete, with a roadmap). • Free client with reasonably priced ($20 or less) Starter Pack. • Expansions/DLC I won't buy: • Gameplay boosts • Any of the insane fomo/predatory monetization Idle Champs does (gently caress those guys forever)
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Nov 8, 2023 23:55
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What attracts you to, and keeps you coming back to, your favorite incremental/idle game(s)? - Interesting mechanics, unlocks, a feeling of progression, and goals to aspire to How important do you think it is to have multiplayer elements in incremental/idle games? - I would say multiplayer makes me less interested in an idle game. Are you comfortable paying for an incremental/idle game? - I am, until it becomes obviously money grubby. A pack when a new content patch comes out every few months? Sure. Boost and gatcha elements? I'll stop playing. If yes: What kind of price point do you feel is appropriate? - I think 10-20 bucks to unlock everything is my standard and I normally am willing pay. If I'm playing a game for years, like NGU, I don't mind grabbing a new pack as new content is released.
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Nov 9, 2023 00:13
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Give it Dark Souls inspired multiplayer where people can leave messages for each other like the orange soapstones
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Nov 9, 2023 00:14
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Those are some incredibly really helpful and insightful responses, thank you so much. In terms of multiplayer, I'm pretty wary of doing anything in that area in general, especially if it means that I'd have to moderate player-contributed content. There is something attractive about "passive" multiplayer where stuff happens alongside the primary singleplayer experience of the game. I like the idea of random assistance from people, or maybe some kind of "global milestone" that everyone contributes progress to by playing, which when acheived grants everyone a permanent buff of some sort. This is all theoretical of course, just spitballing really.
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Nov 9, 2023 00:35
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I'll go against the tide by saying I like multiplayer-ish stuff. I wish ironwood had a bit more, I like working toward stuff as a group. But there I have no idea what we're doing by contributing to gold/quests/events.
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Nov 9, 2023 00:53
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neurotech posted:I'm making my own incremental idle game and am currently thinking through what that will look like. Putting some survey questions out there: In order: *I like a unique theme/story when I'm playing an idler. Things like small village, universal paper clip, or melvor idle are interesting to me because I feel like if I stick with it and make the numbers go up faster I will be rewarded with seeing what changes about my operation or the world it takes place in. *Not important at all really, honestly the social element of farm RPG wore on me. I'm only interested in my individual instance as a coffee break game *I am, if it's in one chunk. Something like paying for the client up front with some unique privileges, or perhaps a upgrade/starter pack *Highest I would go is like 10 bucks, what I paid for melvor on sale
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Nov 9, 2023 01:20
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Making numbers go up and unlocking features to make more numbers go up is what makes these games grab attention. Making them go up via random drops is less fun (inventory drop with random stats sort of thing), especially if that nice loot goes away on a reset cycle. Multiplayer cooperative goals is okay with me too. Guild/clan stuff where you can achieve things as a group can be fun as long as you also have a good way of searching for random public ones from the beginning. Nothing worse than feeling like you’re not seeing part of the game because you get stuck in a group with a bunch of people who start and then ignore the game clogging up the system. Combined this with the farming game type “come give my crops a boost” thing is annoying. Relying on people to give you a boost isn’t fun unless it’s a bonus that a guild/clan could give to everyone in it. I don’t mind paying for a game either as long is it’s not combined with some FOMO event or random stuff. Pay2win in an idle game is dumb and should be avoided at all costs.
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Nov 9, 2023 01:29
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neurotech posted:I'm making my own incremental idle game and am currently thinking through what that will look like. Putting some survey questions out there: In order: - I've tried to figure this out myself, but I think what generally works is that there are continually paradigm shifts as the game goes on and overlapping systems that all work together. For me NGU is the gold standard - every system is a bit different but you can make progress in all of them and they all work with and reinforce each other. In Kittens game also, the main challenge is overcoming whatever is restricting you, like science cap or steel crafting or faith income etc. I also really like for there to be a mix of offline and active elements. I don't want to be spending hours each day on an incremental game - maybe like 10 minutes a day for normal play. At the same time, every now and then certain challenges or active interactions to pick up a specific reward or complete a certain goal is welcome. Achievements/challenges that unlock permanent rewards are nice too - feels like you've made true progress. - Don't really care about MP elements at all - Generally no. If it's a goon developed game that is good though, I will throw 10 bux at it. I would have a hard time paying up front since I would have no idea if this idle would capture me or not. But a rewards or perk pack or unlock or something I will spend on once. - $10 is about where I think my internal switch flips from "why not" to "too much".
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Nov 9, 2023 01:36
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neurotech posted:Those are some incredibly really helpful and insightful responses, thank you so much. I think knowing what someone else's number is cool. Like a Dark Souls Bloodstain for idle incremental clicker would be whatever number someone has achieved when they logged off, that's a good static social marker that people can leap frog each other. But affecting someone's else's number is uh... it perverts the incentives imidiately because fans of the genre are broken in the brain in a number way.
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Nov 9, 2023 02:15
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KirbyKhan posted:I think knowing what someone else's number is cool. Like a Dark Souls Bloodstain for idle incremental clicker would be whatever number someone has achieved when they logged off, that's a good static social marker that people can leap frog each other. Agreed regarding the "bloodstain" approach. I like that. It could just be visual fluff thing that has no bearing on an individual player's progress.
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Nov 9, 2023 02:25
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Nobody would ever call them multiplayer but I know a lot of people really like the charts showing efficiency etc for puzzle solutions in Zachtronics games. I'm not sure how well it would translate to an incremental game but it would be an interesting alternative to a leaderboard or whatever. Like "Ok I'm in at X stage of progression generating a lot of Y resource, but who's that guy in the 1% who's generating 10,000 times as much as me and how is his stuff set up to do so?"
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Nov 9, 2023 03:02
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As a more specific point, something I think is really important in an idle game is a good offline mode. This isn’t necessary in a game like Orb of Creation which is totally active, or even something like Evolve which is primarily active, but anything that expects players to leave the game open for awhile should have an offline catch-up which is reasonably accurate. In the age of climate change, it’s irresponsible to waste electricity by doing otherwise!
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Nov 9, 2023 03:12
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nrook posted:As a more specific point, something I think is really important in an idle game is a good offline mode. This isn’t necessary in a game like Orb of Creation which is totally active, or even something like Evolve which is primarily active, but anything that expects players to leave the game open for awhile should have an offline catch-up which is reasonably accurate. In the age of climate change, it’s irresponsible to waste electricity by doing otherwise! My plan for this is rather than calculating the time passed and "fast forward" the loop accordingly, is to instead have the game generate "offline currency" (1 per hour) which the player can then choose to use to make number bigger/gamble/other secret things.
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Nov 9, 2023 03:43
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Baddog posted:I'll go against the tide by saying I like multiplayer-ish stuff. It seems like a lot of modern multiplayer in this genre of game (see e.g. Super Snail) is about creating accountability of logging in to do your daily engagement clicks to avoid letting down your team and getting booted. That and encouraging you to whale along with your buddies. Frankly even introducing a chat feature and having to moderate text channels (or risk shady poo poo going down) makes me terrified of the idea of doing anything more than linking to a reddit thread or SomethingAwful where the moderation is done by others.
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Nov 9, 2023 03:58
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neurotech posted:I'm making my own incremental idle game and am currently thinking through what that will look like. Putting some survey questions out there: - The idea of unlocking new mechanics (and honestly the cheap and easy dopamine from "accomplishing" something with no effort) - Its not very important unless you're trying to add a hook to keep players playing even when they've grown bored. I've personally kinda regretted putting in so much work in the leaderboard side of things on my project since I wanted a basic level of sanity checking against people just modding their saves. I can't think of an idle game elevated by it's online component. - To pay for a game outright, it better look polished and have mechanics that aren't basic as hell. But if I put in more than one day in a phone idler, I usually get the no ads pack if it's ~9 bucks or so. I also bought a couple NGU packs.
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Nov 9, 2023 05:20
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neurotech posted:I'm making my own incremental idle game and am currently thinking through what that will look like. Putting some survey questions out there: I would like to say one thing and one thing only: no. loving. multiplayer: No guilds. No clans. No community-wide events. NO. loving LEADERBOARDS. Now, I've got to get outside so I can start yelling at the neighbor kids
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Nov 9, 2023 14:42
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neurotech posted:My plan for this is rather than calculating the time passed and "fast forward" the loop accordingly, is to instead have the game generate "offline currency" (1 per hour) which the player can then choose to use to make number bigger/gamble/other secret things. This can make it wonky and bad where you need to leave it on overnight to do some things then you need to turn it off for days or weeks because the offline currency will be the fastest way forward. It's been done and absolutely awful having to gamify when to offline.
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Nov 9, 2023 14:57
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I agree that offline progress should be exactly the same as online progress. Never have 'offline currency'. Don't make it faster or slower. Set and forget is the key to idle games. It's satisfying to set up your situation so that you don't have to touch it again for a while. If you're constantly being prompted to make a decision, then you'll get FOMO whenever you're offline, and eventually you'll just burn out and not bother anymore. Gooboo: Does anyone know what the 3rd and 4th challenges were for Pitch Black? As soon as I did the 2nd one, the last two auto-completed.
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Nov 9, 2023 17:43
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3rd one is what I'm on now and it's 500k village stone in <15m.
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Nov 9, 2023 18:04
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I love an idler with satisfying ratcheting up of mechanics that build on each other. Mechanics that eventually change into sort of an automated task like how training in NGU eventually becomes a background thing that gradually improves stats whereas at first it's a huge source of buffs that you have to juggle with the other tasks. If you made like a line graph of concurrent mechanics I'd want it to look like a series of higher plateaus with stretches of getting used to a new mechanic before you get the next thing which adds another path of progression. I think this is sorta my issue with Melvor (even though I'm still plugging away at it) because unless something changes drastically, all of the mechanics are presented to you at the start and it's just a directionless "okay now level everything up" without having any of the skills interact in a meaningful way beyond 'higher potion making lets me make potions to make leveling mining faster' or whatever. As for MP I think if done right it can be cool, I feel like Melvor could stand to use some sort of co-op clan system to contribute resources into a city or something but that's really only because it could be done to make sense in Melvor. I think shoehorning it into a game where it doesn't really make sense or making it objectively easier to complete your game if grouped up with 100 other people are my main concerns with it. Not really sure how you would manage making it a satisfying and worthwhile mechanic while not screwing over the people who aren't on reddit to get in the big clans where you get all the cool poo poo.
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Nov 9, 2023 18:19
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Xerol posted:3rd one is what I'm on now and it's 500k village stone in <15m. Are you sure? I feel like I did the 90m with <5 pickaxe craft one and this one was the next one. Maybe I actually skipped the 2nd and 4th.
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Nov 9, 2023 19:13
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dipwood posted:Are you sure? I feel like I did the 90m with <5 pickaxe craft one and this one was the next one. Maybe I actually skipped the 2nd and 4th. I think the 90m with <5 pickaxes was the second so you probably skipped the first and the fourth. The fourth one is just get 30 coal on a mining run, its a joke considering the second one is so much harder. Lilli fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Nov 9, 2023 |
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Nov 9, 2023 19:18
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Yeah the number shown at the top is the one you're currently working on, not the number completed. It confused me for a while too. And this was just after finishing the pick one, also.
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Nov 9, 2023 21:15
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It took me way too long to figure out that the thing at the top was the goal and the thing on the bottom was the restriction
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Nov 9, 2023 23:03
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I'm ambivalent about leaderboards. I loved the golden era of Xbox Arcade, I don't need that temptation to be #1. Also it's all exploiters or tryhard that make it up to visible and then for idle games like you have a rate and time.... So how does it even get defined? Best not to rank.
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Nov 10, 2023 00:28
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KirbyKhan posted:I'm ambivalent about leaderboards. I loved the golden era of Xbox Arcade, I don't need that temptation to be #1. Also it's all exploiters or tryhard that make it up to visible and then for idle games like you have a rate and time.... So how does it even get defined? Best not to rank. NGU leaderboard competition was pretty fierce on Kong.
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Nov 10, 2023 00:31
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I'm going home and being a family man
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Nov 10, 2023 00:42
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It's basically a list of people that played the first few months and haven't quit, they aren't useful for most players, but it can be good for early attachment to give some extra content in the form of PvP of sorts.
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Nov 10, 2023 00:53
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pixaal posted:It's basically a list of people that played the first few months and haven't quit, they aren't useful for most players, but it can be good for early attachment to give some extra content in the form of PvP of sorts. It's more helpful to just git gud. I don't think it was the leaderboard in NGU that gave the attachment. It was definitely the poo poo posting in chat that gave it. It's what drove early interest in Realm Grinder too, and people would just sit in the Anti-Idle chat rooms because they had done for so long. Multiplayer is good as a concept, but it's the social interaction that makes multiplayer good or bad. Ironwood has "multiplayer" but there's no interaction so it doesn't work very well. I'm interested in watching how the FAPI multiplayer test goes, but I haven't opened it up to see if it's going to give the social part that makes it good or not.
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Nov 10, 2023 01:12
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chat needs to be moderated and well coded to not allow exploits like redirecting everyone to goatse.
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Nov 10, 2023 01:26
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pixaal posted:chat needs to be moderated and well coded to not allow exploits like redirecting everyone to goatse. That's a feature, not a bug. lols Moderation and bots are the bane of any chat platform these days. Discord is not nearly as good as the Kong chats ever were. MP and chats are just so much more work to implement than is probably worth the while though, especially in a game style where it's very not necessary.
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Nov 10, 2023 01:33
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