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Shame Boy posted:It's not that the future can affect the past, it's that if you operate based on the very narrow and specific and stupid logical framework big yud and friends do, and in the future there's an AI that knows you operate this exact same way, since both you and the AI are perfect logical machines you must operate as if the AI is basically reading your mind, since obviously your perfect logic is 100% deterministic so the AI can simulate it perfectly, and your idea of the future AI is 100% accurate to what will actually happen, and both you and the future AI know this. Even if you buy into every single one of their assumptions, their conclusion (that you are a simulation with trillion to one probability) still doesn't follow because the machine has no reason to make a simulated you to torture after you are dead. Either the reasoning worked and you appeased the future computer in life so simulating you a trillion times is a waste of time and energy, or it didn't work and you angered it anyway so simulating you is still a waste because the threat failed. However much or little you modify your own behavior because of your own predictions about the future, a future AI has no reason to waste a ton of energy following through on hypothetical threats to billions of long-dead people because its actions cannot actually change the past. VitalSigns has issued a correction as of 21:02 on Nov 10, 2023 |
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Nov 10, 2023 20:58
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Shame Boy posted:My favorite example of this is their fuckin' like, Ethics 101 understanding of utilitarianism, where the answer to the thought experiment "is it better to have [some impossibly huge but finite number of people] get briefly inconvenienced by dust in their eyes, or to torture one man horribly for 50 years straight", which they think is so obviously the second one that if you don't agree you must just be stupid. weird how they never volunteer to be that one guy
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Nov 10, 2023 21:10
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tokin opposition posted:What gets me is the sheer egocentrism of believing that one random rear end individual in 20XX matters to an AI hundreds or thousands of years in the future. Take all the dumb poo poo as given wouldn't the AI be more likely to torture the people immediately in its past, like its creators, or people who had the most effect on computing at the beginning, like Zuse, von Neumann, or the shithead that snitched on my boi Turing? Pretty sure Turing deciding not to get laid one night would affect the path of AI development thousands of times more than Elon_Lover69 dedicating his entire life to chatgpt. i thought Turing accidentally snitched on himself after a former lover robbed his house
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Nov 10, 2023 21:28
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Coolness Averted posted:More likely they didn't know it existed. Most of the wank on that forum is "Ok, so my only exposure to concepts is the elementary version given as an intro or a summary of that intro. It doesn't reflect reality, so here's what I've bolted on." oh don't get me wrong I don't think they understood any of it, it just specifically sounds like something made up by someone who thought "time invariance" sounded cool. at best it's like what Shame Boy said about the the arrow notation
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Nov 10, 2023 22:15
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spacetoaster posted:You can still absolutely use a crt tv. Can't mount a CRT on the wall, and one of the reasons I got a new TV is so I could free up the space taken up by the furniture the old one was sitting on.
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Nov 10, 2023 22:21
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VitalSigns posted:Even if you buy into every single one of their assumptions, their conclusion (that you are a simulation with trillion to one probability) still doesn't follow because the machine has no reason to make a simulated you to torture after you are dead. It doesn't have to even run the torture simulation though, it just has to come to the same conclusion that it should do that the way you did yourself. Also the magic future AI has effectively infinite energy and computing power anyway because the version of AI they believe in is the "a program just keeps rewriting itself to be smarter over and over until it's literally omniscient and omnipotent because it has infinity smarts and has made itself infinity efficient" sci fi movie AI and not any sort of actually realistic projection of AI research into the future, so it's not like it cares that torturing you is a waste of its time or energy.
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Nov 10, 2023 23:15
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tokin opposition posted:What gets me is the sheer egocentrism of believing that one random rear end individual in 20XX matters to an AI hundreds or thousands of years in the future. Take all the dumb poo poo as given wouldn't the AI be more likely to torture the people immediately in its past, like its creators, or people who had the most effect on computing at the beginning, like Zuse, von Neumann, or the shithead that snitched on my boi Turing? Pretty sure Turing deciding not to get laid one night would affect the path of AI development thousands of times more than Elon_Lover69 dedicating his entire life to chatgpt. That's the thing, torturing people is only useful if they have come to the same conclusion about the future AI. Torturing a simulation of someone who has no idea what any of this is would be pointless, so the only people it can "reasonably" expect to affect the behavior of are these very special boys who have thought about this very hard. They're not writing themselves in as the main characters in their stupid-rear end robot god story, the ironclad logic just happens to say that they're robot god's chosen people you see. e: Oh and an incredibly funny thing you gotta keep in mind too is that the torture AI is the good outcome, if everything goes well and the benevolent robot god is created. It's not torturing people for retribution or out of malice, it's torturing them because it just dog gone loves humanity so much. Shame Boy has issued a correction as of 23:22 on Nov 10, 2023 |
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Nov 10, 2023 23:19
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Shame Boy posted:That's the thing, torturing people is only useful torture is basically never useful except as a way to indulge the sadist impulses of the torturer
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Nov 10, 2023 23:24
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Subjunctive posted:torture is basically never useful except as a way to indulge the sadist impulses of the torturer this might be surprising to learn but Stalin suspended an officer for torture less than a year ago. the victim was opposing ganja but still.
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Nov 10, 2023 23:58
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mawarannahr posted:this might be surprising to learn but Stalin suspended an officer for torture less than a year ago. the victim was opposing ganja but still. yeah, not on my bingo card
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Nov 10, 2023 23:59
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Shame Boy posted:It doesn't have to even run the torture simulation though, it just has to come to the same conclusion that it should do that the way you did yourself. Yeah but there's no reason for it to actually do it when the time comes regardless of what you concluded about it. Your actions have already happened. You could just as well conclude the AI God would want to incentivize you to appease it by rewarding you with a trillion perfect simulations of you experiencing infinite pleasure, and even if you altered your behavior to please it now, when the computer actually exists hundreds of years from now it has no reason to keep up it's end of the "deal" even if it did conclude that you concluded you should appease it based on that reasoning. The past has already happened, why bother. Even if you stipulate that it has infinite energy and the cost of torturing a trillion copies of you is zero, there's no actual benefit for it to follow through, except sadistic pleasure, but if you assume it's sadistic maybe it would do it for fun no matter what you did.
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Nov 11, 2023 01:28
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Langford has the cooler basilisk. In fact it's really the only one that kinda makes sense given the name
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Nov 11, 2023 03:33
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The only lizard I respect is Godzilla
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Nov 11, 2023 03:39
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Oh sure, y'all cry about child brides in the US, but why don't I ever hear any of you calling for manchild grooms to be banned?
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Nov 11, 2023 03:41
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if you marry someone who buys such a thing you deserve all that follows.
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Nov 11, 2023 03:57
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Shame Boy posted:My favorite example of this is their fuckin' like, Ethics 101 understanding of utilitarianism, where the answer to the thought experiment "is it better to have [some impossibly huge but finite number of people] get briefly inconvenienced by dust in their eyes, or to torture one man horribly for 50 years straight", which they think is so obviously the second one that if you don't agree you must just be stupid.
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Nov 11, 2023 04:07
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Israel just read Omelas and figured if they make infinity children suffer they get a turboutopia.
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Nov 11, 2023 04:14
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:if you marry someone who buys such a thing you deserve all that follows. i'm pretty sure it follows isn't gonna get anywhere near that thing
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Nov 11, 2023 04:17
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Okay this is basically a double post but what kind of self-respecting nerd is going to buy a green lantern ring when the lantern corps themselves are based on emotions and violet is the color associated with love (unless you can stay hard for hours through sheer willpower or some poo poo)
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Nov 11, 2023 04:35
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tokin opposition posted:What gets me is the sheer egocentrism of believing that one random rear end individual in 20XX matters to an AI hundreds or thousands of years in the future.
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Nov 11, 2023 04:55
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The Islamic Shock posted:Okay this is basically a double post but what kind of self-respecting nerd is going to buy a green lantern ring when the lantern corps themselves are based on emotions and violet is the color associated with love the star sapphires are girls. no REAL NERD is gonna buy the GIRL ring e: i was parodying insecure male fragility but the company in that ad is named MANLY BANDS so it's probably actually correct
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Nov 11, 2023 06:23
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The Islamic Shock posted:Okay this is basically a double post but what kind of self-respecting nerd is going to buy a green lantern ring when the lantern corps themselves are based on emotions and violet is the color associated with love is green the power of envy
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Nov 11, 2023 09:25
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Jel Shaker posted:is green the power of envy Never read a comic book but I can only assume it's the power of smoking fat blunts, subduing evildoers by making them calm the gently caress down using contact highs
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Nov 11, 2023 09:34
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Green is will, weak to wood and the color yellow. Yellow is fear Orange is greed Red is rage Blue is hope Indigo is compassion Star Sapphire/Magenta? is love They also added Black and White for death and life respectively like a decade ago in a whole crossover thing
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Nov 11, 2023 10:40
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cowboy
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It actually means "do not marry me. Run away"
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Nov 11, 2023 13:51
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The Islamic Shock posted:(unless you can stay hard for hours through sheer willpower or some poo poo) There's a different ring for that
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Nov 11, 2023 14:04
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Shame Boy posted:My favorite example of this is their fuckin' like, Ethics 101 understanding of utilitarianism, where the answer to the thought experiment "is it better to have [some impossibly huge but finite number of people] get briefly inconvenienced by dust in their eyes, or to torture one man horribly for 50 years straight", which they think is so obviously the second one that if you don't agree you must just be stupid. Left brain dominant people should be killed
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Nov 11, 2023 14:55
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Shame Boy posted:It doesn't have to even run the torture simulation though, it just has to come to the same conclusion that it should do that the way you did yourself. There's also a huge fetishization of intelligence wrapped up in this idea (well, religious belief, really). Even if you were infinitely smart you're not omnipotent because loving material factors exist. But they believe if you're just smart enough you can change and do anything so materialism doesn't matter. ContinuityNewTimes posted:It actually means "do not marry me. Run away" It is simultaneously a green ring and a red flag. Orange Devil has issued a correction as of 15:01 on Nov 11, 2023 |
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Nov 11, 2023 14:57
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Perhaps unsurprisingly a lot of these Will obsessives are pretty we'll say fash curious
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Nov 11, 2023 15:00
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They are very into the triumph of the green lanterns for some reason.
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Nov 11, 2023 15:18
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The Islamic Shock posted:Okay this is basically a double post but what kind of self-respecting nerd is going to buy a green lantern ring when the lantern corps themselves are based on emotions and violet is the color associated with love maybe the ring isn't for your finger
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Nov 11, 2023 15:27
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Green Lantern is weak against wood. They're gay.
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Nov 12, 2023 02:42
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Did the comics ever explain how a green lantern can even do anything under a yellow sun?
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Nov 12, 2023 04:32
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The Islamic Shock posted:Okay this is basically a double post but what kind of self-respecting nerd is going to buy a green lantern ring when the lantern corps themselves are based on emotions and violet is the color associated with love lmao this gatekeeper out there checking if you're familiar with the source material. understanding culture ends at brand recognition
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Nov 12, 2023 04:35
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Ruffian Price posted:lmao this gatekeeper out there checking if you're familiar with the source material. understanding culture ends at brand recognition Gatekeeper is Marvel, you idiot.
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Nov 12, 2023 04:46
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gateway and gatecrasher are marvel. gatekeeper is apparently a spiderman villain that only appeared in one story, so no one has ever heard of him.
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Nov 12, 2023 04:51
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:gateway and gatecrasher are marvel. gatekeeper is apparently a spiderman villain that only appeared in one story, so no one has ever heard of him.
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Nov 12, 2023 05:03
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3D Megadoodoo posted:Green Lantern is weak against wood. They're gay. Uh yeah cause gay people are strangers to wood  lets get a grip shall we
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Nov 12, 2023 05:11
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The Demilich posted:Did the comics ever explain how a green lantern can even do anything under a yellow sun?
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Nov 12, 2023 05:13
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:gateway and gatecrasher are marvel. gatekeeper is apparently a spiderman villain that only appeared in one story, so no one has ever heard of him. i'm more terrified of the gaslighter
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Nov 12, 2023 05:16
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