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Not sure if they've changed it since, but when going through Heavensward originally they kept referencing several moons (months) passing between patches, such as going from 3.0 to 3.1 or 3.3 to 3.4, not to mention that one couple with a continually updating patch storyline that went from 'first meeting' to by the end of the expansion 'had a baby together'.
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Nov 12, 2023 11:19
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Wow's timeline isn't quite "real-time" so much as "each expansion took about a year in Azeroth time and there's some time skips between specific ones".
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Nov 12, 2023 11:21
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FFXIV keeps the timeline hazy and thus so do I. My own WoL, Sami, started her adventure in her Vague Early 20's and is now in her Vague Late 20's / Early 30's. Maybe a few years have passed, maybe upwards of ten have passed, what matters is that my WoL has grown more mature with each expansion and addition to her storyline. Doman Restoration might be somewhat light on story but it gives you the opportunity to make a lasting and physical positive change on the setting, and I'm a massive sucker for that. Now, granted, I would've loved to have some manner of Ala Mhigan Restoration, perhaps desperately so given how much I grew attached to the place, but I'll still accept Doman Restoration as a job well done.
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Nov 12, 2023 14:28
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Yeah, as someone who missed the building up of the end game hubs of ARR and HW, it's nice that it's something you can still do and see as a new player. Even if it's not a hub, but still somewhere you go occasionally for the MSQ. Shame they didn't do it again in Shadowbringers with the Ishgard restoration, which we saw how it was like for a new player back in the HW thread.
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Nov 12, 2023 14:49
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Time passing in FFXIV works exactly the same as in real life. The seasons pass in a blink of an eye, another year has almost passed already. But 2017 was just a couple years go, 2020 was like a year ago, and Random Access Memories is still the new Daft Punk album, and you are still young.
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Nov 12, 2023 15:01
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The FFXIV timeline is deliberately fuzzy and tbh I am fine with that. It defies being put on a spreadsheet and plotted out for the One True Timeline Of How Long This Took, but it makes everyone's journey through the story more personal, in my opinion. We exist somewhere vaguely 5 years after Bahamut, and the rest is up to you. Going by my own playthrough pace and how much it feels like happened, I give about a year in-game time to each expansion, and if I show up and someone says they're more or less the same age as when I last interacted with them 4 real world years ago, welp, no biggie, MSQ Time and Sidequest Time are not always one-to-one congruent in my experience (see the whole Estinien thing), so I can reconcile it. Other than that, Doman Restoration was one of my favorite bits of Stormblood side content. It was so good to see the Doman refugee's story be continued and to be there for the reconstruction of something in-game. I loved the Ishgard Restoration and was there for all of it live, but I absolutely sympathize with people who are coming to it now with everything finished.
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Nov 12, 2023 15:06
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I continue to maintain the stance that, contrary to any and all evidence, the entirety of FF14 has taken place over the course of a single day.
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Nov 12, 2023 15:42
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I still remember whe ln Revenant's Toll was mostly some tents. It's sad most players nowadays missed watching ut turn into the bustling adventurer capital on the cusp of becoming a City-State that could eventually join Limsa Lominsa and the others.
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Nov 12, 2023 16:00
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Lord_Magmar posted:The Viera* are almost straight up just Warhammer Fantasy Battle/Warcraft 3 wood/night elves but with bunny ears in terms of what's going on. (Violently isolationist forest defenders with extended lifespans and mystical nature connections). *A small conservative faction of one half of their cultures
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Nov 12, 2023 17:28
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The best thing about the race lore is that none of it matters to your character and you can ignore it all
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Nov 12, 2023 17:35
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FuturePastNow posted:The best thing about the race lore is that none of it matters to your character and you can ignore it all Especially for Viera (except the lifespan) because you're literally an exile by default for leaving. But it's still neat to know.
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Nov 12, 2023 17:38
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FuturePastNow posted:The best thing about the race lore is that none of it matters to your character and you can ignore it all "Navigator's tits, you can't just assume I like fish just because I'm a Miqo'te!" "...sure, it's true, but you can't just assume it!"
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Nov 12, 2023 17:40
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You're not an exile if you don't want to be. That's my point. Your character background is entirely up to you. Lore can and should be ignored when it is dumb, but now we're in thread derail territory so I'll go away
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Nov 12, 2023 17:42
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Lord_Magmar posted:Especially for Viera (except the lifespan) because you're literally an exile by default for leaving. But it's still neat to know. Unless you're among the large group of viera that live outside Golmore and have literally never been there. Don't do racial essentialism you weirdo. It's by definition the conservative faction of them because a lot of them leave or just live and are born in places that aren't the small deepwoods village that are 100% Viera. You're trying to apply racial stereotypes that exist in a small portion of the world to a group of people that live at this point almost everywhere.
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Nov 12, 2023 17:45
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Chronometry posted:"Navigator's tits, you can't just assume I like fish just because I'm a Miqo'te!" If I recall correctly, in FFXI, the Mithra (catgirl race the Miqo'te are based on) were the only race who could (mechanically, in game) eat raw fish. Kazy fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Nov 12, 2023 |
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Nov 12, 2023 17:46
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:*A small conservative faction of one half of their cultures Rava and Veena share this so of the options you can pick at character select it's not one-half. They're split primarily by region, not culture, in the character creation. (This is reductionist but so are all the character creation options, which in the case of Elezen don't even provide options that exist outside of Gridania—Ishgardian and Sharlayan Elezen are lore-wise distinct groups that both predate the Wildwood/Duskwight split even if both use existing models.)
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Nov 12, 2023 17:58
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Like Clockwork posted:Rava and Veena share this so of the options you can pick at character select it's not one-half. They're split primarily by region, not culture, in the character creation. It's still not true even if you're from the regions they're from because a lot of them live outside the deepwoods in the many cities that make up the greater region. Golmore jungle is contained inside a nation wholly and there's many non-viera woodswalker cities inside the jungle. So even with it on both it's not inherently part of anyones culture, even if you're a viera from Golmore. But more details are spoilers so this continued into the spoiler thread.
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Nov 12, 2023 18:03
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The entire point of my post was that even the character creation is reductionist about the cultures you're able to select from and you were also wrong about the thing you pointed out. Which isn't spoilers, this is literally just the character select lore you were wrong about. Like, it's very obvious that not everyone adheres to traditional lifestyles even in the more common to this point races (we have multiple Roegadyn who aren't pirates or mercenaries, and most of the Miqo'te don't live traditionally), that doesn't make it wrong to point out cultural aspects that the game pointedly gives specific groups at character creation when discussing them.
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Nov 12, 2023 18:12
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Like Clockwork posted:The entire point of my post was that even the character creation is reductionist about the cultures you're able to select from and you were also wrong about the thing you pointed out. Which isn't spoilers, this is literally just the character select lore you were wrong about. Yeah but it wasn't character creation being talked about it was the race at large and even in game what we see about them that doesn't hold true for those in Eorzea for the individuals we meet. Which is true about basically every single race in the game as as such I don't even think it's useful to point that info out in discussions because the game says one thing then immedietly does something different with everyone you meet.
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Nov 12, 2023 18:17
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FuturePastNow posted:You're not an exile if you don't want to be. That's my point. Your character background is entirely up to you. Lore can and should be ignored when it is dumb, but now we're in thread derail territory so I'll go away I was agreeing with you, to be clear. I was saying you can ignore everything about the Viera lore except for the lifespan bit, and using the obvious example of the exile thing as something you can completely ignore if you want. I cannot believe me trying to agree with a post about Viera lore not being necessary to follow for any given character led to the discussion it did in the actual spoiler chat btw. I should have checked this thread first. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Nov 12, 2023 |
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Nov 12, 2023 18:36
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I sort of like that this storyline has the FACTS and LOGIC (plus the strength of a personal connection - this racist dude can't really want to lose his daughter over this) winning out, honestly. It's certainly not the most common outcome of course, and as we've all experienced this sort of thing effectively never works in say, talking to a stranger online. But I have had a rare and precious few cases where talking to someone personally, who you have some ground work with, has done some good. And I'd argue the dad is in some ways well-positioned to make progress. When you're in a situation like his, where the kindness of other people has helped you a lot in hard times, I think you can be sort of balanced on a knife-edge where you might double down on bigotry to salvage some pride, or you might reconsider it, and some relatively small gestures might tip the scales. It's a bit of contrast from full racist screed to this, but when you're telling a side-story quickly like this, I think that's understandable. Also, I think there's some virtue to reminding people who might be in the position of the racist dad that in fact you can change, and your loved ones will accept it and be happy with it. When we're talking about a side story in a game which, as you point out, uses a lot of its story beats to really drill down on how insidious and bad racism can be, I think having a side story that also just says "look you can just be different, and people in your life will help and give you chances," that does have some genuine value. I think a surprising number of folks might see themselves in the racist dad and have kept playing. Not saying anyone's impression is wrong or anything, it's definitely abrupt and feels kind of Saturday-morning. I was just thinking during it that maybe in the context of the game as a whole that's okay.
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Nov 12, 2023 19:06
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Ultiville posted:I sort of like that this storyline has the FACTS and LOGIC (plus the strength of a personal connection - this racist dude can't really want to lose his daughter over this) winning out, honestly. I think the problem is mainly that the whole twist came in at the 11th hour. It could have worked with some more focus on the elements you're talking about here, but then it would have needed to be about this topic much earlier on. Throwing it in as a last minute speedbump to the happy ending was a weird as hell move.
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Nov 12, 2023 20:02
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Kazy posted:If I recall correctly, in FFXI, the Mithra (catgirl race the Miqo'te are based on) were the only race who could (mechanically, in game) eat raw fish. these days everyone's allowed to have sushi
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Nov 12, 2023 20:35
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Sanguinia posted:I think the problem is mainly that the whole twist came in at the 11th hour. It could have worked with some more focus on the elements you're talking about here, but then it would have needed to be about this topic much earlier on. Throwing it in as a last minute speedbump to the happy ending was a weird as hell move. Yeah normally these quests go the opposite way, where you think an unbridgeable gap exists and then you discover something more sensible is going on. In this case, they decided to go from making him look like a snob to, no, he's actually just a racist. And not the subtle sort of racist either, he's a full on 'no miscegenation,' Doman supremacist. But considering how ingrained that sort of thinking is in certain parts of Japanese society, maybe they didn't feel they could be subtle about it.
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Nov 12, 2023 20:43
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I am a big believer in the studies that show that exposure to Otherized Groups starts to break down prejudice very quickly, so I'm not opposed in theory to a story about busting through a supremacists' mental bulwarks and helping them see that their beliefs are monsterous despite the jokes in the chapter. But this story was a little extreme on the speed and efficacy of the method 
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Nov 12, 2023 20:50
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sweet geek swag posted:Yeah normally these quests go the opposite way, where you think an unbridgeable gap exists and then you discover something more sensible is going on. In this case, they decided to go from making him look like a snob to, no, he's actually just a racist. And not the subtle sort of racist either, he's a full on 'no miscegenation,' Doman supremacist. But considering how ingrained that sort of thinking is in certain parts of Japanese society, maybe they didn't feel they could be subtle about it. It is one of the most 'Japanese form of X is cool and unique' of the DoH quests, so I wouldn't be surprised.
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Nov 12, 2023 20:58
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"My son-in-law is one of the good ones," is where I believe this guy has landed.
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Nov 12, 2023 21:05
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clearly the message is: soup
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Nov 12, 2023 21:20
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It is pretty funny how quickly he swings from "Your blood isn't pure enough for our family" to "drat, this soup is fire."
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Nov 12, 2023 21:26
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I don't know, I felt like out of all the stories of prejudice in this game that this one was pretty relatable. The average player has probably encountered someone more like that dad than a real life Gridania. Obviously something like Pixar's Elemental does a better job at telling this kind of story, but compressing it into five quests about cooking obviously takes priority. As far as regional biases, I think the writers have done a good job making the game feel not Japanese in origin (I've sometimes advertised it as "like if a western game was loaded with JRPG references") but this discussion is probably predominately North Americans whose countries were colonized from the original owners of the land not very long ago. If your country is so old that it has it's own mythology about it's origins, then a story saying "your nation and your people are not so loving special, you're just humans" is probably more necessary. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Nov 12, 2023 |
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Nov 12, 2023 22:00
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Kerrzhe posted:clearly the message is: soup WHY ARE YOU BUYING CLOTHES AT THE SOUP STORE?!
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Nov 12, 2023 22:00
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:It is pretty funny how quickly he swings from "Your blood isn't pure enough for our family" to "drat, this soup is fire." In an xpac with many pacing issues, having the CUL quest go from racist to soup! right at the end didn't really phase me. I'll just chalk it up to CUL being the most powerful job Building up the Doman area was great even though it did kinda avoid the meatier issue between toolsmith and paper guy. Like yeah Doma is a mess but it'll all get better if we just work at it. After doing the Big Fight of an xpac it's nice to have a fairly low stakes Thing to do and it's probably the best time for unrealistically positive (and rapid lol) outcomes. It's really sad that new players can't experience Ishgard Restoration with everyone since I think it was more exciting and uplifting then actually finishing HW proper. CUL winning top spot on my home server makes it all the better because the best way to move past eternal war is to focus on the least martial profession.
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Nov 12, 2023 22:26
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Sanguinia posted:WHY ARE YOU BUYING CLOTHES AT THE SOUP STORE?! Where else am I going to pick this baby up? 
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Nov 12, 2023 22:26
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Craptacular! posted:I don't know, I felt like out of all the stories of prejudice in this game that this one was pretty relatable. The average player has probably encountered someone more like that dad than a real life Gridania. I think the Japanese context is relevant for sure, but there are Americans who also think our country is vastly more special and perfect than others, even if they don't think it's because everything about it is 100% native like this guy does. Though there sure are some people who seem to not understand the US's short history either, like the unironic "if English was good enough for Jesus" crew.
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Nov 12, 2023 22:46
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Random mechanical tidbit: if you just hit level 70 before this, the CUL quest will give you a crazy 97% of the experience toward 71. Presumably this is the same for all the other L70 crafter quests, but CUL is where I actually went and calculated it.
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Nov 12, 2023 23:18
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I was always a bit disappointed that we can go sun cat villages in the Ul'dah and Ala Mhigo maps, but never really got any moon cat settlements in the Gridania maps. There's that moon cat poacher group but that's not really the same and they're also organized like a sun cat tribe for some reason so we never really get much in-game insight into moon cat culture so far. It would be cool if off in some corners of the black shroud maps you could find some small settlement or something.
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Nov 13, 2023 10:53
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It would also be nice to have a Duskwight settlement for similar reasons.
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Nov 13, 2023 11:31
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They should add a whole town where Gelmorra used to be. Someone clears some rubble like 50ft away from PotD and find a few hundred Duskwights just chilling. They got no clue the world nearly ended like 5 times in the past 5 years. "Bahamut? Oh, so that's what those earthquakes were all about. Man, it sure sucks to be you surface-dwellers, huh? Anyway can you block up that hole again? We're good down here."
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Nov 13, 2023 15:08
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Sadly the Palace of the Dead is set in most of Gelmorra, so that is not an option. Its kind of funny, Gelmorra was set to be a big deal in 1.0, but plans changed and it mostly fall to the wayside.
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Nov 13, 2023 16:29
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My own character is a Duskwight with a whole "identifies as a Gelmorran despite that being a completely defunct identity" schtick, and I wish we got more or like, any lore about it (PotD kinda veers into the crossover stuff so it doesn't really properly get into it).
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Nov 13, 2023 16:59
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