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Wanderer
Nov 5, 2006

our every move is the new tradition
There's an interesting series from Rebellion right now where Garth Ennis and a bunch of other 2000 AD writers like Mills and Rob Williams are doing new stories with a bunch of those old British war comics.

https://2000ad.com/news/new-battle-action-series-coming-may-2023/

Ennis did a couple of Hellman stories, and tries to square that circle with a piece where Hellman and a few loyalists, after seeing a death camp for themselves, are making a suicide run into Berlin at the end of the war to kill Hitler.

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Frog Act
Feb 10, 2012



Wanderer posted:

There's an interesting series from Rebellion right now where Garth Ennis and a bunch of other 2000 AD writers like Mills and Rob Williams are doing new stories with a bunch of those old British war comics.

https://2000ad.com/news/new-battle-action-series-coming-may-2023/

Ennis did a couple of Hellman stories, and tries to square that circle with a piece where Hellman and a few loyalists, after seeing a death camp for themselves, are making a suicide run into Berlin at the end of the war to kill Hitler.

Yeah it looks cool! I heard about it only with the recent prog featuring Major Eazy and the Sarge since I don’t follow the actual magazine, it’s just too hard to find/subscribe to in the US. That being said I hadn’t heard about a Hellman revival being part of it, so thank you for posting it! my interest is piqued, though honestly I’m deeply skeptical about the character, his history and context, and any attempt to make him legible and enjoyable for a modern audience without also perpetuating the clean Wehrmacht framing that permeates the original run.

Death Squad is also fairly problematic, but not in an almost reasonable documentary way like Darkie’s Mob, which mostly avoids overt racial caricatures in the art, though I think that mostly is like a very slim majority of the art and doesn’t extend to the dialect and stuff. InDeath Squad, on the other hand, Ezquerra often can’t seem to restrain himself from rendering Soviet soldiers as Asiatic barbarians in a way that feels borderline cribbed from Der Sturmer. It’s not 100% and there are infrequent Russian foes or characters drawn in a more normative (white) way, but the moments where it happens were very noticeable. This weird confluence of the Cold War, increasing chronological distance from the crimes of the third reich, old fashioned western racism, and spectacular artists/writers trying to produce something new and comparatively transgressive or unique within the parameters of war stories the public would consume created some pretty bizarre and discursively harmful stuff. I’m just not sure Ennis is even remotely capable of parsing the things necessary to tell a story like that (his intro to Darkie’s Mob sucks) but I definitely intend to find out!

Big Bad Voodoo Lou
Jan 1, 2006
Is anyone reading What's the Furthest Place from Here? I recently read the first two TPBs, and it is haunting. It blends the mundanity of youth with post-apocalyptic mystery and cruelty. Tyler Boss' art is so atmospheric, it really helps create a sense of place.

What do others think of it?

Heavy Metal
Sep 1, 2014

America's $1 Funnyman

Alrighty, I've read a bunch of the Marvel and DC threads tonight, lotta interesting talk about the decades of comics and trends and stuff.

Now, can we get some passionate takes going about indie comics, that's the question. I guess we like 'em, we read 'em, that's about it. Are there some angles to generate some more glorious thread content here.

Anyways, I enjoy reading folks wax comic philosophical.

For example, there was talk on the quality of Marvel comics 20 years ago versus now etc. I think for Indie comics the early 2000s is really underrated, even the late 90s Image books etc are underrated. But it seems pretty unanimous we mostly agree the great titles were fewer, and there are more notable indies to choose from now.

Right now we have a good thing going at Image where there are lots of mash-up drama/sci-fi/fantasy/action/violent crime thing with serialized and cinematic TV ready pitches. And they tend to last like 40 issues tops sometimes. There's a really wide variety of them, but it also feels like some of the scope can have a uniformity or a limit, almost like a house style. Sort of like Vertigo had, Image is like a quasi-Vertigo or something in a way. With the 20% that are more like meme wacky concepts mixed in like what if a Hot Rod granted wishes and you had to eat some weird stuff to see the future or something. And there's a dark evil Sherlock Holmes in modern day who's stalking the neighborhood kids. Just as an example.

So I love Image, and the other indie publishers, but when I look through the solicits and preview pages over the years I wonder if there's something akin to a rut, even with all the cool titles we get anyway.

And the talk of how manga has a wider variety of stuff still, and more slice of life, sports, various topics people find fun and romance etc etc. Not 1 to 1 like that, but I do think we could see more variety in some of these kind of ways in American indie comics too.

I'll say in general, to me, even as somebody who enjoys like Fist of the North Star and Nightmare on Elm Street, I'm mostly turning down pitches that are super grim and gory or featuring gross-out and horror elements. I even like those very elements in comics sometimes, but it feels like the default setting in some Image comics is graphic nightmare of some kind. And the main reprieve from that is if it's one of the really irreverent books about a Donkey who farts dreams you go into or something. Just a kooky example, but it reminds me a little of the gross-out trends that were popular in the 90s or something.

And it's always a fantasy or sci-fi book, or a really high concept wild setting involving gods and stuff. Let me wet my beek a bit here with a seemingly less convoluted world or vibe.

Here's what I want, here's what everyone (maybe) wants from a first issue. Cowboy Bebop, Lupin the Third (the anime versions), just give me fun cool characters I want to get to know. And they're doing something cool, or fun, and it seems grounded enough yet stylish that it doesn't feel like hodgepodgy madness. Usually when I'm reading a couple 6 pages previews or flipping through a book at a store, it's to see if there's anything enticing or relatable like that for example.

And that's just one example, it could also introduce me to one or two characters who are riveting like a good novel would, and maybe some romance, etc etc. Just to throw a few rambling general ideas out there in the spirit of comic rambling outside of Marvel/DC. Just feel we could have a wider variety of stuff and some things that grab me more in some ways, even though we have great titles.

Heavy Metal fucked around with this message at 11:20 on Oct 9, 2023

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Difficult to make a passionate statement about indie comics when my eyes glazed over about one paragraph into that rant.

Indie comics, as you say, tend to come in runs that are both shorter and finite. This means they have to hit the ground running if there is any world building to do. Stumptown, for example, is a basic hardboiled detective story (or series of same) and so it can take its sweet time to develop more character. At the other end you have things like Paper Girls and The Wicked and the Divine where there is a seismic change to the world and that has to be dealt with immediately or the story cannot progress.

It was no less a light than HG Wells who said that all science fiction was either about extraordinary people in an ordinary world or ordinary people in an extraordinary world. If you want the former then you have to explain how the extraordinary person became that way; if you want the latter, then you have to explore the world so that the characters have something to react to.

(In case you're wondering: a story about extraordinary people in an extraordinary world is fantasy.)

Heavy Metal
Sep 1, 2014

America's $1 Funnyman

Jedit posted:

Difficult to make a passionate statement about indie comics when my eyes glazed over about one paragraph into that rant.

It's a ramble. Let me ask you this Jedit. We both like say Discworld, 2000AD, and posting on SA. Why be insulting to another fine poster? Like I mentioned, I just read and enjoyed many pages of posts here, I didn't insult any of them, if I found somebody's ramble too long or unrelatable or something I didn't feel a need to tell them such. It's just fodder to work with or not work with, be nice.

Also, I've been cooped up from COVID for a week, and I'm thinking about the many possibilities of comics, call me crazy. And I'm articulating some trends I've seen across the many many Image titles etc, not that every title is like that. There are of course successful books in different styles too. But I think what's funny, is the idea is to get more people throwing out their takes and rambles I guess is my idea, like we see in Marvel/DC in a way. The main mode ideally not being to see a post and say hey it's boring and dumb, that's not really the point. Throw out your own wild rambles too, that's a challenge.

Heavy Metal fucked around with this message at 12:09 on Oct 9, 2023

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Heavy Metal posted:

It's a ramble. Let me ask you this Jedit. We both like say Discworld, 2000AD, and posting on SA. Why be insulting to another fine poster? Like I mentioned, I just read and enjoyed many pages of posts here, I didn't insult any of them, if I found somebody's ramble too long or unrelatable or something I didn't feel a need to tell them such. It's just fodder to work with or not work with, be nice.

Sorry, I'm just tired and it's making me short. Been on my feet for four days and now I'm in airport Limbo, queuing for 20 minutes to drop off my luggage to be told drop off wasn't open yet even though the board said it was, you know the drill.

Heavy Metal
Sep 1, 2014

America's $1 Funnyman

Right on, good luck over there!

uggy
Aug 6, 2006

Posting is SERIOUS BUSINESS
and I am completely joyless

Don't make me judge you

Heavy Metal posted:

It's a ramble. Let me ask you this Jedit. We both like say Discworld, 2000AD, and posting on SA. Why be insulting to another fine poster? Like I mentioned, I just read and enjoyed many pages of posts here, I didn't insult any of them, if I found somebody's ramble too long or unrelatable or something I didn't feel a need to tell them such. It's just fodder to work with or not work with, be nice.

Also, I've been cooped up from COVID for a week, and I'm thinking about the many possibilities of comics, call me crazy. And I'm articulating some trends I've seen across the many many Image titles etc, not that every title is like that. There are of course successful books in different styles too. But I think what's funny, is the idea is to get more people throwing out their takes and rambles I guess is my idea, like we see in Marvel/DC in a way. The main mode ideally not being to see a post and say hey it's boring and dumb, that's not really the point. Throw out your own wild rambles too, that's a challenge.

you're writing like the sea lion

huh weird i read your posts and like them cause we like the same things, why mean to me? can't we be cordial, i'm just pontificating

Comics are the best they've ever been cause it's not just white dudes writing them and there's a plethora of options to choose from.

Endless Mike
Aug 13, 2003



20 yeas ago I walked up to booth at a comic convention for Brian Michael Bendis and David Mack with exactly one person chatting with them and bought Powers vol 2 and had BMB sign it

That's my 20 Years Ago indie comics story I hope you liked it

Heavy Metal
Sep 1, 2014

America's $1 Funnyman

Powers was hip for a minute.

uggy posted:

you're writing like the sea lion

huh weird i read your posts and like them cause we like the same things, why mean to me? can't we be cordial, i'm just pontificating

Uh huh, well at least you enjoy what you're doing, whatever it is. It's pretty lovely though.

It also seems like you didn't really read the post, which is fine. I pointed out I agree indie comics are overall better now, and just roasted some stylistic trends and tropes as one part of a few random topics I threw out there.

Heavy Metal fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Oct 9, 2023

Llamadeus
Dec 20, 2005

Heavy Metal posted:

So I love Image, and the other indie publishers, but when I look through the solicits and preview pages over the years I wonder if there's something akin to a rut, even with all the cool titles we get anyway.
Isn't the problem here that you're mainly talking about Image and the direct market in general? If you zoom out a bit to western comics as a whole you can surely find "slice of life, sports, various topics people find fun and romance etc", the most popular western comic of recent years is the romance comic Heartstopper for instance.

Heavy Metal
Sep 1, 2014

America's $1 Funnyman

Llamadeus posted:

Isn't the problem here that you're mainly talking about Image and the direct market in general? If you zoom out a bit to western comics as a whole you can surely find "slice of life, sports, various topics people find fun and romance etc", the most popular western comic of recent years is the romance comic Heartstopper for instance.

That's a good point for sure. There's just always room for more variety in all areas, myself I haven't found web or vertical scrolling comics to be my thing for example. But it is cool to see. So it'd be rad to see more stuff like that in other formats too. I know the direct market is definitely an issue and a physical indie comic is considered risky business wise. I've found a couple interesting looking comics online too though for sure, and sometimes they use a bigger page format I like more as well.

Gravitas Shortfall
Jul 17, 2007

Utility is seven-eighths Proximity.


Heavy Metal posted:

Powers was hip for a minute.

Powers was cool but it dragged on for too long.

However, I have a picture of Avon from Blake's Seven drawn by Michael Avon Oeming, so that's something.

Wanderer
Nov 5, 2006

our every move is the new tradition

Frog Act posted:

Yeah it looks cool! I heard about it only with the recent prog featuring Major Eazy and the Sarge since I don’t follow the actual magazine, it’s just too hard to find/subscribe to in the US. That being said I hadn’t heard about a Hellman revival being part of it, so thank you for posting it! my interest is piqued, though honestly I’m deeply skeptical about the character, his history and context, and any attempt to make him legible and enjoyable for a modern audience without also perpetuating the clean Wehrmacht framing that permeates the original run.

Death Squad is also fairly problematic, but not in an almost reasonable documentary way like Darkie’s Mob, which mostly avoids overt racial caricatures in the art, though I think that mostly is like a very slim majority of the art and doesn’t extend to the dialect and stuff. InDeath Squad, on the other hand, Ezquerra often can’t seem to restrain himself from rendering Soviet soldiers as Asiatic barbarians in a way that feels borderline cribbed from Der Sturmer. It’s not 100% and there are infrequent Russian foes or characters drawn in a more normative (white) way, but the moments where it happens were very noticeable. This weird confluence of the Cold War, increasing chronological distance from the crimes of the third reich, old fashioned western racism, and spectacular artists/writers trying to produce something new and comparatively transgressive or unique within the parameters of war stories the public would consume created some pretty bizarre and discursively harmful stuff. I’m just not sure Ennis is even remotely capable of parsing the things necessary to tell a story like that (his intro to Darkie’s Mob sucks) but I definitely intend to find out!

For what it's worth, Ennis didn't handle Death Squad; that's in issue #4, by Rob Williams.

Ennis did Rat Pack, Hellman (the one I mentioned that's effectively a coda for the character, and another set during the Spanish Civil War), Johnny Red, a crossover between Crazy Keller and Hot Wheels that's easily my favorite story in the lot, Dredger, and Cooley's Gun.

You've also got John Wagner on HMS Nightshade, Dan Abnett on D-Day Dawson, Williams on Major Eazy (with Henry Flint doing a really incredible job of imitating Carlos Ezquerra), and Torun Gronbekk of all people on a Nina Petrova strip.

Frog Act
Feb 10, 2012



Wanderer posted:

For what it's worth, Ennis didn't handle Death Squad; that's in issue #4, by Rob Williams.

Ennis did Rat Pack, Hellman (the one I mentioned that's effectively a coda for the character, and another set during the Spanish Civil War), Johnny Red, a crossover between Crazy Keller and Hot Wheels that's easily my favorite story in the lot, Dredger, and Cooley's Gun.

You've also got John Wagner on HMS Nightshade, Dan Abnett on D-Day Dawson, Williams on Major Eazy (with Henry Flint doing a really incredible job of imitating Carlos Ezquerra), and Torun Gronbekk of all people on a Nina Petrova strip.

Oh that's cool, I have more faith in basically anyone else. I don't even dislike Ennis, I just don't think he's really sophisticated enough to actually understand some of the dynamics he perpetuates or reproduces with some of his war comics. Those are a bunch of unfamiliar comics (besides a few) but I love most of those authors, so thanks! I had no idea Abnett did a WW2 story. I love Abnett's Warhammer Monthly work and if I had more money I'd still be trying to collect every issue of WHM instead of just accumulating cheap ~$10 rebellion hardbacks, so that sounds like a grat confluence for me. Crazy Keller, Dredger, Cooley's Gun, Hotwheels are all new names for me though, same with HMS Nightshade. Definitely gonna be seeking those out at some point

My copy of Rat Pack and the first Johnny Red book came yesterday too, I've really enjoyed Rat Pack thus far even if sometimes individual panels border on the absurd



I also got a copy of Alan Moore's Complete Future shocks to go with the two future shocks collections and they were surprisingly a ton of fun. I didn't used to be a huge fan of Moore but I've decided the problem was I started with V for Vendetta and Watchmen years ago when they hit the american mainstream before I started reading comics, and thought they were just, like, fine. Recently I've read Skizz, Halo Jones, Swamp Thing, and his goofy pun-based future shocks and absolutely loved 'em

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Skizz is much underrated. It's quite a bit more than ET set in Birmingham. It also has some nice subtle references - the scientist Van Owen is most certainly a son of a bitch - and one of my favourite exchanges in comics, which comes when he's interrogating Skizz about what Roxy has told him about Earth's military defences and Skizz mentions the police.

"What exactly did she say about the police?"
"She said... they were not as good as madness. I did not understand her at the time..."

Halo Jones is just brilliant, though. I've seen the preview art for Book 4 and read about the full arc and I so much wish that Moore had finished it.

Sentinel Red
Nov 13, 2007
Style > Content.

Jedit posted:

"What exactly did she say about the police?"
"She said... they were not as good as madness. I did not understand her at the time..."

lmao

Frog Act
Feb 10, 2012



Jedit posted:

Skizz is much underrated. It's quite a bit more than ET set in Birmingham. It also has some nice subtle references - the scientist Van Owen is most certainly a son of a bitch - and one of my favourite exchanges in comics, which comes when he's interrogating Skizz about what Roxy has told him about Earth's military defences and Skizz mentions the police.

"What exactly did she say about the police?"
"She said... they were not as good as madness. I did not understand her at the time..."

Halo Jones is just brilliant, though. I've seen the preview art for Book 4 and read about the full arc and I so much wish that Moore had finished it.

Yeah Skizz doesn't really deserve to be compared to ET because it's so much more coherent with regards to using the platonic outsider to do a scifi social criticism while also telling a compelling story, which is, like, the whole thing you want from good science fiction. The contrast between intergalactic standards and the hellworld barbarity of earth was used to great effect largely because Moore, unlike US film directors, actually understood what "alien" implies and made hay with that in a distinct way other similar stories just...don't. Moore's class consciousness is especially important in that regard and his layered proletarian characters suffering in the context of Thatcherist barbarism is incredibly good. I also think it's a great comparison to ET in that particular way since the relevance of wealth and power in Spielberg's story is totally insipid compared to Moore's framing.

That being said the third story after Moore had wrapped it up, the one written by Baike, was weird and not so good. I appreciated the running joke with the alien cops time traveling in very imprecise and ineffective ways, but it just felt like a really jarring tonal shift from the legible human stories Moore wrote.

Couldn't agree more about Halo Jones, after I finished it I went looking around online for the rest because it felt unresolved. Halo obviously has some kind of tremendously important future ahead of her - thus the "historians narrating her life in the distant future" - inter-story moments, and it is a gigantic shame that never happened. Halo Jones also feels pretty groundbreaking the context of the early 80s for the female protagonist, her attitude/approach to the world, and the scifi setting but I suspect that has more to do with stuff like Wildcat, Eagle, Lion etc being so staid next to it since, with the benefit of hindsight, it feels like a pretty typically excellent original 2000 AD story.

also I tried to subscribe since my friendly local comic shop said they used to get progs in but stopped because there wasn't an audience, but they emailed me two days later saying their distributor stopped carrying 2000 AD and the Megazine three years ago. I guess there's literally just nobody else around here who wants it but me.

Chinston Wurchill
Jun 27, 2010

It's not that kind of test.
The first issue of Operation Sunshine from Dark Horse is out this week and I thought it was good enough to continue following. It's a vampire story and the main protagonists are lesser vampires who are just trying to get by in the world. Apparently the writers are podcasters or something but it was the art from David Rubin that made me check it out. I'd recommend it!

Chinston Wurchill fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Oct 12, 2023

McGurk
Oct 20, 2004

Cuz life sucks, kids. Get it while you can.

Kaya continues to impress with #12, the second “stand-alone” story that isn’t going to be collected in the TPBs. I have to imagine that if this series ever gets a big hardcover they will be in there. Really interesting look into the robo villains.

Didn’t like Army of Darkness Forever #1 much. It’s trying to wrangle multiple timelines but it wasn’t clicking for me. Maybe after a couple more issues it will be clearer.

Danknificent
Nov 20, 2015

Jinkies! Looks like we've got a mystery on our hands.
Dexter comparisons are unavoidable but I felt like BENEATH THE TREES WHERE NOBODY SEES got off to a strong start this week. Would recommend.

Danknificent fucked around with this message at 11:26 on Oct 20, 2023

Chinston Wurchill
Jun 27, 2010

It's not that kind of test.
I don't quite know what's happening in the new self-referential Matt Kindt book Subgenre, but I do know I'll be back for more next month! Love that guy.

I picked up the new Friday this week but haven't read it yet. Expecting good things as usual.

El Gallinero Gros
Mar 17, 2010
How is Minor Threats ?

Cassa
Jan 29, 2009

El Gallinero Gros posted:

How is Minor Threats ?

I thought it was fun! Short, punchy, didn't overstay it's welcome and left a lot of the world open to be explored later but also extremely self contained. I'd love to see Oswalt and Blum collaborate on more, and the art is so so good.

Big Bad Voodoo Lou
Jan 1, 2006

El Gallinero Gros posted:

How is Minor Threats ?

I liked it. It was a retooled version of a pitch Oswalt shared for a rejected Batman miniseries (or a graphic novel?) that was inspired by Fritz Lang's classic film noir M, with minor villains of Gotham City uniting to hunt and kill the Joker after he went too far and bought too much heat down on the rest of them.

Frog Act
Feb 10, 2012



Just wanna shout out for the recommendation re: the 13th floor comics, I just finished the third volume and absolutely loved them. They're so much fun and evince that type of weird class consciousness so typical of British comics emanating from the 2000 AD types, even if it was technically in Lion/Tiger/Scream or whatever.

Anyway there was a big rear end 2000 AD sale and I've been continuing my mission to acquire copies of all the weird deep cuts that nobody really remembers anymore, so I just got copies of Adam Eterno: A Hero for All Time in the cool webshop hardback, 45 years of Gerry-Finley Day, Ace Trucking Co Vol. 2, The Leopard from Lime Street Vol. 2 (also the fun hardback), Ant Wars, and 2000 AD Presents: Sci-Fi Thrillers. It goes without saying that anyone interested in and unfamiliar with 2000 AD should start with Nemesis/Ro-Busters/ABC Warriors/Slaine or one of the other more creative and lauded properties they own, but I'm also increasingly of the opinion that this old Treasury of British Comics stuff deserves a lot more attention than it gets. I've also been reading Von Hoffman's Invasion and it absolutely locks down the whole "giant animals attack" angle, I'm hoping Ant Wars will be similarly delightful in the manner of campy midcentury science fiction

Heavy Metal
Sep 1, 2014

America's $1 Funnyman

Happy to hear! Definitely a fun time and vibe for comics.

Frog Act
Feb 10, 2012



I don't know a single person IRL who would give a gently caress about or recognize any of these books but I'm feeling pretty happy with how my little collection is coming along and want to post it somewhere, so I'm gonna do it here






I've got a bunch of other stuff like the Aliens omnibuses, some whole runs of classic manga, etc but the weird British midcentury stuff is increasingly my favorite. I gotta rearrange all of these into some nice coherent thing on a shelf

Sentinel Red
Nov 13, 2007
Style > Content.

Frog Act posted:

Just wanna shout out for the recommendation re: the 13th floor comics, I just finished the third volume and absolutely loved them. They're so much fun and evince that type of weird class consciousness so typical of British comics emanating from the 2000 AD types, even if it was technically in Lion/Tiger/Scream or whatever.

For real, Max will always have a place in my heart as the One Good Landlord. Maybe could do with turning down his Murder parameters from 90 to 50 but eh. I just love the whole "oh dear, yet another heart attack in the lift, how tragic" shtick.

Frog Act
Feb 10, 2012



Sentinel Red posted:

For real, Max will always have a place in my heart as the One Good Landlord. Maybe could do with turning down his Murder parameters from 90 to 50 but eh. I just love the whole "oh dear, yet another heart attack in the lift, how tragic" shtick.

Absolutely same, the sensibilities it reflects fascinate me on account of their kind of odd working class character that is deeply embedded and interested in British day-to-day governance and welfare systems that exert a meaningful and inescapable influence on their lives. Max is never really a bad guy, just petulant and narcissistic, and the way that manifests itself in the first book with repeated killings of debt collectors, callous bureaucrats, greedy merchants etc is the perfect way to make a murderous computer constantly lost in fantasy worlds into a compelling protagonist

The Misty book was very similar, the story about the abandoned tower blocks that are also a portal to an alternate Britain where the nazis won is steeped in those same sentiments - the protagonist is made homeless by a council screw up - and the Loving Cup’s story is driven almost entirely by the poverty of the main character and her family. It’s a major contrast with what little I know about US comics from the same period, where working class backgrounds and anxieties are barely acknowledged or engaged with lazily

Space Fish
Oct 14, 2008

The original Big Tuna.


Frog Act posted:

I don't know a single person IRL who would give a gently caress about or recognize any of these books but I'm feeling pretty happy with how my little collection is coming along and want to post it somewhere, so I'm gonna do it here

*Norm Macdonald voice* God drat, you are grizzled.

Heavy Metal
Sep 1, 2014

America's $1 Funnyman

Frog Act posted:

some whole runs of classic manga, etc but the weird British midcentury stuff is increasingly my favorite. I gotta rearrange all of these into some nice coherent thing on a shelf

Now I'm curious what classic manga titles you like? I've been getting Fist of the North Star lately.

Frog Act
Feb 10, 2012



Heavy Metal posted:

Now I'm curious what classic manga titles you like? I've been getting Fist of the North Star lately.

FOTN looks dope, it’s on my list to get around to eventually, since stuff from the bubble era and early 90s is generally my favorite. I’d definitely call that classic so most of the stuff I’ve bought/read/enjoyed would fit into that category too.

My favorite is definitely without question Lone Wolf and Cub, which has some of the most beautiful sequential art ever created framing a story I think is as timeless as consequential as any part of any canon. Just an incredible experience, my favorite director is a tie with Masaki Kobayashi and LWAC has the same combination of historical accuracy/authenticity as all-time samurai movies like Harakiri and Samurai Rebellion. I’m also a history fan and since I was stupid enough to get a BA/MA in the field there’s a special place in my heart for books where I actually learn something new every time I read one. There isn’t a single collection in the LWAC printing where I didn’t learn something fascinating about Japan under the shogunate

The other one id sing unqualified praises for would be Dorohedoro, which is a bit newer but finished and an all-timer. It’s a really fascinating world and somehow Hayashida tells a really human story using inhuman characters in a borderline incoherent setting. Wasn’t expecting to like it as much as I did but I ended up absolutely devouring it, it’s a really neat kind of intersection of genres and ideas I’ve never encountered elsewhere and it managed to wrap everything up nicely. Extra praise for not being gratuitous but not avoiding nudity and violence, and even more for the author’s tremendous ability to balance levity and shocking seriousness with side bits and interstitial joke panels.

The third one I am extremely positive about in every respect but would be more circumspect about recommending to people - Blame!. Blame! does things with scale that sated something in me that I didn’t even know was empty. I’ve always been super into scifi about megastructures because of the utopian social base their existence implies but it’s also insanely difficult to write or articulate in a way that is both legible to human readers and approaches an accurate accounting of a real megastructure’s incomprehensible size. Had trouble with the prequels and Blame! leaves a lot of questions unanswered but I think in many ways it’s one of the most artistically/visually significant works of science fiction ever and will one day be remembered as seminal in the same way 2001 is in cinema. Not much in the way of dialogue and stuff, extremely plodding and mostly devoted to illustrating those incredible landscapes, and incredibly good.

Finally, this one is still ongoing so it doesn’t count as a classic but it’s so loving good I can’t not mention it - Golden Kamuy. GK is a historical adventure story set in Hokkaido after the Russo-Japanese war, concerning a group of veterans, prisoners, and misfits working with an Ainu girl to find a cache of gold hidden by Ainu partisans to fund a struggle for far eastern independence. It’s like a more crass version of LWAC, in the sense that the author worked with professors of Ainu history, linguists, etc to produce a work that is extremely accurate where it can be and authentic everywhere else. Like LWAC, I’ve learned a lot about Ainu history and Hokkaido, which was always confirmed elsewhere. The art even accurately renders notable individual buildings in historical towns and cities in Hokkaido, it’s probably the most committed I’ve ever seen any piece be regarding historicity. Only one qualifier though: it’s full of weird filthy sex stuff that doesn’t feel totally shoehorned in but also comes close to going over the line sometimes. It’s not a sex manga or anything of course, it just occasionally goes all in on weird characters. Despite that it’s so good I read it all in like a month and am very eagerly awaiting the last two

There’s also Hellsing, which wasn’t what I expected but once I accommodated myself to the underlying stupidity and accepted it was a Japanese guy who doesn’t know poo poo about European history or Christian theology doing a reverse orientalism to tell a badass story with unfamiliar tropes, i enjoyed it a lot knowing it was just kind of dumb spectacle rather than a “real” narrative

Finally, there’s Spriggan, which I bought and enjoyed up to the third book (mostly) up until the offensively ahistorical stuff just got to be too much. I’d recommend not bothering with Spriggan in that it borders on nazi apologism via the author’s overwhelming stupidity too frequently to be accidental.

I’ve also got Akira and Ghost in the Shell, but that probably goes without saying. Recently picked up several Lupin III books and absolutely loved them, it’s this wonderful combination of silly slapstick with “adult” sensibilities so it ends up feeling like a kind of synthesis of kid’s comedy and spy thrillers, with tits, silly physics, fast cars etc. just so much fun

Post ended up longer than I intended but it’s fun to discuss this stuff in the context of the 2000 AD books, I’m genuinely curious what other people ITT familiar with Rebellion enjoy as far as manga goes. I don’t consider manga and western stuff to be separate categories that should be separate either, really, it’s all sequential art at the end of the day

Heavy Metal
Sep 1, 2014

America's $1 Funnyman

Right on, happy to read! The Lupin manga is wild for sure, and I'm glad it happened, though I prefer the anime a lot. Monkey Punch is a hero, and I appreciate his work's insanity anyway. My fav anime franchise for sure.

Ranma ½ and Gunsmith Cats were cool reads. Blade of the Immortal is good, only ever read around 10 vols back when, did buy it all. Bastard!! is something. Slam Dunk anime and manga is great.

Frog Act
Feb 10, 2012



Heavy Metal posted:

Right on, happy to read! The Lupin manga is wild for sure, and I'm glad it happened, though I prefer the anime a lot. Monkey Punch is a hero, and I appreciate his work's insanity anyway. My fav anime franchise for sure.

Ranma ½ and Gunsmith Cats were cool reads. Blade of the Immortal is good, only ever read around 10 vols back when, did buy it all. Bastard!! is something. Slam Dunk anime and manga is great.

Haven’t thought about Ranma ½ since like 2003 but I remember it being screened at an early aughts anime convention I went to, thank you for knocking that loose in my brain. Never heard of Gunsmith Cats but it looks 100% up my alley, going on the list along with Bastard!!. Blade of the Immortal looks great but as far as I can tell it’s only available in English in this weird hosed up translation that reformats it to read left to right, which drives me bonkers with manga. I’ve been keeping my eyes peeled and am gonna get it as soon as there’s a proper version available though, premise looks great

Also I started Leopard of Lime Street just now after finishing The Spider’s Syndicate of Crime and it’s pretty fun how these evince the things I stereotypically expect from superhero comics, like silly declaratory statements and unexplained or outrageous non-sequiturs. I was inspired to start LoLS because there was a bit where The Spider flipped a switch which caused a hatch to open, from which two leopards in silhouette emerged, before he gassed them and it struck me that Reg Bunn was apparently totally unwilling to draw a leopard and felt compelled to see what Eric Bradbury’s would look like

Heavy Metal
Sep 1, 2014

America's $1 Funnyman

Excellent! Man comics are good.

fez_machine
Nov 27, 2004
The most 2000ad manga is Wolfsmund because it's told in short episodes with a gradually emerging over plot and someone gets horribly murdered in a gross injustice every time

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Got round to reading Asterix album 40 today. They got Fabrice Caro in to replace Jean-Yves Ferri on writing duties, which is the first time someone has written Asterix without Albert Uderzo's approval. (To be fair it would be hard to get as he's dead, but still.) He manages to make most of the jokes land - I liked the bit where the High Speed Chariot is delayed by six hours in the space of five minutes - but he hasn't got the plotting down pat yet. The core idea of a friendly Roman visiting the village to win the Gauls over with positive thinking isn't bad, but in execution it's a bit too much like Asterix and the Roman Agent. Caro also looks to have jettisoned the interesting idea of some of the villagers having teenage kids, but hasn't dropped Ferri's change to have the elderly pirate sometimes not speak in Latin. Overall a bit of a shaky start.

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Frog Act
Feb 10, 2012



Jedit posted:

How do you feel about digital editions?

https://shop.2000ad.com/catalogue/GRN331

The 2000AD shop also has Get Harry Ex, a hardback collection of the first three Button Man series. The sequels were OK, but the first run is one of the best comics Wagner ever wrote.

Thanks for this recommendation, I got a box of Blackwell’s today that included Get Harry Ex and I’m super into it so far. Just really enjoyable in that kind of world-weary 90s action movie way and I’m excited to see what kind of depth it attains as the story progresses.

Also after reading Ant Wars I feel a little less confident about Gerry Finley-Day’s opinions, the unrelenting racism that was supposed to be some kind of heavy handed satire didn’t really land and the narration using the phrase “semi-civilized Indian” in every single prog didn’t help one iota

Frog Act fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Nov 14, 2023

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