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zoux posted:The Sahara has existed since modern humans have existed right? The Sahara was lush and wet until a few thousand years ago.
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Nov 14, 2023 21:56
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zoux posted:The Sahara has existed since modern humans have existed right? Modern humans are a lot older than the Sahara, but the Sahara existed before any of the civilizations we're talking about. Though the Sahara also oscillates between being a brutal desert and more of a steppe, I'm not sure how many cycles of that have happened during the existence of modern humans.
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Nov 14, 2023 21:57
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The Greeks called the third continent (specifically, everything beyond Egypt) Libya. Africa is a Latin name (uncertain origin but the form is Latin)
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Nov 14, 2023 22:01
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I'm partial to the idea that the Sahara is really just the first Dust Bowl even though there isn't much support for it.
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Nov 14, 2023 22:02
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cowboy
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Omnomnomnivore posted:Isn't "Was Napoleon good or bad?" one of those history questions where the answer is "yes"? I went through a brief period in books and podcasts of maybe becoming a Napoleon Guy (could be worse as types of Guys go) but bounced off it. Saying he strangled the revolution or was autocratic are non starters, the revolution died with Robspierre and the government was already functionally autocratic and running by false plebiscites at the time. The fact is in order to preserve any of the gains the revolution made someone had to take the reins of power from the Directory to prevent the restoration of the Bourbons and if that man hadn't been Napoleon it would've been Bernadotte or Murat or one of the other generals of the army. Would they have been willing to abdicate like Napoleon when they realized they'd lost? or would they have let France burn to the ground on the small chance they'd maintain a throne like Austria, Prussia, and Russia were all willing to do.
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Nov 14, 2023 22:06
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I really enjoyed Sarah Vowell’s Lafayette book. It’s an unconventional biography (and the author is very much present in it; don’t read it unless that’s something you can enjoy) but it was a fun and delightful read.
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Nov 14, 2023 22:17
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Zopotantor posted:What do Americans think about Lafayette? There's a guy worth making a movie about. Even as someone with a joke of a history classin public school, I know the guy. If someone recognizes the name at all it's that badass French dude who saved our bacon.
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Nov 14, 2023 22:17
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there's no political or military leaders who are uncomplicatedly good it's fine to go 'dang napoleon was cool' or 'dang caesar was cool', imo, because of the historical distance. Far better to do that than either extreme of 'Caesar did nothing wrong' or 'Caesar was a monster and liking him is therefore morally wrong'
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Nov 14, 2023 22:18
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Napoleon might be the Greatest Man ever out of all Great Man history, and his ultimate failure to make so much of his intended plans stick might also be the greatest indictment of Great Man history. You stand out the most when there's a lack of greater movements to keep things going, and unquestioned high authority allows you to make a lot of bad mistakes and pursue a lot of bad ideas. I feel like Napoleon did so much stuff, so much bad stuff, so much good stuff, so many of the things you did, you have to track the ripples through the entire drat world to evaluate, I consider him sort of morally neutral. It's too much work to tabulate. Although if you go by intent rather than results, most of the time he was just self-serving and self-aggrandizing more than anything else.
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Nov 14, 2023 23:08
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cheetah7071 posted:there's no political or military leaders who are uncomplicatedly good I mean that's basically how some people in South- and Southeast-Asia, treat Hitler but due to geographical and cultural distance rather than historical. To them he's basically the same as Genghis Khan, Napoleon or Alexander the Great. Just a guy who conquered a lot of stuff in a short time and was really a powerful and strong leader. Sure he killed a lot of people but so did all the other guys and they were all the way on the other side of the world so they basically don't count.
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Nov 14, 2023 23:38
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Silver2195 posted:Napoleon was a military dictator who maintained a facade of legitimacy through ridiculous rigged plebiscites, conquered countries and installed his brothers as kings of them, invaded Switzerland with no provocation, and reimposed slavery on Haiti. But apparently the fact that he also simplified France’s legal code is enough to make people defend him as some kind of progressive liberal reformer. I mean, the Directorate he overthrew didn't exactly have a better record of respecting democratic norms and conducting free and fair elections. Also it's worth noting that he failed to reinstate slavery in Haiti; the LeClerc-Rochambeau expedition did not exactly achieve its objectives! The main lasting effect from it, aside from uniting Haiti against the French and emboldening them enough to declare independence, were the Polish volunteer and conscripted soldiers sent on it, nearly all of whom (well, after a couple years, once their numbers had already been cut 90% by combat and yellow fever) defected to the Haitians and became celebrated heroes of the Revolution awarded "Noir" status and citizenship by the new government.
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Nov 15, 2023 00:00
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I sometimes wonder what Napoleon might have done if he had gone to America, which Lafayette had arranged, after losing at Waterloo. The French probably made the right decision by saying "no way, gently caress that, you're going to Saint Helena"
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Nov 15, 2023 00:03
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Jamwad Hilder posted:I sometimes wonder what Napoleon might have done if he had gone to America, which Lafayette had arranged, after losing at Waterloo. The French probably made the right decision by saying "no way, gently caress that, you're going to Saint Helena" The Civil War but with Louis Napoleon e: there’s gotta be a Harry Turtledove book about this right skasion fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Nov 15, 2023 |
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Nov 15, 2023 00:15
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skasion posted:The Civil War but with Louis Napoleon there's a movie starred by keanu reeves about it
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Nov 15, 2023 00:31
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Nov 15, 2023 03:04
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what alignment is 1204
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Nov 15, 2023 03:27
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Ok I get all of them but 565. I even looked it up and I know what happened and I still don't get it less so the alignment it's associated with
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Nov 15, 2023 03:28
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CommonShore posted:Ok I get all of them but 565. I even looked it up and I know what happened and I still don't get it less so the alignment it's associated with Death of Justinian I, who had tenuously rebuilt much of the empire, reconquering Africa and Italy. After his death, it all fell apart again.
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Nov 15, 2023 03:33
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Also the last native Latin speaking emperor.
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Nov 15, 2023 03:39
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Shouldn't CE be 1917, since that's the year the actual Tsardom was overthrown?
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Nov 15, 2023 03:47
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1918 is apparently Austria-Hungary, not Nicky.
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Nov 15, 2023 03:51
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Which country is Rome again now? I think the title passed to Vietnam by my math, where it is going to stay for quite some time
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Nov 15, 2023 04:02
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Deteriorata posted:Death of Justinian I, who had tenuously rebuilt much of the empire, reconquering Africa and Italy. After his death, it all fell apart again. Ah I misread the year 565 entry when I looked it up on my phone - it says "Justin II succeeds his uncle Justinian I" and my brain saw "Justinian I succeeds his uncle Justin I". I immediately thought "Doesn't the end of Justinian's reign make more sense...?" Feelin like a dummy but I guess I still had 7 of the 8 dates.
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Nov 15, 2023 05:16
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skasion posted:From loving Corsica though. This is by far the most insane part of Napoleon’s life story. For a decade this guy ruled half of Europe among and against its own divinely anointed crowned heads, when he was a semi-assimilated “notable” from an irrelevant island mostly known to other Europeans for poverty and crime. It’s completely baffling that it occurred. It’s like if the Galactic Emperor turned out to be from Scranton, PA. Don't give joe ideas
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Nov 15, 2023 06:08
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No answer on that chart is right since c. 639 is the actual date.
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Nov 15, 2023 06:27
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One of the most interesting things about learning about Napoleon is learning about Pasquale Paoli and how influential he was in his time.
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Nov 15, 2023 06:32
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GoutPatrol posted:Don't give joe ideas
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Nov 15, 2023 06:48
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I got a friend with an Italian grandma, he crowned me emperor of Rome. It's as good a claim as any and I'm the best man for the job. Rome's not gonna die on my watch. Any news on that Seneca movie that looks batshit? I don't remember when that was supposed to come out, but it didn't look like it was gonna be historically accurate lol
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Nov 15, 2023 10:35
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Compare with https://www.amazon.com/Black-Count-Revolution-Betrayal-Cristo/dp/0307382478/ref=asc_df_0307382478/ though! I mean don't have to convince me that I'd like to see a Dumas biopic, Dumas rules. But I'm not a widely celebrated director with a robust decades-long track record of commercial and critical success. That guy wants to make a movie about Napoleon I guess. Neutral Good should be 1922, aka my preferred date.
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Nov 15, 2023 11:34
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Tulip posted:I mean don't have to convince me that I'd like to see a Dumas biopic, Dumas rules. But I'm not a widely celebrated director with a robust decades-long track record of commercial and critical success. That guy wants to make a movie about Napoleon I guess. Sorry, you're Lawful Evil.
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Nov 15, 2023 13:28
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I'm partial to the theory that due to various dynastic leaps and declared imperial successor cities and states it's actually Helsinki that has ended up as the nth direct imperial successor to Rome. Finns have just wisely kept the whole thing under wraps, waiting for their chance.
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Nov 15, 2023 14:06
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barbecue at the folks posted:I'm partial to the theory that due to various dynastic leaps and declared imperial successor cities and states it's actually Helsinki that has ended up as the nth direct imperial successor to Rome. Finns have just wisely kept the whole thing under wraps, waiting for their chance. Watch out Korea.
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Nov 15, 2023 21:44
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I genuinely don't understand the appeal of napoleon as a topic for English language audiences. Don't we have enough lionization of dictators already? Cobra Commander movie would be great, his backstory is nuts. He was a salesman who started a MLM that got so big it attracted attention from terrorists and arms manufacturers.
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Nov 16, 2023 08:28
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Locally there are lots of Lafayette memorials but the fun part is that some are his OG tour during the revolution and some are from years later when he came back and did a farewell sweep through the same towns
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Nov 18, 2023 15:38
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Grand Fromage posted:1918 is apparently Austria-Hungary, not Nicky. Why is that CE, and the end of the Ottomans is CG? The alignment assignments for most of these graphs usually feel completely arbitrary. 500excf type r posted:Locally there are lots of Lafayette memorials but the fun part is that some are his OG tour during the revolution and some are from years later when he came back and did a farewell sweep through the same towns Way more than those, too. The US had more than doubled in territorial extent in the intervening 40+ years, nearly doubled in number of states, and roughly tripled in population.
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Nov 18, 2023 19:25
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Fuschia tude posted:The weirdest part of his whole career is the time he requested leave from the army after Corsica's three-way civil/independence war broke out, was granted it and returned there, overstayed his leave by nearly a year as he participated in the war, even briefly fought against French forces on the island as he served under his family's old Corsican nationalist patron (not realizing Paoli had since become a royalist secretly allied with Britain), and then after all that managed to get himself reinstated as an officer in the French Revolutionary Army. Ideologically reliable guys who had completed an education in the artillery school were not going to be turned away in 1793, when it looked like the Republic was going to be crushed by the armies of the monarchies. And that piece of paper paid off for the French right away, since Napoleon showed up at Toulon took one look at it and was like "If you let me put cannons on that hill we will immediately win the battle" and the political fart in charge was like "we do not have cannons" so Napoleon went off into the countryside and collected dozens of cannons and brought them back and the political generals were still like "no" and then finally they were like "okay you can take a few guys to that hill" and a few hours later the Allied fleet was evacuating the city under fire from that hill. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 08:08 on Nov 19, 2023 |
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Nov 19, 2023 08:04
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Anyone know any good watching or reading about the Umayyad conquest of Hispania and the Reconquista?
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Nov 19, 2023 12:41
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Vapor Moon posted:Anyone know any good watching or reading about the Umayyad conquest of Hispania and the Reconquista? Can't help you with watching, but these books might be enjoyable: Conquest of [most of the] Iberian Peninsula: The Great Arab Conquests by Hugh Kennedy. Some primary sources from that time that are an interesting read: Medieval Iberia, 2nd Ed., Edited by Olivia Remie Constable Reconquista (specific to Lisbon): The conquest of Lisbon, translated by Charles Wendell David. Reconquista (overview): Reconquest and Crusade in Medieval Spain by Joseph F. O'Callaghan edit: Forgot to add: Muslim Spain and Portugal: A Political History of al-Andalus, likewise by Hugh Kennedy. These are all in English; I think if you can read in French, Spanish, Portuguese or Arabic you might have even more options. Sarern fucked around with this message at 14:46 on Nov 19, 2023 |
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Nov 19, 2023 14:44
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Fuschia tude posted:Why is that CE, and the end of the Ottomans is CG? The end of the Ottomans would be another contender for 1918, or for 1923, depending on if you count the years of foreign occupation, where the monarchy still limped along for a while as basically slaves for foreign interests, until the new republic mercifully ended that shitshow for good. I think you meant the end of East Rome? Anyway, none of the options for 1918 fit LE, so yeah, that table is basically filled by way of RNG
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Nov 20, 2023 15:02
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I would assume 1918 is recognizing the Kaiser's claim because that was when Germany was stabbed in a direction of some dispute, losing War War 1.
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Nov 20, 2023 15:11
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