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Pulling it off the Guardian's website is honestly a pretty wild reaction to have, though.
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Nov 16, 2023 06:45
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sounds like dumb "kids"(aka people younger than ancient millennia goons) just having babby's first political edginess. like having a copy of a hitler book or some other similar thing. also its tiktok so of course its a bunch of social media pigeons trying something anything to get the TK blackbox bless them with numbers.
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Nov 16, 2023 06:46
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theCalamity posted:https://twitter.com/yashar/status/1724942399431217457 I’m not sure I follow, are you saying it’s a good thing that lots of kids are reading and agreeing with the Osama bin Laden letter?
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Nov 16, 2023 06:52
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BUUNNI posted:I do wonder how much of the reduced healthcare spending stat is due to the massive drop in life expectancy in the United States in the past few years. The massive drop in life expentency is a trend of the "deaths of dispair" - suicide, overdoses, and complications of alcholisim - outpacing gains of life expenency due to better healthcare. This trend started in the 1990s, so it should have a depresent rate on medical costs the whole time.
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Nov 16, 2023 07:47
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BUUNNI posted:I do wonder how much of the reduced healthcare spending stat is due to the massive drop in life expectancy in the United States in the past few years. Also lol france Delthalaz posted:I’m not sure I follow, are you saying it’s a good thing that lots of kids are reading and agreeing with the Osama bin Laden letter? 
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Nov 16, 2023 07:50
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mobby_6kl posted:Amerikkka deserved it
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Nov 16, 2023 07:52
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Delthalaz posted:I’m not sure I follow, are you saying it’s a good thing that lots of kids are reading and agreeing with the Osama bin Laden letter? I think it’s a good that people are learning about our involvement in the Middle East and what the some of the Middle East think of the US straight from their mouths and not from American propaganda. Not saying that it’s good that they agree with it (it's full of anti-semitism and homophobia) , but it’s good that they are reading it. And it’s not just kids reading it, it’s people of all ages reading it. edit: I also don't believe there is a conspiracy to hide it given that the letter can be found on a government website. theCalamity fucked around with this message at 08:44 on Nov 16, 2023 |
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Nov 16, 2023 07:58
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theCalamity posted:I think it’s a good that people are learning about our involvement in the Middle East and what the some of the Middle East think of the US straight from their mouths and not from American propaganda. Not saying that it’s good that they agree with it, but it’s good that they are reading it. And it’s not just kids reading it. It’s people of all ages reading it. The Letter to America is an important historical document, but let's not kid ourselves that it's not also propaganda coming from the other direction. Bin Laden had an extreme religious and political ideology and while some of his views were popular, let's keep in mind that describing his position as representative of middle easterners is, ironically, both what he would have wanted and what early 2000s neocons desperate to invade Iraq also would have wanted.
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Nov 16, 2023 08:57
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Acebuckeye13 posted:The Letter to America is an important historical document, but let's not kid ourselves that it's not also propaganda coming from the other direction. Bin Laden had an extreme religious and political ideology and while some of his views were popular, let's keep in mind that describing his position as representative of middle easterners is, ironically, both what he would have wanted and what early 2000s neocons desperate to invade Iraq also would have wanted. You’re right. I should’ve said what OBL thought of the US.
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Nov 16, 2023 09:00
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I feel like one thing that makes home births seem appealing is that in the modern age we've forgotten how bad things can go during a birth. I recall an article a few years ago where the writer was an expectant mother who attended a class on giving birth (the article may have actually been about home births but I don't recall for sure) and the instructor asked what people regarded as the biggest dangers. A couple of people said stuff like "It'll take a long time" "It'll be very painful" and then someone busts out "Both I and my baby die in childbirth."
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Nov 16, 2023 10:52
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Ms Adequate posted:I feel like one thing that makes home births seem appealing is that in the modern age we've forgotten how bad things can go during a birth. I recall an article a few years ago where the writer was an expectant mother who attended a class on giving birth (the article may have actually been about home births but I don't recall for sure) and the instructor asked what people regarded as the biggest dangers. A couple of people said stuff like "It'll take a long time" "It'll be very painful" and then someone busts out "Both I and my baby die in childbirth." This is a longstanding, underlying problem in several public health and other policy areas, including the emergence of an underregulated "cost-saving" industry that profits from the harm. A lot of the situation is analogous to vaccines; John Simon, a British public health official, is on record saying that "the very success of vaccination may have blinded people to its importance. It is so easy to be bold against an absent danger- to despise the antidote while one has no painful experience of the bane." He said it in 1857. I wrote up an effortpost here covering a book on the subject and related policy lessons.
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Nov 16, 2023 12:18
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Discendo Vox posted:' to despise the antidote while one has no painful experience of the bane." Noone cared who he was til he put on the mask
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Nov 16, 2023 12:36
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theCalamity posted:https://twitter.com/chuckmodi1/status/1724960432203464810?s=46 Largely weren’t shown. The GOP set up FREE SPEECH ZONES for protestors at the rnc. They were about a mile away from the venue, roped off, and surrounded by roided up cops waiting to bust heads. Discendo Vox posted:. It is so easy to be bold against an absent danger- to despise the antidote while one has no painful experience of the bane.". My favorite story about this is the polio vaccine in western North Carolina. It was administered by the national guard. They would show up at schools, like the kids up, and give them a sugar cube. That was it. No questions. At my dads school the boys then got to fire rifles while the guardsmen smoked and flirted with the teachers because it was the fifties. You got a vaccine card saying you had it and you were expected to carry that in your billfold. Polio was a huge problem in heywood county. 95% of the population was fine with this. To find the holdouts, they’d wait outside churches, because that was the best way to find them. If someone left Sunday service and didn’t have their card, they’d be taken behind a building or large car and have the poo poo beat out of them until they changed their minds. Almost everyone else was fine with this. The rest of the church would watch. Imagine high haired church wives with pointy shoes watching some red neck getting his rear end beat and saying “bless his heart.” FizFashizzle fucked around with this message at 12:54 on Nov 16, 2023 |
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Nov 16, 2023 12:46
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Discendo Vox posted:No, they are not "blocking" reform or legalization. State law enforcement and the prison industry are not players in the actual legal processes involved in either the FDA-DEA rescheduling and approval administrative processes or Congressional committees that have power. I was talking about state level legalization not federal, sorry, I should've made that clearer. There are still a large number of local laws making marijuana illegal. The federal laws are less of a concern honestly due to lack of enforcement. The feds are not going out and busting people for pot; state level cops very much still are. see situations like this: https://www.thestate.com/news/local/crime/article266903246.html Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 13:12 on Nov 16, 2023 |
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Nov 16, 2023 12:58
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You have to think Ohio GOP thought they’d balance out the weed legalization referendum with voters who were against legal abortion. Oops.
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Nov 16, 2023 13:05
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theCalamity posted:https://twitter.com/yashar/status/1724942399431217457 Uh I have a completely different perception of what’s happening when thousands of TikTok videos from seemingly unrelated people reading Bin Laden show up literally overnight
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Nov 16, 2023 13:14
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Tiny Timbs posted:Uh I have a completely different perception of what’s happening when thousands of TikTok videos from seemingly unrelated people reading Bin Laden show up literally overnight Tweets maybe, but I don't think troll farms have advanced to the point of making convincing deep fake videos, and there's no way you could astroturf thousands of videos.* *(Assuming thousands of videos isn't an exaggeration and they aren't just the same few over and over)
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Nov 16, 2023 13:18
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KillHour posted:Tweets maybe, but I don't think troll farms have advanced to the point of making convincing deep fake videos, and there's no way you could astroturf thousands of videos.* It’s really not that hard to throw a couple bucks at the “influencer” crowd to do a quick video for you: https://www.vice.com/en/article/epxken/russian-tiktok-influencers-paid-propaganda quote:Numerous campaigns have been coordinated in a secret Telegram channel that directs these influencers on what to say, where to capture videos, what hashtags to use, and when exactly to post the video.
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Nov 16, 2023 13:21
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Tiny Timbs posted:Uh I have a completely different perception of what’s happening when thousands of TikTok videos from seemingly unrelated people reading Bin Laden show up literally overnight No need to be coy then, give us the cui bono
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Nov 16, 2023 13:23
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Tiny Timbs posted:It’s really not that hard to throw a couple bucks at the “influencer” crowd to do a quick video for you: https://www.vice.com/en/article/epxken/russian-tiktok-influencers-paid-propaganda This works both ways though, as the Biden/Harris campaign also uses social media influencers to spread US propaganda and sway young people into voting for them. quote:Biden's digital strategy team will connect with influencers across the nation to target those who may not follow the White House or Democratic Party on social media — or who have tuned out mainstream media altogether. Were people despairing this much when they saw the amount and intensity of social media propaganda when the current administration did it or is it bad only when other countries do it?
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Nov 16, 2023 13:27
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I think it's bad when bad people do it about bad things and I think it's good when good people do it about good things, op.
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Nov 16, 2023 13:42
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My bad, I forgot US hegemony isn’t bad for everyone involved 
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Nov 16, 2023 13:47
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PhazonLink posted:also its tiktok so of course its a bunch of social media pigeons trying something anything to get the TK blackbox bless them with numbers. Yeah this. People keep trying to read the tea leaves about what's happening on TikTok and what it means for society, when it's literally just people trying to figure out how to make an algorithm give them money. Not saying it's harmless by any means, but you have to use a different lens to examine it. It would be a mistake to assume TikTok is simply a window into what The Kids are doing these days.
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Nov 16, 2023 13:48
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Yeah it turns out that electioneering and propaganda are actually totally different things. Anyone equating them to try and make a “but Amerikkka bad” point is showing his rear end, imo.
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Nov 16, 2023 14:05
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BUUNNI posted:My bad, I forgot US hegemony isn’t bad for everyone involved I don't know about any of that, but the thing is, I dislike things that are bad and want people to not do them. On the other hand, I DO like things that are GOOD.
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Nov 16, 2023 14:11
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I believe in the capacity of tiktok idiots to organically come to stupid and destructive beliefs via algorithmic radicalization alone, like when instagram fitness moms started learning about Wayfair, or when weightlifter guys started drinking their own piss on camera.
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Nov 16, 2023 14:14
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KillHour posted:Tweets maybe, but I don't think troll farms . . . no way you could astroturf thousands of videos.* I'd be surprised if there weren't, by this point. Like, that poo poo is an industry. Supposing that kind of thing just can't be happening seems on the order of  Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Nov 16, 2023 |
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Nov 16, 2023 14:25
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People getting up in arms because people are reading a letter written by a Bad Guy is very bizarre to me. Are people only supposed to read things written by Good Guys? And I expect as many terrorists to be created as kids ate tide pods back when that was a thing
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Nov 16, 2023 15:11
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koolkal posted:People getting up in arms because people are reading a letter written by a Bad Guy is very bizarre to me. Are people only supposed to read things written by Good Guys? And I expect as many terrorists to be created as kids ate tide pods back when that was a thing Because it's anti-semetic, theocratic propaganda. This is literally the opening line. quote:Your former president warned you previously about the devastating Jewish control of capital and about a day that would come when it would enslave you; it has happened. And people are posting on social media "wow he has a point". We don't encourage people to read the Turner Diaries or Mein Kampf or school shooter manifestos. theCalamity posted:It does hearten me that a lot of people are learning about our involvement in the Middle East That anyone would think that people reading the racist, insane wahabist ramblings of a mass murderer is "heartening" is disturbing. Why would they believe all the stuff you, I assume, agree with while discerning that the causes (international jewish conspiracy) is false? They're going to believe the whole thing!  Is it "heartening" that literal online neonazis are using this as a wedge to convert naive tik tok zoomers to the cause of white supremacy?  
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Nov 16, 2023 15:15
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I'd be surprised if there weren't, by this point. Like, that poo poo is an industry. Supposing that kind of thing just can't be happening seems on the order of "I don't know. Let me ask my friend voiced by Stephen Crowder"
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Nov 16, 2023 15:18
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zoux posted:Because it's anti-semetic, theocratic propaganda. This is literally the opening line. So then why not just ban it, scrub it from everywhere possible, and censor it? If your assertion is that people shouldn't be reading it, it seems logical that we should then not allow people to read it. It seems odd to me that you can say people should be allowed to read something if they want but also should be discouraged from reading it as hard as possible. Like you can read bin Laden's writings but first thou must answer me these riddles three. What exactly do you want to happen here? Do you agree with The Guardian's decision to scrub the letter from their website?
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Nov 16, 2023 15:34
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Do you seriously not see the difference between "reading bin Laden's speech" and "reading bin Laden's speech on tiktok and implying there are some good ideas there"
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Nov 16, 2023 15:38
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Could it not be the opposite? The recent mainstreaming of white supremacy, for some people, has probably made something like that letter seen more palatable. I think it might be highlighting more than contributing to this trend
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Nov 16, 2023 15:38
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I'm not proposing a policy plank. All the other hateful, racist screeds I've listed are freely available, the Guardian's knee jerk reaction was wrong from both a philosophical and practical perspective. But that's changing the subject: what I want to happen is for people who claim to be for international peace and liberation to stop promoting or encouraging people to read anti-semetic propaganda because it also says gently caress the USA. This was always going to be a difficult needle to thread, there are too many bigots who want to conflate what's going on in Gaza and the Jewish religion. So to make people understand that not all Jews are Israeli, or not all Jews are Zionists, and avoid the trap of falling into anit-semetic rhetoric was going to be difficult. Unfortunately, there are too many people in these spaces who should know better but are winking at these sorts of things because it helps them win internet arguments. Hey if it accidentally converts a few 20 year olds to neo-Nazism, that's too bad but I gotta get my RTs, gotta get my dunks off. zoux fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Nov 16, 2023 |
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Nov 16, 2023 15:40
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koolkal posted:People getting up in arms because people are reading a letter written by a Bad Guy is very bizarre to me. Are people only supposed to read things written by Good Guys? And I expect as many terrorists to be created as kids ate tide pods back when that was a thing The sudden surge in the videos just feels suspicious and this place is generally extra suspicious about that kind of thing.
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Nov 16, 2023 15:42
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zoux posted:I'm not proposing a policy plank. All the other hateful, racist screeds I've listed are freely available, the Guardian's knee jerk reaction was wrong from both a philosophical and practical perspective. But that's changing the subject: what I want to happen is for people who claim to be for international peace and liberation to stop promoting or encouraging people to read anti-semetic propaganda because it also says gently caress the USA. The reason it upsets me is the illusion of free information availability, when people start talking about a document that was online for 20 years it gets immediately removed. Also, it is racist garbage but the problem with taking down these documents is that it makes it hard to know what people are talking about. You quoted the wrong letter in your previous post. The first few reasons listed are all about Palestine. https://archive.is/6xSxg#selection-1283.0-1349.113 Letter to America posted:In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful,
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Nov 16, 2023 15:46
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The Bin Laden viral trend is less disheartening than Joe Biden believing spoon-fed lies.
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Nov 16, 2023 15:49
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zoux posted:Because it's anti-semetic, theocratic propaganda. This is literally the opening line. alot of people like to believe the myth that he was some heath ledger Joker like figure who wanted to make america eat itself in chaos and reveal its hypocrisy and its like nah, he had complexity but its weird then some weird wet dream that people put on him in the W years that became real to alot of people. The dude was religious nut mixed with a overly dreamy revolutionary who legit was trying to spin arab spring in his favor by having some big speech he would release because he thought he was wahabist president bartlett. he legit thought if he did some grand strike on the US, they would leave the middle east and not dare invade or gently caress with him outside a couple missle strikes. he was also a micromanaging weirdo and basicaly lost control of everything when AQ iraq decided to just do filmed super murders and kill tons of shia, bin laden wanted vague "unity" but the AQI stuff was much more popular and he was weird dude sitting in a moutain constantly under paying his two guards. I think its fine if you want to read his stuff, its interesting insight but believing he was some secret big brain insight and was some secret correct revolutionary is loving dumb and your dumb if you believe it. https://www.amazon.com/Rise-Fall-Osama-bin-Laden/dp/1982170522 good book on it.
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Nov 16, 2023 15:51
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Bin Laden Manifesto for the Cure Challenge
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Morrow posted:For some actual numbers: To be fair, that is total "wild hospital billing" cost. The actual out of pocket cost for the average person is in the article a little lower and it is about $2.6k for a normal vaginal birth. It also varies wildly by state. In Michigan, the average cost of a birth is $900. A big part of the reason is that insurance companies fight to negotiate the lowest payments and hospitals want the most money, so the prices are all just made up wild numbers that exist to be negotiated downwards. Wayne Knight posted:When the EOB shows $8k taken off the bill as the negotiated price with the insurance company you can instantly come to realize that the numbers are fake. Yeah. How aggressive your particular insurance company and whoever is billing you are has a lot more to do with the actual cost of the process than the "official cost" of the process.
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