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Ether Frenzy posted:Why are there so many dead people in this game? My 150k city with insanely good health & cemetery coverage has a constant pile of 50-100 corpses waiting for pickup literally at all times. I don't remember the obituary section in my similar sized hometown's newspaper being 20 pages every day. Anime Store Adventure posted:It is a weird thing how much Cities 1 and now 2 seem to really put a focus on 'deathcare.' I don't know how it works outside of America but I don't think of this as a municipal service worthy of like, Cities:Skylines level management? Of course, the very fact that this is the outcome of compressing in-game time would be reason enough to not even consider touching that poo poo. The bare minimum would be making it so only every tenth death actually produces a body. nielsm posted:I'm pretty sure they just wanted to have a reason to put graveyards in the game, since honestly they do take up a decent amount of space in cities. 1. Only every thirteenth death produces a body 2. Hospitals have limited storage capacity for bodies, after which they overflow into the hospital beds, reducing the quality of healthcare 3. An adjacent crematorium can process bodies directly without the need for transport 4. Hearses drive the remaining bodies to graveyards. This would be a lot closer to the actual issue of corpse-disposal throughput, which is clogged up hospitals, rather than clogged up roads.
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Nov 16, 2023 12:57
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nielsm posted:I'm pretty sure they just wanted to have a reason to put graveyards in the game, since honestly they do take up a decent amount of space in cities. I think this was a random event in SimCity 2000? - you'd be asked if you wanted a military base in your city, and if you accepted it'd be automatically plopped in a random location. You'd receive a little bonus funding, but at the cost of increased crime.
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Nov 16, 2023 13:51
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so I could say that I finally figured out what this god damned cube is doing. Get well Lowtax.
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corona familiar posted:that game truly won me over when it became clear with enough planning you can just opt out of bad traffic by never giving people cars. I just wish you could go maximum (S)E Asia and pump out bicycles for your populace Oh yeah same, you can do a surprising amount with the road tools but it's not especially appealing, cs1 and seemingly 2 especially have very good road tools by comparison. That and the cs park tools would be super nice.
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Nov 16, 2023 15:04
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Hot off the presses, last of the weekly patches for now.https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/patch-notes-for-1-0-14f1-hotfix-steam-microsoft-store.1610543/ posted:Hi everyone. Today we have another round of gameplay fixes for you, and as Mariina mentioned in the CO Word of the Week, this is the last of the weekly patches. Going forward we are working on bigger fixes, which of course take longer. CO Word of the Week continues weekly to keep you up to date on what we're up to.
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Nov 16, 2023 16:05
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quote:Increased service coverage range and capacity of the Elementary School, Medical Clinic, Hospital, Fire House, Fire Station, Police Station and Police Headquarters Does it mean you no longer have to blanket your entire city in elementary schools, perhaps? And that the extra processing unit for the water treatment is no longer a joke?
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Nov 16, 2023 16:19
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So that just basically turns police/fire/clinics into “just plop one down and forget about them until you reach megalopolis”, right?
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Nov 16, 2023 16:20
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I'm not sure what the issue with schools was in the first place, I see comments about people needing to spam them in their city (also saw a reddit post today of the same, where the person put them all next to each other  ), but I don't feel like I've ever needed an abundance of them, maybe one per large housing development district. It takes a long time to graduate anyway.
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Nov 16, 2023 16:22
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WithoutTheFezOn posted:So that just basically turns police/fire/clinics into “just plop one down and forget about them until you reach megalopolis”, right? For the first responders, there's still the range for happiness, but the speed at which trucks respond will be determined by your road network. If it is too slow, the buildings do burn down, killing occupants.
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Nov 16, 2023 16:25
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I don’t know whether you need a ton of elementary schools or not, but at a certain point (about 40k people for me) they’ll all be full, all the time. Except ones on the outskirts of my city.
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Nov 16, 2023 16:25
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For one, they have a huge footprint compared to their capacity, and visually don't mesh well with an urban environment. (The scale of the building model also seems completely wrong, try comparing the height of the floors in the elementary school to any residential building.)
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Nov 16, 2023 16:26
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Also 1000 students served by 10 employees.
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Nov 16, 2023 16:29
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WithoutTheFezOn posted:Also 1000 students served by 10 employees. The scale of workplaces in this game is pretty wild in every respect. Skyscraper offices only having like 100 people working them, etc. I think part of it may be that not every cim actually goes to work on a regular basis, only a limited number of them are, due to something about the time compression? So I think thats intentional and they're trying to balance it out with low numbers of employees everywhere, which makes the scale of things seem really wild.
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Nov 16, 2023 16:32
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piratepilates posted:I'm not sure what the issue with schools was in the first place, I see comments about people needing to spam them in their city (also saw a reddit post today of the same, where the person put them all next to each other I think people would be ok with the original capacity if the building wasn't gigantic WithoutTheFezOn posted:Also 1000 students served by 10 employees. reading the news here in philly this seems accurate 
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Nov 16, 2023 16:33
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Needing a lot of elementary schools is fine and realistic, but the school having such a huge footprint isn't. Kiel, a city of 250k, has 32 elementary schools spread throughout the city.
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Nov 16, 2023 16:40
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Antigravitas posted:Needing a lot of elementary schools is fine and realistic, but the school having such a huge footprint isn't. Kiel, a city of 250k, has 32 elementary schools spread throughout the city. The American town I went to school in has 4 public elementary schools for a bit under 40k population, but private schools are also a thing, and seem like 20% of students overall (might be different for elementary level), so something like one school for roughly 8,000 inhabitants seems roughly consistent with both, though I imagine school sizes may vary greatly in between countries.
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Nov 16, 2023 16:46
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The school change is either not actually in at all or only to its service range. 
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Nov 16, 2023 16:49
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Surely they need to increase ranges when you implement bus routes within a certain distance from the asset.
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Nov 16, 2023 16:54
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They do merge really early to the point it can cause huge issues though. Before they decide to merge they'll use the full highway though. piratepilates posted:I'm not sure what the issue with schools was in the first place, I see comments about people needing to spam them in their city (also saw a reddit post today of the same, where the person put them all next to each other The problem is if you have a dense downtown you need a school every block or so to actually give coverage. My downtown has 4 elementary schools surrounding it and the center is still dark red for coverage. Skyl3lazer fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Nov 16, 2023 |
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Nov 16, 2023 17:11
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OddObserver posted:The American town I went to school in has 4 public elementary schools for a bit under 40k population, but private schools are also a thing, and seem like 20% of students overall (might be different for elementary level), so something like one school for roughly 8,000 inhabitants seems roughly consistent with both, though I imagine school sizes may vary greatly in between countries. That said, school sizes as you mention probably do affect this quite a lot. Not that they're the only thing that changes depending on the country. Like, there's a factor 2.5 difference in usable residential floor area per capita between the two extremes in the EU, and then you have Canada, the US, and Australia adding 30, 40, and 60% respectively on top of the Danish EU record. I'm not sure that can actually be represented by merely using the existing different zone types, you'd probably need a super-low density McMansion zone type to really push that Anglo-colonial style.
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Nov 16, 2023 17:23
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It seems like an okay change to me? I mean you'll still need to build more schools if they are filled to capacity, and if you want to get the happiness bonus you'll want them placed more frequently. But this just increases the catchment area so they can work as rural schools
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Nov 16, 2023 18:04
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i live in a town with a population around 14,000 and i think we have at least six or seven elementary schools. i think a lot of people may not realize how many there actually are, I saw someone claim that Lincoln Park had two elementary schools in it, but if you actually look at a map and include all of the private/magnet/charter/whatever schools it's closer to 20Mandoric posted:The school change is either not actually in at all or only to its service range. the service range was the issue they're addressing. for whatever reason happiness/property value's metric for determining if a household has available school access is tied to the building's service range, rather than something like pathfinding cost to a nearby school with an open slot. because of this you could have cities with more than adequate education services where the entire population would be melting down about not having schools because they're mad if they're more than three blocks away from one. same with healthcare probably, it's just a stupid way of calculating things turn off the TV fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Nov 16, 2023 |
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Nov 16, 2023 18:52
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The fact that cargo economy which seems to be tied to the mail and garbage issue (the 10x throughput was just a bandaid it seems) hasn't been mentioned or iterated on is concerning. That is part of the core economic modeling which touches every part of the game including traffic since it should generate trucks and movement of goods. Also it doesn't mention anything about people shopping directly at industry sites for no reason bypassing commercial for certain items. It suggests that there are deeply rooted problems in the entire model that needs to be addressed.
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Nov 16, 2023 19:51
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The problem is how amped elementary demand is, how suppressed the others are, and how forcibly undense the footprints are. For the first, comparing numbers from my save: Total pop. 162,000 Elementary demand 26,627 = 16.4% High demand 2,163 = 1.3% Compare the state of California, which makes their numbers easy to see: Total pop. 39,240,000 Elementary students 2,768,614 = 7.0% Intermediate students 888,647 High students 1,790,858 collectively = 6.8% Consolidated K-12 students 300,310 = 0.8% C:S2 does not appear to expose counts of how many "child" and "teen" cims there are, it certainly isn't in the charts and graphs panel, so I can't speculate on how much of this is new city baby boom. I can't imagine too much given the obligatory deathcare waves or the panel that does specify around 1,500 births a display month. But this is several display years in; surely at least some of them would be going to high school? It doesn't appear to be an access issue given that attendance is within a couple percent of eligible. It just looks like all "children", including 0-4 and 12-15, always go to elementary school while some "teens", only 16-19, go to high school. Second is how big the footprints--not necessarily the buildings--are. I come from a very rural area--the core town is around 15,000, the elementary district I attended serves a village of around 3,500--and mine was an L shape composed of a roughly 30x30, 2-floor, 2-6 + services main building and a 10x30 1-floor K-1 wing, all together designed to serve 500 students. So, okay, ground student density of around 2.4m^2/student, floor student density of 4.2m^2/student. C:S2 tiles appear to be 8 meters--that's what granularity road lengths come in, two minivans can part nose to tail in one, etc. At lowest they're 6.875, there are 16 tiles between goalposts on an American football field. And the elementary school is 8x5 in terms of physical building, for at the most charitable 55mx35m for 1000 students = ground student density 1.925m'2/student but floor student density 3.85m^2/student. Making a more apples-to-apples comparison would just be with the 30x30 wing designed for 400, at which point my experienced ground density = ground density 2.25m^2 per head and floor density 4.5m^2 per. So okay, the size of the physical building isn't a problem, for sufficiently rural enough schools. What happens if we look "downtown"? There we find a 15x30 4-story building, no longer a school, that was closed because the standardization on a par of 500 meant it wasn't full enough, though I'm not sure what its rated capacity once was. (Ironically, given this conversation, the students were merged into another school directly across the street with whom they'd previously shared a schoolyard!) But here comes the rough part--the C:S2 elementary school also includes mandatory landscaping. Not a mandatory schoolyard, the schoolyard is an optional extra that takes even more room. Not something that can be fiddled around by placing public playgrounds or sports fields near it as is standard in urban areas. Just useless landscaping. And that brings us to 18x8 tiles, 124 x 55 meters, for even 1000 students. 6.82m^2/per ground student density, nearly triple what I got in the middle of nowhere where space was at no premium but funding was guaranteed by the state so the architect could just go hog wild (we had four separate schoolyards, one a full-sized football field for elementary schoolers!) More than ten times what the downtown one built when we thought we might become a city was if we eyeball it at 750 students! (Also, TBH, things that don't fit neatly in zonable depth hurt from either direction because of how C:S makes roads mandatory. That cell mast has to go directly off a road, take 2x2, and make 4x2 completely unusable; the cell mast I'm making this post through lives in the back corner of a supermarket parking lot and knocks off about 8 cars worth of parking. An elementary school in its optimal home, a 12xn block, just blights its opposite to max 4xn which is rarely max density for the zone type. But that's a complaint for another day.)
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Nov 16, 2023 19:56
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speaking of the cell mast idea, it would be cool if they took the upgrade-in-place feature and added it to every building like, you can click on a large building of a certain size and get the option of a cell mast, underground parking, post box, police kiosk, clinic, subway station click on a low density residential building to get an ADU or something lol posting all these big brained ideas like CO will ever do them
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Nov 16, 2023 20:09
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what's the TO&E of an American elementary school
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Nov 16, 2023 20:35
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VostokProgram posted:what's the TO&E of an American elementary school Are we talking equipped with M89 or M23 students? Rivet count's gone way down as denim jackets went out of style. 
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Nov 16, 2023 20:40
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MikeC posted:The fact that cargo economy which seems to be tied to the mail and garbage issue (the 10x throughput was just a bandaid it seems) hasn't been mentioned or iterated on is concerning. That is part of the core economic modeling which touches every part of the game including traffic since it should generate trucks and movement of goods. Also it doesn't mention anything about people shopping directly at industry sites for no reason bypassing commercial for certain items. Or like the game was released too early and that feature was not fully implemented.
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Nov 16, 2023 20:43
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Mandoric posted:Compare the state of California, which makes their numbers easy to see: Let's not set the precedent of using California as a good baseline for anything 
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Nov 16, 2023 20:51
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Multiple buildings would help, I think part of the problem (other than the service radius nonsense not working) is that there's just one school and for some reason it's scaled up like crazy. Give me multiple school models, including some that fit in an urban area, and literally just shrink the current one to like 40% its current size so it has the same scale as other buildings and it'd be a lot better.
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Nov 16, 2023 22:37
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piratepilates posted:The scale of workplaces in this game is pretty wild in every respect. Skyscraper offices only having like 100 people working them, etc. The scale of everything is hosed up, and some of the weirdest bits of design cruft crop up when two incompatible scales collide. Eg having to give commercial buildings a failsafe mode because it's possible for their delivery trucks to get stuck in a traffic jam that lasts longer than it takes for them to go out of business
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Nov 17, 2023 00:03
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Some of the late game development point unlocks are pretty funny, the grand bridge has already been brought up, but that automated car park tower is pretty funny, the one that's bugged if you remove/bulldoze it keeping the cars floating, or how it barely keeps more cars than other parking lots in it, or how you can only place it once, etc. The rest of the development tree is pretty OK, but by the end its some pretty funny choices.
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Nov 17, 2023 03:16
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piratepilates posted:Some of the late game development point unlocks are pretty funny, the grand bridge has already been brought up, but that automated car park tower is pretty funny, the one that's bugged if you remove/bulldoze it keeping the cars floating, or how it barely keeps more cars than other parking lots in it, or how you can only place it once, etc. I was on the fence about this one due to the other issues I am having with parking lots, but I need a tower of floating cars in my city.
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Nov 17, 2023 03:44
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Unbound posted:I was on the fence about this one due to the other issues I am having with parking lots, but I need a tower of floating cars in my city. alas 
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Nov 17, 2023 04:26
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skooma512 posted:Or like the game was released too early and that feature was not fully implemented. However you want to slice it, this is bad. This is the last of the weekly hotfixes. No more are coming meaning at least 2 weeks before we see another fix. The tone of the word of the week and the opening patch notes sounds ominously like a pre xmas patch and thats it. Hopefully that patch will be the big one that fixes core gameplay.
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Nov 17, 2023 04:52
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My automated car park is right in the busiest/heaviest traffic area of my 150k city, it usually has about 16 cars in it.
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Nov 17, 2023 06:28
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Ether Frenzy posted:My automated car park is right in the busiest/heaviest traffic area of my 150k city, it usually has about 16 cars in it. how much street parking do you have? I've tried to build a city with almost no street parking (mostly ped malls with trams and alleys for zoning, wide sidewalks on streets for arterial roads) and cims are desperate for parking. I relented and built two of the underground structures and they fill up immediately (and cause a huge traffic jam when they do)
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Nov 17, 2023 07:28
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There's tons city wide, but not really a lot in the 4-5ish block radius of the parking garage. Apparently cims will walk 25 minutes to save $9.95/hr
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Nov 17, 2023 07:50
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Ether Frenzy posted:There's tons city wide, but not really a lot in the 4-5ish block radius of the parking garage. Apparently cims will walk 25 minutes to save $9.95/hr A city populated entirely by my dad.
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Nov 17, 2023 07:52
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Felt. lol. Dads, amirite?
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Nov 17, 2023 07:54
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Ether Frenzy posted:Felt. lol. My dad, much like the roaming pack of dogs, was patched out of my life. Leaving a void to never be filled.
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Nov 17, 2023 08:15
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