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Gray Ghost posted:RLM did a Half in the Bag that I tend to agree with: a lot of the comedy is meandering improv and pretty nonsensical compared to the original’s tightly scripted stuff. That said I really liked the cast of the new one and wanted it to succeed more than it did. Just to illustrate this, here's the scene where the original ghostbusters are fired. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_vHbFQRT3Y The dean is a ridiculous overwrought character but he's just a real person turned up to 11 and everything he's saying is true and relevant. By contrast they had a similar fired-by-the-dean scene in Ghostbusters 2016 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSBcgqnI4y0 And the scene itself probably brought more laughs than the original one. But it's just a comedian messing around and going for the laugh and doesn't make me believe in the world or care more about the characters. And don't get me started on the difference in blocking and details like the wheeling out the lab equipment and the taking the binoculars or camera back when they were being worn vs just sitting there and calling the dean immature. FishFood posted:Nah, I think the original Ghostbusters is a comedy with a bug budget and adventure elements. It's just that it's a type of movie that has kind of disappeared: it's tightly scripted and uses a lot of wordplay while comedies have moved pretty far away from that in the last 20 years. Modern comedies all have these long scenes of extended improv so any movies that have more traditional (read: better) pacing don't feel like comedies to people more used to the modern style. Edgar Wright should do more comedies.
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Nov 16, 2023 21:20
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The revelation that modern comedies have significant unscripted improv segments explains so much about why I haven’t found a comedy funny in ages. Writing is the cheapest part of the process, goddamnit, stop skimping on it in films with budgets in the tens or hundreds of millions.
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Nov 16, 2023 23:10
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Kestral posted:The revelation that modern comedies have significant unscripted improv segments explains so much about why I haven’t found a comedy funny in ages. I assume its got more to do with the fact I can type "funny" into any video sharing platforms and get more videos of any kind of funny than I could actually ever watch.
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Nov 16, 2023 23:29
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Kestral posted:The revelation that modern comedies have significant unscripted improv segments explains so much about why I haven’t found a comedy funny in ages. 
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Nov 17, 2023 00:01
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I don't think the move to improv-heavy movies was any kind of nefarious plot or even calculated, it's just a style that became popular in the 2000s and the comedians that pioneered it are still really successful today. I think it's fallen a bit out of fashion (Barbie didn't rely on improv at all) but I doubt the style will entirely disappear. The godawful writing in Hollywood blockbusters is a different issue altogether and has little to do with cost and more to do with the insane production process those movies go through. FishFood fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Nov 17, 2023 |
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Nov 17, 2023 00:02
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what if RPGs were more heavily scripted instead of totally improv, I bet that'd be more interesting to audiences too oh wait uh, hey
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Nov 17, 2023 00:32
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FishFood posted:(Barbie didn't rely on improv at all) Barbie isn't a comedy you monster.
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Nov 17, 2023 00:38
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Leperflesh posted:what if RPGs were more heavily scripted instead of totally improv, I bet that'd be more interesting to audiences too Probably would if the target market for RPGs was audiences and not players.
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Nov 17, 2023 00:51
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Midjack posted:Probably would if the target market for RPGs was audiences and not players.
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Nov 17, 2023 01:00
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are we really doing the CR or Actual Play shows are scripted thing again lol
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Nov 17, 2023 03:30
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it's a shoot
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Nov 17, 2023 03:42
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Warthur posted:Apropos of nothing, here's a shot of Critical Role's show at Wembley Arena. Also a non sequitur, I wonder how many of the people in this image actually buy RPG books rather than just consume Critical Role products and services.
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Nov 17, 2023 04:03
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Midjack posted:Also a non sequitur, I wonder how many of the people in this image actually buy RPG books rather than just consume Critical Role products and services. More than you probably think, but it's largely all 5e stuff. Some will move into the wider TTRPG space. Hey maybe now that CR made it's own Forged in the Dark type game, and whatever Daggerheart is(seemed alright from what I read of the preview) they will move to other systems.
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Nov 17, 2023 04:35
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CR also feature a lot of non-5e systems in one shots, including Deadlands, Honey Heist, Call of Cthulhu, Monsterhearts, Vampire The Masquerade, Mothership, A Familiar Problem (Marisha Ray / Grant Howitt game), and Bunkers & Badasses. I feel like the core cast would really like to do more systems but are a bit shackled to the d20 at this point.
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Nov 17, 2023 11:09
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Kestral posted:The revelation that modern comedies have significant unscripted improv segments explains so much about why I haven’t found a comedy funny in ages. There were a few big hits with that format but then it started to get copied ad nauseam and yeah the juice is gone from that kind of thing. Solo, for example, started as that kind of thing as well, which is why they had to stop like halfway through filming and put in a different director.
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Nov 17, 2023 12:41
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why watch some theater kids play rpgs?
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Nov 17, 2023 12:50
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ChubbyChecker posted:why watch some theater kids play rpgs? Because it's entertaining.
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Nov 17, 2023 12:52
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Why go to watch an improv show at a theater. Why watch someone play a video game on twitch and so on. They make something some people find engaging and fun to watch.
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Nov 17, 2023 13:01
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Why read a fantasy novel?
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Nov 17, 2023 13:53
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I simply have sex 24/7 and ignore all other pursuits.
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Nov 17, 2023 14:04
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The young people just really like parasocial relationships these days.
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Nov 17, 2023 15:23
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FMguru posted:I think so - it innovated the system by changing the way you look at the dice you roll (looking for 'successes' rather than just summing them up) but the basic framework is still there (your stat and your skill are measured by the number of dice you roll, more dice = better) and I don't think that kind of system was anywhere to be found before GB in 1986. Not true though; Ghostbusters and Star Wars use the dice pool with the total roll sum vs a single target number. Shadowrun I *think* was the first that was looking for individual success on each die. The more I think about the Shadowrun style mechanics, the more it feels like it might have been influenced by the actual gameplay of Games Workshop tabletop games, but that's a tangent I don't really have time for right now.
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Nov 17, 2023 15:50
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FASA being FASA, that makes a lot of sense.
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Nov 17, 2023 15:54
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moths posted:The young people just really like parasocial relationships these days. It's not even that...Well, okay yeah it's sorta that, as yeah once you look in on that fandom it gets weird like you get with any fandom as identity type situation. But like it's literally just a form of entertainment. It's possible to watch it without getting all weird and parasocial about it. I don't know the people behind Friends at the Table, or D20 but I enjoy the podcast/videos they create and listen to it.
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Nov 17, 2023 15:55
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Lamuella posted:CR also feature a lot of non-5e systems in one shots, including Deadlands, Honey Heist, Call of Cthulhu, Monsterhearts, Vampire The Masquerade, Mothership, A Familiar Problem (Marisha Ray / Grant Howitt game), and Bunkers & Badasses. I feel like the core cast would really like to do more systems but are a bit shackled to the d20 at this point.
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Nov 17, 2023 16:15
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Their next campaign is almost assuredly going to be using their own system. Also didn't the TAZ bros say that switching from 5e torched their viewership which is why they went back? It's been a while so I might be misremembering that, as I've never been able to get into TAZ.
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Nov 17, 2023 16:49
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FMguru posted:I think so - it innovated the system by changing the way you look at the dice you roll (looking for 'successes' rather than just summing them up) but the basic framework is still there (your stat and your skill are measured by the number of dice you roll, more dice = better) and I don't think that kind of system was anywhere to be found before GB in 1986. That's a really good point about how the stats are measured, though it makes me wonder more if GB/SWD6 influenced Shadowrun in that regard because I would think then that Earthdawn would've measured its stats in a similar manner. But instead it had, iirc, ranks that were more like D&D's stats, which you then looked up on a table to see which combination of dice you would roll. So like (I'm pulling these numbers out of my rear end because I haven't looked at Earthdawn rules in 30 years) you'd have a Strength of 16, which would translate to rolling D12+D8 against a TN to determine success or failure. EdsTeioh posted:Not true though; Ghostbusters and Star Wars use the dice pool with the total roll sum vs a single target number. Shadowrun I *think* was the first that was looking for individual success on each die. The more I think about the Shadowrun style mechanics, the more it feels like it might have been influenced by the actual gameplay of Games Workshop tabletop games, but that's a tangent I don't really have time for right now. I can see what you're saying and it makes a lot of sense. Maybe they weren't influenced by GW games specifically; they could've been influenced by MB's big wargames like Axis&Allies or Shogun or any number of other wargames. But I can totally see Shadowrun's system being inspired by rolling piles of dice and picking out successes in a wargame. One thing that struck me as I thought about this last night is that GB/SWD6 may be even more influential than FMguru said. It could've been the inspiration for dice pools like in Shadowrun and WoD. It could've also been the inspiration for TSR's Gamma World 4E rules that would eventually spawn WotC's D20 system. Correct me if I'm wrong, but RPG rules in the 80s basically boiled down to either rules that were influenced by D&D's cross-referencing numbers on a table or rules that were influenced by D&D's ability scores, Chaosium rules, and Traveler where your stat was the number you had to roll under or over on a D20, D100, or 2D6. GB/SWD6 is the first system I can think of where you resolve actions by rolling dice and adding numbers to hit a target number. If it's what inspired Gamma World 4E's proto-D20 system, it's ultimately the granddaddy of the most widely used RPG dice mechanic there is. Please excuse me for harping on SWD6 so much, but when I think about that system, I'm always impressed by how clever and cinematic it is for such an early RPG system. The way you declare actions, roll those actions, and then determine initiative and action order from those rolls leads to great narrative results. The way improving skills allows characters to attempt more actions with those skills leads to great action hero moments.
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Nov 17, 2023 16:49
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PeterWeller posted:Please excuse me for harping on SWD6 so much, but when I think about that system, I'm always impressed by how clever and cinematic it is for such an early RPG system. The way you declare actions, roll those actions, and then determine initiative and action order from those rolls leads to great narrative results. The way improving skills allows characters to attempt more actions with those skills leads to great action hero moments. Another early RPG that had you reading the dice differently was Champions (1981), where you rolled piles of D6s for attacks, added them up to determine stun damage, and then added them a different way to determine body (permanent, deadly) damage.
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Nov 17, 2023 16:59
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Dexo posted:Their next campaign is almost assuredly going to be using their own system.
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Nov 17, 2023 17:02
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FishFood posted:I don't think the move to improv-heavy movies was any kind of nefarious plot or even calculated, it's just a style that became popular in the 2000s and the comedians that pioneered it are still really successful today. I think it's fallen a bit out of fashion (Barbie didn't rely on improv at all) but I doubt the style will entirely disappear. Also the lines they're improvising are just places in the script that would get marked for punch up anyway. The alternative takes you get with those lines are just additional options for punch up that the director and editor consider in the editing bay, that's literally it.
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Nov 17, 2023 17:51
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moths posted:The young people just really like parasocial relationships these days. I think people have always loved parasocial relationships. We're just a lot better at them now.
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Nov 17, 2023 19:23
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admanb posted:I think people have always loved parasocial relationships. We're just a lot better at them now. They didn't really exist before the internet. Maaaaybe televangelists.
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Nov 17, 2023 19:29
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admanb posted:I think people have always loved parasocial relationships. We're just a lot better at them now. Yeah people would send fan mail to a celebrity and that celebrity would send a signed photo back and that meant that they read your letter and knew who you are and you have a personal relationship with them! But you generally just got a handful of weird stalkers out of that, maybe some hundreds of beetles fans who imagine they have a relationship they don't as well, whereas these days I think there's literally millions of fans of social media stars whose brains are telling them they have a two-way meaningful relationship with the person on twitch/youtube/onlyfans/whatever who answered their posts with a response or called them out on stream to say thank you or whatever. So it's amplified something that was already there by 1000x.
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Nov 17, 2023 19:33
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Bottom Liner posted:They didn't really exist before the internet. Maaaaybe televangelists. Callers to talk radio and DJs. Howard Stern has a bunch still.
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Nov 17, 2023 19:36
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It's also a factor of whole immersion new media ecosystems and consumption-as-identity. If the Partridge Family or KISS could have monetized harder, they would have. We might never have escaped Beatlemania if it broke out the era of Discord, Twitch, and socials
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Nov 17, 2023 19:40
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Bottom Liner posted:They didn't really exist before the internet. Maaaaybe televangelists.
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Nov 17, 2023 19:50
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Terrible Opinions posted:There is no way to explain how people in America react to the British royal family in general and Diana in specific besides a parasocial relationship. You could probably make an argument that a lot of historical systems of monarchy relied on parasocial relationships, with kings drawing their power against the aristocracy from their status as representatives or embodiments of their subjects and gaining that legitimacy and popularity from what amount to parasocial relationships.
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Nov 17, 2023 19:54
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Our stone age brains are accustomed to anyone whose face we've seen being someone we "know" at least via extended family groups and contact with neighboring ones. Having someone you know reject you as an acquaintance by denying knowing you feels bad because your social status is a significant factor affecting your survival. We're at least somewhat evolved to instinctively think of the people we know as being influences on our lives, and the more we pay attention to someone, the more likely they're high status, or family, or dangerous, or in some way a significant factor in our lives. Social media has evolved into highly refined systems for preying on (monetizing) those instincts. The more we see the streamer's face, the more we learn about the celebrity's life, the more we interact in some way with the youtuber, the more we feel that poo poo deep down. It takes a conscious recognition and effort to try to recontextualize those feelings and compartmentalize people we recognize and think we know a lot about as actually just curated entertainment products we're consuming. Some folks are really bad at that and a lot don't recognize what's going on enough to know that they should be doing that.
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Nov 17, 2023 20:01
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Bottom Liner posted:They didn't really exist before the internet. Maaaaybe televangelists. Political parties.
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Nov 17, 2023 20:08
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Bottom Liner posted:They didn't really exist before the internet. Maaaaybe televangelists. There were Beatles fans in the mid sixties who could talk to you for literally hours about why Linda Eastman was no good for Paul McCartney and he should marry Jane Asher instead.
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Nov 17, 2023 20:40
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