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Star posted:I just had the UK force me to add an IG to my government. Never seen that before, was it added with 1.5? They definitely can now make you change laws with certain interactions, didn't know IGs was also on the table.
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Nov 18, 2023 12:01
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Vagabong posted:Does anyone know how tough a Paraguyan campaign would be? I want to check out the new content, but I've not played with the new military mechanics yet, so its unclear how much of an uphill battle it would be. It seems like it'd be pretty hard, only the UK has an interest in the area so if Argentina or Brazil want to eat you, you're toast. I'd recommend Brazil or, if you're not interested in them, Chile or Argentina. They have some colonisation options and some wars with Peru-Bolivia and the new mechanics with having to create a national identity from scratch added in the patch, are also available to them.
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Nov 18, 2023 12:21
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God, it just ain't working. I got coal at +33% price, I got the coal mine at 11.3 productivity, the number is even colored green, and they still can't pull peasants out of subsistence farms. I can't flood the market with grain through trade, mass-building farms didn't work (especially since they run into their own staffing issues), doing both doesn't work because they end up stepping on each other's toes. Maybe I should just keep iterating on the industrial good loop, leave a university in there, and hope they migrate or something, I dunno. Or maybe just wait for 1.5.10, they did acknowledge something's off with job satisfaction in any case
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Nov 18, 2023 13:26
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Star posted:I just had the UK force me to add an IG to my government. Never seen that before, was it added with 1.5? Did you owe them an obligation? That interaction has been in for a while, but they’re much more likely to try to force you into their custom union with it.
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Nov 18, 2023 13:27
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I think on top of the actual historical reasons for it being difficult to pull peasants off their farms, there might be a bug where they're calculating their job satisfaction based on a nominal wage that their "building" only pays them part of
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Nov 18, 2023 14:46
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Has anyone else had problems with wars not ending when the other side’s at -100 war support and fully occupied? I had that in a civil war as Persia and I’m getting it conquering Sindh as Sikh Empire. In the Persia war Russia joined against me and it only ended when they gave up, they weren’t asking for a war goal. In the Sikh one Britain’s joined against me for nothing and it feels like I’m going to be stuck waiting them out too.
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Nov 18, 2023 16:15
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Yeah I have run into really slow degradation of war support if a country has a big brother in the war, even if that country is completely overrun. I'm not sure if it blocks anything; the main time this came up i accidentally accepted a white peace request while i was waiting for war support to tick down. It was iron man so i chose rage quitting over honor.
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Nov 18, 2023 16:19
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It’s not even slow, they’re sitting at -100 with -20 per month for years without auto capitulating. The war just ended when Britain gave up even though they were non negotiating 
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Nov 18, 2023 16:22
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Kagon posted:Did you owe them an obligation? That interaction has been in for a while, but they’re much more likely to try to force you into their custom union with it. Hmm I might have. I don’t remember them receiving one but maybe they bankrolled me or something. Anyhow, I am doing a Serbia into Yugoslavia game, which has been challenging but fun. You start as an OPM and are boxed in by Austria and the Ottomans so you need to expand carefully and smart and play the GPs versus each others. It has also been a good opportunity to try out small but high quality armies and so far it’s been working out. I declared war versus Romania with the goal to grab Wallachia and I knew that Russia would side with them as they had a defensive pact. But I also knew that they both ran peasant levies so I had been focusing my military techs to have a strong advantage in off/def numbers and killing power. So I went on the defensive for almost two years with my army led by the best defensive generals, racking up a 3:1 kill rate and forcing Russia to peace out. Then I easily crushed Romania and took the province.
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Nov 18, 2023 17:44
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:Its this, or at least its two iirc. Basically if you do /every/ positive you can abolish slavery and make one whoopsy. I don't think you even have any margin if you cant marginalize the landowners+armed forces in time Yep in my effort to make a functioning country I have also made more than my allotted one error and now need Pedro to live to 95 so I can complete the naval thing. They should consider rethinking how this works!
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Nov 18, 2023 17:51
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Is there some issue with naval landings, I had Russia try to naval land on me to open up a new front (cool and smart AI play!) but the naval landing never actually generated any battles and the Russian navy eventually left like a year later. As far as I understand it their troops should have started fighting mine to make a beachhead. Also I had the extremely weird situation of having my entire selection of IGs being lead by four positivists, a reformer, and whoever the head of the religious group was. The first time I've ever passed a law which was approved by five different IGs
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Nov 18, 2023 17:54
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ro5s posted:It’s not even slow, they’re sitting at -100 with -20 per month for years without auto capitulating. The war just ended when Britain gave up even though they were non negotiating its a display error when a country becomes a protectorate in return for a big brother being called in to protect them -- its treated like a bad mix of both, where you have to cap out the leader but they dont get the extra ticking they'd normally have. I'm guessing the solution here is sort of like how you'd cheese recognition plays and add some lovely islands to your wargoal against the big ones and occupy that tl;dr brits were the negotiating partner
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Nov 18, 2023 18:00
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RabidWeasel posted:Is there some issue with naval landings, I had Russia try to naval land on me to open up a new front (cool and smart AI play!) but the naval landing never actually generated any battles and the Russian navy eventually left like a year later. As far as I understand it their troops should have started fighting mine to make a beachhead. Paradox confirmed there’s a couple bugs with naval invasions where defeated fleets can redeploy almost immediately before fully repairing or recovering manpower. This might be what was blocking the invasion.
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Nov 18, 2023 18:10
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toasterwarrior posted:God, it just ain't working. I got coal at +33% price, I got the coal mine at 11.3 productivity, the number is even colored green, and they still can't pull peasants out of subsistence farms. I can't flood the market with grain through trade, mass-building farms didn't work (especially since they run into their own staffing issues), doing both doesn't work because they end up stepping on each other's toes. New player here, but I was coming to the thread for help but it seems like I might be having the same problem? Except mine is with a literal goldmine.  What was throwing me off is I started a Japan game to try to test building an economy in isolation and the gold rush went fine, then I ended up restarting to try some things differently and this time no one would leave their subsistence farms for the massively profitable gold mine no matter what I did. Since I'm a new player I honestly don't know if it's a bug or if I'm doing something wrong.
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Nov 18, 2023 18:16
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I'm having the same issue with a bunch of resource industries not being able to hire. I have a lead shortage in my market, but my lead mines just can't seem to hire people.
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Nov 18, 2023 18:51
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lol was coming in here to check if anyone was having trouble to get their buildings going with a workforce *queue 5 posters posting*
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Nov 18, 2023 19:04
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From an external QA person on the paradox forumsquote:Here is my take-away from the 1.5 job satisfaction changes:
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Nov 18, 2023 19:12
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That's one way to make land enclosures to force peasants off their farms required!
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Nov 18, 2023 20:29
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The point about productivity is a good one, if you have peasants turning their noses up at a job try exporting the output goods to push up the price - even if you'd rather actually keep the price low for market reasons.
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Nov 18, 2023 20:44
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This really explains why it's so much harder for me this time. I started up an independent California run, and have had a miserable time trying to get anyone to go from subsistence farms to pretty much any of my industries. The iron-lumber-tools loop just won't fire because none of the raw resource industries can hire employees.
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Nov 18, 2023 21:17
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To be fair, peasants should probably not want to work in mines or lumber industries if they have the choice unless those jobs are paying much higher wages than being a peasant.
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Nov 18, 2023 21:23
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RabidWeasel posted:The point about productivity is a good one, if you have peasants turning their noses up at a job try exporting the output goods to push up the price - even if you'd rather actually keep the price low for market reasons. Price doesn't seem to factor into it. I couldn't get them to move from subsistence rice farms to a gold mine, and the gold mine was ridiculously profitable. It seems like if they have a job and have their minimum requirements met they won't shift jobs no matter what, even if it would be much better for them and even involve jumping up in strata. The only thing I can think of is trying to drive the cost of their desired goods up so high they can't afford them on their current job, thought I haven't tested if that would work. Bremen fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Nov 18, 2023 |
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Nov 18, 2023 21:26
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DrSunshine posted:This really explains why it's so much harder for me this time. I started up an independent California run, and have had a miserable time trying to get anyone to go from subsistence farms to pretty much any of my industries. The iron-lumber-tools loop just won't fire because none of the raw resource industries can hire employees. Sounds like a reasonable simulation and frustrating gameplay! Have you tried subsidizing all your mines? Bremen posted:Price doesn't seem to factor into it. I couldn't get them to move from subsistence rice farms to a gold mine, and the gold mine was ridiculously profitable. It seems like if they have a job and have their minimum requirements met they won't shift jobs no matter what, even if it would be much better for them and even involve jumping up in strata.
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Nov 18, 2023 21:34
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Bremen posted:Price doesn't seem to factor into it. I couldn't get them to move from subsistence rice farms to a gold mine, and the gold mine was ridiculously profitable. It seems like if they have a job and have their minimum requirements met they won't shift jobs no matter what, even if it would be much better for them and even involve jumping up in strata. IIRC gold as a good sells at base cost of 100 all the time, but gold mines only generate half the output of other mines, so compared to something like an iron mine at +50% cost it's not the best paying job out there. The extra minting value generated by gold is, as far as I'm aware, totally independent of its "goods value" E: Since a lot of people are having problems with this the base cause of not being able to turn subsistence farmers into other jobs is job satisfaction. Subsistence farming has high job satisfaction because it provides them with a shitload of goods in addition to the stuff they actually produce to market (IIRC on the tooltip it's called something like "subsistence income"). There's fundamentally 3 different ways to get around this issue: 1. Build so many farm / pasture buildings in a state that there is zero arable land. No space for subsistence farms, peasants have to go work in the fields / factories. 2. Educate the peasants enough that they are smart enough to be working a middle class job, they will then be able to be recruited to a middle class position even if it lowers their SOL - the desire to work a more qualified job can outweigh pay / SOL 3. Make the jobs on offer more attractive relative to subsistence farming. This means driving down the value of the goods produced by subsistence farms (mostly grain, but they also make some furniture and clothes and stuff) and driving up the value of whatever's being made in your factories. This approach seems difficult because you need to get pops to actually work in your farms / factories in the first place, but it could theoretically work, in particular with rice farms. RabidWeasel fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Nov 18, 2023 |
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Nov 18, 2023 21:39
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RabidWeasel posted:IIRC gold as a good sells at base cost of 100 all the time, but gold mines only generate half the output of other mines, so compared to something like an iron mine at +50% cost it's not the best paying job out there. The extra minting value generated by gold is, as far as I'm aware, totally independent of its "goods value" That might be how it's supposed to work but I definitely don't think the gold mine not being profitable enough is the problem here:  Also as you can see in my previous screenshot a number of the subsistence farmers are educated enough to become shopkeepers, which is a middle strata job, but they're still refusing too because they're satisfied as subsistence farmers
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Nov 18, 2023 22:12
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I'm not having any problems with getting people to move up in jobs as France, but I am seeing a bug where every time someone with a war goal peaces out the war is still on but all armies leave the fronts they're on and head back to HQ, regardless of whether that was a front created by the country that peaced out. "Ah Schaumberg-Lippe gave up, let's all abandon the Prussian border folks."
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Nov 18, 2023 22:34
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Bremen posted:That might be how it's supposed to work but I definitely don't think the gold mine not being profitable enough is the problem here: The only other thing I can think of which might cause weird results is that buildings can only hire in fixed chunks of employment and if you can't fulfil everything they won't hire at all, so you might just not be able to hit the required number of pops (IIRC it's either 5 or 10%) Out of curiosity if you drill down into the pop detail for the subsistence farmers in that state what does it say about their job satisfaction? Go to the subsistence farm, click workforce, scroll down to where there's peasants, click the dropdown tab and then mouse over the pop itself; there will be a tooltip about job satisfaction with a number which if you hover over it will show another tooltip indicating how the pops feel about their situation.
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Nov 18, 2023 23:12
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Bremen posted:That might be how it's supposed to work but I definitely don't think the gold mine not being profitable enough is the problem here: Check the workforce of the mine, I have a similar issue with a rubber plantation, where despite being profitable it refuses to hire. Turns out everyone is getting paid an absurd amount of money, but the aristocrats and clergy are starving anyway. Market access is 100%, and there isn't anything strange I can tell with local prices.
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Nov 18, 2023 23:16
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RabidWeasel posted:1. Build so many farm / pasture buildings in a state that there is zero arable land. No space for subsistence farms, peasants have to go work in the fields / factories. Hypothetically this would be one way to make farm automation more valuable - build highly automated plantations, divest yourself of the need for hordes of cheap peasants while displacing them and suck the remainder off into factories.
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Nov 18, 2023 23:18
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Yeah okay I've never had issues with gold mines not being filled out but the fact that it can happen is hosed. Are you using production methods that make it require inputs like coal or something
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Nov 18, 2023 23:20
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Tomn posted:Hypothetically this would be one way to make farm automation more valuable - build highly automated plantations, divest yourself of the need for hordes of cheap peasants while displacing them and suck the remainder off into factories. this is the primary use case for it yeah. you don't really want lots of people on plantations in your imperial core at least, and automation makes enclosure much more effective
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Nov 18, 2023 23:35
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Tomn posted:Hypothetically this would be one way to make farm automation more valuable - build highly automated plantations, divest yourself of the need for hordes of cheap peasants while displacing them and suck the remainder off into factories. The main reason why this doesn't usually become a thing is that you're generally either running out of pop (and therefore don't have spare people to throw at growing corn, even if it's super efficient) or you have too much pop and you want them to keep working. p.s. I don't know when they added Pakistan as a formable but I guess I have a good reason to do an Afghanistan game now
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Nov 18, 2023 23:39
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Barono posted:Check the workforce of the mine, I have a similar issue with a rubber plantation, where despite being profitable it refuses to hire. Turns out everyone is getting paid an absurd amount of money, but the aristocrats and clergy are starving anyway. Market access is 100%, and there isn't anything strange I can tell with local prices. Lol laborers living high on the hog enjoying porcelain and servants while the aristocrats are starving on grain and fish.
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Nov 18, 2023 23:47
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Arrath posted:Lol laborers living high on the hog enjoying porcelain and servants while the aristocrats are starving on grain and fish. Though the aristocrats have much higher income, so presumably they have a lot of very nice candles.
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Nov 18, 2023 23:58
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Barono posted:Check the workforce of the mine, I have a similar issue with a rubber plantation, where despite being profitable it refuses to hire. Turns out everyone is getting paid an absurd amount of money, but the aristocrats and clergy are starving anyway. Market access is 100%, and there isn't anything strange I can tell with local prices. That is really, really weird. The average annual wage for aristos should be going a lot further than it is, and it can't be a local pricing thing because they all live in the same place. Try cracking open one of the aristo pops to really dig deep on where their money is going and why?
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Nov 19, 2023 00:13
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Bremen posted:New player here, but I was coming to the thread for help but it seems like I might be having the same problem? Except mine is with a literal goldmine. I think it's just a bug, the job satisfaction system is new and still needs some tweaking. I had exactly the same problem in my Japan run. I think the best way to handle it in general right now is to just wait for it to resolve on its own, as the problem will naturally clear up as your population grows and becomes more educated. Still sucks for situations like Hokkaido where it's a low-pop state with gold mines in a country where internal migration is banned, especially since Japan could really use those gold mines right at the start. I tried forcing the peasants off the farms with enclosure and it worked horribly. All those extra farming buildings pushed Hokkaido well over its infrastructure limit and tanked its market access. Building infrastructure buildings to try to resolve that just meant the island's entire population was busy working at infrastructure buildings instead of gold mines. The island's population is just too low to try anything with.
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Nov 19, 2023 00:19
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Barono posted:Check the workforce of the mine, I have a similar issue with a rubber plantation, where despite being profitable it refuses to hire. Turns out everyone is getting paid an absurd amount of money, but the aristocrats and clergy are starving anyway. Market access is 100%, and there isn't anything strange I can tell with local prices. This is how the big canals behave if you've gone council republic, because there is straight-up no staffing PM that doesn't have upper strata involved, except that's just straight the upper strata actually earning nothing because they're supposed to skim profit/dividend but those have been redistributed. Are you running taxes 5 + graduated taxes, maybe? That would give them the money and then take it right back from them.
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Nov 19, 2023 00:21
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Yeah enclosure isn't actually viable as a tactic, you'll absolutely destroy your infrastructure and making up for it is going to be astronomically expensive
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Nov 19, 2023 00:23
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Barono posted:Check the workforce of the mine, I have a similar issue with a rubber plantation, where despite being profitable it refuses to hire. Turns out everyone is getting paid an absurd amount of money, but the aristocrats and clergy are starving anyway. Market access is 100%, and there isn't anything strange I can tell with local prices. There's only 3 employees at the mine, they have a standard of living of 24 compared to 10 for the subsistence farmers, but a job satisfaction of 35 compared to ~50 for the subsistence farmers due to a massively larger penalty due to being qualified for a higher strata. Which actually now has me wondering if the problem is the first 3 employees for the gold mine just happened to be overqualified and thus sent the average satisfaction of the job into the ground, so now the game is looking at it and saying "the subsistence farmers have a higher satisfaction than the gold miners, so they won't shift jobs". That would explain why in my first game the gold mines happily filled up and it's only the second one where a wrench got thrown in the works. RabidWeasel posted:The only other thing I can think of which might cause weird results is that buildings can only hire in fixed chunks of employment and if you can't fulfil everything they won't hire at all, so you might just not be able to hit the required number of pops (IIRC it's either 5 or 10%) Job satisfaction for the peasants at the subsistence farms is between 47 and 52 depending on culture group. toasterwarrior posted:Yeah okay I've never had issues with gold mines not being filled out but the fact that it can happen is hosed. Are you using production methods that make it require inputs like coal or something Nope, nothing like that. Vizuyos posted:I think it's just a bug, the job satisfaction system is new and still needs some tweaking. I had exactly the same problem in my Japan run. I'm kind of suspecting this myself. Which is annoying since I just signed up to try it on the free weekend and this really isn't convincing me to buy. Don't get me wrong, I'm a long term Paradox fan and I actually love their development cycle, but doing a free weekend at the same time as a major patch release introducing hard to deal with bugs isn't something I'd recommend for it. Bremen fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Nov 19, 2023 |
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Nov 19, 2023 00:24
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Mandoric posted:This is how the big canals behave if you've gone council republic, because there is straight-up no staffing PM that doesn't have upper strata involved, except that's just straight the upper strata actually earning nothing because they're supposed to skim profit/dividend but those have been redistributed. nope, still on per-capita taxation, Other buildings in the state are working normally. I did check around a bit and found a munitions plant in a different state with starving capitalists, although they had a sane wage. Maybe it's two different bugs? I also have every interest group trying to clown car into the Republican party (except the marginalized southern planters and unions), but that might just be all the leader ideologies factoring in, I have had other parties form.
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Nov 19, 2023 00:37
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