|
Warbird posted:I more or less told my personal boomers that “malware and viruses are a business and it’s better business to target other operating systems since there simply aren’t that many Macs out there vs their Windows and Linux counterparts”. They seemed to accept that and I tossed MalwareBytes on there as well as a just in case they were familiar with. Traditional antivirus hasn’t really been a needed thing in a while since Windows Defender became with a drat so it may be worth reminding him about that fact if he’s coming from Windows. Yeah he uses windows defender on his current laptop. The issue is the fact that it visibly updates daily, whereas apple only issues security updates when they’re needed. Plus I was able to point him to comparative tests which showed that windows defender was as good as third party alternatives, whereas that’s not really a thing for Macs, because third party security software has never been a big thing. At the end of the day, I can’t just tell him something like that and have him accept it, he just says ‘well that’s your opinion, I don’t care about your opinion, I just want to be given raw facts and data so I can form my own conclusions from them’ I’ve basically just given up. I’ve told him what I think he should so, and explained MacOS security as I understand it and told him to do what he wants
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2023 15:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 03:55 |
|
|
Buy a whiffle ball bat OP. You know what to do with it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2023 15:39
|
|
|
The Lord Bude posted:Yeah he uses windows defender on his current laptop. The issue is the fact that it visibly updates daily, whereas apple only issues security updates when they’re needed. Plus I was able to point him to comparative tests which showed that windows defender was as good as third party alternatives, whereas that’s not really a thing for Macs, because third party security software has never been a big thing. Write some sort of cron script or Automator script that pops up daily and says “Updating virus definitions…….all scans complete”. Call the script Cron Antivirus.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2023 15:47
|
|
|
The Lord Bude posted:Yeah he uses windows defender on his current laptop. The issue is the fact that it visibly updates daily, whereas apple only issues security updates when they’re needed. Plus I was able to point him to comparative tests which showed that windows defender was as good as third party alternatives, whereas that’s not really a thing for Macs, because third party security software has never been a big thing. How about this angle - Macs are more like his iPhone (or iPad), which doesn’t have any background antivirus apps constantly updating and scanning. You really don’t need AV software like you don’t need it for your iPhone, but if you do, Mac AV software isn’t updated every day because there just aren’t that many new security risks being introduced. Is AV software on Android a thing? Corb3t fucked around with this message at 15:53 on Nov 18, 2023 |
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2023 15:49
|
|
|
Corb3t posted:Any chance you can convince him that the Mac is more like his iPhone (or iPad), which doesn’t have any background antivirus apps constantly updating and scanning? Macs AV software doesn’t need to be updated every day because there just aren’t that many new security risks being introduced. This is one of the angles I’m running. AV software on android is definitely a thing, and arguably kinda necessary since google will happily let malware into their App Store, but it’s been a over a decade since either of us has had an android phone.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2023 15:54
|
|
|
MarcusSA posted:I kinda had the same fight with my dad when he made the switch but I just refused to help him figure out how to install it so that solved that problem and he gave up.  edit: Oh, I didn't realize there was another page. Silly Burrito posted:Write some sort of cron script or Automator script that pops up daily and says “Updating virus definitions…….all scans complete”. Call the script Cron Antivirus. You guys are savages, but these are awesome ideas 
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2023 17:16
|
|
|
The Lord Bude posted:Yeah he uses windows defender on his current laptop. The issue is the fact that it visibly updates daily, whereas apple only issues security updates when they’re needed. Plus I was able to point him to comparative tests which showed that windows defender was as good as third party alternatives, whereas that’s not really a thing for Macs, because third party security software has never been a big thing. Your dad is literally doing a cargo cult but for antivirus software lol
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2023 17:27
|
|
|
Someone so interested in facts should be perfectly capable of parsing them and, if not, doing their own research.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2023 19:20
|
|
|
The Lord Bude posted:This is one of the angles I’m running. AV software on android is definitely a thing, and arguably kinda necessary since google will happily let malware into their App Store, but it’s been a over a decade since either of us has had an android phone. Your reasoning for needing AV on Android (no one does this) supports his need for AV on a Mac (daddy can bypass the Mac App Store to download whatever unverified crapware he wants from a web browser). A Mac isn't like an iPhone in this regard. So maybe rethink this angle.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2023 19:23
|
|
|
Splinter posted:Your reasoning for needing AV on Android (no one does this) supports his need for AV on a Mac (daddy can bypass the Mac App Store to download whatever unverified crapware he wants from a web browser). A Mac isn't like an iPhone in this regard. So maybe rethink this angle. Ehhh… he can teach his dad to not install unsigned apps. It’s turned off by default, and telling your dad, “don’t install unsigned apps” should be a good enough an iOS-equivalent situation. It’s not like he’s some power user downloading random GitHub apps.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2023 20:43
|
|
|
Administer whiffle ball bat until point has been made OP.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2023 20:54
|
|
|
Corb3t posted:Ehhh… he can teach his dad to not install unsigned apps. It’s turned off by default, and telling your dad, “don’t install unsigned apps” should be a good enough an iOS-equivalent situation. Is he actually gonna follow that though or is he gonna want to install what he wants like on Windows? I agree that this is a non-issue but if you're gonna argue Android needs anti-virus because the user can't be trusted, then a Mac is no different.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2023 21:42
|
|
|
Splinter posted:Is he actually gonna follow that though or is he gonna want to install what he wants like on Windows? I agree that this is a non-issue but if you're gonna argue Android needs anti-virus because the user can't be trusted, then a Mac is no different. I’d argue it is different, because someone expects the official App Store to be safe, but on android back when we were using it you could pick up something nasty just by downloading apps in the store. To be clear neither of us have used android since like 2012; I’m talking historically. In any case my dad isn’t a random crap downloader, he’s super paranoid and anal. He’s definitely not going to download anything outside the store without asking me first. (That’s part of the reason why his obsession with anti virus is so frustrating).
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 03:17
|
|
|
The Lord Bude posted:I’d argue it is different, because someone expects the official App Store to be safe, but on android back when we were using it you could pick up something nasty just by downloading apps in the store. To be clear neither of us have used android since like 2012; I’m talking historically. OP, I've been hearing stories about your dad for so long i can practically picture him in my head, and to be honest he sounds rad. I hope you cherish him. That said, you and he are going about this all backwards. He's the one with the positive hypothesis, so he shouldn't be trying to make you prove the null. Make him show you strong evidence that mac antivirus is more effective than placebo before you help him install it. If that doesn't work, agree to "help" by providing him the absolute dumbest zero-effort content-free Top Ten Mac Antivirus affiliate farm clickmill listicles you can dredge up. He'll either come to the (correct) conclusion that the whole category is a scam, or he'll go mad trying to sift through that crap and lose the will to live/install useless software. Either way your problem is solved.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 04:32
|
|
|
On the subject of downloading bullshit from the internet onto your expensive computer, Black Friday week is nearly upon us. Is there any given go to site that details good stuff that’s discounted? Last year I just googled random lists but something a bit more curated would be nice.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 04:36
|
|
|
Ben's bargains or Slick deals probably.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 04:39
|
|
|
The newest MacOS update, I am a big fan of the new background, and animated version of it at the login screen it gave me, very pretty.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 04:45
|
|
|
The Lord Bude posted:I’d argue it is different, because someone expects the official App Store to be safe, but on android back when we were using it you could pick up something nasty just by downloading apps in the store. To be clear neither of us have used android since like 2012; I’m talking historically. Even back then you'd have to be downloading some sus apps for that to happen. Which if that is a legitimate concern is not something you can trust someone on a Mac with the admin password not to do.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 05:15
|
|
|
Clearly the correct approach is to ask the question: "Unlike Windows, macOS isn't so malware prone that it needs anything like daily Defender updates!" 
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 07:22
|
|
|
The Lord Bude posted:f (granted we both have iPhones and iPads). Sounds like your dad just needs a Magic Keyboard for his iPad and not a whole new computer OP
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 08:29
|
|
|
beuges posted:Sounds like your dad just needs a Magic Keyboard for his iPad and not a whole new computer OP not unless there is a 15 inch iPad I don’t know about. His number one, will not budge under any circumstances requirement for a computer is a screen of at least 15 inches. And a mouse, he won’t use a trackpad.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 08:32
|
|
|
The Lord Bude posted:not unless there is a 15 inch iPad I don’t know about. His number one, will not budge under any circumstances requirement for a computer is a screen of at least 15 inches. And a mouse, he won’t use a trackpad. https://www.bing.com/search?q=Connect+external+screen+to+iPad+in+Australia&pc=EMMX04&FORM=EMMXA2&mkt=en-za https://www.bing.com/search?q=connect+mouse+to+iPad+in+Australia&pc=EMMX04&FORM=EMMXA2&mkt=en-za
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 08:39
|
|
|
Again, I might be projecting, but: why are you jumping through all of these hoops to help someone who so obviously is not capable of accepting help outside of his arbitrary and slightly insane parameters? It's madness. Also sounds like if he ends up getting a Mac, you're going to have to deal with him griping about every little thing that's not like Windows XP or whatever his frame of reference is.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 08:40
|
|
|
The Lord Bude posted:And a mouse, he won’t use a trackpad. While you're on your no-AV crusade you may as well work on this one too, because half the point of a macbook is the trackpad and gestures are so good you don't feel like you need to mouse to be productive
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 09:45
|
|
|
Splinter posted:While you're on your no-AV crusade you may as well work on this one too, because half the point of a macbook is the trackpad and gestures are so good you don't feel like you need to mouse to be productive Don’t worry I’m on it. At the very least he’ll have the trackpad there for gesture even if he uses the mouse for mousing round his spreadsheets.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 10:11
|
|
|
The Lord Bude posted:Don’t worry I’m on it. At the very least he’ll have the trackpad there for gesture even if he uses the mouse for mousing round his spreadsheets. Now you’re just trolling. One hand on the mouse and one hand on the trackpad, but he wants AV? 
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 10:25
|
|
|
eightysixed posted:Now you’re just trolling. I said he’d have it there, not that he’d end up using it. I certainly plan on running him through key gestures, if he ends up using them or not is up to him.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 10:28
|
|
|
The Lord Bude posted:I said he’d have it there, not that he’d end up using it. I certainly plan on running him through key gestures, if he ends up using them or not is up to him. Fair enough, but I just remembered one thing. Doesn’t the official iMouse or whatever it’s called also respond to gestures or am I completely misremembering… Also, using a mouse on a laptop is silly anyway.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 10:34
|
|
|
eightysixed posted:Fair enough, but I just remembered one thing. Doesn’t the official iMouse or whatever it’s called also respond to gestures or am I completely misremembering… Oh he’s not going to buy a Magic Mouse, he’s not that crazy. He wants an actual proper mouse. There definitely are use cases where you want a mouse and not a trackpad, though I’m personally not sure spreadsheets are one of them. I use both at my Mac Studio, but I only use the mouse when I’m playing a video game. My suspicion however is that years of owning very cheap windows laptops have conditioned him into an irrational hatred of trackpads, but that once he has a Mac, a few months of occasional ‘well I’m just going to quickly do this one thing, can’t be bothered taking the mouse out of the laptop bag’ will eventually lead to him rarely using the mouse. I observed the same behavior in my Aunt (his sister) when she made the switch back in 2017. She was hell bent on buying a mouse to go with the MacBook, and 6 months later it had basically disappeared into an office drawer somewhere never to be seen again. Now of course there is also a chance we could be having the same chat in the thread a year from now. It’s only been a few months since he initially decided he wanted to buy a Mac - when he announced he was going to buy a new car it took literally 3 years for him to make a decision and buy something. 3 years of him basically spending his spare time ‘doing car research’ and bemoaning to me that ‘he desperately needs to buy a new car’ but he ‘couldn’t find anything that met all his criteria’. A few months is a short turn around time for him.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 10:45
|
|
|
Buy him an account
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 15:05
|
|
|
FCKGW posted:Buy him an account I’ve tried a couple of times over the years to no avail.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 15:06
|
|
|
Point out that antivirus software is often itself basically spyware. Back in the early days of Windows Defender, it used to run silently like the Mac equivalent does, and the reason it now randomly pops up to let you know it hasn't found anything is precisely because people didn't believe it was doing something and kept disabling it and installing lovely third party replacements. Apple'll never do that, but it does feel like they should at least surface that data somewhere buried deep in the settings app.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 15:32
|
|
|
I'm still using 1Password 7 cause I've been putting off the upgrade. Should I upgrade to 1Password 8? What's the proper way to do the upgrade with v8 being outside of the App Store? Do I delete v7 first? e: I use whatever version of 1password is on the iOS app stores for my phone and iPad.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 16:14
|
|
|
8 is a separate app iirc so all would would need to do is download it and everything should “just work”.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 16:21
|
|
|
I had no idea there was an 8. I’m going to stick with the “if it’s not broken, don’t fix it” mentality. Plus I have shared vaults for certain business purposes. I wonder if the whole team would have to upgrade if I did.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2023 01:47
|
|
|
7 is the last one that supports local vaults without subscription aiui, which is why I’m on it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2023 02:04
|
|
|
We appear to have moved past the anti virus issue! However, now we have other interesting questions to address: 1. My dad has rather large collection of archived emails. His current habit is to move emails he wants to keep into local storage folders in outlook. However, he is interested in just using mail when he buys his Mac. How would he go about moving this collection of archived emails, and does mail let you set up local folders to store emails on your device. 2. What are his options for backing up his Mac that don’t involve iCloud?
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2023 04:13
|
|
|
Buy pops a NAS. Synology has Time Machine integration so that's all transparent though you are using Time Machine. Take his old .PST files, put them on the NAS, wait a week, delete the loving .PST files.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2023 04:31
|
|
|
The Lord Bude posted:1. My dad has rather large collection of archived emails. His current habit is to move emails he wants to keep into local storage folders in outlook. Mail for MacOS cannot accept psts, but you can get an outlook for mac trial which can accept the psts and export to .mbox and yes you can have local folders for email storage. I think you know this but please do not delete your fathers email archives, i am an example of someone who has an extensive email archive due to using it for a lot of personal correspondence. it would negatively affect current workflows for me to lose my local email archives even from 10+ years ago.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2023 04:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 03:55 |
|
|
Set yourself free from the tyranny of the PST OP. Become ungovernable.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2023 04:53
|
|