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Confusedslight posted:Is the davros series that big finish did a while ago worth checking out? I think it takes place before he become the davros in genesis. Yes, absolutely, but as Open Source Idiom pointed out, you'll also need the Sixth Doctor Audio "Davros" as well, as there's flashbacks in there that flesh out "I, Davros: Corruption". Thankfully, BF is having a Davros sale for the next two days, so you can get downloads for the complete "I, Davros" miniseries (also included, "The Davros Mission", an original audio first released on a UK DVD Davros boxset), and "Davros" for under about 15 bucks total. That's over seven hours of Davros goodness! https://www.bigfinish.com/search_results?search_value_selected=0&search_term=davros
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Nov 18, 2023 16:44
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Confusedslight posted:Is the davros series that big finish did a while ago worth checking out? I think it takes place before he become the davros in genesis. Absolutely. I, Davros is fantastic. Open Source Idiom posted:It's very good, though you probably want to check out Davros (the play) as well since there's a lot of interconnectivity. And that's also an amazing one. I think if you heard one of them without the other you wouldn't be lost, but they play off each other well.
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Nov 18, 2023 16:51
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Matinee posted:Its limitations can become very apparent and distracting if it’s over-used (Mandalorian is very guilty of this), but it’s a really great tool when used thoughtfully - the recent The Batman movie used it to great effect. Yes, Star Trek: Strange New Worlds uses it for the engine room set, and it’s great for conveying a sense of ‘this is an incredibly large room’.
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Nov 18, 2023 16:52
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Narsham posted:The Mutants does an explicit “ugly is violent and beauty is a higher-order of being” trope. The point of the story must have gone wooshing over your head like a jet fighter, if that's your take on it. The Mutants is a pretty direct satire on colonialism in general, and the British style of colonialism in particular, where people of the colonized areas (in this case, a planet) are treated as subhuman or lesser beings to the colonists. The colonists are even called "Overlords", for goodness' sake! The titular "mutants" are revealed as being a midway point to the natives of the planet ascending to a higher being like caterpillars changing into butterflies, but because the cycle of mutation takes so long, it has been forgotten in their own histories; and the Marshal and other colonizing forces already regarded the natives as lesser beings, so when they start changing into what looks like giant bugs to them, they have even less hesitation about murdering them outright than they already did before. At no point do any of the main good characters act like the titular "mutants" are evil or monstrous (except maybe Jo screams when she first sees one, it's been a while since I watched it); it's all the evil assholes like the Marshal (representing the colonial forces) or Varan (who's an example of colonized natives who try to ingratiate themselves with their oppressors). And IIRC, the "mutants" don't actually do anything violent or take action against anyone, not even their oppressors. It couldn't be any less about "ugly is violent" if it tried. Unless someone was to say "well the Marshal is kind of porky, so clearly fat people are mean and violent", but that'd be an even stranger takeaway from that story.
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Nov 18, 2023 16:53
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Confusedslight posted:Is the davros series that big finish did a while ago worth checking out? I think it takes place before he become the davros in genesis. "I, Davros" is probably my favorite thing Big Finish has put out. It's good as gently caress.
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Nov 18, 2023 17:01
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Narsham posted:How many disabled performers have played disabled villains previously in Doctor Who? Is it zero? Sil, arguably. Played by disabled actor Nabil Shaban, carried everywhere by his two black muscular slaves (Sil, not Shaban*). *I presume, I don’t know his private life.
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Nov 18, 2023 17:02
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I wasn't sure whether or not to bring up Sil, but casting little people as aliens or fantasy creatures in heavy makeup, instead of just little people, is its own whole big thing. Guys like Warwick Davis certainly make bank off of it, but it was also nice when they cast him as just A Guy in that one Cyberman episode, even if it the episode wasn't very good.
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Nov 18, 2023 18:01
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There was that one 12 episode where they cast the little woman as a scientist and it had no bearing on the story, and virtually no bearing on any shot other than seeing her use step stools and stuff as she went about her business. I don't remember it even being mentioned by other characters. The story wasn't about her being small. I've never seen any other film or tv episode that casted and used a small person like that.
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Nov 18, 2023 18:10
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Both Good Omens and Loki have used Liz Carr without calling any attention to it.
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Nov 18, 2023 18:15
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Rachel Denning, from Pyramid At The End Of The World, was also just in Wheel Of Time in a similar casual casting.The_Doctor posted:Both Good Omens and Loki have used Liz Carr without calling any attention to it. I wonder if this is something Carr asks for out of her roles. I can't remember any role of hers drawing attention to her disability, not The Witcher or DEVS or The OA, or even the odd episode of Silent Witness I've caught her in. (And that show loves mining it's regulars for random melodrama so I'd totally believe they'd go there, which is equally fair enough if you think about it.)
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Nov 18, 2023 18:20
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Narsham posted:Perhaps 19 episodes out of 65? That seems to me like a lot. How many heroic characters in Who have had disabilities or specifically been in wheelchairs?
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Nov 18, 2023 18:22
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The story I always feel most uncomfortable about, in terms of disability, is Black Orchid.
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Nov 18, 2023 18:23
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Open Source Idiom posted:The story I always feel most uncomfortable about, in terms of disability, is Black Orchid. Black Orchid somehow manages to compete with Talons of Weng-Chiang in terms of "blandly repeating the bigoted bits of old-timey genre fiction whilst entirely failing to criticise them", because you have the disability stuff and a big fat dose of racism all tied up with that too. I think Talons is worse, but only because over six episodes it can take it further. Six episodes of Black Orchid exploring the territory that Black Orchid did would be utterly miserable.
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Nov 18, 2023 18:26
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Rochallor posted:If you cast, say, 2006 walking about Idris Elba as Lumic instead of the Harry Potter guy Surely you mean Trigger? 
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Nov 18, 2023 18:35
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TinTower posted:Surely you mean Trigger? Americans don’t know. 
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Nov 18, 2023 18:36
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In terms of "disfigurement = evil", there's a bit from Malcolm Hulke's novelization of Invasion of the Dinosaurs, where Sarah Jane is being locked up by a bad guy with a big scar on his face, and she cruelly mocks him, asking if he got it in a knife fight or something; and he quietly replies that no, he used to be a firefighter and got it when he had to climb through a broken glass window to rescue a child from a burning house. I always thought that it was a shame that never made it on TV in the original episode, as it would've been a pretty good lesson for kids to not judge people by appearances. Speaking of, there is of course Galaxy 4 from the First Doctor's era, where the monstrous-looking beings are actually kind and helpful, while the "normal" beautiful beings are ruthless and willing to kill everyone else to save themselves.
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Nov 18, 2023 18:37
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Rochallor posted:I wasn't sure whether or not to bring up Sil, but casting little people as aliens or fantasy creatures in heavy makeup, instead of just little people, is its own whole big thing. Guys like Warwick Davis certainly make bank off of it, but it was also nice when they cast him as just A Guy in that one Cyberman episode, even if it the episode wasn't very good. Shaban has mentioned in interviews that his agent originally rejected the role for him, feeling that it was just "a monster" part, but when Shaban read the script himself, he saw the richness of the character and told his agent to get him that part, since he wouldn't ever be offered to play a character like that. And when we did see another member of Sil's species, he was played a "normal" height (albeit shorter than average) Christopher Ryan.
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Nov 18, 2023 18:53
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Davros1 posted:And when we did see another member of Sil's species, he was played a "normal" height (albeit shorter than average) Christopher Ryan.
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Nov 18, 2023 19:23
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Davros1 posted:Shaban has mentioned in interviews that his agent originally rejected the role for him, feeling that it was just "a monster" part, but when Shaban read the script himself, he saw the richness of the character and told his agent to get him that part, since he wouldn't ever be offered to play a character like that. Sil was a legit great villain and it's a shame they haven't brought him back in some form with the new series.
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Nov 18, 2023 19:47
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Random Stranger posted:Sil was a legit great villain and it's a shame they haven't brought him back in some form with the new series. There’s a fan production, maybe you can borrow Jeremy’s copy? 
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Nov 18, 2023 20:06
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Random Stranger posted:Sil was a legit great villain and it's a shame they haven't brought him back in some form with the new series. They should have brought him back, if only to spare us from this 
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Nov 18, 2023 20:06
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Sydney Bottocks posted:In terms of "disfigurement = evil", there's a bit from Malcolm Hulke's novelization of Invasion of the Dinosaurs, where Sarah Jane is being locked up by a bad guy with a big scar on his face, and she cruelly mocks him, asking if he got it in a knife fight or something; and he quietly replies that no, he used to be a firefighter and got it when he had to climb through a broken glass window to rescue a child from a burning house. I always thought that it was a shame that never made it on TV in the original episode, as it would've been a pretty good lesson for kids to not judge people by appearances. It's always neat when you get little bits of backstory or hints of dissension within the ranks of henchmen or between competing bad guys. Davros1 posted:Shaban has mentioned in interviews that his agent originally rejected the role for him, feeling that it was just "a monster" part, but when Shaban read the script himself, he saw the richness of the character and told his agent to get him that part, since he wouldn't ever be offered to play a character like that. I did not know that, that's really cool. This conversation brings to mind Lawrence Miles trying to make the Ogrons less problematic in Interference (I think the design is just a bridge too far, but he gives it his best shot). He has K-9 tell Sarah Jane that he's picking up additional subsonic frequencies in the Ogrons' speech that don't get heard by human ears so they just sound like cavemen, and there's this bit that I do quite of an Ogron being quite cool (his name is Lost Boy): quote:Lost Boy didn’t understand any of this. So he just grunted. ‘Don’t want girl. Want woman.’
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Nov 18, 2023 20:47
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Someone should’ve given Jezza the Zygon porno.
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Nov 18, 2023 20:51
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So this is not really relevant to the conversation re:disability but I have to say watching that and learning that this is Davros' new look has me pretty loving stoked. There is a certain kind of older British character who seem to really relish these very broad hammy villain performances and to be honest that has always been my favorite bit of Davros. Regardless of era they always give some big juicy goofy monologue and then allow some actor to deliver it while swallowing a whole glazed ham live on tv and it's the loving best. But honestly watching this dude ham it up and mug the camera walk around with his neck jutted forward like a vulture I was kind of like, "I can't believe they have been wasting this dude covering his face with all that makeup." Sam Sanskrit fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Nov 18, 2023 |
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Nov 18, 2023 23:12
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It’s treading sliiiightly into Grand Moff Tarkin, but I’m ok with that.
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Nov 18, 2023 23:30
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The_Doctor posted:It’s treading sliiiightly into Grand Moff Tarkin, but I’m ok with that. It's like the exact crossroads between Gran Moff Tarkin's voice and Anton Ego's body but a real dude some how.
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Nov 18, 2023 23:50
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Yeah, Julian Bleach rules and getting to see "young" Davros is pretty drat neat.
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Nov 19, 2023 00:43
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I'm getting excited for RTD Who and I'm scared...  (  I can't wait!)
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Nov 19, 2023 01:09
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The_Doctor posted:Sil, arguably. Played by disabled actor Nabil Shaban, carried everywhere by his two black muscular slaves (Sil, not Shaban*). Discussed down-thread: the question is whether the alien he played is supposed to be “normal” for his species. Probably Sil isn’t in the category of “disabled = evil” but I finessed the question by stopping with Four. It also saved me from having to post a rant about Black Orchid. I’d think at more length about the new series, but at some point that means considering Love & Monsters in terms of disability and disfigurement and I don’t wanna.
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Nov 19, 2023 01:49
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If nothing else RTD has come out of the gates swinging and provoking discussions (and reactionaries), and that loving owns I am beginning to suspect I see what he means by calling this season 1 and it being a reboot. It's 2023, it's post-Brexit, the failures of our antediluvian governmental system and social order threw up a rollicking bollocking bullingdon fuckwit to be in charge just in time to make sure the nation was ravaged by covid, Suella Braverman was Actually In Government, no one has any money anymore, nothing works anymore, and no one with any power, anywhere, is offering any solutions. Transphobia Island is going to hell in a hand basket and no-one is willing to talk about it. In 2005 Rusty brought back Who and brought it up to the standards of the time. Blair's Britain, Pre-Crash Britain, when it still felt like there could be some entente with The Way Things Are Done while being progressive. Change for the better, but keep the old silverware. The Doctor's still a white guy, but now he's at least northern! That time is over. It collapsed in catastrophe. The Old Ways have hosed us. Failed us utterly. Burn it all down. Year Zero Doctor Who. Gen Zoomer Doctor Who. Ncuti Gatwa Doctor Who. Trans Rights Doctor Who. Disabled Rights Doctor Who. That's what it is to stay true to the real 'canon' of the show, which is its ethos. Learn. Regenerate. Change.
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Nov 19, 2023 12:23
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God I hope so. Lead the kids into compassion and empathy and doing the right thing 
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Nov 19, 2023 12:33
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If this is the New Cartmel Era, I am up for the New Cartmel Era. In terms of upsetting the right people, Ian Levine is up in arms about the Davros thing. Which is ironic because the Davros sketch probably did more for charity than a certain novelty Doctor Who-connected song Ian was responsible for...
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Nov 19, 2023 14:29
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I am infinitely more respectful of people discussing this sketch on the grounds of accessibility and representation and whether or not it's good or bad to have Davros be in a wheelchair than I am for the nerds yelling in outrage because RTD dared to change some made-up bullshit about an alien fascist from 50 years ago and now their precious VHS tape of Genesis that they watched when they were 10 isn't canon any more!!! (and that's pretty much directed at angry Twitter nerds, y'all in here are good)
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Nov 19, 2023 14:34
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I just don't see how 'canon' even works in Dr. Who. They're constantly changing history, everything's canon, even the contradictory poo poo.
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Nov 19, 2023 15:37
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egon_beeblebrox posted:I just don't see how 'canon' even works in Dr. Who. Very well! Edit: I love that 11 story where the one guy starts complaining about time travel being impossible and starts with,"The paradoxes-", and 11 just cuts him off with,"-tend to work themselves out!"
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Nov 19, 2023 15:58
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FreezingInferno posted:I am infinitely more respectful of people discussing this sketch on the grounds of accessibility and representation and whether or not it's good or bad to have Davros be in a wheelchair than I am for the nerds yelling in outrage because RTD dared to change some made-up bullshit about an alien fascist from 50 years ago and now their precious VHS tape of Genesis that they watched when they were 10 isn't canon any more!!! Davros, with access to time travel, opts not to save himself from a lab accident for “reasons.” Genesis Davros didn’t think aliens existed, anywhere in the universe. And he died near the end of the story, at least until Nation brought him back in a retcon in Destiny of the Daleks (where he was found in a different location than where the dalek shot him). His entire story has been a constant revision of what’s canon.
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Nov 19, 2023 15:59
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The mistake is thinking of the doctors by their number. There is no “Tenth Doctor”, there is no “Second Doctor” etc, they all exist in some eternal quantum present, but our puny human minds can’t perceive time and causality that way. *exhales, puts down bong* I actually wonder if RTD is going to make moves in that direction, what with the line about canons being re-written, bringing “non-canon” characters from the old marvel comics like beep the meep into the show, even the “Season One” stuff. E: I don’t think “Whoniverse” is just a branding exercise, put it that way. Matinee fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Nov 19, 2023 |
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Nov 19, 2023 16:01
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I just wish Troughton could come back as a Nth Doctor for 3-5 specials too.
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Nov 19, 2023 16:05
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Matinee posted:The mistake is thinking of the doctors by their number. In some ways if the revelations of the Timeless Child meant anything they're an excuse to have infinite doctors in infinite order, I suppose.
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Nov 19, 2023 16:38
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lines posted:In some ways if the revelations of the Timeless Child meant anything they're an excuse to have infinite doctors in infinite order, I suppose. drat, that actually really scans and lines up.
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Nov 19, 2023 16:51
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