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You could easily say Stormtroopers are clones of various people, because why would they only duplicate Jangoes for thirty years - but that's not the Stormtroopers' narrative function in the Luke films. It's thematically important that they're just average guys like Han and Luke.
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Nov 18, 2023 17:04
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Colonel Cool posted:I've never even considered that the OT stormtroopers were retroactively declared to be clones. Same
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Nov 18, 2023 17:11
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Bespoke clones of one specific person being replaced by general issue Joes in masks fits in with the setting's transition between the prequels and the original series: the polished and ornamental being replaced by the practical and utilitarian.
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Nov 18, 2023 17:16
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:You could easily say Stormtroopers are clones of various people, because why would they only duplicate Jangoes for thirty years - but that's not the Stormtroopers' narrative function in the Luke films. It's thematically important that they're just average guys like Han and Luke. meaning it's entirely probable there are several stormtroopers who are force sensitive. lmao what a waste of Finn.
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Nov 18, 2023 17:55
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Ammanas posted:meaning it's entirely probable there are several stormtroopers who are force sensitive. lmao what a waste of Finn. Finn basically had his entire arc right in front of him from the start when he took off that helmet in the trailer, that they threw away out of contrarianism, racism and idiocy. Stormtrooper to Jedi, how do you gently caress that up?
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Nov 18, 2023 18:11
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He's still force sensitive, just in that wistfully gazing off into the distance and "knowing" things way, not the fun telekinesis or lightning bolts way
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Nov 18, 2023 21:02
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Glottis posted:He's still force sensitive, just in that wistfully gazing off into the distance and "knowing" things way, not the fun telekinesis or lightning bolts way Also not in the "gets to do more than Han Solo in Return of the Jedi" way
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Nov 18, 2023 21:21
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It really is crazy how good Boyega is in TFA and how totally wasted he was afterwards, it may be the most unforgivable sin in a trilogy filled with them
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Nov 18, 2023 22:09
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Glottis posted:He's still force sensitive, just in that wistfully gazing off into the distance and "knowing" things way, not the fun telekinesis or lightning bolts way People used to think that being "force sensitive" was just short hand for being an important character, but boy were they ever wrong.
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Nov 18, 2023 22:36
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Schwarzwald posted:People used to think that being "force sensitive" was just short hand for being an important character, but boy were they ever wrong. They are still kind of right. It's just that "being an important character" also demands other features, such as "being white, or a sexy alien"
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Nov 19, 2023 00:03
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Glottis posted:He's still force sensitive, just in that wistfully gazing off into the distance and "knowing" things way, not the fun telekinesis or lightning bolts way Using the force to yell "REY!!!" louder than humanly possible
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Nov 19, 2023 00:33
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Wolfsheim posted:It really is crazy how good Boyega is in TFA and how totally wasted he was afterwards, it may be the most unforgivable sin in a trilogy filled with them He’s good in TLJ too
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Nov 19, 2023 01:09
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That cast is incredible and they do nothing with it. They had Domnhall Gleeson take phone calls and Max Von Sydow do one scene. Wasted series.
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Nov 19, 2023 01:16
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I think it shoulda been writing on the wall when Finn gets his own goddamn Metal Gear grudge match boss fight and it ends with a joke. They were always going to waste him.
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Nov 19, 2023 04:10
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QCPahxsycI
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Nov 19, 2023 08:57
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I think it shoulda been writing on the wall when Finn gets his own goddamn Metal Gear grudge match boss fight and it ends with a joke. They were always going to waste him. In the alternate universe where the movie was tying itself to Trevorrow's IX they weren't https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzeIb-TZo_I We live in the worst timeline.
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Nov 19, 2023 12:29
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well why not posted:That cast is incredible and they do nothing with it. They had Domnhall Gleeson take phone calls and Max Von Sydow do one scene. Wasted series. Solo was also a waste of a really good cast for that matter
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Nov 19, 2023 18:57
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Where did Disney Star Wars go so wrong? It's clearly not budget or cast.
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Nov 19, 2023 19:24
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The clones are both replicants and average joes, like the robot policemen from THX.
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Nov 19, 2023 19:25
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It was the moment they decided, "We want to redo the OT."
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Nov 19, 2023 19:26
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That still feels a little off to me. I mean I feel like a theoretical ST that follows the OT even more closely, while probably extremely basic and of little actual merit, would have still been better liked overall. I guess maybe the problem is that where they did try to graft new things onto the fundamental soft reboot the OT skeleton, they were generally nonsense and bad
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Nov 19, 2023 19:55
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Fundamentally the sequel trilogy just had mediocre writing. They didn't care about the plot and they didn't have anything to say and it showed. The committee of suits only understands art on a superficial level. JJ Abrams is perfect for them; he is a competent director but the last time he gave a poo poo about the plot was like...Alias. Although it was viewed as popular culture pap by many critics, even those who liked it, Lucas Star Wars was ultimately an auteur product. The closest thing we have going today is probably Avatar. (The one with blue people.)
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Nov 19, 2023 20:21
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:Fundamentally the sequel trilogy just had mediocre writing. They didn't care about the plot and they didn't have anything to say and it showed. The committee of suits only understands art on a superficial level. JJ Abrams is perfect for them; he is a competent director but the last time he gave a poo poo about the plot was like...Alias. Yeah Disney in general has had this problem a lot recently with their Marvel stuff as well. Secret Invasion probably being the pinnacle; people were expecting it to be the Andor of the MCU and instead they got.. idk Kenobi
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Nov 19, 2023 20:58
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Star Wars's dirty little secret is that it's not that engaging of a setting in itself: its aliens are bland, it's too beholden to the Jedi vs Sith stuff, etc. Side fictions have occasionally raised to the level of enjoyable sci-fi but often feel encumbered by the franchise around them. What was interesting about the Lucas movies was that they presented a coherent artistic vision with a closed story (hence "they died"). If you wanted to expand on this stuff you need something new to say and Disney can't do that, they're here for Content, and when they acquired Star Wars it was to have the right to all the classic stuff. Telling new stories is secondary and even counterproductive.
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Nov 19, 2023 21:09
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Colonel Cool posted:Where did Disney Star Wars go so wrong? It's clearly not budget or cast. When they decided to make a trilogy without an idea for what the whole trilogy was, and without even making sure the same team was working on all three parts of the trilogy. All the problems in the sequels come down to competing visions and pissing contests between teams and movies. All the problems in the shows come down to fear of having anything tie into the sequels, and thus needing to over explore and over explain the time period before the sequels.
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Nov 19, 2023 21:17
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YaketySass posted:Star Wars's dirty little secret is that it's not that engaging of a setting in itself: its aliens are bland, it's too beholden to the Jedi vs Sith stuff, etc. Side fictions have occasionally raised to the level of enjoyable sci-fi but often feel encumbered by the franchise around them. it's what makes the expanded universe so fascinating: the scaffolding that supports it so so nonfunctional that it's just piles and piles of incoherent horseshit that you can sometimes find a crumb of good storytelling in when a legitimately talented writer decides to take a shot
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Nov 19, 2023 21:42
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Colonel Cool posted:Where did Disney Star Wars go so wrong? It's clearly not budget or cast. lovely writing and whiteboard meetings about how to make starwars mean everything to everyone over actual good storytelling
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Nov 19, 2023 21:53
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It was rushed but I’d rather watch TLJ than any dave filoni cartoon
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Nov 19, 2023 22:38
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Nov 19, 2023 23:23
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Everyone involved had the highest Care Levels possible - but that simply won't ever save you from bad storytelling!
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Nov 19, 2023 23:24
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Was there actually a lot of corporate board room meddling with the ST? I haven't looked into it myself, but I know someone who's much more interested in that side of things who at least claims that Disney largely let JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson do their own thing with the movies. Outside of a few tweaks to do things like make them more China friendly, anyway.
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Nov 19, 2023 23:37
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JJ in JJ's account seemed to mostly get his way with the exception of the release dates, which led to his movies having highly rushed productions. Rian has pretty much always maintained he 100% made the movie he wanted to make. The question has always been if you think they're just playing nice or not
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Nov 19, 2023 23:54
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The Force Awakens was kind of allowed to evolve on its own, starting with Lucas' outlines and then deviating from there. Then in 2014 (when the movie was filming, so more or less set in stone) a bunch of Lucasfilm execs had a meeting to brainstorm ideas for the trilogy. That's where ideas like "Leia redeems Kylo" and "Rey gets adopted by the Skywalkers" were decided on for the overall narrative. Rian Johnson seemed to have a lot of freedom with his movie, and since it was the middle movie, the high level endgame stuff that Lucasfilm wanted didn't really affect him. The idea to feture Palpatine might also have been an executive decision. Colin Trevorrow's script includes Palpatine in a way that really seems like Trevorrow thinks it's a stupid idea and explicitly says the Darth Plagueis stuff is bullshit. There also would have been a lot of discussions about what to do with Leia after Carrie Fisher's death, and it seems really likely that the Lucasfilm execs were involved in those discussions.
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Nov 20, 2023 00:03
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Johnson just had a short time to do it since they all had to basically make these movies at the same time so they can assembly line them every other year.
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Nov 20, 2023 00:20
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Absolutely incompetent management is pretty key to a lot of Disney Star Wars failings; overmanaging poo poo that doesn't matter and neglecting the stuff that does, letting JJ 'Mystery Box' Abrams start your trilogy with no idea how it's going to end, and then the repeated last-minute panic and cutting room massacres most obvious with Rogue One and TRoS. And the repeated pattern of the TV shows being allowed to be good until they get too successful, then the c-suite who are done ruining the movies descend on them to 'help'.CelticPredator posted:It was rushed but I’d rather watch TLJ than any dave filoni cartoon You're a normie, we get it.
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Nov 20, 2023 03:17
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that’s a normie opinion?
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Nov 20, 2023 03:40
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CelticPredator posted:Johnson just had a short time to do it since they all had to basically make these movies at the same time so they can assembly line them every other year. Because he was the only person on the Disney Star Wars movies who wasn't replaced partway through (or was brought in to replace someone else), he actually had the most time out of any of the other filmmakers to work on his movie.
Compared to all those other guys, Johnson being able to spend nearly 3 years with his movie (2014 - 2017) seems relatively leisurely.
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Nov 20, 2023 04:20
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CelticPredator posted:that’s a normie opinion? Yeah, most star wars adjacent but not super fan people seem to hate the cartoons and say they're for kids and that they'd never watch it.
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Nov 20, 2023 04:36
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I don't like the thought of kids watching Star Wars!
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Nov 20, 2023 04:46
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KittyEmpress posted:Yeah, most star wars adjacent but not super fan people seem to hate the cartoons and say they're for kids and that they'd never watch it. I just don’t like the way filoni does his stories. Just doesn’t interest me. Idgaf about if it’s for kids or not. Ashoka stank and to me it’s the worst Star Wars piece of media ever released. Just completely devoid of any joy
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Nov 20, 2023 04:49
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