|
I wonder if any listed Western military capability is pure paper power. Like its being counted that country has X when they've only ordered X and delivery is so far away it might as well be prophecy (like Australian subs). Like I couldn't figure out when the US said it planned to double the capacity of Israel's iron dome whether that meant they had it in boxes ready to ship out or that eventually one day they, or their children, would produce equipment that would probably double it.
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 01:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 08:51 |
|
|
Regarde Aduck posted:yeah there's some real weird messaging going on Pretty sure they turned off the line before the war. Don't they have another cat in pre-production?
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 01:48
|
|
|
genericnick posted:Can you even still buy Leopards? I thought Rheinmetall turned off the line where they built the chassis? As of 2022, they did not make Leopards. Greece still makes them, but Germany does not. They do *sell* them, though. Delivery date is vibes-based. If you buy a Leopard 2A8, it doesn't get made new, they get an old Leopard, and refurbish it and put the new bits on it. But that's dependent on them getting their hand on the old Leopard. Which will probably be a lot harder today than it was recently. As of 2022, there were reports that Rheinmetall were asking some museums to give them back Leopards so they can refurbish them and sell them as new. It's possible that they started production again since then and I just missed it, but I definitely didn't see any articles about it happening. genericnick posted:Pretty sure they turned off the line before the war. Don't they have another cat in pre-production? They don't. It's pure sales material\expo bait, like a lot of stuff is. They're not going to be producing it until someone buys it. They're not going to finish development until someone buys it. It's basically a pitch, at this point. It's extremely unlikely that anyone will buy it, because the Bundeswehr has decided on a list of requirements for future tanks, and the Panther does not fulfill them. The Budeswehr plan is amazing in itself. They decided that a tank has to weigh around 50 tons, but have a lot more capabilities than current tanks do. They also concluded this is impossible, but they won't budge on any aspect of this. So they came up with the best (for profit motive) solution possible: every tank will be replaced by a platoon of 4 tanks, that have different elements of the capabilities they want. So, some will have a big gun, some will have a small gun, some will have missiles, and so on. Also, they'll be partially AI, because you need fewer crew people, you can't just quadruple manpower requirements. At no point did anyone seem to think about where the gently caress will you put them, in physical terrain. If your single tank is now a platoon of 4, I guess your platoon is now 20. Where do they go?. What if you face an enemy platoon? What if you face an enemy division? It's such a perfect example of thinking by powerpoint. Zeppelin Insanity has issued a correction as of 02:01 on Nov 19, 2023 |
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 01:53
|
|
|
FuzzySlippers posted:I can see why the MIC has no enthusiasm for artillery. Why go through all the tedious effort to setup artillery and blast away with $500 artillery shells when you can bury your opponents in money via easy peasy $2 million dollar cruise missiles? The found a place in the middle with $125,000 'smart' shells, that were supposed to be more efficient due to their accuracy. Instead of saturating an area with 250 shells just fire one! That will have the same effect, at least according to the MIC
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 02:11
|
|
|
Nix Panicus posted:The found a place in the middle with $125,000 'smart' shells, that were supposed to be more efficient due to their accuracy. Instead of saturating an area with 250 shells just fire one! That will have the same effect, at least according to the MIC xi to bidet, politely: what if i told you i have more drones then you have dumb munitions
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 02:18
|
|
|
Shouldn't you keep your heavy tank production active, so your engineering know-how can stay alive and be passed down to the younger engineers (inside the country)?
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 02:40
|
|
|
stephenthinkpad posted:Shouldn't you keep your heavy tank production active, so your engineering know-how can stay alive and be passed down to the younger engineers (inside the country)? This applies to a lot of industrial production, but keeping "excess" production lines active for the sake of retaining institutional knowledge isn't profitable Even absolutist Russia dealt with this better than neoliberal capitalism does
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 02:42
|
|
|
stephenthinkpad posted:Shouldn't you keep your heavy tank production active, so your engineering know-how can stay alive and be passed down to the younger engineers (inside the country)? If you gently caress up the first run of the new tank because your engineers couldn't read the handwriting of Klaus the last guy to build a tank who retired twenty years ago you can just bill the government for the fixes you have to do. It's fine.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 02:45
|
|
|
When your MIC optimizes for billable hours lol.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 03:29
|
|
|
stephenthinkpad posted:Shouldn't you keep your heavy tank production active, so your engineering know-how can stay alive and be passed down to the younger engineers (inside the country)? Imagine two choices: 1. You sell tanks, and you make them. You make a lot of money, but you need factory space, materials, labour, machines. All that costs a lot of money. 2. You sell tanks, but you don't make them. You get the same amount of revenue, but now you don't have the costs of actually making them. You also got to sell the factory space and machines. Which is more efficient by capitalist standards? In the US, General Dynamics actually did the opposite some years back. The US military said "we don't want any more Abrams. We are not going to buy any more. Stop making them." and General Dynamics said "No. We will keep making them and you will keep buying them." And the military said "OK". Germans are just more efficient at industry, because they said "We won't make them but you'll keep buying them"
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 03:43
|
|
|
vehicles are dumb just make the soldiers very fast and bomb resistant on their own and unite the clans of MIC and guerilla fighting
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 04:06
|
|
|
Real hurthling! posted:vehicles are dumb just make the soldiers very fast and bomb resistant on their own and unite the clans of MIC and guerilla fighting fps without vehicles are always better pvp.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 04:17
|
|
|
it'd solve the IDF issue where everyone camps at the base waiting for vehicles to spawn.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 04:25
|
|
|
Real hurthling! posted:vehicles are dumb just make the soldiers very fast and bomb resistant on their own and unite the clans 
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 05:15
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:This applies to a lot of industrial production, but keeping "excess" production lines active for the sake of retaining institutional knowledge isn't profitable reinventing FOGBANK every 20 years
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 06:08
|
|
|
FuzzySlippers posted:I can see why the MIC has no enthusiasm for artillery. Why go through all the tedious effort to setup artillery and blast away with $500 artillery shells when you can bury your opponents in money via easy peasy $2 million dollar cruise missiles? Ending life is expensive, in the occident.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 10:26
|
|
|
Zeppelin Insanity posted:As of 2022, they did not make Leopards. Greece still makes them, but Germany does not. This is the most German solution imaginable. The whole country has a furious hatred of standardization and gets ragingly hard/wet at the thought of massively complicating a logistics tail.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 10:29
|
|
|
Zeppelin Insanity posted:
LMAO, ist that a von der Leyen special?
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 10:33
|
|
|
they invented the mechwarrior/armored core lance
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 10:35
|
|
|
some tanks have a big gun some tanks carry missiles on the flanks sone tanks have a smaller one some tanks are just for making bank
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 14:52
|
|
|
but all tanks are beautiful!
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 17:42
|
|
|
Orange Devil posted:This is the most German solution imaginable. The whole country has a furious hatred of standardization and gets ragingly hard/wet at the thought of massively complicating a logistics tail. what if "F-35 is invincible as long as we don't use it to fight" except not even building a single one
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 17:46
|
|
|
Zeppelin Insanity posted:As of 2022, they did not make Leopards. Greece still makes them, but Germany does not. Lmfao
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 17:47
|
|
|
They'll just treat those 4 tanks as 4 tanks instead of 1 tank, ez.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 18:11
|
|
|
Lostconfused posted:They'll just treat those 4 tanks as 4 tanks instead of 1 tank, ez. Winner winner, chicken dinner.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 21:05
|
|
|
The soldats will love the multiplatform concept when a company of German future tanks face a company of T-72s and it turns out only 1/4 of German tanks have a cannon capable of penetrating them
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 22:02
|
|
|
They will just have even less tanks with less capabilities, that seems to be the profit sweet spot.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 22:18
|
|
|
I'd pay good money to have one of the OG imperialists from the 18th or 19th century react to having army equipment that only exists in a spreadsheet because it's more efficient* that way *at making shareholder number go up
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 23:02
|
|
|
Orange Devil posted:I'd pay good money to have one of the OG imperialists from the 18th or 19th century react to having army equipment that only exists in a spreadsheet because it's more efficient* that way Idk, but Capital 3 has parts about a large scale scam after the UK broke open the Chinese market where traders would end up selling textiles at a loss, but everyone got rich (for a time) on the letters of credit everyone was handing out based on the expected returns. I think they'd give it a thumps up.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 23:14
|
|
|
What if we just Wag The Dog the war and everyone pretends we had a massive force, but we give all our money to the MIC to spend on hookers and blow? Just use War Thunder or Arma or something if the stupid public asks for proof.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 23:27
|
|
|
The producers but with ww3
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 23:32
|
|
|
Slavvy posted:The producers but with ww3 Netanyahu in Hitler 2: Arab Spring Time In the Levant.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2023 23:37
|
|
|
Gonna start making big waves among the thinktank crowd with my Air Force In Being concept. It's important you build the best air force you can but absolutely do not use it. Planes getting shot down by nasty SAMs only dilute the political impact of your air force. Then I'll move on to the Transcendent Air Force In Concept where the most perfect air force is one that doesn't fight, can't be destroyed, and can't be measured accurately. Actually building the air force only limits its size by the bounds of material reality. The best air force exists purely within the infinite multitudes of the mind.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2023 00:29
|
|
|
Strategic ambiguity wrt whether you have an air force at all
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2023 00:32
|
|
|
Slavvy posted:Strategic ambiguity wrt whether you have an air force at all Yes, Lord Buckethead's plan except with the military as a whole
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2023 00:35
|
|
|
FuzzySlippers posted:Gonna start making big waves among the thinktank crowd with my Air Force In Being concept. It's important you build the best air force you can but absolutely do not use it. Planes getting shot down by nasty SAMs only dilute the political impact of your air force. Then I'll move on to the Transcendent Air Force In Concept where the most perfect air force is one that doesn't fight, can't be destroyed, and can't be measured accurately. Actually building the air force only limits its size by the bounds of material reality. The best air force exists purely within the infinite multitudes of the mind. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmRpLLs7SNE
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2023 00:38
|
|
|
No, of course you can't see an air force - their stealth capabilities are just that good!
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2023 00:47
|
|
|
Seymour Skinner's air force
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2023 01:16
|
|
|
Regarde Aduck posted:Has there been evidence that the EU is still capable of making anything? I think Italy still makes luxury fashion. Spain and France still do good wines. Germany no idea, if it's not available from China then it's probably not worth buying. Um, luxury watches? War material good luck. Everything is bespoke, limited edition runs, basically unavailable in practical terms. More theoretical than actual. Edit - forgot to mention you go through all the rigmarole to actually get a euro platform and it's just generic anyway. Nothing class leading or special. DancingShade has issued a correction as of 02:28 on Nov 20, 2023 |
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2023 01:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 08:51 |
|
|
Alpha Centauri was such a cool loving game. There's never been another like it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2023 02:10
|
|