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Frodo went to Toll erresea I think Spelling
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Nov 12, 2023 00:49
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skasion posted:Tolkien never decided/purposely left it vague. There’s a random section in Morgoth’s Ring where Chris just tries to collate all the evidence about Frodo’s fate from his manuscripts and letters. It seems very clear Frodo would actually die at some point, but not clear on when or how. One bit says he would “sojourn…in Eressëa — then in Mandos?” before death. Which is kind of cool to imagine Frodo in Mandos halls chilling with Fëanor and the god of doom. Tolkien knowing the value of a good mystery is I think a big part of why his books have had such staying power.
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Nov 12, 2023 01:35
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skasion posted:Looking at Tale of Years it’s like 60 some years between when Frodo and Sam go oversea. Thats gonna be two old rear end men spending their remaining days in a nice seaside retirement home at that point. All sitting on a sofa under a nice puffy comforter that says "Just Some Knuckleheads From The Day!" in tengwar
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Nov 12, 2023 04:56
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The vibe I got is that Frodo and Bilbo would live out their natural lifespan and then pass in great peace and joy instead of being tormented in Middle-Earth. Possibly anyone who had the Ring would become some kind of miserable wraith eventually even if they might not have had the power to manipulate the world. I hope Bilbo had a year or two to have a look around at least.
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Nov 12, 2023 06:07
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Nessus posted:The vibe I got is that Frodo and Bilbo would live out their natural lifespan and then pass in great peace and joy instead of being tormented in Middle-Earth. Possibly anyone who had the Ring would become some kind of miserable wraith eventually even if they might not have had the power to manipulate the world. I don't think anyone holding the ring becomes a wraith. That would be the eventual result if they kept it and kept using it but even Gollum was able to resist that happening. Hobbits are very resistant to fading.
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Nov 12, 2023 19:46
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Frodo’s fading was from the cursed blade in him yeah
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Nov 12, 2023 19:51
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euphronius posted:Frodo’s fading was from the cursed blade in him yeah Well yeah but I do think if one kept the ring and used it indefinitely they would eventually fade also. Bilbo gets pretty hosed up just from having it and barely ever using it. The Wraith Blade is just another way of doing that and it speed runs that process I guess. It does make me wonder what would happen to an elf who uses the ring since they're already immortal and exist in both realms at once.
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Nov 12, 2023 21:14
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Bilbo used it all the time and was ok. So did gollum. It would have been like 1000 years as mentioned above about hobbits
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Nov 12, 2023 21:52
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euphronius posted:Bilbo used it all the time and was ok. Yeah it would take a very long time probably. Gollum and Bilbo also stopped using the ring as much after they started to feel the effects. Gollum in particular grew so tormented by it that he would just brood on it but wouldn't actually wear it that much because it made him tired.
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Nov 12, 2023 21:59
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Crosspost from somewhere over in PYF https://twitter.com/LegoRacers2/status/1669775883308269569
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Nov 12, 2023 22:03
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DACK FAYDEN posted:Crosspost from somewhere over in PYF that's just Tchaikovsky's Shadows of the Apt series (somewhat literally)
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Nov 12, 2023 22:03
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Ginette Reno posted:It does make me wonder what would happen to an elf who uses the ring since they're already immortal and exist in both realms at once. I think that's PART of the reason the elves can wear the 3 without fading (the other part being that Sauron didn't directly make them, but he obvs had some power over them still because he could see them when they put them on)
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Nov 13, 2023 06:37
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Nov 16, 2023 07:22
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Nov 16, 2023 15:14
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Ginette Reno posted:I don't think anyone holding the ring becomes a wraith. That would be the eventual result if they kept it and kept using it but even Gollum was able to resist that happening. Hobbits are very resistant to fading.
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Nov 16, 2023 15:48
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I feel like I've never really absorbed all the poo poo that they say in the Lorien chapters of fellowship in prior readings because wow that's some crazy stuff. I think the last time I read it I was more focused on the things it says about time. Also there's a short line about vapor filling the dimrill dale and sounds from deep underground that's a neat foreshadowing of Gandalf v Balrog.
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Nov 17, 2023 20:05
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Also: Wetwang.
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Nov 17, 2023 20:16
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That's Nindalf to you
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Nov 18, 2023 05:07
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Nov 20, 2023 12:22
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It'd be funny if all this time Tolkien's elves didn't actually have pointy ears and thst his "leaf-shaped" comment in his letters meant they were these jagged monstrosity ears like an oak leaf
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Nov 20, 2023 13:16
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 the pedant in me is compelled to point out that lamps and lampposts are specifically mentioned as existing in Minas Tirith. There’s even a Lampwright’s Street!I simply won’t stand for inaccurate memes!!
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Nov 20, 2023 14:30
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I'm sure there is a hilarious quote with Tolkien getting mad about Santa turning up in Narnia.
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Nov 20, 2023 14:50
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Arc Hammer posted:It'd be funny if all this time Tolkien's elves didn't actually have pointy ears and thst his "leaf-shaped" comment in his letters meant they were these jagged monstrosity ears like an oak leaf I wish he lived long enough to comment on the Rankin-Bass elves of Mirkwood
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Nov 20, 2023 14:55
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Arc Hammer posted:It'd be funny if all this time Tolkien's elves didn't actually have pointy ears and thst his "leaf-shaped" comment in his letters meant they were these jagged monstrosity ears like an oak leaf maple imo keep punching joe posted:I'm sure there is a hilarious quote with Tolkien getting mad about Santa turning up in Narnia. didn't he also write some santa story?
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Nov 20, 2023 14:58
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Also isn't Treebeard based on CS Lewis? Oh it seems that's based on another person's recollections. The mystery deepens...
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Nov 20, 2023 15:13
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Arc Hammer posted:It'd be funny if all this time Tolkien's elves didn't actually have pointy ears and thst his "leaf-shaped" comment in his letters meant they were these jagged monstrosity ears like an oak leaf Succulents. Chubby lil ears
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Nov 20, 2023 15:14
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Tolkien really does love them trees tho
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Nov 20, 2023 15:14
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keep punching joe posted:I'm sure there is a hilarious quote with Tolkien getting mad about Santa turning up in Narnia. You can use Santa as long as he is accompanied by North Polar Bear
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Nov 20, 2023 15:21
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"The electric street-lamp may indeed be ignored, simply because it is so insignificant and transient. Fairy-stories, at any rate, have many more permanent and fundamental things to talk about. Lightning, for example." From "On Fairy Stories". There is an apocryphal story that this inspired Tumnus's lamp in LWW as a dig, but I believe that was a gas lamp as described (could be wrong) so it doesn't quite line up.
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Nov 20, 2023 15:26
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Tolkien wrote and illustrated Father Christmas letters for his kids. There’s quite a number of them, he did it for like 20 years iirc and they have a whole loose “plot” with Father Christmas, the North Polar Bear, hostile goblins etc Note the date—this would be about a year after the completion of The Hobbit, but before its publication. Apparently early 30s Tolkien couldn’t resist the idea of a giant bear kicking goblin rear end AFAICT the lamp post thing is about Tolkien dismissing electric street lamps as transient and insignificant in “On Fairy-Stories”. this was written before the Narnia stories so it can’t be a swing at them. you could take the Narnia lamp as Lewis winking at his friend’s theories. Idk though, seems like a stretch. Tolkien isn’t complaining about people putting street lamps in fantasy novels when he says that. Moreover the lamp in LWW is not evidently an electric street lamp, having neither electricity nor street. Given its origins, I think I always assumed it had an actual flame in it. Tolkien did not like Narnia but he was pretty vague about why, at least in writing.
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Nov 20, 2023 15:33
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I can definitely imagine Lewis putting in the lamp specifically to be “transient and insignificant” but making it gas powered and sitting in the middle of a forest specifically to make it raise so many significant questions as to have to write the whole rest of the series around why it is there.
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Nov 20, 2023 15:39
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I've heard a bunch of "Tolkien didn't like famous popular thing X" (e.g. Disney, Narnia, Dune) - do we know what he did like? Besides medieval epic poems. Somewhat more obscure contemporary British authors?
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Nov 20, 2023 15:45
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Omnomnomnivore posted:I've heard a bunch of "Tolkien didn't like famous popular thing X" (e.g. Disney, Narnia, Dune) - do we know what he did like? Besides medieval epic poems. Somewhat more obscure contemporary British authors? William Morris and Dunsany. Past that a quick Google dig found this which was interesting: https://www.reddit.com/r/tolkienfans/s/U4N5nrcgsX
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Nov 20, 2023 15:52
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Data Graham posted:I can definitely imagine Lewis putting in the lamp specifically to be “transient and insignificant” but making it gas powered and sitting in the middle of a forest specifically to make it raise so many significant questions as to have to write the whole rest of the series around why it is there. Didn't he explicitly say he got the picture of the lamppost in his mind and wrote LWW from that?
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Nov 20, 2023 16:05
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Omnomnomnivore posted:I've heard a bunch of "Tolkien didn't like famous popular thing X" (e.g. Disney, Narnia, Dune) - do we know what he did like? Besides medieval epic poems. Somewhat more obscure contemporary British authors? On a quick google he allegedly was partial to some Doctor Who. quote:I have heard a rumor from an Oxford graduate that he liked Doctor Who.
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Nov 20, 2023 16:05
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Omnomnomnivore posted:I've heard a bunch of "Tolkien didn't like famous popular thing X" (e.g. Disney, Narnia, Dune) - do we know what he did like? Besides medieval epic poems. Somewhat more obscure contemporary British authors? William Morris and Lord Dunsany were his primary inspirations as you can clearly see reading them…Morris for his “barbarian” men (House of the Wolfings, Roots of the Mountains), Dunsany for his elves (King of Elfland’s Daughter). He liked Lewis’ space trilogy, especially Out of the Silent Planet, and when asked to be publisher’s reader, compared it to the David Lindsay book that obviously inspired it Letters 26 posted:I read ‘Voyage to Arcturus’ with avidity—the most comparable work, though it is both more powerful and more mythical [than Silent Planet] (and less rational, and also less of a story—no one could read it merely as a thriller and without interest in philosophy religion and morals.) In Letter 295 he mentions that he doesn’t like most contemporary sff books but goes on to cite exceptions—E. R. Eddison (“I have read all that [he] wrote, in spite of his peculiarly bad nomenclature and personal philosophy”—in one of the other letters he complains more about these points and says the only Eddison character he really liked was Gro, then goes on to call him the greatest fantasy author he’s read), Death of Grass (eco-apocalypse novel contemporary to LOTR), “the S.F. of Isaac Azimov” (sic), and Mary Renault’s Theseus novels. We also have his copy of a random American pulp fantasy anthology complete with a not-too-complementary notepaper: https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Critique_of_%22Distressing_Tale_of_Thangobrind_the_Jeweler%22 There’s also now a book about the topic! Tolkien’s Modern Reading by Holly Ordway. Haven’t read it. skasion fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Nov 20, 2023 |
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Nov 20, 2023 16:15
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Tolkien would have love Phillip Dick it’s too bad Oh well Tolkien did like though the pulp era of sci fi and fantasy which must have been aggravating
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Nov 20, 2023 17:25
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skasion posted:Tolkien wrote and illustrated Father Christmas letters for his kids. There’s quite a number of them, he did it for like 20 years iirc and they have a whole loose “plot” with Father Christmas, the North Polar Bear, hostile goblins etc I do think that if you read Tolkien's Introductionto the second edition of Lord of the Rings, you can see exactly what he dislikes about Narnia. He basically wrote a whole new introduction to his book for the sole purpose of making sure no one called Lord of the Rings an allegory. Narnia is allegory ++, most allegory per square inch in all of England. Tolkien may have had more issues than that with the series, but he was basically never going to like it in the first place, just because of the central literary device.
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Nov 20, 2023 17:28
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euphronius posted:Tolkien would have love Phillip Dick it’s too bad I wish he’d lived to read Riddley Walker and freak out about its idiom
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Nov 20, 2023 17:30
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sweet geek swag posted:I do think that if you read Tolkien's Introductionto the second edition of Lord of the Rings, you can see exactly what he dislikes about Narnia. He basically wrote a whole new introduction to his book for the sole purpose of making sure no one called Lord of the Rings an allegory. Narnia is allegory ++, most allegory per square inch in all of England. Tolkien may have had more issues than that with the series, but he was basically never going to like it in the first place, just because of the central literary device. Coughs in Bunyan e. The read the field experts I know have on Narnia is that it is not an allegory: Aslan does not "represent Jesus" - Aslan is literally The Christ manifest on a different world, and that Narnia is better read as something like multidimensional Christian science fiction: if we allow that there are multiple worlds in Creation, and allow this one to have a mythological and fantastic aspect to it, let us speculate on how the fall, incarnation, and salvation might look in such a place. CommonShore fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Nov 20, 2023 |
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Nov 20, 2023 17:34
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